My main squeeze is a snub-nosed M64. I practice weekly at 3 yards, 5 yards and 7 yards. On occasion I'll run the target out to 10 yards but really don't see any practical application in practicing shooting at a bad guy from 50 or 75 feet. Besides, my accuracy really drops at anything beyond 20-25 feet and I have a feeling that the sight radius on a 1-7/8" barrel is a bit short for bullseye shooting anyway.

Practice consists of (1) set target at 7 yards, draw from my holster and empty the cylinder as fast as I can keeping the muzzle in-line. This is done cold because in the event of a real-world event I will have no time to "warm up", much less ask the perp to kindly place this orange sticky on his chest.
(2) After I finish cursing my poor performance on (1), I slowly and methodically go through a number of drills at varying distances cited above. Finally, after about a half hour of solid practice, I repeat (1) with much better results.

Am I practicing at the correct distances? Any range drill tips you find helpful?

Thank you for your consideration.

~ Alan

Alan, Your practice sounds very much like mine. I also practice while moving, left and right, walking away from the target and towards it. Training decades ago also did not include very close shooting and I've added that to my routine. Close as in reaching distance. I also practice dropping to one knee and firing, as well as taking cover behind a door or car fender. I think what all this comes down to is imagining various likely situations you're apt to encounter and training for that possibility. Breaks up the routine and makes practice even more challenging.

I do nearly all my shooting inside 15 feet, and most of that inside 8-10 feet. I do quite a bit at 3 feet. Most of this is one-handed point shooting, though I always try to get at least a rough visual alignment. I will occasionally shoot out to 30 feet, but mostly because I feel it's good for maintaining basic marksmanship skills.

Unfortunately my range doesn't allow movement, so I rely on dry-fire practice drills for that. I also practice shooting from awkward positions this way.

One thing that I try to do every time, regardless of training scenario, is to focus on smooth, efficient movement. I will speed things up, but if smoothness and/or accuracy starts getting sacrificed I slow it down a bit. And by accuracy I mean consistent hits in vital areas, not tiny groups.

The indoor range I use frequently is a 50-foot facility. I do most of my practice shooting at 50 feet, figuring that if I can shoot consistently at 50 feet anything less is always going to be easier.

During my law enforcement career we qualified at ranges up to 50 yards with handgun, off-hand and barricade positions. Timed drills provided less time for shorter ranges, reloading drills as part of the timed drills, multiple targets at various ranges, etc. The very short range exercises (3 and 5 yards) were point-shooting exercises rather than aimed fire, frequently with multiple targets.

Went through a couple of "street survival" courses (drop, roll, draw, shoot during traffic stops and similar exercises), and those were real eye-openers for some of us that thought we were pretty good with handguns. Learned a little bit about shooting through auto bodies and glass, too.

When I started attending the Farnum courses, with multiple "good-guy" and "bad guy" targets, targets programmed to take varying numbers of multiple hits before falling, and moving targets at various ranges, angles, and speeds, I started learning how little I knew.

All practice is good practice. Varying the course every time, adding in dummy cartridges and other malfunction drills, etc, all have a place in training.

I've been retired over 15 years now and still shoot monthly or more to maintain reasonable proficiency. Multiple knee operations and a hernia have limited me to more of a "stand and deliver" practice regimen, knowing that I can't run for **** anymore, can't drop & roll very well, etc. Bifocals don't help much either, but I shoot with them on because I usually wear them.

Keep practicing and keep it as realistic as possible.

With my snubnose J-frames I usually practice from three feet to 25 yards. Snubnoses will print good groups a lot farther than people usually think.

I also shoot out to 50 or 60 yards occasionally. At 50 yards most snubs will keep all rounds on a silhouette target. Once I got a handsize group of five shots DA at 50 yards. That day I did better DA than shooting SA at that range. (It was a fun day).

My son and I tried my M15 two-inch at 100 yards last year. He hit the silhouette and I missed high and right by four inches. We were holding on the head and expecting the shots would drop into the chest area.

Most self-defense incidents are at close range, but it has occurred to me that Mr. Murphy could have other plans.

Your distances sound just right to me. But....consider this. years ago when we did our semi annual qual, we would go to the 3 yard line and fire six rounds. We carried revolvers back them. What did we find? Well in actual confrontations our guys would empty their guns. We had one shoot out with armed robbers, the cop emptied his gun from about 10 feet, missed and was trying to reload while the bad guy was pumping rounds at him. The cop go so nervous (wouldnt you) and dropped his reloads in a mud puddle. Lucky for him, his partner ended the gun fight with one well placed shot.

After that, we trained, double tap...assess the threat and one to the head if necessary. Moving is key, dont stand still.. Hard to do at indoor public ranges...but if you can shoot outside, move left, move right, move, move, move...but I do not suggest empty as fast as you can or you will have a very expensive club in your hand.

