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  #101  
Old 11-11-2011, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
And if the CIA, Navy Seals, FBI, Federal Marshals, State Police, Sheriff Department and local police use them,...


I due respect to a fellow member but just a guess: Do you by any chance carry a CCW BADGE around your neck, and have you applied to ALL the above LEO, and Military institutions getting turned down by ALL?

As I said it is just a guess, but when someone continues to compare their life with people who actually use a firearm they are usually VERY young, or a hard core wannabe.

Respectfully,
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  #102  
Old 11-11-2011, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
And if the CIA, Navy Seals, FBI, Federal Marshals, State Police, Sheriff Department and local police use them,..... well,......

no I suppose that doesn't mean a thing.

If 1 old 0311 uses a wheel gun that is the best. I'm convinced.

How could I be so stupid to spend all this money on these garbage semi-autos?

Thank you for your wise advice 1 old 0311. You are super cool. I want to be just like you some day.


So since soldiers use M4's then a person shouldn't have a shotgun for home defense? Clearing a house full of insungents is not quite the same as investigating a bump inthe night, is it? or do you have an M4 with a tac-light and laser on it behind your door? Do you also walk around in body armor since cops and soldiers do? Cops and soldiers use semi autos because their job REQUIRES them to engage an armed person, while the LAW requires you to retreat if the option is there. Are you REALLY gonna compare yourself to a cop or a soldier? Your rationale for carrying a semi auto is you may be attacked by a gang wielding Mac-10's, or you may be taken hostage after a gang storms a grocery store and kills a few people before coming for you? You watch WAY too much TV, man. Semi auto's are fine for self defense. I have several and if the situation dictates it, I strap on a 17 round 9MM. But for picking up milk at the 7-11 in my quiet neighborhood, I feel just fine with a 6 shot revolver.

Let me guess, you won't carry a semi with a magazine disconnect in case you have to do a tactical reload in the middle of a shootout, right?

I wanna go shopping with you, man. "Cover me while I get the Hot Pockets. if I don't make it back, tell my wife I love her".

Last edited by kbm6893; 11-11-2011 at 09:40 PM.
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  #103  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:20 PM
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I knew when I read the OP, this was gonna be lengthy, and just how it would wind up. And it did. Hope you got your answer, just ignore the rest of it.
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  #104  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:27 PM
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Newbie here. Sorry to change the subject but I'm open to any ideas. My issues are these.
I'm 6'2", 155 lbs and wear jeans and a tee shirt 70% of the time. I can only realisticaly carry a J frame Smith or an LCP in front pocket and not print out badly. At least, these are the only guns that I know of. Even so, I've noticed several people 'pick out' my 642. So when I'm going somewhere where I'll see people I now carry my LCP even though I don't shoot it as well a a J frame.
I'd love to have the option of carrying a high cap or L frame but.... it's not going to work.
Are there any othe options for pocket carry?
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  #105  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:28 PM
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The way this thread is going...the only thing better would be a MIM parts vs Forged parts disscussion!! (eyeroll) .....
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  #106  
Old 11-11-2011, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893 View Post
So since soldiers use M4's then a person shouldn't have a shotgun for home defense?...
Nope, shotguns are silly.

Quote:
Are you REALLY gonna compare yourself to a cop or a soldier?
You're not trying to compare a cop to a soldier are you?
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  #107  
Old 11-12-2011, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jack oconnor View Post
I have about an equal number of pistols v revolvers.
For CCW for me ; it has to be a revolver.
I am not planning on getting into a fire fight and reloads are not an issue, so 6 rounds of .357 or .44 mag. and a Crimson Trace Laser grip satisfy my needs.
If a .41 mag. comes my way that will become my next CCW.

My decision was made due to a couple of instances where a semi-auto malfunction scared me and convinced me to go revolver.
Just my $.02
Motion seconded on the .41, my dad used to have a .41 snubby, but sold it. Loved that little hand cannon and if I can find another it will be my BUG.
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  #108  
Old 11-12-2011, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 1973Glenfield25 View Post
Newbie here. Sorry to change the subject but I'm open to any ideas. My issues are these.
I'm 6'2", 155 lbs and wear jeans and a tee shirt 70% of the time. I can only realisticaly carry a J frame Smith or an LCP in front pocket and not print out badly. At least, these are the only guns that I know of. Even so, I've noticed several people 'pick out' my 642. So when I'm going somewhere where I'll see people I now carry my LCP even though I don't shoot it as well a a J frame.
I'd love to have the option of carrying a high cap or L frame but.... it's not going to work.
Are there any othe options for pocket carry?
Welcome to the forum. This is an unusually contentious thread...

