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  #1  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:38 AM
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Default Duty to inform?

Anyone know what States you need to inform the police that you're carrying during a traffic stop or otherwise?
NY is not one of them.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:09 AM
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In Texas is it legally required but there is no "punishment" if you do not.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:50 AM
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Here in Ohio it is required...

Lawriter - ORC - 2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.
Duties of licensed individual
If a licensee is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as the result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose and if the licensee is transporting or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle at that time, the licensee shall promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the licensee has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun and that the licensee currently possesses or has a loaded handgun.
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Old 07-19-2011, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Photoman44 View Post
In Texas is it legally required but there is no "punishment" if you do not.
No criminal charges, I presume.
Is there a fine?
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Old 07-19-2011, 10:10 AM
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In OK, failure to notify is a misdemeanor, which can be anything from a ticket to confiscating the gun and a court date, depending on circumstances.

Some states, like Kansas, require you to produce a license if the officer asks. Since they always ask if you have any weapons, I just show the license up front if contacted.
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:35 PM
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Here is a map I keep around to help with answering emails.
Attached Thumbnails
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
No criminal charges, I presume.
Is there a fine?
No fine. I suppose they could arrest you but they know it's not going to go anywhere and would get them in hot water if they did.
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:18 PM
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Louisiana requires notification.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2011, 07:20 PM
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Here is a map I keep around to help with answering emails.

Michigan requires that you "immediately" inform if detained.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:12 PM
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The Free State of Georgia does not require notification.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:49 PM
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I'm glad I live in California since I'm the quiet type.
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Old 07-23-2011, 08:53 AM
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A recent CCW class I attended had a portion taught by a ME state trooper. We were told there is no obligation to inform a LEO that you are carrying.

The officer said, however, that it was prudent to do so. This is because it raises the officer's comfort level when one does so. He also said:

1. DO NOT immediately start reaching the the glove box, your purse or for your wallet. Plenty of time for that after the cop gets to the car.
2. Keep your hands in sight.
3. If at night, turn on the dome light in the car before the officer approaches, so that he/she can see what's in the car.
4. And last, "Officer I have a concealed firearm permit and have a pistol behind my right hip," or in the glove box, one's purse, etc.

The name of the game is survival, for the cop and for you.

Last edited by Murdock; 07-26-2011 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Fact correction
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:31 AM
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While it may not be required , I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated by the officer. Might even mean the difference between a warning , and a ticket.

I've often noticed the next question after "license , registration and proof of insurance , please?" is "are you carrying and drugs or guns?"

I always hand over my LTCF along with my D/L reg & ins cards when I'm carrying and inform the officer that I'm carrying legal.

Most cops seem to be put at ease by yer honesty.
Others seem to go into tactical mode.
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post
Most cops seem to be put at ease by yer honesty.
Others seem to go into tactical mode.
I don't see any reason to gamble. If the cop doesn't ask he doesn't care. He's just writing you a ticket and you can go on your way.
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Old 07-23-2011, 10:20 AM
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There is no duty to inform here in Missouri. The following is the general recommendation I give my students for handling a traffic stop. Notice that I neither advocate that they arbitrarily inform, or that they arbitrarily do not inform. Only they can make that decision as they deem appropriate at that moment:

If or when you are stopped, you should pull over as far as you can to the side of the road, turn your radio off, turn the vehicle off, place both hands on the steering wheel where the officer can see them, and await instructions from the officer. If it is dark outside, turn your dome light on so the officer can see into the vehicle as he or she approaches. The time to be fidgeting around looking for your license or insurance card is NOT while you are waiting for the officer to approach your vehicle. Once the officer makes contact with you, he or she will then let you know how they want you to proceed. Remember to avoid making statements that could seem potentially threatening like “I HAVE A GUN”, or making a move to reach for a wallet or other papers that happens to be near where you are carrying your firearm. Remember to be courteous and polite. Like you, the police officer just wants to go home safe at the end of the day.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:10 PM
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Tennessee = No Required Notification
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Tennessee = No Required Notification
Correct, but I travel to other states so I got in the habit; if I am stopped I show the officer my carry permit along with my DL. If it is dark I do like cschoff and turn on the dome light and put both hands on the steering wheel. I don't have anything to hide and I don't want to make the officer nervous. If nothing else maybe it prevents me from being bright lighted with one of those gazillion candlepower lights.

