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  #151  
Old 11-17-2011, 05:10 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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That's why you need a C*** D-frame rather than a Smith J-frame.

OR a seeing eye dog?
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  #152  
Old 11-17-2011, 05:17 PM
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I had a seeing eye dog for awhile. But he went deaf from the noise level of 357's fired in a room.
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  #153  
Old 11-17-2011, 05:43 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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I have no idea what a C*** is.

Anybody?
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  #154  
Old 11-17-2011, 05:51 PM
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Because I'm a bit lazy, I've not read the whole thread. However, I carry both autos and revolvers, sometimes two of one kind, often one of each, and I'm quite proficient with both. If I was significantly more proficient with one or the other, then that is all I would ever carry. I feel pretty much equally well protected with either, and won't carry an example of either kind that is not dead-reliable.
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  #155  
Old 11-17-2011, 06:45 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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Oh good Lord nogoodnamesleft.... Now you'll have sirrduke starting a thread asking which is better, throwing stars or blow darts for pinning bad guys against the wall....
Geez .. EVERYBODY knows superglue reigns supreme
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  #156  
Old 11-17-2011, 07:34 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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I have no idea what a C*** is.

Anybody?
It is a brand of handgun that some folks don't like to mention out loud in the presence of dedicated fans of S&W revolvers.
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  #157  
Old 11-17-2011, 09:55 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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The P47 was notoriously sluggish in dogfights due to its heavy armament which is why pilots preferred the P51. However, the P47 was good for attacking stationary targets.
That isn't true. Not only was the P-47 one of the fastest fighters in WW2, in terms of air combat was not outclassed by any other piston driven fighter. The P-47D, FW-190, P-51D, F6F and F4U are regarded together as the best mass produced piston driven fighters of the war. The P-47 also shot down more enemy aircraft than any other US fighter.

The reason the P-51 was favored by the 8th air force is it had a fuselage fuel tank and drop tanks which gave it a 1500 mile range, 3 times that of the P-47. This allowed the P-51 to escort US bombers all the way to Berlin (or anywhere in Europe) and back while the P-47s had to turn around in France.

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  #158  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:02 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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I'm not sure the data supports that, but also you didn't give a specific measurement on "very short barrel." Even with +P the .357 comes out on top from a 2.5" snub, with standard .38 the difference is even more dramatic.

From a snub nose web site, the following velocities were published for a 2.5 inch snub nose. These are not muzzle velocities, but taken ten feet away.

Ammunition Average Velocity (ft/sec):

Federal .38 Special 129-grain Hydrashok +P: 846 ft/sec
Winchester .38 Special 158-grain LSWCHP +P: 858 ft/sec

Remington .357 Magnum 125-grain SJHP: 1243 ft/sec (1,450 ft/sec published by Remington and in an independent article, no doubt measured from a longer barrel).

Article conclusion: While neither [ammo] is at its best in the snub, the magnum is the more potent of the two.
Well I was thinking more of an LCR or 640. No doubt a .357 magnum will always be faster than a similar bullet loaed to 38 spl pressures, but the shorter you get the less the difference is (and the more relevant the muzzle blast and recoil are). If you look at the exact same brands and bullets in both calibers in a 1.9" barrell you won't see the large difference you noted above. For example compare .357 hydrashocks vs. .38 hydrashocks out of 1.9".
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  #159  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:53 PM
Springfeildkid585 Springfeildkid585 is offline
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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aka the under 20 gun professional
Hey. Not cool.
I'm kidding, I am very aware of the type(they also extend well past the age of twenty).
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  #160  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:40 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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I'll have hands shaking, bowels quaking, knees knocking and mind blocking terror going on.

Why would this be so, necessarily? You're not required to sustain all that you know.


I like revolvers best. Revolvers are repeating firearms though they don't have the capacity for the "spray and pray" crowd.