Front pocket carry in jeans limits your options. Personally, I prefer belt holsters of some sort, but I have been known to carry an LCR in the front pocket of cargo type pants. Depending on the cut of your shirt, back pocket carry may be an option. Personally, I haven't tried it (no need) but some seem to like it.
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  #109  
Old 11-12-2011, 01:32 AM
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It's really very simple. Carry what you want and what you shoot well. No one weapon will be the final solution. I carry, depending on weather, clothes, either a semi auto or a revolver. I fit the weapon to the occasion.
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  #110  
Old 11-12-2011, 02:34 AM
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If weather and clothing options permit I will carry my Glock 19 usually with no extra magazine. If weather and clothing don't permit the Glock 19 then I'll go with a S&W airweight usually no reload, sometimes 1 speed loader or a speed strip. Revolvers and autos both have a lot going for them and some detractors as well. The bottom line is carrying a firearm is better than not carrying one. Weather you have 5 rounds or 30 rounds on you, weather its a revolver or an auto, weather is 40 S&W or .380. Carry what you are comfortable with and shoot well.

JP
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  #111  
Old 11-13-2011, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nawilson View Post
Welcome to the forum. This is an unusually contentious thread...

Front pocket carry in jeans limits your options. Personally, I prefer belt holsters of some sort, but I have been known to carry an LCR in the front pocket of cargo type pants. Depending on the cut of your shirt, back pocket carry may be an option. Personally, I haven't tried it (no need) but some seem to like it.
Yes - welcome to the forum! You might check out Pocket Holsters for back pocket holsters that don't print and they can be modified with the removal of two screws so you can use it for front pocket carry. Another member here had advised me of them some time ago - I purchased one for myself and find it very easy to use.

Best to you.

Pete
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  #112  
Old 11-13-2011, 02:27 PM
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The revolver vs. pistol, which is better for self defense? Carry one of each!
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  #113  
Old 11-13-2011, 02:30 PM
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Nope, shotguns are silly.

You're not trying to compare a cop to a soldier are you?
There goes any credibility you might have had, saying shotguns are silly for home defense. There's a reason Germany complained about the use of them against their soldiers in WW 1. And while the mission of a cop is different than a soldier, they share a few things in common, which are NOT shared by a civilian. They have a duty to pursue bad guys and are more likely to come into contact with the "Mac-10 wielding marauding gangs" that must roam the neighborhoods of some of the posters here.

I'm off to the gunshop to trade in my revolver for a 30 round semi auto with a tac light and laser. Don't wanna be taken out by the roving gangs when I go to get some milk for the baby!
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  #114  
Old 11-13-2011, 02:55 PM
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Actually wasn't there just a ruling that cops have no obligation to protect civilians?

And yes, we have Mac 10's in Wisconsin.
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  #115  
Old 11-13-2011, 03:50 PM
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And yes, we have Mac 10's in Wisconsin.

You just didn't have carry permits till 3 weeks ago. My Indiana L-I-F-E-T-I-M-E permit was only $130
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  #116  
Old 11-13-2011, 05:04 PM
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Actually wasn't there just a ruling that cops have no obligation to protect civilians?

And yes, we have Mac 10's in Wisconsin.
I never said cops have a mandate to protect civilians. I said they have a mandate to run TOWARDS trouble. And I'm sure there are some Mac-10's in every state. The trick is to move to an area where they are not common. If I had to worry about marauding gangs ith Mac-10's taking hostages ad trading shots with armed civilians at the local 7-11, I'd move, period.
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  #117  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:11 PM
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Gents,

Wow! What a ponderous question. I like them both! I do prefer a decent Smith revolver (Model 19/28), but must confess that a decent DA/SA or 1911 trips my trigger just fine.

I think it prudent to carry whatever one feels most comfortable with. For me it's the revolver, the Beretta M92 in DAO or the 1911. Oh, I forgot to mention the Model 4566.

Bottom Line: Train with ALL of them and adopt a couple that you truly feel comfortable with to trust your hide to.

