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Old 01-06-2012, 11:13 AM
99mikegt 99mikegt is offline
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Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense?  
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Default Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense?

This topic may have already been beaten to death, but I'll ask it anyway. Has anyone ever had to draw down on someone or something that was threatening their life or their family members life? I'm new to this forum and to carrying. Everyone talks about the worst case scenarios, prepares for the worst , trains,etc... But has anyone ever experienced it? I live in ny so I don't even know when and if your justified to pull the weapon.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:34 AM
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No, and I hope that I never do.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:37 AM
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Yes=it was a wild stallion. Didn't have to fire (so, I don't know if that counts or not).

As a guide, I had my pistol in my hand for possible defense many times-both for wild pigs and poachers.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:52 AM
99mikegt 99mikegt is offline
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Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense?  
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At what point is a person justified to ward off potential threats? If someone is following my wife and baby and I out into a parking lot, and we are being harrased, can you draw on him and tell him to get away?

I'm not looking for trouble but would like to know why others opinions are on this issue
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:28 PM
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the gray area stuff ....
you can draw on him provided you have a gun ... might not be legal though.
but then, what are you looking to accomplish, your family kept safe? or brownie points toward sainthood?
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:29 PM
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Came close with a couple of dogs but didn't have to draw.
One backed down on its own. One was controlled by the owner.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:43 PM
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Only once, but it was a bear that I was dealing with and not a human.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:59 PM
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Once, but not for a two legged critter, I was out during archery season and walking down an old logging road atop a steep ridge. I stopped to peek over the ridge and got the surprise of my life. A mountain lion coming up the deer trail right at me, it was oblivious to my presence, had my bow in one hand and couldn't decide whether to pull my phone out to take a picture or my pistol. I decided on the pistol, whistled a couple of times to get the cat's attention and it backed off and went the other way. According to the PA game commission there are no lions in central PA. Yeh, right.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99mikegt View Post
At what point is a person justified to ward off potential threats? If someone is following my wife and baby and I out into a parking lot, and we are being harrased, can you draw on him and tell him to get away?

I'm not looking for trouble but would like to know why others opinions are on this issue
You don't indicate your location, so it's hard to answer without knowing what your state law(s) have to say. Even then, it's not an easy question...the answer can depend on circumstances, etc.

As far as me having to draw and/or use a weapon in self-defense (and I mean with or toward another human being) no, I haven't. I fervently hope and pray I never do, either. If the need arises, though, I'd rather have the means to defend myself or my loved ones, than regret that I didn't.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:12 PM
99mikegt 99mikegt is offline
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Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense?  
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the gray area stuff ....
you can draw on him provided you have a gun ... might not be legal though.
but then, what are you looking to accomplish, your family kept safe? or brownie points toward sainthood?
I don't necessarily understand your question. What am I looking to accomplish?

I just want to swing my gun around in the air so I can feel good. Is that what your looking for?

I have a real question and was hoping for some real input, but thanks anyway.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:24 PM
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yep, when walking my dog one night a LARGE loose Rottweiler charged my dog and I. I pulled my PPS put the sights on his melon and waited. his idiot owner came out screaming "dont shoot dont shoot!"...my only reply was "keep that horse on a leash".
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 99mikegt View Post
I don't necessarily understand your question. What am I looking to accomplish?

I just want to swing my gun around in the air so I can feel good. Is that what your looking for?

I have a real question and was hoping for some real input, but thanks anyway.
You misunderstood what venomballistics was asking you. Many of us who carry would rather violate the letter of the law and stay alive then to follow the letter and end up dead. The expression is "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6".
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:00 PM
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i totally agree with you thndrchiken on the cougars in PA i have seen them and so have some of my other friends. and the question the game commission always asks is you sure it was not a bobcat and you just think to yourself no dumb *** the three foot freakin tail told me i was not a bobcat
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:14 PM
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although pulling your weapon is a serious commitment, and I wouldn't want to have it out without any intent to use it. It seems that doing so would possibly escalate a situation to a level that it may not have gotten to otherwise
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:56 PM
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Get a copy of Mass Ayob's "Gravest Extreme" and read it cover to cover. Although a little dated it provides excellent guidance for someone like you. Another alternative might be to take an NRA course or ask for assistance from your local LE agency. Please remember that your weapon is an absolute last resort and you should never pull it out on anyone unless you are justified in shooting them.

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Old 01-06-2012, 04:14 PM
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Yes, in the defense of my life and the lives of my wife and (then) small children. It was an unprovoked attack by a knife-wielding thug in a parking lot. Unfortunately, I had little room to retreat and got cut up some. The attack, however, stopped. As far as I'm concerned, you don't draw unless you intend to shoot, and you don't shoot unless you intend to stop an attack. If the attacker dies, it's on him/her.