I also don't get rude with the officer even if I think he is wrong. Speaking as a former officer I know there is no telling what he may of just dealt with. If i can can show common courtesy maybe it will ease things for both of us.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NKJ nut View Post
Correct, but I travel to other states so I got in the habit; if I am stopped I show the officer my carry permit along with my DL. If it is dark I do like cschoff and turn on the dome light and put both hands on the steering wheel. I don't have anything to hide and I don't want to make the officer nervous. If nothing else maybe it prevents me from being bright lighted with one of those gazillion candlepower lights.

I also don't get rude with the officer even if I think he is wrong. Speaking as a former officer I know there is no telling what he may of just dealt with. If i can can show common courtesy maybe it will ease things for both of us.
I figure the loose rounds and empty brass rolling out onto the ground when I open the door of my pickup is notification enough.

I don't do the 10/2 steering wheel thing, but I hand over both my DL and HCP at the same time. I've only been pulled over once in Tennessee and the cop never mentioned a thing about it.

Absolutely, I think being polite is key to a less than eventful stop. If the cop is being polite, be polite in return. If the cop is being a jerk, be polite in return. In all other circumstances, be polite.

My policy is to comply with all orders and deny requests--

May I search you car? = No sir, you do not have my permission.

Get out of the car now I am going to search this vehicle = Yes sir.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 07-23-2011 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:35 PM
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Youse guys must look shady , I haven't been stopped in over 20 years. ................................................................... Then again, I never leave my block
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:42 PM
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What about carrying per LEOSA, I feel like a jerk producing my retired ID. In years past I carrried a pistol in the glove compartment, when asked or the registration I then informed the officer that I have a gun in the glove compartment with the registration. Twice this has happened, twice they asked for a permit and I produced my retired Id card. Twice I didn't get a ticket I deserved. That isnt right, I don't mind telling the officer I have a gun, but I don't want any special treatment.
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Old 07-23-2011, 08:06 PM
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What about carrying per LEOSA, I feel like a jerk producing my retired ID. In years past I carrried a pistol in the glove compartment, when asked or the registration I then informed the officer that I have a gun in the glove compartment with the registration. Twice this has happened, twice they asked for a permit and I produced my retired Id card. Twice I didn't get a ticket I deserved. That isnt right, I don't mind telling the officer I have a gun, but I don't want any special treatment.
Why do you feel like a jerk? I always wanted to know who I was talking to after stopping someone when I worked patrol. My Dept also REQUIRES Officers to ID themselves to another agency when stopped. Common sense. If the copper respects your retired status enough to cut you a break, enjoy it. You've earned it; that how most coppers I know feel about retired guys. You COULD have demanded a supervisor and a cite if it bothered you that much.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:16 AM
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In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.
Not cool at all.
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Old 07-24-2011, 08:01 AM
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Add North Carolina to the list of states that DO require notification.

If you are an armed criminal, however, you are NOT required to notify.
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Old 07-24-2011, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.
This is a common outcome of informing. A friend of mine has a similar story. I don't know why people continue to recommend the practice where it isn't required by bad law. But people also don't think you should be quiet when a officer starts questioning you about a crime you may or may not have committed. People just like to give bad advice.
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee in Quartzsite View Post
In Arizona we are not required to inform an Officer when stopped for a traffic violation unless he asks.