I'm not going to just burn off 6 rounds and then curl up in a fetal position while waiving a white flag. God gives us thinking caps. Also, a dose of appropriate self-confidence is helpful. I can materially influence a fight against even multiple assailants with only my six-shot revolver while exercising a measure of control over such a situation. It is what it is and all self defense situations are unique. They may even have superior firepower but, unless they've bushwhacked me, they've got problems of their own if I'm still capable of fighting with my six rounds.

If they shoot me before I can haul out the ordnance then I guess it was just my time to go.

What vivid imaginations must some folks have about personal self defense! Every self defense scenario doesn't involve standing stark naked with empty gun in the midst of a square mile of West Texas flatland with no cover, completely surrounded by a dozen drug-crazed gang members armed with Uzis and Glocks.
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  #161  
Old 11-17-2011, 11:55 PM
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"What vivid imaginations must some folks have about personal self defense! Every self defense scenario doesn't involve standing stark naked with empty gun in the midst of a square mile of West Texas flatland with no cover, completely surrounded by a dozen drug-crazed gang members armed with Uzis and Glocks."

You're kidding, right? That's EXACTLY the scenario I'm preparing for! Well, maybe not.

Chuck
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  #162  
Old 11-18-2011, 11:33 AM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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Better to be prepared for the worst than unprepared. Like I said I fully expect my first five rounds to miss....
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  #163  
Old 11-18-2011, 11:55 AM
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Then, miss you will.
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  #164  
Old 11-18-2011, 01:09 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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Then, miss you will.
Yoda like...
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  #165  
Old 11-18-2011, 01:50 PM
Springfeildkid585 Springfeildkid585 is offline
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Better to be prepared for the worst than unprepared. Like I said I fully expect my first five rounds to miss....
The trick is practice, if you've ingrained in you're head the scenarios and you're reactions, you won't fall back on panic. It's some what like a situation in which I was awoken to a sudden thud downstairs. I grabbed my .45 from my lock-box confirmed the presence of my brothers and mother in their appropriate rooms, which they were. I racked my slide and the bullet misfed, now at that point I could have panicked, but I fell back on what I knew "Tap, Rack, Engage" the bullet fed and I proceeded to shout "Halt who goes there." All was my practiced plan, just like a fire or tornado, if you have a plan complete with "what if's" panic won't get the best of you. It turned out to be nothing, but in my mind, I believed there was a distinct possibility of an intruder.
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  #166  
Old 11-18-2011, 02:06 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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The trick is practice, if you've ingrained in you're head the scenarios and you're reactions, you won't fall back on panic. It's some what like a situation in which I was awoken to a sudden thud downstairs. I grabbed my .45 from my lock-box confirmed the presence of my brothers and mother in their appropriate rooms, which they were. I racked my slide and the bullet misfed, now at that point I could have panicked, but I fell back on what I knew "Tap, Rack, Engage" the bullet fed and I proceeded to shout "Halt who goes there." All was my practiced plan, just like a fire or tornado, if you have a plan complete with "what if's" panic won't get the best of you. It turned out to be nothing, but in my mind, I believed there was a distinct possibility of an intruder.
I have a little different plan that I have carried out on several occasions. I hear a bump in the night... The last one was a pretty loud bump, a huge poster board fell off the refrigerator and crashed on the floor with pens flying and magnets scattering, I mean it was a CRASH!

I sat up in bed. The watch dog was still sleeping on her cushy comforter my wife put down for her. Was I dreaming? How would the dog not be startled? Oh yeah, she's a sound sleeper. A 28" diameter tree blew down in a storm a month ago and the top branches hit the back porch and threw acorns all over the place, it sounded like a car crashed through the house, and the dog slept through that..... She's not deaf, I mean she can hear her treat box being moved from 200 feet away, on another floor, with the television on. She has selective hearing.

Anyway, back to the crash. I jumped from a sound sleep. My .40 is in the nightstand so I of course nonchalantly moved a leg over and gently kicked my wife in the shin... This is my own version of "Tap, rack and engage".
What? she asked.
Did you hear that crash? I asked her.
No, what was it?
I don't know I said, but something really loud downstairs, REALLY loud.
She got up and went to investigate. I popped open the gun safe just in case. She reported back that the big board fell again and I need to find a better way to attach it.
The dog never moved.