Yes, I have been accused of being cold-blooded about it. My only nightmares are when it replays and I can't seem to find my revolver.

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Old 01-06-2012, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 99mikegt View Post
I don't necessarily understand your question. What am I looking to accomplish?

I just want to swing my gun around in the air so I can feel good. Is that what your looking for?

I have a real question and was hoping for some real input, but thanks anyway.
well now .. we're starting to drill it down a little ...
what you'd have done right there might be referred to as brandishing a weapon. which is to the letter of the law, a violation in many areas.
But thats what we end up with in the gray areas of self defense, the potential for violations.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:23 PM
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Yes, in the defense of my life and the lives of my wife and (then) small children. It was an unprovoked attack by a knife-wielding thug in a parking lot. Unfortunately, I had little room to retreat and got cut up some. The attack, however, stopped. As far as I'm concerned, you don't draw unless you intend to shoot, and you don't shoot unless you intend to stop an attack. If the attacker dies, it's on him/her.

Yes, I have been accused of being cold-blooded about it. My only nightmares are when it replays and I can't seem to find my revolver.

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In the state of Utah you would be justified in shooting the assailant as you were threatend with a weapon.
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:56 PM
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In the state of Utah you would be justified in shooting the assailant as you were threatend with a weapon.
Where I was, the police asked if there was anything they could do for me and gave me my EDC back once the paramedics finished bandaging my cut up hand.

"HOMICIDE, n. The slaying of one human being by another. There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy,..." - Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary

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Old 01-06-2012, 06:17 PM
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Plenty of weekend warriors get in trouble pulling their Roscoe out when they should not have. You need to study up on the law in your state.

Really easy to pull it thinking you'll scare someone off, only to have them take it away from you as you weren't actually prepared to shoot someone. Dont pull it unless you are (theoretically legally) prepared to destroy the subject target. You can turn a so-so situation into a bad one if you end up in a wrestling match while holding your pistol.

As noted above, improper brandishing / display can lead to a night in jail or even a felony type charge like aggravated assault w a firearm.

Study!!!
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:21 PM
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In the state of Utah you would be justified in shooting the assailant as you were threatend with a weapon.
which is something to think about ... if our actions can be interpreted as brandishing a weapon ... we become a legit target. Do not for a moment underestimate a perps capacity for creative interpretation
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:41 PM
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Yes, on a few occasions, and I was awfully glad to be armed. In one, a car full of "yutes" accosted my girl friend and myself while we were on an evening walk around the block. At the time, Texas did not have a CHL provision except for "bona-fide travelers". The police had a wide degree of latitude in interpreting whether a traveler was "bona-fide" or not. When they drove their car across our pathway, I told the girl friend to run and hide in the tree line, and then I drew my Colt Government Model on them and told them to "halt". I'm sure I could have gotten a "brandishing" charge quite easily, and that probably would have been my least serious charge. As it was, I think the little dears got the point and the threat was neutralized.

On another occasion, I had a home invader late one night. Long story that I won't bore ya'll with, but it turned out to be a bad joke that could have resulted in a fatality. When he broke through my front door, I was bringing the GM up to bear, and had an excellent front sight hold on his chest and was already starting to mash the creep out of the trigger. Thank God for CQB training in the Army as I was able to issue good commands that he followed to the letter. My confidence increased exponentially after I had him in a leaning rest against the front door with his back to me and I told him that I was calling the police, and that if he moved, I was going to kill him. His response was for me to go ahead and call the police and to ask them to "please hurry".

For me, a .45ACP semi-auto or revolver is an excellent tool for potentially bad social situations.

Best of luck,

Dave
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:02 PM
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Once, in 4 years of carrying. The wife and I were walking a new puppy around the block, when a huge dog jumped it's fence and came straight for our little Molly. My wife scooped up Molly at the same time I drew my weapon. I had pressure on the trigger when the attacking dog stopped, followed by it's owner yelling for it to stop. The owner jumped the fence to retrieve his dog while I was still holding my pistol on it.
In Texas, I was perfectly legal to draw.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:35 AM
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OK, now that I think I understand the question, my criteria for drawing my weapon are:
1) I will not be tied up.
2) people start getting shot (Mine or others)
3) I am attacked with a weapon or am sure (in my mind) that I will be.
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:26 AM
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Four times, three as a civilian. The one on duty involved a couple of thieves who made it clear that I was going to be run over if I didn't get out of their way to the exit. I pointed the 38 at the driver's nose as he approached, and he changed his direction. No shots fired. (The local cops told me I should have shot him anyway.)