My wife was stopped a few months ago for a minor infraction and as a courtesy to the Officer she volunteered the information that she had a CCW and was carrying. He went from being a semi-nice guy to accusing her of putting him in danger by carrying a gun. He retrieved her M&P from her purse, cleared the chamber and emptied the magazine and took everything to his car where he ran her information and the serial number on her gun. When he returned the cartridges were in a small plastic bag. He had her open the trunk and placed everything in the trunk and told her not to open it until she got home. From now on we both will abide by Arizona law and not volunteer any information about carrying a gun unless specifically asked by the Officer. He treated her like very badly and her attitude towards Police Officers took a serious downturn.
I have a friend who had his 1911 seized on the side of the road after he voluntarily informed. The LEO, who had obviously never handled a cocked and locked 1911 before, muzzled himself, my friend, and numerous passing motorists as he fumbled around trying to figure out how to "make the gun safe". Finally, after my friend more or less got rude with him for handling the gun so unsafe, the officer allowed my friend to walk him through the unloading procedure, step by step.

I'm not sure how ANYONE could think that a loaded gun is somehow more safe being handled on the side of the road, than it is left in it's holster.
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Old 07-24-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
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I have a friend who had his 1911 seized on the side of the road after he voluntarily informed. The LEO, who had obviously never handled a cocked and locked 1911 before, muzzled himself, my friend, and numerous passing motorists as he fumbled around trying to figure out how to "make the gun safe". Finally, after my friend more or less got rude with him for handling the gun so unsafe, the officer allowed my friend to walk him through the unloading procedure, step by step.

I'm not sure how ANYONE could think that a loaded gun is somehow more safe being handled on the side of the road, than it is left in it's holster.
I think that's a valid point. There was a vid in the Lounge of a LEO in Oceanside trying to figure out how to check a pistol to see if it is loaded while the muzzle is pointing at passing auto traffic.
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Old 07-24-2011, 12:38 PM
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Murdock, You say the map is wrong and then you say in ME you don't have to inform but a state trooper said you should. Would you please point out what on my map is wrong. Thank you and Stay Safe,
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:03 PM
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I don't know each state's requirements. I could find out by going to the State website and reading their law., or I could be safe, hand the Officer my D.L. and my CHL at the same time, and tell him I was armed. That would eliminate any breaking of any law. As a retired cop, I always appreciated citizens who told me they were armed. That told me that they posed no threat to me, in 99.9% of the times they told me. I dont mind telling any cop I come into contact with when the contact is official. If we just are chatting and saying"hello, nice day, its hot today," I do not tell them I am armed. its not an official contact.
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Old 07-24-2011, 08:28 PM
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This is a common outcome of informing. A friend of mine has a similar story. I don't know why people continue to recommend the practice where it isn't required by bad law. But people also don't think you should be quiet when a officer starts questioning you about a crime you may or may not have committed. People just like to give bad advice.
Common? Sounds like an opinion. How "common" is it?
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Old 07-24-2011, 08:59 PM
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Add Alabama to the inform list. Have to tell when stopped by police of trooper. Just hand permit over with DL and insurance card, keep hands where they can see. At night turn on interior light.

Oh, hide cooler before they see it. Officer got more upset about my water cooler that gun. Had to search vehicle only to find 2 bottles of cold water inside cooler. Gave him one before he left. Next time I'll have it open.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:03 AM
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Common? Sounds like an opinion. How "common" is it?
Bob
When it happens to people you personally know, then you go on the internet and a bunch of people state that it's happened to them, and then the LEOs comes on and tell that that's what they do; however common that is, it's that common.

It's not common in my case because me getting pulled over is uncommon, like 14 years ago. And second, you won't hear me blurting out "I got a gun" while the officer is approaching.

Last edited by hatt; 07-25-2011 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:15 AM
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"A bunch of people on the Internet"...who can argue with that?
Bob
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:23 AM
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"A bunch of people on the Internet"...who can argue with that?
Bob
Yeah, I guess if you discount everyone's stories. It never happens. Carry on. I guess you're from the "if I didn't see it with my own eyes it didn't happen" crowd.

Last edited by hatt; 07-25-2011 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:48 AM
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"A bunch of people on the Internet"...who can argue with that?
Bob
Are you trying to claim it doesn't happen?
How many times constitutes "too many"?
Do you have your head in the sand?

