A 5.2% drop in crimes committed in bars and restaurants after one year of permitting CCW in said locations. This was in an 8/16/11 article that can be found on line easy enough if you want the whole story. According to the article other states have shown similar results after easing CCW restrictions. Of course there could be other factors leading to the reduction in crime. Maybe with the rapidly improving economy less people are feeling the desperation that would drive them to crime.

Well this can't possibly be. I seen the Westerns. With my own eyes. You mix saloons and guns you're going to get shootouts.
Probably just too early for all the additional bar murder stats to come in.

I think this mainly started because you weren't allowed to carry in any restaurant that served alcohol. You couldnt even eat in an Applebee's (don't know why you would) if you carried. I think most people who carry are smart enough to stay away from trouble.

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Fidelis Ad Mortem

They're not busting folks for gun violations in restaurants and bars anymore.

That alone would reduce the crime rate somewhat.

What rapidly improving economy?

Facially true, but your well intended thought doesn't apply in this case.

I just read the story. Only major crimes (assault, homicide, and the like) were considered. Robbery was not included because robbery tends to be a premeditated crime (before they arrived at the bar/restaurants they likely already planned to rob someone).

So, there was a 5.2% decline in major crimes at bars and restaurants since the change in the law.

Not that I think this one year drop in major crime proves anything substantial yet, only that it indicates that the predictions of the opponents to the change in the concealed carry law (It’ll be like the Old West. There’ll be drunken shootouts in the bars if we allow people with CHL’s to carry in bars!) have so far fallen flat.

Take care,

Hey, a win's a win. I ain't complainin'.

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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

Crime goes in cycles. Bank robbery may be the current trend this year and not have one at all next year.

Sorry but I am against having guns in bars. Many states have laws saying the concealed permit is not valid when the BAC reaches a certain level (way below what it takes to get a DUI).

Alcohol alters the mind and effects rational thought processes. Two drinks and a person has no business with a gun. People do not stop at a bar for two drinks.

If a person wants to eat in a portion of a restaurant that has a bar, then great and they should be allowed to carry. If they are going out drinking, they do not need to carry.

Either way, crime is not going to be down because people are allowed to carry in bars. The amount of crime taking place in bars is not going to amount to even a blimp on the crime radar screen.

As a Va. resident, I was very glad when this stupid restriction was eliminated. If somebody wants to get drunk while carrying a gun, they don't need a permit to do it and that dumb law wouldn't stop it. Plus, the "guns in bars" phrase is a loaded and misleading line. It emplies one wanting to sit in some dive with a bunch of other drunks getting loaded and starting fights. The real issue was the many responsible permit holders who faced criminal charges if they entered a restaurant that served any kind of alcohol. The choice then becomes to leave it at home or even worse, leave it in the car...Again, all the media and the anti-firearms types screamed that it would result in a blood bath as all the legally armed drunks started shooting up the places while nice families tried to enjoy dinner. The former governor(lower case) vetoed the change when the General Assembly passed it and said that a family should be able to go have a pizza without guns around...So, I guess when he was the gov, he took the family out for pizza and told his state trooper security people to leave their guns in the car?...Again, the predictions were wrong. Big surprise...The same thing has been predicted everytime "shall issue" permits have been enacted...Now, if I want to have dinner somewhere other than a fast food place and not have to deal with the stress of that useless restriction, I can.

The issue of carrying whilst drinking alcohol has been visited several times.

Last (?) time I was chastised after admitting I DO have a beer or two or three whilst CCW...regularly.

It is not illegal where I live, and I don't act any differently whatsoever when consuming alcohol.

Responsible gun carriers will act responsibly under any circumstances.

Be safe.

Funny how just about EVERY rationalization of gun laws produces hysterical predictions of "blood in the streets"... but no actual blood.

The same people here who were shrieking incoherently about our recently passed restaurant bill were EXACTLY the same ones who'd previously shrieked incoherently about shall issue CCW.

The good news is that these ninnies have cried wolf SO much that nobody's listening any more.

People don’t like to have their preconceived notions challenged by facts.

That's what makes doing it SO enjoyable!

Oldman45, what I'm about to say I've written in a friendly state of mind, text lacks tone of voice. I don't want to be rude, or start an argument, but I must react to three statements made in your post (there was much more to his post, I just selected three direct quotes).

In response to the first: to each their own, but I'm glad that in my state we are allowed to. Carrying in a bar, and DRINKING while carrying in a bar are two very different things.

In response to the second of your statements that I've selected, People may stop into a bar for many reasons, I happen to be a musician that performs in 'bars'. I do my drinking at home or at friends' private property when I want to drink; it's cheaper and safer than at a bar. I perform at bars quite often though, and I help organize shows at bars even more often. Nine times out of ten I won't drink when going to a 'bar' for music-related reasons. I'd like to drink, but the main reason I don't drink when performing or overseeing a show is so that I can carry my gun. Call me superstitious, but I figure the one time I don't carry might just be the one time I wish I had. I've carried for years without incident, but I'm not a fan of Murphy's Law.

Finally, to respond to the third of your statements that I've decided to harp on: It's not about affecting statistics, it's about not becoming a statistic. I think most folks carry a gun because of all the awful things that have happened, that no one could have ever predicted. Life is chaotic, if you have to pull your gun, I would hope it's not your average 'bar fight.' Maybe tomorrow or a year from now some very mentally-sick person chooses a bar in an attempt to hurt as many potentially defenseless people as possible before killing himself, If that ever happened, i'd hope a responsible concealed-carrier would be there to bring the situation to a minimal-harm outcome, probably saving lives.


just had to add my perspective to some statements i don't agree with, but I am glad we live in a country where we are all free to believe what we want, including you!

Concealed carry was not permitted in restaurants that serve alcohol. Open carry was just fine under Section 13 of the Virginia constitution.