I hope if a burglar ever comes in that he has to move the dog treat box out of his way for something, because then he's dead meat...
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  #167  
Old 11-18-2011, 03:16 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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Better to be prepared for the worst than unprepared. Like I said I fully expect my first five rounds to miss....
The first part of the above quote is sound logic and the second half is part of the reason I switched from my Glock 32 to a S&W Model 66 as my primary carry gun, even though the 66 has half the capacity of the G32.

I received a single shot 20 ga. when I was about 13 (1971) and used it for all types of small game until I was 18 or 19, which is when I got a semi-auto 12 ga. After using the 12 exclusively for a few years I switched back & forth between the two, depending on what I was hunting.

A couple of years ago I got to thinking about carrying a revolver for concealed carry and started weighing the pros & cons of this switch and for some reason my hunting experience with the two types of shotguns mentioned above came to me. Not only did I think of it, it was the main reason I switched to a revolver.

My success rate with either the single or semi-auto shotgun was pretty much the same but I found myself expending more shells with the semi than with the single for the same amount of game. When I knew I was limited to only one shot with the single I must have taken that extra half-second before breaking the shot and with the semi I generally scored with my second, and sometimes third round if a shot still presented itself.

Based on that experience I switched over thinking that maybe by having fewer rounds my sub-concious might help me shoot better, a line of logic that may not serve me well, who knows.

When it comes to self defense in a public area my goal isn't only to stop the threat, it's also to ensure the safety of innocent's who may be in that area. These "innocents" might be across a parking lot sitting in a car and I may not even know they are there so I have to act as if they are.

By limiting the number of rounds I have I may keep myself from just pulling up and firing off indiscriminant shots and injuring, or even killing some little kid downrange that I wasn't even aware of, which is something I will do whatever it takes to prevent. To be honest, if I wasn't confident enough in my abilities to hit something with my first shot then I probably wouldn't even pull my gun, especially in a public place. If I didn't have enough confidence that I could hit it in five shots then I might not be carrying a gun to begin with, but that's just me.....

Last edited by ogilvyspecial; 11-18-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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  #168  
Old 11-18-2011, 03:57 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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The first part of the above quote is sound logic and the second half is part of the reson I switched from my Glock 32 to a S&W Model 66 as my primary carry gun, even though the 66 has half the capacity of the G32.

I received a single shot 20 ga. when I was about 13 (1971) and used it for all types of small game until I was 18 or 19, which is when I got a semi-auto 12 ga. After using the 12 exclusively for a few years I switched back & forth between the two, depending on what I was hunting.

A couple of years ago I got to thinking about carrying a revolver for concealed carry and started weighing the pros & cons of this switch and for some reason my hunting experience with the two types of shotguns mentioned above came to me. Not only did I think of it, it was the main reason I switched to a revolver.

My success rate with either the single or semi-auto shotgun was pretty much the same but I found myself expending more shells with the semi than with the single for the same amount of game. When I knew I was limited to only one shot with the single I must have taken that extra half-second before breaking the shot and with the semi I generally scored with my second, and sometimes third round if a shot still presented itself.

Based on that experience I switched over thinking that maybe by having fewer rounds my sub-concious might help me shoot better, a line of logic that may not serve me well, who knows.

When it comes to self defense in a public area my goal isn't only to stop the threat, it's also to ensure the safety of innocent's who may be in that area. These "innocents" might be across a parking lot sitting in a car and I may not even know they are there so I have to act as if they are.

By limiting the number of rounds I have I may keep myself from just pulling up and firing off indiscriminant shots and injuring, or even killing some little kid downrange that I wasn't even aware of, which is something I will do whatever it takes to prevent. To be honest, if I wasn't confident enough in my abilities to hit something with my first shot then I probably wouldn't even pull my gun, especially in a public place. If I didn't have enough confidence that I could hit it in five shots then I might not be carrying a gun to begin with, but that's just me.....
This forum is just chock full of people better than others!

