Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Concealed Carry & Self Defense
o

Notices

Concealed Carry & Self Defense All aspects of Concealed and Open Carry, Home and Self Defense.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:13 PM
wxl wxl is offline
Member
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 57
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???

This may have been covered before but did not turn anything up with 'Search'.

What is the legality of wallet holsters with trigger finger hole so you can shoot your firearm without removing it from the holster? I was always under impression this was not legal. Now see all kinds advertised. Is there a fine point in design that makes some of these now legal or are they pushing the edge?

I know pocket holsters and wallet holsters where you draw the firearm to fire are OK. I ofter pocket carry a .380 when I do not feel like IWB my Colt Defender, Colt CCO or a baby Glock.

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:45 PM
38-44HD45 38-44HD45 is offline
Absent Comrade
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lubbock, TX, US
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 2
Liked 49 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Try searching "AOW." (As in Any Other Weapon.)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-20-2011, 07:10 PM
wxl wxl is offline
Member
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 57
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Thanks on the AOW. Short search seems to say license/tax required much like I what I thought was the standard. Does not seem to be mentioned as an issue in all the new ads for this type holster.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-20-2011, 08:19 PM
The Last Standing Knight The Last Standing Knight is offline
Member
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 736
Liked 1,410 Times in 535 Posts
Default

I purchased one for my LCP...to me it is comfortable to hold...more so than the pistol without it. The ENTIRE SLIDE IS EXPOSED and only the frame of the pistol is covered and has two finger holes.

I cannot find anything in BATFE's website in regards to this type of holster falling into the AOW category...so I throw this out there to the forum.

Would this be considered an AOW?
__________________
The Last Standing Knight
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-20-2011, 08:29 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
SWCA Member
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of Calif
Posts: 4,642
Likes: 1,226
Liked 5,984 Times in 2,132 Posts
Default

Wallet holsters are illegal in California. I don't know about other jurisdictions, it is a state thing.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-20-2011, 11:14 PM
sipowicz's Avatar
sipowicz sipowicz is offline
Member
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gun lovin\' Hollywood Ca.
Posts: 10,238
Likes: 7,741
Liked 18,707 Times in 3,792 Posts
Default

A good alternative is a pocket holster with an exposed trigger. This way, even if it comes out with the gun, you are good to go....
__________________
Thirty characters. Exactly...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-21-2011, 12:30 PM
wxl wxl is offline
Member
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: South Texas
Posts: 57
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Pocket holster with exposed trigger defeats my purpose for a holster, firearm accidentally discharging. Might as well carry with no holster.

Apparently what seems to be the BATF ruling is if the firearm is disguised by the holster and can be fired without removing, it is an AOW. If the design exposes sufficient parts of the firearm to show it is a firearm (exposed slide, grip, etc) it is legal.

No guaranty your local LEO or BATF will agree on your particular wallet holster. I still do not like the idea of the exposed trigger on the wallet holster but might be less chance of AD in the back pocket compared to a loose front pocket where you might accidentally drop other things into that pocket.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-21-2011, 03:22 PM
38-44HD45 38-44HD45 is offline
Absent Comrade
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Lubbock, TX, US
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 2
Liked 49 Times in 30 Posts
Default

Wxl, I think that you have correctly interpreted the batmen's position on the issue.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-21-2011, 04:20 PM
hobby-gunsmith's Avatar
hobby-gunsmith hobby-gunsmith is offline
US Veteran
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Port Richey, Florida
Posts: 909
Likes: 721
Liked 454 Times in 224 Posts
Default wallet holster

