NYPD Testing Gun-Scanning Technology « CBS New York

I don't conceal carry in NYC, but as a person with a lawful CCW Permit, I would have a big problem getting stopped and having my license demanded by police (presumably at gun point?) every time a cruiser equipped with this technology happened to drive past me on the street. Lawfully concealed means concealed... from the public as well as the police.

What will they think of next?

"Up to 16 Feet".............how useful is that?

Well, you have to think outside the box.

I think it's a good thing.

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Jorge

The Supreme Court has held that you do not have an expectation of privacy on a public street. A more conservative court may see it differently, but if you are carrying legally I fail to see the problem.

Couple of assumptions there: At this point in the technology, a cruiser would have a very difficult time detecting weapons as it passed you, especially given the crowds in NYC. More importantly, pat downs, physical or virtual, can only take place in the presence of articulable reasonable suspicion. However, it is possible under litigation that the courts could rule that the public's right not to be threatened by firearms outweighs an individual's rights not to be scanned without reasonable suspicion. This kind of ruling is similar to why law enforcement is able to conduct vehicle checkpoints where everyone has to show drivers licenses and so forth even though the police don't necessarily have reasonable suspicion to ask for them: the court's specific ruling went something like, the public's right to be free from driver's under the influence outweighed individual's rights not to be stopped without reasonable suspicion.

I would assert that an expectation of privacy is not exactly what would have standing in this issue; rather, it is the 4th Amendment right and protection from unreasonable search or seizure.*

*(the part of the Bill of Rights which, among other things, guards against unreasonable searches and seizures; "reasonable" searches are generally understood to be supported by probable cause).

Get a jacket with a "space blanket" liner, such as the Columbia "Titanium" line. By "terahertz" technology, they refer to far infrared into the microwave region. It may look like tin foil (hahaha), but the multi-layer metal/dielectric composition reflects infrared almost perfectly. Properly deployed, a space blanket is camouflage against FLIR too.

Bloomberg is hot on this scanning technology. It's part of his scheme to arrest everybody, then let the criminals go free (or run for re-election).

more like think outside the state

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it just needs more voltage

Basically, it's a warrant-less search without probably cause. Another erosion of our Constitutional rights in the name of "expediency" or "public safety."

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of freedom. It's the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves -William Pitt"

If there it probable cause, the LEO can pat down the suspect.

The problem I have with it is that there is no way for the police to distinguish from 15 ft. away whether the person carrying the concealed weapon is doing so lawfully (permit holder, plain clothes cop, etc.) or unlawfully (criminal). To determine this, the police will have to approach, stop, and question the individual. Police being police, they'll treat everyone like a criminal until that person can prove otherwise. The police do this based on their training and for their own safety.

If I were a lawful permit holder, I think being stopped on the street by police at random and treated like an armed criminal would get old really quickly. Especially in a gun-unfriendly city like NY. I'm sure you won't receive the white glove treatment.

And I wouldn't want to have to wear a space blanket under my shirt 365 days a year, either.

Is CC even legal in NYC? I thought only crooks and politicians (oops, same thing) can carry guns in NYC.

I don't like it. I can see pro-gun people carrying tin foil cut-outs of weapons under their shirts, maybe glue a tin foil Uzi on an undershirt.... It would drive the cops nuts and hopefully they'd ditch the new invasive technology.

The only people who can "qualify" to get a CCW in NYC are retired LEO's, Celebration, Actors, and FRIENDS OF THE MAYOR. Other than that, unless you have an unlimited amount of money to sue the City and an Attorney that will be willing to do it, GOOD LUCK!

I like that. No one has mentioned the 'slippery slope' that we've seen destroy this country for the last 50 years. Many consider the idea of slippery slopes 'conspiracy theory', but think about them having to register pistols in CA- speaking of states- and how they now must also register handguns. This one-step-at-a-time government intrusion is real, not a conspiracy.

Actually reasonable suspicion is the threshold. Less than full blown PC.