There are plenty of documented cases.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:38 AM
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"Documented"...let's have a few. It's "common"...must be HUNDREDS of cops treating CCW citizens awfully. Can't keep up with all of them. I just read a thread here regarding a citizen and his wife being treated with respect (in Ohio) twice. And there's a YouTube video of a policeman treating ANOTHER citizen well in CA...I guess that would be considered "common", too. Head in the sand? I doubt it; I was a cop for 24 years; I saw disrespect and respectful treatment, depending on the person being talked to. Anecdotal stories mean nothing; I would imagine that there were good reasons why citizens were treated rudely by cops. If not, the internal affairs people will deal with it if there's something amiss. That's my experience. Most departments (especially the big ones) are eager now to take complaints against their officers. That's reality, not "common" because someone on the internet said so. What I see here (on this thread) is a good bit of cop-bashing. I realize most people don't like the police; I was told in the Academy that if I wanted to be loved, join the fire dept. This is a good place to get in the anti-police sentment; very safe hiding behind the computer screen. Another forum engaged in this and several threads were locked because the anti-police, black helicopter crowd came out of the woodwork. It'll probably happen here, too. Too bad; this is a GREAT forum. The people I see here bashing cops aren't seen too much commenting on revolvers or S&W autos; I wonder why? My only comment now is that I worked 24 years as a cop; I don't appreciate the uninformed and frankly, stupid comments from people who haven't been there or done that. I saw LOTS of folks shot, beaten and otherwise rudely treated in 24 years, most all of them deserved it. Some, that didn't, made complaints and sometimes got satisfaction. That's the system; deal with it. Have YOU been treated incorrectly in a traffic stop or police contact when you informed the Officer? Let's hear it. We'll all comment and dispense advice. Otherwise, it's anecdotal and a non-issue.
Bob

Last edited by OIF2; 07-25-2011 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
I would imagine that there were good reasons why citizens were treated rudely by cops. If not, the internal affairs people will deal with it if there's something amiss. That's my experience. Most departments (especially the big ones) are eager now to take complaints against their officers.
Sorry, that's just as unsupportable as "ALL cops are bad and are NEVER punished for it."

I can rattle off example after example of police who not only "disrespected" citizens, but committed serious crimes, up to and including murder, and were either never punished, were punished in no meaningful way, or were ONLY punished when the media got hold of the story (especially video) and the coverup collapsed under its own weight.

Can you tell me what "internal affairs" did in the following cases?

Kathryn Johnston in Atlanta
"SOS" home invasion ring in Chicago
Danziger bridge (and other) murders in New Orleans

Bad cops [naturally] tend to gravitate toward places where they're ALLOWED to be bad. Strangely, in those sorts of places, "internal affairs", to paraphrase Richard M. Daley, have a tendency to not "see nuttin'".

If we had to rely upon the Atlanta PD "internal affairs" for the TRUTH, people would still be running around claiming that Kathryn Johnston was a "drug dealer" and that she "shot some cops"... of course I'm sure that there ARE still people running around saying that... and some of them, even though they KNOW the truth.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:58 AM
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You do have your head in the sand.

I am not a cop basher, and I defy you to point out where I have done so. I have posted accounts of good encounters with officers that involve my family.

I could post a news account for every day of the week that documented police misconduct of some kind. I don't do that, because I think that about 90% of officers are dedicated individuals who try to do a good job within the bounds of policy and the law.

I was a public school teacher for 24 years. There has been no more maligned group then ps teachers over the last ten or 15 years. I believe that the percentage of good teachers to bad is about the same as good cops to bad. I don't deny, though, that there are some rotten individuals that have no business in the profession.

You, Sir, are way off base. Check my posts if you think I don't take part in the other discussions here. Don't dismiss what has been a pretty civil discussion to this point as "cop bashing," because I have not seen that intent.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:35 AM
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...still waiting for all those "documented" cases...I thought we were talking about being subjected to rudeness regarding CCW permits. Don't know about the other stuff you mentioned, but the cops in New Orleans are being tried for murder.
You're right about good vs bad in each vocation. I've run into some pretty stupid teachers, as well as some really bad cops. Got a solution? As far as "cop-bashing", the comment on "head in the sand" will do...I gave you my empirical data, Teach. It was the same as yours- no facts, numbers, etc. except what I know from 24 years as a cop. Colored by tunnel vision, prejudice and job bias, like yours. Discussions are ALWAYS civil until something you don't like is mentioned by someone you disagree with. Fire away, though; I've been shot at before (don't think he had a CCW). Lighten up; I'd still buy you a Coke after a range session. I'm retired now anyway; haven't beaten up some poor citizen on his way to church in awhile.
Bob
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:56 AM
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For starters, go to youtube and search "Glynn County police pulls gun for no reason." The mods probably won't allow a direct link because of the language the officers use when abusing the legal ccw citizen. One of them also uses a fine "gangsta" hold to point his weapon at the driver as he tells him "get out of the truck or I'll blow your . . . . head off"

There is a website called georgia packing dot org. Go to that site and find the forum for LEO Encounters. There are some good reports (including mine) and some bad reports. Just about all the encounters include facts, dates, times, officers' names, etc, that are easily verified. There is one that was posted last week where the person being hassled for legal OC got his phone's recorder turned on. Pretty interesting stuff.

Maybe you will choose to discount all the bad ones as "internet rumors." That is your right, because anyone can get on the internet behind the screen, so to speak, and claim anything, can't they?

Some guy could even claim to be a retired officer with 24 years, couldn't he? I choose to accept you at your word, though.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:00 AM
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How about the Georgia Court of Appeals? Is that enough documentation for you?

Caselaw on GeorgiaPacking.org, THE STATE v. JONES, 289 Ga. App. 176 (2008)
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OIF2 View Post
...still waiting for all those "documented" cases...I thought we were talking about being subjected to rudeness regarding CCW permits. Don't know about the other stuff you mentioned, but the cops in New Orleans are being tried for murder.
And it was NOPD "internal affairs" that dealt with the problem, right? Not so much... and not so much in any of the other incidents I listed.

If Atlanta PD "internal affairs" didn't deal with a home invasion, murder, and coverup by its own officers, do you REALLY think they're on top of much lesser offenses?

If NOPD "internal affairs" didn't deal with a SERIES of murders and a coverup by its own officers, do you REALLY think they're on top of "rudeness regarding CCW permits"?
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:35 AM
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What about carrying per LEOSA, I feel like a jerk producing my retired ID. In years past I carrried a pistol in the glove compartment, when asked or the registration I then informed the officer that I have a gun in the glove compartment with the registration. Twice this has happened, twice they asked for a permit and I produced my retired Id card. Twice I didn't get a ticket I deserved. That isnt right, I don't mind telling the officer I have a gun, but I don't want any special treatment.
Great point. I get stopped and I hand over my DL.....I too dont like "Flashing the tin." It's disrespectful, and arrogant. Under LEOSA I do not belive there is any requirement to notify. That I believe would be up to an individual state. There may be some law requiring notification to notify if armed, but then that presents all kind of 5th Ammendment issues unless it specifically addresses LEOSA conduct.......states that make it illegal to transport firearms loaded in cars would now be saying, "Oh yeah Officer Friendly lock me up I have a gun." Before I had a permit and was carrying under LEOSA, I got pulled over. The gun was in the glove box next to my vehicle registration. I told the officer I had a firearm in the glove box before I put my hand in there to retrieve it and he asked why, " I told him I was retired and was carried the gun under LEOSA. We spent the next five minutes telling each other war stories.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:36 AM
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I submit that these claims are just as valid as any other internet claim where people don't actually know each other--such as yours and mine.

When you read this one, remember, there is no duty to inform in GA and there never has been. That's a factor in the Glynn County video, too.

I recently got pulled over for speeding (52 in a 35mph zone) in Dunwoody, GA. The officer asked that I provide my driver's license after giving me a sermon for the reason he was pulling me over. Anyway, upon pulling out my DL out of my wallet he noticed that I had a concealed weapons permit (which I keep behind my license in the see-through pocket of my wallet).

He then asked me if I had a gun in the car which I said yes. He asked if it was load which I said yes (stupid question...right?). He then asked where I had it, which I responded in the glove compartment. At this point, he asked that I unlock my passenger side door and put my hands on the steering wheel. He walked around the back of my car, opened the passenger side door, and retrieved my gun (in a holster).

When he came back to my car with citation in hand, he then gave me yet another sermon...suggesting that I volunteer this information next time. Meaning, that I tell him or any other officer that I have a weapon in the car should I ever get pulled over again. He handed me the citation, my weapon, and then the ammo.

Here's my confusion...was this guy paranoid or am I being super sensitive? He was professional at all times; therefore, I’m not complaining on that front. However, I've been a concealed weapon holder for over 22 years now and I've NEVER had any police officer ask me if I had a weapon in the car when getting pulled over for a moving violation. I told the offer that I disagreed with him. I told him that I was not a felon, that I was not committing a felony, and that I was not reaching for the glove compartment when producing what he asked for which was my driver’s license. I would agree with this officer's suggestion should I have been attempting to reach for my wallet and the wallet would have beem in the glove compartment. That was not the case here. I produced my license by reaching into my pocket.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:38 AM
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Not cool at all.
Ohio?????????
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:40 AM
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Here is another one: of course, some people will surely dismiss them all as internet rumor.

Tonight I was driving my car down Chastain Lakes Rd in Kennesaw at 1am. I just drove past the wal-mart when I see another car approaching. I am going slightly above the speed limit, but I haven't seen a car since I exited 575. As I passed the car I realized it was Cobb Co. PD and I decreased my speed slightly to speed limit. I watched my mirrors and saw him loop around. He sped up on me and I put on my signal before his lights even went on. Sure enough BLUE LIGHTS. Since I work in Buckhead, handle large sums of money and leave at 1am, I carry my main, and a back-up because you never know.
He approaches my car and the dialog begins
Cop 1: "Do you know why I pulled you over?"
Me: Please tell me, but my guess is speeding.
C1: Do you know the speed limit on Chastain Rd?(We were on Chastain Lakes...)
Me:45
C1: I clocked you going 68.
Me: Really? I'm sure I wasn't going that fast.
C1: I need your license.
Me: Sure thing.(I hand him my license and GFL)
C1: Do you have a gun?
Me: I have 2, one on my hip. Backup on my ankle.(My hands have not left my steering wheel except to give him my license. He runs my permit, comes back valid)
C1: Why do you have 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C1: Ok, keep your hands visible, I'm going to ask you to step out of the car.
Me: ok(I wait for him to open the door)
C1: how do you open your door?
Me: Pull the handle...
C1: Ok put you hands on your head and face away from me.(At this point his gun is drawn and pointed at my head). Put you hands behind your back, if you move you will have a bullet in you.(I really don't know what to do. I wait for him to grab my hands because I really don't want to get shot.)
He disarms me and I hear sirens approaching.
Me: Don't tell me those sirens are for me.
C1: They are.
Meon't you think that's a little much. My guns are already in the grass, and I'm handcuffed.
C1: I have 1 gun, you had 2. I'm just trying to go home tonight.
Me: Understandable, but I'm already disarmed.
C2: Why do you have all these guns?
Me: I work in Buckhead, late at night.
C2: So, why do you need a gun.
Me: Have you ever been to buckhead at night? There are break-ins, violence... I want to stay alive.
C2: Why do you need 2?
Me: Because you never know what might happen.
C3: I get it, thank you.
C2: Have you ever been a cop?
Me:No
C2: Have you ever worked security?
Me: Yes
C2: So you were a security guard.
Me: No, but I work security at my restaurant, I am the line. I do everything, security is just one part of my job.
C2: So you haven't worked security.
Me: If you are asking if I have worn a shirt that says Security, my answer is no. If you are asking if I have worked security, without a shirt, my answer is yes.
C2: You don't know anything. Have you ever security in your job description?
Me: Yes. Security is in my job description, just like ordering food, and writing the schedule. I do everything.
C2: Cops get shot by permit holders everyday.
Me:**Shaking my head, and turning my head away from him and to the ground. I don't answer his questions anymore.**
C1: Can I search your bag?
Me: I think it is unnecessary, but if it will let me leave earlier then yes.
C1: So, is that a yes?
Me: Yes
C1: What's this?(20 ft away, in the dark)
Me: I have no idea, my vision is not that good.
C1: It says Amphetamines.
Me: That is my prescription, for ADHD, with my name on the bottle.
C3: Ok. Got it. I like what you are doing. I get it.
Me: Thanks, this is ridiculous.
C3: I know, we are almost done.
Me: Thank you.
C1: Ok, I'm going to put your firearms in the trunk and the ammo in the front seat. Get to where you are going. If you stop to get your guns out of your trunk, you will be pulled over again and arrested. I'm going to let you off with a verbal warning. Drive safe.