Good question. Too bad its a hard answer to come up with...
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  #118  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:13 PM
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I never said cops have a mandate to protect civilians. I said they have a mandate to run TOWARDS trouble. And I'm sure there are some Mac-10's in every state. The trick is to move to an area where they are not common. If I had to worry about marauding gangs ith Mac-10's taking hostages ad trading shots with armed civilians at the local 7-11, I'd move, period.
I need to travel to fins a Mac 10, but not far. I don't live too far from the Chicago / Minneapolis run. Plenty of firepower on the roads....
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  #119  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
I need to travel to fins a Mac 10, but not far. I don't live too far from the Chicago / Minneapolis run. Plenty of firepower on the roads....
Your life sounds like the plot to "Mad Max". Sell a few guns and move.
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  #120  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:44 PM
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Default To each his (or her) own...

I still carry the same thing they gave me in the Army, al be it with some updates, and now that I'm a little older, I utilize the appendix carry. Flapjack.
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  #121  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:03 PM
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I still carry the same thing they gave me in the Army, al be it with some updates, and now that I'm a little older, I utilize the appendix carry. Flapjack.
Hey...I still see a little room on one of the tac rails for tactical cappuccino maker.
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  #122  
Old 11-14-2011, 12:33 PM
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Where's the can-opener and scissors on that bad boy?
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  #123  
Old 11-14-2011, 01:15 PM
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Hey...I still see a little room on one of the tac rails for tactical cappuccino maker.
man the cappuccino maker is one I find room for before I bother with lasers.
there's just no replacement for that quick pick me up in a gun battle
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  #124  
Old 11-14-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
I need to travel to fins a Mac 10, but not far. I don't live too far from the Chicago / Minneapolis run. Plenty of firepower on the roads....
I am from a stop off for the drug runners between Chicago and Indy. When the Chicago projects closed, they emptied out into the Lafayette projects. I have never felt under-gunned with my 1911. Which only provides me with one more bullet than a revolver. I will admit that I often carry two spare mags and a small fixed blade. I would only carry one as I believe in the old boyscout motto, but Springfield Armory was kind enough to provide me with a double mag carrier so I might as well carry two and the knife is for weapon retention or in extremely close quarters, as is the case in mugging, not for fear of running dry.
Still, if I make a quick run to the grocery store or something it's often just the gun.
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  #125  
Old 11-14-2011, 05:10 PM
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I vote for consistent simplicity.

In a stressful situation....Point, shoot, bang.

What will I actually carry each day?

Am I capable with the weapon?

Had to work very, very hard on my shooting skills and now feel confident with a snubbie.

Currently, my EDC is a Glock 26.

So to answer your question... likely both...

Last edited by wnr700; 11-14-2011 at 06:00 PM.
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  #126  
Old 11-15-2011, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 1973Glenfield25 View Post
Newbie here. Sorry to change the subject but I'm open to any ideas. My issues are these.
I'm 6'2", 155 lbs and wear jeans and a tee shirt 70% of the time. I can only realisticaly carry a J frame Smith or an LCP in front pocket and not print out badly. At least, these are the only guns that I know of. Even so, I've noticed several people 'pick out' my 642. So when I'm going somewhere where I'll see people I now carry my LCP even though I don't shoot it as well a a J frame.
I'd love to have the option of carrying a high cap or L frame but.... it's not going to work.
Are there any othe options for pocket carry?
You can carry pretty much what you want. You're just going to have to wear more than a T-shirt to do it. Maybe. If the T-shirt is opaque enough and loose enough and long enough, you might even be able to get away with that. You can start from naked, if you want, or just swim trunks, and ask yourself what you can carry, or you can start from what you want to carry, and ask yourself how to dress.

Your choice.
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  #127  
Old 11-15-2011, 07:34 PM
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1973Glenfield25

I think Model520Fan is spot on, you'll have to conceal by means of long vest, baggy shirts, jacket or a shoulder bag. I put a camera logo on my bag and people don't seem to give it a second look. Depending on your climate location and work situation it can be PITA but only the hottest days are really a problem. People around you get use to your attire and new people you meet don't really seem to pay that much attention.

I have pocket holsters for my J frames but don't really care for them. You can not remove the weapon very fast, at least I can't.

Good luck, I think you'll adapt pretty quick.
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  #128  
Old 11-16-2011, 01:21 AM
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Well 25 years of carrying both here's my advise. If the bad guy is unarmed, not to big and by himself, I'll chose the revolver. Otherwise I want my Glock, now I don't mind a revolver for back-up.