Read between the lines. Lighten up just a tad. Don't be so quick to point out how superior you are.
I am a Hunter's Safety instructor. I teach gun safety. I'm not about to indiscriminately throw lead around... My main point is and has always been the same: I'm trying to instill the notion that your single shot muzzle loading flintlock pistol just may not be the bad azz weapon you think it is. You may just need more than 5 rounds. If you have 5 and need six, you can be just as dead with that super-cool retro throwback wheel gun.

So you are a more careful shot with your single shot 20 gauge. Don't you think that is a little different than this self-defense scenario? Maybe someone takes your daughter and is driving away, and there you are trying to stop the getaway car... Do you want to try to shoot the tires out with your single shot flintlock or your 5 shot wheel gun or do you want a M-16 with a 30 round mag and two more mags on your hip?

Or maybe you'd take care and not shoot at the getaway car at all for fear you may hit someone with a stray round while your daughter is taken away to some desolate field and slaughtered.

Self defense is self defense. Take care of yourself. You're not going to keep from shooting the bad guy who's on top of your wife jamming a knife repeatedly into her chest because you're in a busy mall. You aim, you shoot. This isn't deer hunting and you need to be sure your background is clear or you can't have a venison sausage for Christmas. This is saving your loved ones from losing their own lives. And your single shot is woefully inadequate for that.

The best answer to this entire question was several posts back by 18DAI when he said you can't shoot a semi-auto from inside a coat pocket twice. That there is thoughtful and excellent advice. Carrying a single shot so when the bad guys attack you'll concentrate on better shooting is just .... Grrrrrrrr.

Good luck to you sir, I think this thread is absolutely stupid except for 18DAI's excellent post, and I am done with it. I hope none of us ever have to try out our theories on which is better and comes up short.
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  #169  
Old 11-18-2011, 04:22 PM
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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This forum is just chock full of people better than others!

Read between the lines. Lighten up just a tad. Don't be so quick to point out how superior you are.
I am a Hunter's Safety instructor. I teach gun safety. I'm not about to indiscriminately throw lead around... My main point is and has always been the same: I'm trying to instill the notion that your single shot muzzle loading flintlock pistol just may not be the bad azz weapon you think it is. You may just need more than 5 rounds. If you have 5 and need six, you can be just as dead with that super-cool retro throwback wheel gun.

So you are a more careful shot with your single shot 20 gauge. Don't you think that is a little different than this self-defense scenario? Maybe someone takes your daughter and is driving away, and there you are trying to stop the getaway car... Do you want to try to shoot the tires out with your single shot flintlock or your 5 shot wheel gun or do you want a M-16 with a 30 round mag and two more mags on your hip?

Or maybe you'd take care and not shoot at the getaway car at all for fear you may hit someone with a stray round while your daughter is taken away to some desolate field and slaughtered.

Self defense is self defense. Take care of yourself. You're not going to keep from shooting the bad guy who's on top of your wife jamming a knife repeatedly into her chest because you're in a busy mall. You aim, you shoot. This isn't deer hunting and you need to be sure your background is clear or you can't have a venison sausage for Christmas. This is saving your loved ones from losing their own lives. And your single shot is woefully inadequate for that.
You teach "HUNTER SAFETY?" Well you do have me there I don't teach "Hunter safety."
I am however a 100% disabled Marine NCO combat Vet who qualified with everything the Marines has from .22 to .50 Ma Duce. In Vietnam, as a Grunt, I had my choice of BUG's. I chose to carry a Model 60. Seemed to serve me well for 2 years in a combat zone but then again it wasn't "HUNTER SAFETY." Maybe the demands, and rigors, of your "HUNTER SAFETY" course would have changed my mind.
We have the VFW where we get together to swap stories. Do you have a "HUNTER SAFETY" organization where you swap tales of ambush, sappers, boobie traps by angry squirrels, and landing in a hot LZ full of angry bunnies where only by the grace of God, and a high cap pistol, kept you from being overrun by woodland creatures?
Do the nightmares keep coming back for you also?
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  #170  
Old 11-18-2011, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
Carrying a single shot so when the bad guys attack you'll concentrate on better shooting is just .... Grrrrrrrr.
Here is some information on the Model 66 that I mentioned in my post, which you seem to be unfamiliar with since you kept calling it a single shot or "flintlock".