The other three involved two attempted robberies and an attempted carjacking. The robbers were following me on foot and I outflanked them, when they re-acquired me I was pointing a gun at their head from a couple yards away. Both were disarmed (one had a BB gun, the other had an empty RG 38) and were sent packing, no shots fired again.

The attempted carjacking involved two miscreants, one with a large stainless steel butter knife. As he leaned closer and reached for the (locked) doorhandle, my .380 clunked into his forehead. Things got very polite, the knife was quickly tossed away, and I left. No shots fired. The other guy apparently vanished into thin air when the gun came into play, I never did figure out where he went.

The first incident occurred at 3AM, the attempted robberies between 7 and 9AM, and the attempted carjacking at 4pm on a beautiful fall afternoon in a busy area four blocks from home.

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Old 01-07-2012, 03:28 AM
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Did'nt actually draw it on someone but once as i was driving into the parking lot of a local convienience store i noticed a man had a woman pinned against the hood of a car and had her in a kind of bearhug holding her very tightly and she was very obviously crying and trying to elude his grasp. I thought to myself, "domestic dispute",couple fighting, and just sat in my truck for minute to see how it was going to play out. After a couple of minutes of her trying to get away, there was no punches thrown by the way, her cries for help got to me. I Got out of my truck and at the same time made sure he saw me putting my model 66 in my belt from under the driver seat where i keep it. I approached him telling him to calm down and let her go. I got to within 10 feet of them all the while repeating to him to let her go. She started screaming, help me he's going to kill me.. But he had no weapon of any kind visible. So i told him i was going into the store to call the PD and he best be off. When i headed through the front door, all the while keeping a close eye on him, he jumped into his car parked close by and took off like a bat out of hell.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:20 AM
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Consider this..... If you point a gun at someone, they have the legal right to kill you. What would you do if someone pointed a gun at you?

Forget the law, use common sense. You'd better be damn sure you or someone's life is in danger before you draw.

Suppose the person you think is following you and your wife in a parking garage is a LEO walking to his car or heck even a drug dealer walking by. Either way drawing on them if going to have very grave consequences. Brandishing charges are the least of your worries.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:27 AM
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In Texas, you must be able to articulate that you were in fear of your life or grave bodily injury. And from the way I understand it, you're only justified in drawing your weapon if your justified to use it. The thing is that what one person considers to be justified, the other (LEO) may not. Then there's the "disparity of force" clause. If there's 3 of you and one of me, or if you're a small woman going up against a large man, you're justified.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:19 PM
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Good info here.
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:20 AM
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almost. i was putting gas in the car, wife and daughter in the car. i was the only car filling up and at the pump farthest away from the building. it was cold out, i was wearing my lined leather jacket and had my .380 in a pocket holser in the inside jacket pocket. a cadilac pulled in and parked near the gas station building entrance. 4 males exited the car and started walking towards me, they split into 2 groups and were coming towards me from 2 different angles. my wife tapped her window to let me know she thought that was suspicous. i reached my hand into my coat and placed my hand in the pocket with my gun. i never removed the gun from my pocket. i just stood there with my right hand in my coat pocket and my left hand was placing the fuel nozzle back on the pump as i was trying to get away from there asap. the group seemed to notice my hand in my coat as they abruptly stopped and went back to their car. i quickly got in my car and left the area making sure i wasnt being followed. my wife said that was realy odd the way the started approaching us and the way they turned back. afterwards, i was thinking maybe they just wanted directions, but the way they approached and the way they were dressed (i wont elaborate) was not normal behavior.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:23 AM
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Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense? Have you ever had to draw your weapon in defense?  
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Once, about 15 years ago. Saw a guy crossing the road headed straight for me while stopped at a stop light. He grabbed the door handle, which was locked then looked up to see a 357 pointed at his head. He changed his mind real quick like. ended up getting arrested about 5 minutes later for retail theft. Scared the daylights out of me though!
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  #32  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:24 AM
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The heck with the laws and how they may be interpreted. While
some may believe a person to be in violation of the law or, "what
a court might decide if you pull a gun in a dangerous situation",
i'll gladly be judged by 12 than carried by 6. All a person can do
is use common sence and hope that serves them well.
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  #33  
Old 01-08-2012, 08:24 AM
oldman45 oldman45 is offline
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I have drawn my sidearm on occasion but only used it twice.

That said, I do not feel state laws need to be of concern. Which is more important, your life, that of fmaily members or a state law? If you feel the absolute need to pull a gun, then you may be able to explain your actions later.

When I was in flight school, I was taught there is a certain point one reaches where they must either take off or abort. The same is true with carrying a sidearm. There is a time when it is too late to draw your weapon. A delay while thinking of laws, the taking of life or whatever can be deadly.

I often laugh at some that carry their guns in places that are difficult to reach. While none of us are Quick Draw McGraw, if you have a couple of armed thugs about to rob and beat you, rape your female accomplice, you need to get your weapon now and not 30 seconds from now. Ankle holsters will not provide that access. Fireams inside the bottom of a purse will not provide that access. A gun holstered inside a button down shirt will not provide that access.

People do not seriously consider what can happen once they get a carry permit. There are things that may or may not happen. You will either never need the gun or you will need it. If you never need it, then great. If you need it though, it will not be the time to think about laws, if you want to take the life of another, is the threat real or perceived and much more. It is also not the time to have a gun so well concealed that you spend seconds getting to it. While it may be easy to practice when not under stress and with an unloaded gun, in real life, it is much different. Pulling a gun or the use of such should not be taken lightly. I know several that carry but will admit to not being able to pull the trigger on someone.
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  #34  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:44 AM
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Oldman45, I am also a pilot and your analogy is a good one. There comes a point when you either make a landing or go around, take off or abort, stop trying to start that dead engine and commit to an off field landing.

It's the same with a weapon. Once you produce it that line should have been crossed and you should be willing to use it.

I believe producing a weapon can escalate a situation, but I am prepared for that to happen. I won't show a weapon to try and diffuse a situation, but if it does diffuse it, that would be great. If not, I'll use my weapon.
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  #35  
Old 01-08-2012, 12:13 PM
ImprovedModel56Fan ImprovedModel56Fan is online now
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Great post by oldman45!

If it is not already obvious from previous posts, there are some real advantages to pocket carry. Even a lightning-fast draw from the waist sometimes lacks the advantage that pocket carry has, that of telling the would-be perps that they may have chosen the wrong "victim." Of course, the fast-draw artist may also have ways of letting the perps know that he's armed, without actually showing the weapon.
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  #36  
Old 01-08-2012, 12:26 PM
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In the early 1980s I had a Doberman Pincher. A huge, friendly and impressive looking dog. I walked in the local stationary store with him (he was a welcome visitor there) and picked up a copy of the New York Times.

We walked out just as a young child (about 8 years old) walked by. They nearly collided with each other and both the dog and the child were startled. I didn't think much of it. My dog showed no agression. And I walked back to my car.

But apparently the child told his father that I sicced my dog on him. The father came at us with a ball peen hammer in his hand. I had my .38 Airweight out and held close to my side. The guy was yelling about me siccing my dog on his son.

I was able to reason with him and I never pointed the weapon at him. I don't know if he noticed. I had a 135 pound, 29" tall Doberman Pincher on a leash in my left hand. A major distraction.

But the whole thing diffused and he went away.

The whole event had ugly overtones. I'm white; the child was black. The father was just protecting his son; I was protecting myself.

A bad day was avoided. But it shows how easily a misunderstanding could blow up.
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  #37  
Old 01-08-2012, 12:33 PM
spoonltz28 spoonltz28 is offline
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I've had to draw my pistol once, during a car accident, the other guy came at me through an open window and started to beat on me while I was still in my car. I pulled my gun and he QUICKLY backed off, so I did not have to fire.

Once you are in a situation, you don't think about the laws, you think about saving your life. That guy was about 1/2 second from being shot in the head.

The LEO that arrived told the guy he was lucky, they would have shot him anyway.
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  #38  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:10 PM
99mikegt 99mikegt is offline
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Do you remove your weapon from its holster while in the car, for easier access? It seems reaching down to grab it would be difficult, unless it was a cross-draw to your weak side.
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  #39  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:16 PM
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depends on the situation ... extended trips Ill go to a two gun arrangement.
One under the seat and one on my person.
that avoids having to handle a gun at various rest and fuel stops.
short trips, it stays on me
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  #40  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:08 PM
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I have fired weapons (AGM-88 missiles) in Iraq in "defense", but they were much larger than what we are talking about here and didn't get "drawn".

I have never had to draw a hangun for self-defense. If I did that movement would likely be followed immediately with multiple shots. If I draw a weapons I plan to use it. The only theoretical exception would be if I was hiding from a threat (like in a closet or something) and drew it to be ready in case I was found but then wasn't found.

I have had someone draw a weapon on me. I was working in a bar in college. I was unarmed. A customer got in a fight with another one. I broke it up and kicked them both out. One of them came back about an hour later and walked up behind me while I was cleaning up. He said something and I turned around and he had a 686 .357 pointed at my head with the muzzle about 10 inches away, the hammer back. I know it was a 686 because it looked like a copy of my 686. He said "I could kill you right now". I calmly talked him down saying all kinds of BS, then called the cops when he left. This is one of 3 times in my life I actually felt like I was about to die.

Last edited by auburn2; 01-08-2012 at 03:12 PM.
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  #41  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:59 PM
24spenser 24spenser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99mikegt View Post
Do you remove your weapon from its holster while in the car, for easier access? It seems reaching down to grab it would be difficult, unless it was a cross-draw to your weak side.
NO. Google '1986 FBI Miami shootout'.
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  #42  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:19 PM
99mikegt 99mikegt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24spenser View Post
NO. Google '1986 FBI Miami shootout'.
wow- that was insane. Looks like Manauzzi should have kept his weapon secured. You dont think about a collision, and what can happen during one. Weapon goes flying, and you might as well not have ever had it in the first place. I'd rather take a second to draw than not have the option at all.

What a tragedy.I haven't read about this. Sounds like police and FBI around the world have learned something from it though.
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  #43  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:27 PM
24spenser 24spenser is offline
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^^ Yes, as sad a situation as that was, it led to major rethinking on many law enforcement fronts.
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  #44  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:35 PM
The Last Standing Knight The Last Standing Knight is offline
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I have come VERY very close on more than one occassion...and one occasion drew a Browning High Power out of my truck's glove box and pointed it at a guy who was trying to get into my drivers seat.

I usually wear clothing that conceals a small handgun in a pocket. If my alarm bells go off, I just slip my hands into my pockets just as if I was in a relaxed pose...the sidearm pointing towards the target with my full attention on the "opposing activity" while not looking like I am doing so.

No one...not even the "opposing party" is the wiser and I keep it that way.

Yes, there is a reason I am keeping this vague.
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  #45  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:40 PM
RIchardKinsey RIchardKinsey is offline
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I have pulled my gun in defence! You will draw and shoot the way you train!! I never remember reaching, or drawing the gun. The first thing I remember doing was getting a "site picture". He ran so fast I couldn't get a shot but he was seeking guidance from above as he ran.........
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  #46  
Old 01-08-2012, 06:15 PM
spoonltz28 spoonltz28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99mikegt View Post
Do you remove your weapon from its holster while in the car, for easier access? It seems reaching down to grab it would be difficult, unless it was a cross-draw to your weak side.
I am a leftie, it normally dosen't get in the way as I drive a pick up truck. But this happened while driving my sons car, I was carrying my newest gun, Keltec PF9, in my pocket. It was uncomfortable, so I moved it into the door pocket. As the guy was guy was hitting me throught the window, all I had to do was reach down.
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  #47  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:05 PM
Springfeildkid585 Springfeildkid585 is offline
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i had to draw on an individual armed with a knife. Knew him personally, he was off his meds. He was a few yards away. I sternly instructed him to drop it, he refused, I drew from my shoulder holster and leveled on his chest, kept my finger out of the trigger guard. I repeated my command, he complied and then attempted to choke me I restrained him with my left hand and kept the weapon extended away from his reach with my right, pushed him away, retreated and called for help. Got sick afterwards. Never want to be in that situation again. I think the best possible outcome is what was reached.
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  #48  
Old 01-09-2012, 01:28 AM
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Having the weapon accessible is pretty obvious, but often overlooked. I usually carry at 4:00 on my strong side, but in a car with a seat belt on, getting that gun out in a hurry is going to be durn near impossible. If I plan on being in a car in a bad area I'll opt for a shoulder holster if I have a choice ahead of time. I'm not a huge fan of ankle holsters but in a car they're a viable option.

When a scumbag decided to carjack me a few years ago, my Guardian Angel was on duty............I'd moved the .380 from the console of my car and shoved it under my leg two blocks before the trouble started, so I would remember to take it inside when I got home. I don't remember putting my hand on it when he pulled the knife......it was just a split-second thing. One second I'm looking at these two jokers walking up to my car, the next second it was aimed between his eyebrows from an inch away with the hammer halfway back.

If I'd had to dig that gun out from behind my right hip in a snug holster with a seat belt on, things would NOT have turned out so well. Keep it where you can get to it!
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  #49  
Old 01-09-2012, 10:50 AM
24spenser 24spenser is offline
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Another option is to mount a holster in the driver's compartment. Several fellas have done this on my truck forum. You have to remember to take the darn thing in with you though.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:15 PM
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elm_creek_smith elm_creek_smith is offline
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My second primary hand gun rides in a crossdraw holster that I can access even wearing a seat belt. Yes, I carry two primary hand guns.

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