Great stuff, folks. And thanks!

Your distances are good. To verify, measure some distances inside your home, such as couch to door, from the bed to the door, etc. Unless you live in a very large home, you will find your distsnces are right on.

Continue to train at the range at those distances. However, replace your targets with 8" paper plates. Train to keep all of shots inside the plates. If you can do that, use 6" plates. This will help focus your point of aim.

The other thing you can do to help train for defensive scenarios, is to join and shoot IDPA matches (International Defense Pistol Association). Most of the scenarios presented in matches are meant to mimick real life situations in which you would be forced to defend your life with a gun. Hope this helps.

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NRA Certified Instructor

All great information and ideas for SD type shooting. After l got my CCW license l asked my U.S. Marshall buddy what distance he would recommend. He said 7 yards, a good distance for in the house type shooting and confrontations with a BG.

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Isaiah 55:8-9
Phil. 4:13

I do most of my SD practicing 30 feet and closer. Was at the range recently and this was the results from the 30 foot range. Our semi annual qualifications include 10 rounds at 75 feet, but you it's not too tough to just get it in the black at that range.

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- Change it back -

Consistent B-27 head shots at 15 yards are what satisfy me (for stationary shooting).

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Centennial Every Day

In Maryland, LEOSA qualifications require shots from the 3, 7, 15, and 25 yard lines. Shooting is with both strong and weak hands; one handed and two handed. There are also kneeling and barricade components.

In addition, the same elements are duplicated in the "night" fire session.

Hope this is useful.

Be safe.

As jtpur mentioned, draw and fire "one or two" aimed shots, do not dump your full load with "spray and pray". Practice makes this as fast as drawing and spraying. Often one well places shot eliminates the situation.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I do not deliver classes very often anymore so I do not have the latest data at my fingertips but, the last time I checked, 90% of shootings (self-defense, robberies, murders, etc.) occurred at 21 feet (7 yards) or LESS. That is why 7 yards was, and I believe still is, the standard 'combat' distance.

Within reason, I am not against practicing self-defense shooting at distances beyond 7 yards. Given that in most localities the use of deadly force requires fear of death or grievous bodily harm to be present before deadly force is used; however, I believe it would often be difficult to articulate said fear is present if the assailant is significantly beyond 21 feet.

That being said, I normally practice self defense shooting from an arm's length away from the target out to 7 yards but I occassionally dabble out to 10 yards with self-defense practice. Naturally, I also incorporate regular practice with retention/disarming techniques, drawing/firing from concealment, etc.

I am also an avid handgun hunter and I have harvested game out to 100 yards with most of my handguns, including some I carry concealed, so I consider myself an accomplished marksman at longer distances but I do not believe extended distances like that to fall under the realm of reasonable self-defense for civilians.

For what it is worth, that is my two cents. And in a world where different opinions and perspective abound, it is educational and often refreshing to learn the perspective of others but this is one of those areas where you ultimately must decide what is best for you.

~Harvester

Distance for SD training with a pistol?

1 to 50 yards. Futher out than that, I figure I have the chance of running away or running for a rifle or shotgun and not getting shot while running.

I pratice mostly from 1 to 25 yards. I pratice in manny positions, but I like the missionary or rice paddy prone the best.

I still teach firearms safety, shooting and combat firearms skills to folks who are my friends. Don't charge them a thing,
for the last few years it has been Doctors and Nurses who work with my wife. I always try to get them to encourage their significant other to come along too.

I'm not an expert instructor, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night and I spent 27 years of my almost 34 year LE Career as a Police Firearms Instructor as a Collateral Duty.

Rule 303

I have always theorized that if you can hit small things at a long distance, you can hit large things at a short distance. I like shooting at 25, 50, and 100 yards double action and try to keep the groups as small as possible (I'm old and it's harder to see, but I still "give it a shot"). Then on B27's I shoot 7, 10, 15, and 25 yards, focusing on double action trigger control and sight picture. Speed is something that comes with practice, and can be enhanced by draw/dry fire exercises.

alan,

your SD practice sounds just fine.

i do most of my SD practice with my model 649 and model 64-4. 8" x 11" target, distance 25 - 30 feet, single hand grip, DAO. 60% weak hand, 40% strong hand.

Well at today's hotel prices you outta start charging

Alan, your standard practice is good as the others have said. A couple also mentioned that if you get good at longer distances, you will be better up close.
You also need to practice some out to the maximum distance your range allows. Just because you're not good at longer distance isn't an excuse. Get better.
If his weapon is lethal at any visual distances as a firearm is, then you're at risk if you have no option to flee.