The ultimate Model 19/66 Combat Magnum thread

Before I bow out of this I want to remind you that you, yourself said that you fully expect to miss with the first five shots.
I didn't..

One last thing, please be careful if ever trying to save your wife or daughter/child from the type of attacks you mentioned.
You wouldn't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water."

Good luck my friend!
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:34 PM
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That isn't true. Not only was the P-47 one of the fastest fighters in WW2, in terms of air combat was not outclassed by any other piston driven fighter. The P-47D, FW-190, P-51D, F6F and F4U are regarded together as the best mass produced piston driven fighters of the war. The P-47 also shot down more enemy aircraft than any other US fighter.
You'll have to excuse my statement, then. I got that information from gentlemen who are friends of my neighbor, all who belong to a WWII Pilots Association who were actually flying them in combat. I guess when they told me that the P47 was more sluggish than the P51, they were wrong. Thanks for enlightening me, and I'll make sure to let them know.
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogilvyspecial View Post
Here is some information on the Model 66 that I mentioned in my post, which you seem to be unfamiliar with since you kept calling it a single shot or "flintlock".

The ultimate Model 19/66 Combat Magnum thread

Before I bow out of this I want to remind you that you, yourself said that you fully expect to miss with the first five shots.
I didn't..

One last thing, please be careful if ever trying to save your wife or daughter/child from the type of attacks you mentioned.
You wouldn't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water."

Good luck my friend!


What's worse is he claims to be a hunting instructor. If, as he said " MISS THE FIRST 5-6 SHOTS" he has got to be hunting bunnies with a Gattling gun
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  #173  
Old 11-18-2011, 06:00 PM
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Seemed to serve me well for 2 years in a combat zone but then again it wasn't "HUNTER SAFETY."
Sure it was. Just a different type of prey...

And Welcome Home.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:42 PM
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You teach "HUNTER SAFETY?" Well you do have me there I don't teach "Hunter safety."
I am however a 100% disabled Marine NCO combat Vet who qualified with everything the Marines has from .22 to .50 Ma Duce. In Vietnam, as a Grunt, I had my choice of BUG's. I chose to carry a Model 60. Seemed to serve me well for 2 years in a combat zone but then again it wasn't "HUNTER SAFETY." Maybe the demands, and rigors, of your "HUNTER SAFETY" course would have changed my mind.
We have the VFW where we get together to swap stories. Do you have a "HUNTER SAFETY" organization where you swap tales of ambush, sappers, boobie traps by angry squirrels, and landing in a hot LZ full of angry bunnies where only by the grace of God, and a high cap pistol, kept you from being overrun by woodland creatures?
Do the nightmares keep coming back for you also?
First off, I'm not impressed if that was your goal. I served overseas, it's going to take more than that to impress me.
We don't have .22's in the Army. At least not that I ever saw. And my model 60 was called an M60, I don't think they are the same.

I'm disappointed that you would take such a view of someone donating their time to teaching people weapon safety and handling firearms in public. Perhaps if you would take some of your knowledge and donate your time to teach kids between the ages of 10 and 80 the basics of weapon safety you may appreciate what I do to help further the use and familiarity of weapons by the general public.

There's life outside of the VFW....
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post

Maybe someone takes your daughter and is driving away, and there you are trying to stop the getaway car... Do you want to try to shoot the tires out with your single shot flintlock or your 5 shot wheel gun or do you want a M-16 with a 30 round mag and two more mags on your hip?

Or maybe you'd take care and not shoot at the getaway car at all for fear you may hit someone with a stray round while your daughter is taken away to some desolate field and slaughtered.

Self defense is self defense. Take care of yourself. You're not going to keep from shooting the bad guy who's on top of your wife jamming a knife repeatedly into her chest because you're in a busy mall. You aim, you shoot.

I think this thread is absolutely stupid except for 18DAI's excellent post, and I am done with it.
No one has promoted the use of flint lock firearms here. We're all talking about repeating handguns using metallic cartridges.


Visions of grandeur (to use another line from "Star Wars.")


So, your going to use your hi-cap semi-auto to shower down on the get-away car with your daughter inside it?

Most here are physically capable of decisively clobbering the knife-wielding assailant from off of their wives without resorting to use of any firearm at all if we are to give consideration to this particular scenario. I'm a big ol' boy, yet not some tough guy, but I could and would mop the floor with the knife-wielding assailant.

You might need to be done with this thread.

"...like a moth drawn to a flame..."

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Old 11-19-2011, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
Oh good Lord nogoodnamesleft.... Now you'll have sirrduke starting a thread asking which is better, throwing stars or blow darts for pinning bad guys against the wall....

I'm more of a wussy than all you tough guy 5-shots-is-all-I'll-ever-need guys.

Give me at least a dozen rounds and maybe I'll be able to defend myself. Shots to the head? Probably not. I'll have hands shaking, bowels quaking, knees knocking and mind blocking terror going on. My first 5 shots may be just to orient the barrel in the right direction....
You're a military veteran and a firearms instructor, and you need to expend half your ammo just to get on target? And we should listen to you? Where will those first 5 rounds go that miss? Through your walls or up the block into someone else's home? You're teaching firearms safety and advocating spraying at a car driving an innocent person away? Are you one of those guys who posts his ideas on youtube? I'll bet you are. Lots of those guys call themselves professionals, too. They obviously are not. I could ask you if you're for real, but I aready know the answer.

And by the way, military or police experience doesn't make you an automatic expert. Not all cops or soldiers are front line guys out there rocking and rolling. I've worked with cops that I wouldn't want to be around if they were holding a Red Ryder BB gun. You sound like a 16 year old kid playing Call of Duty in between popping his zits.

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Old 11-20-2011, 12:01 AM
Springfeildkid585 Springfeildkid585 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
First off, I'm not impressed if that was your goal. I served overseas, it's going to take more than that to impress me.
We don't have .22's in the Army. At least not that I ever saw. And my model 60 was called an M60, I don't think they are the same.

I'm disappointed that you would take such a view of someone donating their time to teaching people weapon safety and handling firearms in public. Perhaps if you would take some of your knowledge and donate your time to teach kids between the ages of 10 and 80 the basics of weapon safety you may appreciate what I do to help further the use and familiarity of weapons by the general public.

There's life outside of the VFW....
I think his point came back to you being admittedly incompetent with a firearm and that a revolver served him just fine in the combat zone. Also the Ruger Mk 1 .22 saw service in Vietnam. You talk about need of hicap autos for the just in case scenarios, yet if you really believe you're large gang of terrorist scenarios, when you hear something go bump in the night you send your unarmed wife to become a hostage.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Springfeildkid585 View Post
I think his point came back to you being admittedly incompetent with a firearm and that a revolver served him just fine in the combat zone. Also the Ruger Mk 1 .22 saw service in Vietnam. You talk about need of hicap autos for the just in case scenarios, yet if you really believe you're large gang of terrorist scenarios, when you hear something go bump in the night you send your unarmed wife to become a hostage.


His unarmed wife is probably SAFER with the BG's than with someone who "sends 5-6 rounds off just to get on target."
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:30 AM
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Holy cow!
This thread is starting to remind me of Glock Talk....
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  #180  
Old 11-20-2011, 12:31 PM
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I have a 1950's registered magnum and am thinking of upgrading it with an internal lock...any opinions on the best way to get this done?
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  #181  
Old 11-20-2011, 12:41 PM
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Send it to me and l'll install it for you. It will take me three or four years. Don't worry... I'll take good care of it while l'm waiting for the IL to show up...
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:12 PM
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Holy cow!
This thread is starting to remind me of Glock Talk....