It's like saying you would you choose a P47 over a F15 for a dogfight, you may feel nostalgic for the old warbird but sooner or later you got to upgrade if you want to stay alive. If the revolver was so great why did we depend so heavily on the shotgun when the S#%# hit the fan. The only reason you were in a shootout with a revolver was because you couldn't get to your shotgun. After we got Glocks the shotguns stayed in the squad cars.

I wouldn't depend on a revolver for home defense these days. In my area the big thing is home invasion, anywhere from 3-5 guys heavily armed with pistols and AK's and you want to defend your family with a 5 or 6 shot revolver. Surrender isn't really an option they are there more for the rape and murder then money.

Don't get me wrong I love revolvers but I love my life more. Trust me before we went to autos you felt naked, the bad guys aren't stupid they arm themselves to win and they don't carry revolvers unless that's all they have available.

Now that we got this one wrapped up lets get a real topic like "is 223 enough for deer" or the greatest all time topic " which is better the 308 or 30-06".

Last edited by Mattkcc; 11-16-2011 at 01:31 AM.
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  #129  
Old 11-16-2011, 11:17 AM
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Truth of the matter is this...he (or she) who creates a massive disruption of electrical power or causes a dramatic decrease in hydralic pressure...first...WINS...period

If you're gonna carry...you owe the rest of society to train...
Train to think and evaluate quickly...
Train to constantly evaluate your surroundings...
Train your mind to a winner's set...
Train to know when to get your loved ones elsewhere AND train them
to follow your instruction without question or hesitation...
Train, Train, Train...

As a great guru once said, "There is NO second place winner"
Thank you MR. Jordan and may you find rest...
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  #130  
Old 11-16-2011, 12:23 PM
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Well 25 years of carrying both here's my advise. If the bad guy is unarmed, not to big and by himself, I'll chose the revolver. Otherwise I want my Glock, now I don't mind a revolver for back-up.

It's like saying you would you choose a P47 over a F15 for a dogfight, you may feel nostalgic for the old warbird but sooner or later you got to upgrade if you want to stay alive. If the revolver was so great why did we depend so heavily on the shotgun when the S#%# hit the fan. The only reason you were in a shootout with a revolver was because you couldn't get to your shotgun. After we got Glocks the shotguns stayed in the squad cars.

I wouldn't depend on a revolver for home defense these days. In my area the big thing is home invasion, anywhere from 3-5 guys heavily armed with pistols and AK's and you want to defend your family with a 5 or 6 shot revolver. Surrender isn't really an option they are there more for the rape and murder then money.

Don't get me wrong I love revolvers but I love my life more. Trust me before we went to autos you felt naked, the bad guys aren't stupid they arm themselves to win and they don't carry revolvers unless that's all they have available.

Now that we got this one wrapped up lets get a real topic like "is 223 enough for deer" or the greatest all time topic " which is better the 308 or 30-06".
In your area I'd recommend a move if possible, if not I'd say a semi-auto shotgun before the glock.
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  #131  
Old 11-16-2011, 01:09 PM
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Well 25 years of carrying both here's my advise. If the bad guy is unarmed, not to big and by himself, I'll chose the revolver. Otherwise I want my Glock, now I don't mind a revolver for back-up.

It's like saying you would you choose a P47 over a F15 for a dogfight, you may feel nostalgic for the old warbird but sooner or later you got to upgrade if you want to stay alive. If the revolver was so great why did we depend so heavily on the shotgun when the S#%# hit the fan. The only reason you were in a shootout with a revolver was because you couldn't get to your shotgun. After we got Glocks the shotguns stayed in the squad cars.

I wouldn't depend on a revolver for home defense these days. In my area the big thing is home invasion, anywhere from 3-5 guys heavily armed with pistols and AK's and you want to defend your family with a 5 or 6 shot revolver. Surrender isn't really an option they are there more for the rape and murder then money.

Don't get me wrong I love revolvers but I love my life more. Trust me before we went to autos you felt naked, the bad guys aren't stupid they arm themselves to win and they don't carry revolvers unless that's all they have available.

Now that we got this one wrapped up lets get a real topic like "is 223 enough for deer" or the greatest all time topic " which is better the 308 or 30-06".