My primary cc is a 640-1 to which I recently added Crimson Trace grips. Took some practice but I can now shoot 2" groups at up to 10 yards point shooting (with older eyes and arthritis I need an edge). During practice I also shut off the laser and rely on the iron sights, figuring if it doesn't work I can still hit the target w/o the new technology.

Here is something interesting: a friend with the CCW was being shot at while he was on the lake in his boat; with wife and kids. He had his .45, the shooter on the shore had an AK.

He's thinking of accuracy at 100 yds. A shootout with a rifle, might be a losing situation. He revved it up and got out of there. Called the ranger, no AK was found. Go figure.

I work on head shots at 15 yds slow fire. I work on head shots, draw and engage at 10 yards, one round per draw. I work on five rounds five seconds at 7 yds. I need to start working on weak hand shooting and reloading.

I practice with what I carry the most a 442 loaded with 158gr LSWCs at 800 fps.

A lot of good info that echos what I was taught when I was an LEO. Just keep in mind you're practicing at your own pace at a stationary piece of paper. Once you think you've become proficient think of this. Now this piece of paper has come to life and he's got a knife/gun and coming right at you. In the event you need to draw and fire your weapon in a situation you WILL be under a tremendous amount of stress. The only way to try to simulate this is to run. If you can, set the loaded gun down and run back approx. 25yds, immediately turn around and run back. Then immediately pick up your gun and fire two round at center mass 7yds away. Don't hesitate, do it. Don't be surprised if you miss either. I remember seeing several candidates that couldn't hit a full size silhouette their first time. It's not something you need to practice continuously but it's a good indicator of what to expect. That's my .02

I practice 3-7 & 15 yards mostly but stray out as far as 100yds just to keep proficient. My weapon is a Sig 226 in 357sig.

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20 years Mil, 18 yrs Sac P.D.

This is likely the only thread where I agree with everything said.

I would like to add that practice is always a good thing and there cannot be enough of it.

However this is not perfect practice. The above practice scenes are being done with forethought and expectations with anticipated movements.

Try carrying a friend with you and an adjustable timer. Set the time to various times and then begin talking with your friend to take your mind off of the shooting. When the timer goes off, draw and fire. This way you may have your back to the target, you may be doing other things or just be engrossed in conversation so the timer is an unexpected event.

You will be shocked at how much different practice becomes.

This is good advice. I took a training class several years ago where we did a similar drill. We had to fire 7 rounds at a target (I believe it was set at about 10 feet or so), run about 50 ft to pick up a loaded mag, run back 50 ft to the firing line, fire 7 rounds, and repeat until 50 rounds had been fired. On top of that, there were numbers at different areas of the target and we had to shoot the number yelled out by the instructor. I think it was one of the best drills I've ever done.

Unfortunately, I shoot at an indoor range so I doubt this would be acceptable now. However, I've done freehand squats at the bench to get my heart rate up. Not quite as effective, but still beneficial, I think.

Of course, this is presuming you don't have any medical conditions that would preclude such exertion. Training to the point of injury or illness doesn't do anyone any good.

I also think that anyone trying this should also be well-grounded in the fundamentals before moving on to training with exertion. Safety first.

I like this idea. Thanks for sharing.

This reminds of a video I'd seen. It was a force-on-force training exercise. The student walked in knowing he was going to engage a target in the room. When it was time to react and shoot he did the startle response, drew and fired. It took him almost 3 seconds to do so. According to the narrator the student had training and experience in military special operations and could probably react, draw, and fire in under 1.5 seconds on a regular shooting range.

Nice... excellent comments and I *really* like the recent posts regarding simulating "real life" situations. Another excellent opportunity to experience scenarios intended to mimic possible situations is IDPA. Again, it is still not the real world but is an excellent tool and a lot of fun!

Like I tell people about hunting and being responsible about harvesting game... you may reasonably expect your shot grouping to at least double afield compared to what you can accomplish at the range. If you can calmly group shots into 5" standing off-hand at the range then you can expect that group to grow to 10" in the woods. Needless to say, I would not consider that sufficient prowess and more practice would be required before heading afield.

Back to the topic at hand- if it is that important to hone your skills when it comes to putting food on the table... how important is honing your skills when your life or your family's life could be in jeopardy?

Again... good info and commentary!!

~Harvester

Read this in the AM, just before leaving for the range. Tried it several times and will work this into my routine. Thanks for the good advice.

Good ideas all. The only thing I have not read on this thread is shooting from the prone or on your back position. Took an advanced pistol class last year that included simulating getting knocked on your behind,then having to draw from the laying position and engaging the target.

I'm with Lobo gun leather. old dislocated shoulder that never healed properly, torn Rotator cuff and a twitchy knee have really limited my fight or flight options, so I practice at distances between 15 – 30 feet. All shooting is done double action. I concentrate on accuracy first with speed as a close second.

I'm to beat up to fight much anymore or to run to far.

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Always Stay Strong!