MY GOD!!!!!!!!! You are right. I'am out of here!
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  #183  
Old 11-20-2011, 03:54 PM
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I think the flaming has gotten a bit intense - where are the moderators? Two of you need to have 15-yard penalties and loss of down.

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Old 11-20-2011, 04:16 PM
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I think the flaming has gotten a bit intense - where are the moderators? Two of you need to have 15-yard penalties and loss of down.

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Old 11-20-2011, 05:05 PM
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I think the flaming has gotten a bit intense - where are the moderators?

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Say any word that uses an asterisk and they'll be here in 5 seconds.
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Old 11-20-2011, 06:02 PM
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My sons a Rugger. Lets get it on. I'll bring the beer and splints/bandages, somebody else call the ambulance.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:39 PM
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Spoon you! I'll bring the whole ****** squad! There'll be**** to pay when the **** and the **** arrives.
Then we'll all sing Kumbya and drink some ***** and then
the **** will really *** the ***.
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  #188  
Old 11-20-2011, 11:26 PM
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My sons a Rugger.
My son's a rugger for the University of Alabama; didn't get enough concussions playing football in high school I guess.
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Old 11-20-2011, 11:39 PM
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My son's a rugger for the University of Alabama; didn't get enough concussions playing football in high school I guess.
Even with the upsides the head when they spoon up
they still want more contact! Gotta love the American
way! Hard heads and hard hearts. We love a good fight.
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  #190  
Old 11-21-2011, 02:51 AM
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I play wing by choice but have been working my way through the backs and played lock for one match. Love the intensity. It's the one sport I've ever been involved in in-which I've seen two guys get into a fist fight and have a beer together after the match.
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  #191  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:24 AM
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Which is better?

Why not ask the FBI, CIA, Navy seals, Army Rangers, Military, and Secret Service, along with a couple million law enforcement officers who depend on their weapon to save their life every day and see what they carry?
I had two brothers in law enforcement, one of which recommended a revolver. I now have three revolvers. Each time I have been to the range, I have seen a SA malfunction, mostly because it was not new, the magazine or something. My revolvers have never malfunctioned. Since each has only five
rounds, I carry two of them, one in a pocket holster, the other in a paddle holster. This serves two purposes. I can place my hand on the pocket S&W 642 without someone knowing it, if
someone comes up to me in a parking lot, without drawing.
To access my primary I have to pull my clothes back to draw it.
I tested for qual with the SA but next time I think I will just use
my revolvers.
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  #192  
Old 11-23-2011, 07:37 PM
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I am with you on your decision with a revolver. A lot less problematic than a pistol and easier to use in an emergency.
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:00 PM
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Wow. Everybody has their own preference.

I own and carry a variety. "Average" clothing finds me with a Model 36. Other times it's a 92FS IWB. Yet other clothing configurations might find me with anything from a 4" 686 or 64 all the way down to a Bobcat in .22LR.

But hey, I've chosen to limit the calibers I own due to cost and ability to reload. This allows me to practice A LOT. So I tend to hit what I'm aiming at every time. (.38/.357, 9mm, & .22LR).

As has been said; 'the gun you have vs the gun you don't have', and, 'the gun you can always hit the target with' - whatever that is for you personally, then that is your best choice. I own and carry both revolvers and SA.
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  #194  
Old 11-26-2011, 05:44 PM
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Both work but if you need more than 6 rounds you are in deep kimchi!Use the Revolver or Pistol to fight your way to a long gun!
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:10 PM
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Revolver for self defense, my primary carry is a 60-3, three inch military sights, with appropriate ammo. Combat is a different story. Scat bag harness is packed with a full frame Witness in .38 super with 18 round mags. I practice with both.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:40 PM
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I was LEO for over 30 years. My last 23 as a member of a full time SWAT team. I have carried both revolvers and semiautos.
Revolvers were 4" and 6 1/2" Mod 29's with 44 Mag ammo, S&W Mod 25's 6 1/2" and 6", in 45 ACP, semiautos, Custom 1911's and my last few years Glock 17's.