Translation: Those darn wheel guns are WAY too hard to learn to shoot well.
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  #132  
Old 11-16-2011, 05:46 PM
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If the revolver was so great why did we depend so heavily on the shotgun when the S#%# hit the fan. The only reason you were in a shootout with a revolver was because you couldn't get to your shotgun. After we got Glocks the shotguns stayed in the squad cars.
Really? I tried to get you the e-mail to the guy pictured and his SWAT team:
Wish I Could Carry A Revolver On Duty photo - Doug Wever photos at pbase.com Apparently they haven't gotten the word to ditch their revolvers, and I thought you could let them know they were endangering themselves because he looks pretty vulnerable to me too.

Peace
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  #133  
Old 11-16-2011, 05:55 PM
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As a great guru once said, "There is NO second place winner"
Thank you MR. Jordan and may you find rest...
Amen.

This copy of Bill's book was autographed to me at the 1976 Camp Perry Matches. I had the honor to talk with him several times at different events back in the '70s in South Texas area.

Memories I cherish.
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  #134  
Old 11-16-2011, 06:02 PM
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Really? I tried to get you the e-mail to the guy pictured and his SWAT team:
Wish I Could Carry A Revolver On Duty photo - Doug Wever photos at pbase.com Apparently they haven't gotten the word to ditch their revolvers, and I thought you could let them know they were endangering themselves because he looks pretty vulnerable to me too.

Peace
Funny he doesn't have a bolt action rifle. They are easier to use, don't jam, you can use more powerful ammo in them, they're easy for beginners to master....

Besides, the guy is from Europe. He probably drives a 70cc econobox with the steering wheel on the wrong side.
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  #135  
Old 11-16-2011, 06:07 PM
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Funny he doesn't have a bolt action rifle. They are easier to use, don't jam, you can use more powerful ammo in them, they're easy for beginners to master....

Besides, the guy is from Europe. He probably drives a 70cc econobox with the steering wheel on the wrong side.
Yeah well, his agency didn't choose a bolt action rifle, and his agency didn't choose a semi-auto side arm either. I don't know, I guess they just chose their best option in both cases.

Last edited by dwever; 11-16-2011 at 06:15 PM.
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  #136  
Old 11-16-2011, 07:07 PM
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IMO in general a DA revolver is better for self defense. The automatic has some inherent advantages in combat but in general these are not significant in most self defense situations and are countered by a revolver's simplicity. I would qualify that with 2 exceptions:

1. For deep concealed carry you have a better ammo selection in an automatic. While you can get a .357 in a subcompact revolver that caliber is not any more effective than a .38 special in a very short barrell, and with tremendous recoil and flash to boot. A 9mm or .40 will generally be a better self defense round out of a very short barrell and are available in sub compact autos. Now that said my prefered subcompact is a 5-shot .38 special snubbie. When you move up to a compact to large size handgun though that advantage disappears and I don't think any pistol out there has a significant advantage over .357 or .44 special in terms of stopping power out of a 4 or more inch barrell.

2. the second case where an auto would be better is if you have some reason to expect an attack in force vice being a target of opportunity. For example if you are a drug dealer, carry around wads of cash or jewels or have pissed off a gang and you think you may be specifically targeted. This is no longer the typical self defense use but is essentially a combat situation and I would want a high capacity automatic over a revolver (and a rifle or shotgun over either).

Last edited by auburn2; 11-16-2011 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:45 PM
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If the bad guy is unarmed, not to big and by himself, I'll chose the revolver.
If the bad guy is unarmed, not too big and alone, why do you have a gun? If a revolver is enough for one bad guy, is it good enough for two? What if they're two really small bad guys? Three? Where's the dividing line?

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It's like saying you would you choose a P47 over a F15 for a dogfight, you may feel nostalgic for the old warbird but sooner or later you got to upgrade if you want to stay alive.
The P47 was notoriously sluggish in dogfights due to its heavy armament which is why pilots preferred the P51. However, the P47 was good for attacking stationary targets.

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If the revolver was so great why did we depend so heavily on the shotgun when the S#%# hit the fan. The only reason you were in a shootout with a revolver was because you couldn't get to your shotgun. After we got Glocks the shotguns stayed in the squad cars.
If the Glock is so great, why is it that departments across the country have supplemented the shotguns with patrol rifles, i.e. AR15s? We never had to have those when we carried revolvers. And any Officer who leaves his shotgun in the car when he knows the S#%# is going to hit the fan doesn't need to be there to begin with.

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I wouldn't depend on a revolver for home defense these days. In my area the big thing is home invasion, anywhere from 3-5 guys heavily armed with pistols and AK's and you want to defend your family with a 5 or 6 shot revolver. Surrender isn't really an option they are there more for the rape and murder then money.
So if the only option a homeowner has is a revolver I guess he might just as well roll over and give up, because apparently the revolver is utterly useless for home defense.

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Don't get me wrong I love revolvers but I love my life more. Trust me before we went to autos you felt naked, the bad guys aren't stupid they arm themselves to win and they don't carry revolvers unless that's all they have available.
Really? Gee, I've been carrying a weapon in uniform or plainclothes for thirty years now. Most of the time it's been a revolver. Thanks for pointing out that I've been walking around naked and stupid for most of that time. How did I ever survive?

If the above sounds a bit harsh, well, it just might be. The opinion that a person isn't truly armed unless he or she carries the latest and greatest fantastic plastic with all the bells and whistles is just ****. From personal experience I can tell you that surviving a gunfight has much less to do with the equipment used than the mindset and tactics of the person involved.
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  #138  
Old 11-16-2011, 07:57 PM
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While you can get a .357 in a subcompact revolver that caliber is not any more effective than a .38 special in a very short barrell, and with tremendous recoil and flash to boot.
I'm not sure the data supports that, but also you didn't give a specific measurement on "very short barrel." Even with +P the .357 comes out on top from a 2.5" snub, with standard .38 the difference is even more dramatic.

From a snub nose web site, the following velocities were published for a 2.5 inch snub nose. These are not muzzle velocities, but taken ten feet away.

Ammunition Average Velocity (ft/sec):

Federal .38 Special 129-grain Hydrashok +P: 846 ft/sec
Winchester .38 Special 158-grain LSWCHP +P: 858 ft/sec

Remington .357 Magnum 125-grain SJHP: 1243 ft/sec (1,450 ft/sec published by Remington and in an independent article, no doubt measured from a longer barrel).

Article conclusion: While neither [ammo] is at its best in the snub, the magnum is the more potent of the two.

Last edited by dwever; 11-16-2011 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:15 PM
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I can't recall anyone ever pushing a revolver out of battery during a struggle at bad breath distance.

I've not seen a semi auto that could be fired - twice - from in an overcoat pocket either.

I do recall a Red Flag excercise at Nellis AFB in the 1980's. A bunch of "antiquated" Northrop F-5's armed with "simple" heat seeking missles merged with a couple of flights of technically superior F-15's armed with all their goodies. The F-5's ate the F-15's up. IIRC analysts scratched their heads wondering how inferior aircraft could get a shot at such high tech aircraft as the F-15.

Simple answer, it's the Indian not the arrow. YMMV. Void where prohibited ect ect.....
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:53 PM
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I can't recall anyone ever pushing a revolver out of battery during a struggle at bad breath distance.

I've not seen a semi auto that could be fired - twice - from in an overcoat pocket either.

I do recall a Red Flag excercise at Nellis AFB in the 1980's. A bunch of "antiquated" Northrop F-5's armed with "simple" heat seeking missles merged with a couple of flights of technically superior F-15's armed with all their goodies. The F-5's ate the F-15's up. IIRC analysts scratched their heads wondering how inferior aircraft could get a shot at such high tech aircraft as the F-15.

Simple answer, it's the Indian not the arrow. YMMV. Void where prohibited ect ect.....
Well said. STOP READING, I'M GOING WAY OFF TOPIC: 18DAI: I/we supported F-5 Aggressor Squadron's in that time frame CONUS- Nellis and in conjunction with EWCAS out of Hurlbert; and, overseas at San Miguel Naval Communication Station woking with GCI's out of Wallace Air Station electronically engaging F-5's and others out of Clarke AB and off ships as part of the USAF Electronic Security Command. I was at Kadena when F-15's were delivered.
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  #141  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:43 AM
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What can we shoot this thread with to make it die???
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:58 AM
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Really? I tried to get you the e-mail to the guy pictured and his SWAT team:
Wish I Could Carry A Revolver On Duty photo - Doug Wever photos at pbase.com Apparently they haven't gotten the word to ditch their revolvers, and I thought you could let them know they were endangering themselves because he looks pretty vulnerable to me too.