My thoughts:
1) I showed him my valid permit without asking. I don't have to declare, yet I did.
2) I understand safety, but once I'm disarmed, was everything else necessary?
3) He searched my car without asking. He only asked about my bag.
4) I had a gun pointed at my face for following the law, and being honest with the officer.
5) Not once was I a threat. I was calm, never quick movements.
6) How many times were my rights violated tonight? My count is 4.
7) I want to thank the third cop for not being a complete douche. The other 2, not so much.
8) I have no idea any of their badge numbers, names, or anything else. I just wanted to go to bed.

Questions:
Should I file a complaint with cobb county?
Am I unreasonable in thinking this was ridiculous?
Why does the second cop have a badge and a gun? He was a complete moron. I don't feel safe with him protecting me.

Thank you all for letting me vent. This was insane.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:04 AM
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did you hear about the guy who gets pulled over for speeding. the officer asks for his DL, registration and insurance card....the driver hands him all three plus his CWP.....seeing the CWP the officer asks him if he has a firearm , the driver says yes, I have a S&W revolver on my waist, a semi auto on my ankle, a Walther under the seat.... a Glock in the glove compartment, two shotguns and a rifle in the trunk.....the officer steps back and asks..."geez buddy, what are you afraid of ?"
the driver replies.....
"absolutely nothing"
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:32 AM
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OK, "REDLEVEL", like I said, let the bashing begin...I'm sorry; it all my fault. I'm here for you though; vent on, if it makes you feel better to flame on a retired copper. Again, I'll ask for you to give us a solution here. Haven't heard one yet. I don't see what the cops did wrong on the long-winded Chastain Lakes encounter...the cop's perception was that something was wrong, so he called for another unit. Again, he didn't know you (I'm assuming it was you), and didn't know you were a "good guy". CCWs mean absolutely nothing when conducting a stop; YOU know you're OK; the cop doesn't. I can't peer into the thinking of the policeman who stopped you; only he knows what bothered him. There's no "right way" to handle this. Sounds like you were on your way, with your gun, and you were treated (in your own words) "professionally". Feel better? Probably not. Stop by for a hug sometime if you need to.
Bob

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Old 07-25-2011, 11:46 AM
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CCWs mean absolutely nothing when conducting a stop; YOU know you're OK; the cop doesn't.
So then similarly, wouldn't it follow that badges mean absolutely nothing when you're BEING stopped?

When I'm stopped by a cop, I may or may not have ANY idea why. I certainly have NO idea IN THE WORLD who he is, or what his record is. If the cop shouldn't trust somebody who's passed a background investigation to get a CHL, there's certainly no reason for me to trust a cop who's passed a background examination to get a badge. He could be a good guy or he could be Justin Volpe. Therefore, I shouldn't talk to him in any way not specifically mandated by law, right? And consenting to any search would be utterly out of the question, right?

Every argument that you can make for why a cop shouldn't trust a citizen with a CHL during a stop is 100% equally applicable to why a citizen with a CHL shouldn't trust a cop during a stop.
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Old 07-25-2011, 12:00 PM
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This is getting a little heavy...think some humor is in order. Posted this in another Thread, but in case you haven't seen it:

Mental Stimulation: Laugh of The day- I am sorry officer
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