This area is a bit complicated. A pistol, to be a "pistol, under federal law, must also have a handle ("short stock") set at an angle to the barrel, and below the barrel. Therefore, the law currently does not define a pen gun as an NFA weapon because the gun is hinged, and the hinged portion is designed to be bent away from the barrel before it can fire. Thus, the hinged portion becomes the "Handle" which is set below, and at an angle to the barrel. In April 2005 when ATF applied to change the defination of "pistol" to eliminate pen guns, wallet guns, belt buckle guns, and pager guns, the chnage would affect 27 CFR 479.11, but to date - nothing's happened. Assuming your once legal firearm suddenly becomes an NFA weapon, you will have a grace period to register it as "any other weapon". So, for now, you're OK. To make it simple, if you have any weapon that discharges a shell by use of an explosive, the weapon can be concealed on your person, and that weapon does not hve the normal configuration of a pistol or revolver - it probably is "any other weapon" under federal law. Similiarly, a derringer that can be fired from within a concealing holster becomes "any other weapon" only when placed in such a holster, (wallet Gun), because the angled grip extending from the barrel is no longer visible. Same thing with a gun rigged to be discharged from inside a briefcase. As long as the handle is set at an angle slightly below the barrel. Even that slight angled grip to the barrel brought it within the definition of a pistol, according an ATF ruling. However, if the definition ever changes - it"s "any other weapon". So, if you have a derringer with a special wallet holster, are you illegal? Sort of! Once you put the two together ATF says you consider then as a "unit". The unit has now lost the "angled grip" it should have to be a pistol. You have a potential ten year federal felony! 26USC 5871. Hope this helps. It is a lot to digest and it is not worth the hassel.

Nick

1
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-23-2013, 12:50 PM
rayb rayb is offline
US Veteran
Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ??? Wallet Holster with trigger Finger Hole ???  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas Panhandle
Posts: 541
Likes: 240
Liked 380 Times in 103 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobby-gunsmith View Post
This area is a bit complicated. A pistol, to be a "pistol, under federal law, must also have a handle ("short stock") set at an angle to the barrel, and below the barrel. Therefore, the law currently does not define a pen gun as an NFA weapon because the gun is hinged, and the hinged portion is designed to be bent away from the barrel before it can fire. Thus, the hinged portion becomes the "Handle" which is set below, and at an angle to the barrel. In April 2005 when ATF applied to change the defination of "pistol" to eliminate pen guns, wallet guns, belt buckle guns, and pager guns, the chnage would affect 27 CFR 479.11, but to date - nothing's happened. Assuming your once legal firearm suddenly becomes an NFA weapon, you will have a grace period to register it as "any other weapon". So, for now, you're OK. To make it simple, if you have any weapon that discharges a shell by use of an explosive, the weapon can be concealed on your person, and that weapon does not hve the normal configuration of a pistol or revolver - it probably is "any other weapon" under federal law. Similiarly, a derringer that can be fired from within a concealing holster becomes "any other weapon" only when placed in such a holster, (wallet Gun), because the angled grip extending from the barrel is no longer visible. Same thing with a gun rigged to be discharged from inside a briefcase. As long as the handle is set at an angle slightly below the barrel. Even that slight angled grip to the barrel brought it within the definition of a pistol, according an ATF ruling. However, if the definition ever changes - it"s "any other weapon". So, if you have a derringer with a special wallet holster, are you illegal? Sort of! Once you put the two together ATF says you consider then as a "unit". The unit has now lost the "angled grip" it should have to be a pistol. You have a potential ten year federal felony! 26USC 5871. Hope this helps. It is a lot to digest and it is not worth the hassel.

Nick

1
So say you buy that neat little derringer holster at the gun show, one that looks like a wallet, had finger holes for firing, and is really a holster, now what?

If I understand your post, if you then go out and buy a derringer for your new holster, they become a "unit" when you put them together. The unit then becomes "any other weapon" and requires registration as such via BATFE Form 4 (assuming 4 is the correct form).

It would seem that if you own both pieces, better keep them far away from each other as in two seperate houses or some such, until such time as you have approval from the BATFE; vis a Form (? 4 ?).

Do I understand what you posted correctly? I also understand that the BATFE may interpret everything differenty depending on who you talk to.

rayb
__________________
"cumplo pero no obedezco"

Last edited by rayb; 12-23-2013 at 12:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
380, colt, concealed, glock

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Talon Wallet holster M&P380 GoBigblue Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 0 08-08-2015 04:24 PM
Holster with trigger finger retention latch? Farmer17 The Lounge 11 07-05-2014 02:14 AM
A very interesting wallet holster fat tom Gun Leather & Carry Gear 8 05-30-2014 12:38 AM
Talon Wallet Holster for S&W Bodyguard 380 shootinbil Concealed Carry & Self Defense 5 11-03-2013 02:46 AM
Leather for wallet holster for LCP + Lasermax? LSUDVM Concealed Carry & Self Defense 7 01-07-2013 09:23 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:25 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)