Peace
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  #143  
Old 11-17-2011, 12:36 PM
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I wouldn't depend on a revolver for home defense these days. In my area the big thing is home invasion, anywhere from 3-5 guys heavily armed with pistols and AK's and you want to defend your family with a 5 or 6 shot revolver. Surrender isn't really an option they are there more for the rape and murder then money.
these things just lose the fun factor once they meet resistance.
it could be a larger group on a home invasion, after you have killed 6 men with all the blood guts and gore capable of a max loaded 44. you will find plenty of time to reload.
I'd never discount a revolver as a viable weapon for as long as its three distinct advantages are accounted for.
out of box accuracy
power potential
reliability
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:37 PM
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What can we shoot this thread with to make it die???
>BANG!!!!!!!!!<

so much for one shot stops
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:01 PM
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If the Glock is so great, why is it that departments across the country have supplemented the shotguns with patrol rifles, i.e. AR15s? We never had to have those when we carried revolvers. And any Officer who leaves his shotgun in the car when he knows the S#%# is going to hit the fan doesn't need to be there to begin with.
The patrol rifles have a lot more to do with that Charlie Foxtrot in North Hollywood. Only one handgun I know of capable of the light body armor penetration they needed that day and it'd be impractical for the non-combat situations that most police shootings are. I see both sides of the auto vs. revolver debate. Honestly does one make the assailant any less dead than the other?
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:09 PM
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I'd like to say I'd come barging down the steps with my 329PD, but while shock and awe works great on a dude holding my stereo, I don't think its the right choice .... I'd love to say its gonna be my MP.45 where I'll strategically place a grouping the size of a dime in the BG's forehead like some of the other mall ninjas, I mean CCW badge holders, I mean Ex military who can't tell you whats on discharge papers , aka the under 20 gun professional/youtube expert/video champ .... I wish I could turn on the Mr. Coffee on my Mr. AR15, or come blazing into the room with my AK with jungle clips holding mags together ...

In all reality, the good 'ole Remington 870 will be racked at the top of the steps, and we'll go from there.

also, at 3am , I'm an ambien shooter ... last thing I need is to go for tacticool aiming as I do a backflip down the steps and cartwheel into the living room (this is, of course, after I've pinned the BG to a wall with a handfull of throwing stars) ...

Also, if 6 rounds in the 870 don't do the job, I feel alot better using THAT as a club than anything else I've got.

total sidenote : ... I've heard from more than one LEO and others here that if you're involved even in a 'good' shooting, you can say goodbye to your firearm for the next few years as it sits in 'the rust locker' ..... so with that said, I know the preservation of life is #1 .... but if I can do the same (if not better) job with my 870 that I can buy at bass pro shops @ 9am and not have to worry about my Range Officer or APEX'ed out MP ......

Then again, we'll see what the Ambien tells me to do...
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Old 11-17-2011, 01:25 PM
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I could do a back flip down the steps and cartwheel into the living room...............but.......only one time...................and not on purpose. Regards 18DAI
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:05 PM
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Oh good Lord nogoodnamesleft.... Now you'll have sirrduke starting a thread asking which is better, throwing stars or blow darts for pinning bad guys against the wall....

I'm more of a wussy than all you tough guy 5-shots-is-all-I'll-ever-need guys.

Give me at least a dozen rounds and maybe I'll be able to defend myself. Shots to the head? Probably not. I'll have hands shaking, bowels quaking, knees knocking and mind blocking terror going on. My first 5 shots may be just to orient the barrel in the right direction....
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:20 PM
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Oh good Lord nogoodnamesleft.... Now you'll have sirrduke starting a thread asking which is better, throwing stars or blow darts for pinning bad guys against the wall....

I'm more of a wussy than all you tough guy 5-shots-is-all-I'll-ever-need guys.

Give me at least a dozen rounds and maybe I'll be able to defend myself. Shots to the head? Probably not. I'll have hands shaking, bowels quaking, knees knocking and mind blocking terror going on. My first 5 shots may be just to orient the barrel in the right direction....


Well that or you COULD spend some time at the range. Shooting a wheel gun is like any other acquired skill, PRACTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-17-2011, 03:29 PM
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My first 5 shots may be just to orient the barrel in the right direction....
That's why you need a C*** D-frame rather than a Smith J-frame.
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