I started with the 44 Mags, then went to the 1911's. I would have stayed with the 1911's, except for the fact that some Chiefs would change what we were allowed to carry. So when semiautos were disallowed, I went back to the Mod 29.
Later another new Chief...
When the big Mags were disallowed, still no "automatics", I went to the Mod 25 in 45 ACP, first with 1/2 Moon clips, later with full moon clips.
I carried this gun for years on the SWAT team...
Another new Chief...
Then the BIG bores were disallowed, but we were alowed to go to 9mm Semiautos. I was involved in the Dept. Test Program. I tested the SIG 226, Beretta 92, and the Glock 17. I chose the Glock 17 as I am not a fan of DA SA.

The Glock 17's were excellent pistols, I carried 2 of them 100% of the time.
They were not 1911's but they did work great. I am not a fan of the 9mm, do not get me started there.

I felt most comfortable with the 44's and 45's as work guns. They work much better in actual shootings than the 9mm.
The times I had to use the 9mm it worked OK...
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  #197  
Old 11-26-2011, 07:50 PM
NE450No2 NE450No2 is offline
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THE DAY, I retired I went back to the 1911 in 45 ACP.

I did practice quite a bit for several months, to the toon of several thousand rounds, even going to a couple of "special schools" with my 1911's where the ammo was furnished, so I could get back up to "snuff" with my Beloved 1911...

I feel most comfortable with a 45 ACP in 1911, with a BUNCH of extra magazines, over any other handgun.
It shoots the best, fastest, most accurate, quickest to reload, for me that any other handgun.
However, I still carry my S&W Bodyguard as a No2, for those times where I might be in contact with the bad guy...

Many times, If I am on a hunting trip, I will carry a 4" S&W 44 Mag, with speed loaders, and speed strips as my primary CHL while traveling, with Urban ammo. I will be carrying the 44 in the field so I would rather have one of them as a spare, which cuts down on the amount and kinds of ammo I need to carry.

I still carry the Bodyguard, or on my last trip the 2" Mod 34 as a No2.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:57 PM
NE450No2 NE450No2 is offline
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I feel the semiauto gives me more "staying" power and is a Force Multiplier, because of its quicker reloads. This is important when traveling alone, especially if you encounter multiple bad guys...

However if a person is not very well trained with semiautos, I think they are better off with a revolver. I still think they should carry extra ammo.

Also most civilian encounters will occur when a person, or persons are wanting you do do something you do not want to do, and they will be at conversational distances, or you might already be grappling with them.
A revolver is better in these cases most of the time, even for a highly trained person.

Which is why I always carry a revolver even if my Primary is the 1911...

The bottom line is, you should carry the one you are most comfortable with, with consideration to what kinds of threats you are most likely to face.
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Old 11-27-2011, 01:27 PM
MaximumLawman MaximumLawman is offline
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Is it "spray and pray", for those who like to use that expression, when someone uses a half dozen or so rounds from their hi cap semi-auto to find out if what their target is hiding behind is cover or merely concealment? Can you or would you do this with a revolver?
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Old 11-27-2011, 02:29 PM
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keith44spl keith44spl is offline
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The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better? The Revolver vs. the Pistol for self defense.  Which is better?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximumLawman View Post
Is it "spray and pray", for those who like to use that expression, when someone uses a half dozen or so rounds from their hi cap semi-auto to find out if what their target is hiding behind is cover or merely concealment? Can you or would you do this with a revolver?

That's the sixty-four dollar question...I was in this little shootin match one time, seem like a bunch of times.

Anyhows, this cat opens up on us in a stairwell.
The two fellers with me, an I.C.E. Marshall and a Trooper shoot back with their Glocks.

Im here to tell ya, 'em boys was a layin down sumkinda return fire. Neither side drew any blood.
I just held my ground, didn't want to waste my revolver cartridges.

We hemmed this guy up and I got an opening, put the front sight on him, squeezed one off and that was that...As they say.

So, I reckon by fire may or may not work.

Si Amigo,
Dave
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