Hmmm, Constitution...Bill of Rights, where have I seen those, Oh yeah, now I remember, don't they use those for door mats at the white house?
Peace,
gordon

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better have that checked

GT you are so right- it's amazing how they all take the oath- when they run for election they want to represent us to PROTECT US. But soon as they say those words- "I swear to defend and support" that promise flies out the window. Sooner or later we're gonna have to stand up and fight for it- or continue to complain - and end up like Greece...or worse.

Why am I not surprised that this is happening in Bloomberg City.

I wouldn't be surprised if NY wanted to start requiring permit holders to have an RFID bio-chip implant that can be read from a distance. When a gun is detected the authorities will already know who the person is and that they're permitted, or not. Public safety... convenience... roll up your sleeves fellas...

Sure, why not. Just keep passing more and more laws to make life more difficult for law-abiding citizens who, for some crazy reason, choose to exercise their Constitutional rights. Eventually, you'll turn them into criminals too, and differentiating between good and bad people with guns will become a non-issue.

Don't worry, it's NYC. After realizing that the technology costs too much the city will pass a law requiring all pedestrians to be naked.

Thank you. Good spot.

This technology is somewhat analogous to drug sniffing dogs used in traffic stops. Specifically, the question is - is the use of this technology/drug sniffing dogs a "search" for the purposes of the Fourth Amendment.

For drug dogs, the Supreme Court ruled that it was not a type of search protected by the Constitution. FindLaw's Writ - Dorf: The Supreme Court Upholds Suspicionless Dog Sniffs [An erroneous decision IMHO, but I'm a libertarian . . . ]

I fail to see how these are not searches, but admittedly I've not read the whole opinion of the case.

From the article:

"Police Commissioner Kelly said the scanner would only be used in reasonably suspicious circumstances"

Which means anytime they felt like it.

To think I used to laugh at the guys with the tinfoil beanies.

Turns out they weren't so far off after all.

The differentiating factor in my mind is this: there is no legal reason why a person would be carrying unlawful drugs. Any "positive" identification that a drug dog correctly makes will be a person breaking the law.

On the other hand, there are people who may lawfully be carrying weapons (CCW permit holders, off-duty or plain clothes officers, etc.). This scanner cannot differentiate between criminal and non-criminal concealed weapons. As a result, citizens who are lawfully carrying will be treated as armed criminals until they can prove otherwise. Not that Bloomberg will have any problem with that, mind you.

anybody want something to read from NY about this? and check out the comments

* New York Moves to Deploy Body Scanners on Street in Search for Guns Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

I'm not sure I fully understand what the Commissioner means.

According to the story, the Commissioner says the scanner is only to be used if the circumstances are reasonably suspicious. But then he says it will reduce the number of stop-and-frisks on the street. It sounds like the Commissioner is saying that if the cops knew someone did not have a gun then they would not stop-and-frisk them under suspicious circumstances. So what would be the suspicious street circumstances... 'Oh look at what that guy is doing... very suspicious [Scan] everything must be ok since he doesn't have a gun. Drive on.'

I'm going to start an internet rumor that one side effect of this side scan radar is sterilization and the real purpose is mass sterilization of certain population groups. It must be true, I just read it here.

If by "certain population groups" you mean smug New Yorkers, I'm all for it.

I grew up in Brooklyn , NY. Haven't lived there in almost 30 years. Yet another reason not to move back.

Tinfoil hats, tinfoil hats! Get your tinfoil hats right here!

You know, I read somewhere that that machine causes sterility.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

all the more reason to avoid new york at all costs, new york, new york, its a hell of a violation of your rights as a citizen of the united states!

"If it's for our safety, blah, blah, blah...".

And the sheep trade more freedom for the illusion of safety. Un-freakin'-believable.

I made that same arqument on a FB 2A group and was told to basically shut up!

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SW40VE AF
2000 rounds so far

sounds like the nazi's behind the sopa and protect IP act right now, how we allowed such people to be alowed to control our goverment ill never know.

Just great something else that will be abused.

Our mayor Bloomberg is on a personal vendetta to get ALL guns off the streets and would love to disarm all law abiding citizens if he could this is just another means to the end. When will it ever end?

Just stay out of BLOOMBERGVILLE, GOD is going to fix city that with global warming, and put it to rest underwater forever.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO