Three CCW lessons from the supermarket today

[Filbird]

I was at the local supermarket today, picking up a few things, and had an interesting experience. I had just gotten past the salad bar when I noticed that one of the front office clerks was running like hell out of the store, followed closely by one of the managers. Something obviously was not kosher. Was there a problem in the parking lot? Did someone grab some money from a register? Was there an angry or disgruntled employee out there? I could not tell. All I knew was that something was very wrong somewhere, and my model 442 was locked in the drawer at home.

Lesson 1. My CCW permit is freaking useless when I am not carrying my gun.

I looked around and noticed that no one else seemed to have seen those two employees sprinting out the door; or, if they did see them, it did not register as anything important, because they went right back to what they had been doing, without even bothering to glance around.

Lesson 2. Most people don't notice most of what happens around them.

Within a few minutes, I saw two cops jog into the store, cross in front of the registers, and go into the store's office. They were soon followed by two more cops, and then two more, and then two more - all of whom ran into the store's office. I walked over to the young woman at one of the express registers and asked her what was going on. She didn't understand my question. I said, "Eight county cops have run into your store's office in the last two minutes." She was shocked. "Really?" she said. "I hope everything is OK."

Lesson 3. Condition White is not a theoretical concept. It's the way most people live their lives.

Fascinating.

[bettis1]

Was there a really good reason why your handgun was locked up at home? Seems like that put you in the "condition white" population.

Bob

[TACC1]

Looks like you came out of Condition White in a heartbeat.
TACC1

[Kanewpadle]

Facinating? Yes. If you watch things closely, stuff like that happens all the time. So you must carry, all the time.

"Winning is not a sometime thing, it's an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while. You do them right all the time." Vince Lombardi

Same goes for carrying a gun.

[cshoff]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

Facinating? Yes. If you watch things closely, stuff like that happens all the time. So you must carry, all the time.

"Winning is not a sometime thing, it's an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while. You do them right all the time." Vince Lombardi

Same goes for carrying a gun.

Well said, sir.

[1 old 0311]

I carry 24/7. If I have to go into a school, or Gov building it goes in the glove box other than that I am carrying.

[Filbird]

bettis1, I have no excuse - the gun was at home because I simply don't wear it every day.

I understand now that I have been thinking of "condition white" in terms of awareness, but not in terms of readiness, and that is a mistake. From an awareness point of view, I think I live in condition orange most of the time - I simply notice things in my environment that most people do not, and always have. But, until today, it never occurred to me that I was missing half of the equation, that scanning for and being aware of potential danger is great, but without the tools to respond, I am not far from being in white anyway, from a practical point of view.

[Poohgyrr]

Yup, the world is still a dangerous place. Glad the situation wasn't worse.

[The Last Standing Knight]

Originally Posted by Filbird

I was at the local supermarket today, picking up a few things, and had an interesting experience. I had just gotten past the salad bar when I noticed that one of the front office clerks was running like hell out of the store, followed closely by one of the managers. Something obviously was not kosher. Was there a problem in the parking lot? Did someone grab some money from a register? Was there an angry or disgruntled employee out there? I could not tell. All I knew was that something was very wrong somewhere, and my model 442 was locked in the drawer at home.

Lesson 1. My CCW permit is freaking useless when I am not carrying my gun.

I looked around and noticed that no one else seemed to have seen those two employees sprinting out the door; or, if they did see them, it did not register as anything important, because they went right back to what they had been doing, without even bothering to glance around.

Lesson 2. Most people don't notice most of what happens around them.

Within a few minutes, I saw two cops jog into the store, cross in front of the registers, and go into the store's office. They were soon followed by two more cops, and then two more, and then two more - all of whom ran into the store's office. I walked over to the young woman at one of the express registers and asked her what was going on. She didn't understand my question. I said, "Eight county cops have run into your store's office in the last two minutes." She was shocked. "Really?" she said. "I hope everything is OK."

Lesson 3. Condition White is not a theoretical concept. It's the way most people live their lives.

Fascinating.

I see this kind of behavior you describe almost everyday...most people completely tune out to what is going on around them, even if they see it straight on. IMHO the majority of cases result from people not wanting to get involved...so they "don't see anything" or ignore it thinking someone else will handle it. I cannot legally carry a firearm at my job, but I do every other time. While I hope that day never comes...I'd rather have it and NOT need it than to need it and NOT have it. I learned a long time ago that when it hits the fan, the only one you can depend on is yourself.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by Filbird

bettis1, I have no excuse - the gun was at home because I simply don't wear it every day.

I understand now that I have been thinking of "condition white" in terms of awareness, but not in terms of readiness, and that is a mistake. From an awareness point of view, I think I live in condition orange most of the time - I simply notice things in my environment that most people do not, and always have. But, until today, it never occurred to me that I was missing half of the equation, that scanning for and being aware of potential danger is great, but without the tools to respond, I am not far from being in white anyway, from a practical point of view.

Half the battle is knowing. Now you can do something about it.

[papajohn428]

What was it that Cooper guy used to say all the time? Oh yeah............"There is NO peace in Condition White."

You got a good lesson today, and it didn't cost a thing...........this time.

[OK Hog Shooter]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

Facinating? Yes. If you watch things closely, stuff like that happens all the time. So you must carry, all the time.

"Winning is not a sometime thing, it's an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while. You do them right all the time." Vince Lombardi

Same goes for carrying a gun.

I'm in the same canoe as Kanewpadle. While I don't carry all of the time, I'm gradually getting into the habit of carrying all of the time.

[chud333]

Out of curiosity, what was the brouhaha about? Did you ever find out?

[NE450No2]

Here are some random thoughts...

IF you as a legal CHL holder, use your gun to legally protect, an inocent 3rd party... Then YOU will be the one to face the Grand Jury, Pay Your legal bills, [the people you save will not help you]... And depending on the local Politics, you might go to Prison, where you WILL BE RAPED, AND WILL GET AIDS...

So ALL of your money and ALL of your *** is on the line... To protect someone you do not know...

Random thoughts are, they had the same rights as you to get a CHL, with proper training, to protect THEM...

I would suggest to any Legal CHL Holder to only use your gun to protect you and yours...

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by NE450No2

Here are some random thoughts...

IF you as a legal CHL holder, use your gun to legally protect, an inocent 3rd party... Then YOU will be the one to face the Grand Jury, Pay Your legal bills, [the people you save will not help you]... And depending on the local Politics, you might go to Prison, where you WILL BE RAPED, AND WILL GET AIDS...

So ALL of your money and ALL of your *** is on the line... To protect someone you do not know...

Random thoughts are, they had the same rights as you to get a CHL, with proper training, to protect THEM...

I would suggest to any Legal CHL Holder to only use your gun to protect you and yours...

Good points all. But nobody was talking about intervention. But merely having a gun to carry always to protect yourself.

The dangers of intervention is whole nother story.

[chud333]

Originally Posted by NE450No2

Here are some random thoughts...

IF you as a legal CHL holder, use your gun to legally protect, an inocent 3rd party... Then YOU will be the one to face the Grand Jury, Pay Your legal bills, [the people you save will not help you]... And depending on the local Politics, you might go to Prison, where you WILL BE RAPED, AND WILL GET AIDS...

So ALL of your money and ALL of your *** is on the line... To protect someone you do not know...

Random thoughts are, they had the same rights as you to get a CHL, with proper training, to protect THEM...

I would suggest to any Legal CHL Holder to only use your gun to protect you and yours...

Good point brought up here. I too do not carry all the time. Don't feel the need to unless i'm going to a rough area. Don't be made to feel by anyone that you are a lesser man just because you don't pack at all times. I truly believe there are alot of people who carry 24/7 who don't have the charcter, or "mental make-up" needed to be armed at all times. But this is everyones right so i'll leave it at that. My point is, some who carry will be faced with a decision they are ill-prepared to make at some very inopportune time. Don't pack if you don't feel comfortable with it. Saw a movie last night that had a Clint Eastwood quote in it that really struck a chord: Movie was "Unforgiven" when Eastwoods character says, "Hell of a thing killing a man", you take away every thing he's got and everything he's ever gonna have.
And if you carry you better be prepared to do just that.......
Some people are'nt prepared to do this and could have their hand forced at some point, which can only lead to disaster for the person carrying. Just an opinion. Thoughts by anyone else ???

[TACC1]

chud333,
That thought about the permanence of shooting someone
bothers me all the time. Until we can get Star Trek "phasers",
we're stuck with only one sure-fire deterrent, and even that
may not be enough. The world just isn't fair or safe.
TACC1

[Filbird]

Originally Posted by chud333

Out of curiosity, what was the brouhaha about? Did you ever find out?

No, I never did. I waited around a bit to see what I could find out. Saw two of the cops leave not long after I talked with the cashier, and one of the cops, a sergeant, went out to talk on his cell and he was laughing about something, but I was too far away to hear. On the way out of the store I counted 8 cruisers in front of the store. Am going to check the Sunday morning paper right now.

[Filbird]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

Good points all. But nobody was talking about intervention. But merely having a gun to carry always to protect yourself.

The dangers of intervention is whole nother story.

Agreed - really appreciate the responses here, a lot for me to think about.

To be clear, I was not thinking about intervention, unless my or someone else's life was directly in danger. If someone was just holding up the joint, and running off, I would have been happy to point at where he went.

[Engine 21]

Awareness is half the game and you picked up on that and will make the necessary adjustments. Lesson learned.

[cwo4uscgret]

Under the lessons learned department banner:

1. Read a story about a local cop somewhere, with his 9 y/o daughter, out for fast food lunch...walked into an armed robbery just before the Bad Guys started shooting. He drew his off-duty gun and as he shot one bad guy he emptied his magazine and reached for more ammo - uh oh no spare magazines, one shooter down, the other, unaccounted for. Fortunately shooter 2 went out the back door with the money. Lesson learned from that: if you carry, carry at least 2 reloads be it speed loaders or magazines. I try to keep a full box of ammo in the center console as well.

2. Several years ago we had a string of bank robberies here in Port Huron, MI. They would stash the getaway car a few blocks from the bank, steal a car, go rob the bank (flashing guns), then drive to the getaway car and be on the freeway towards Detroit before the police could respond.

I walked into the bank about 2 hours after they'd been robbed (unbeknownst to me); the manager asked me where I was 2 hours earlier. After he told me why I said it was good I wasn't walking through the door during the robbery - I would have been shot I'm sure.

Lesson learned: when in uniform, look inside a business before entering; be ready for anything. Those bank robbers would have seen blue uniform and badge which would have been enough for them to open fire on me.

They were caught, one had been killed shortly after their string of robberies during a bad drug deal, but the other two a 15 and 16 year old, are locked up now...

Be safe, be alert, scan, scan, scan...
I am a uniformed Federal LEO. Rule number 1 for me is "in uniform, loaded gun on the hip, ready to go.

[papajohn428]

Originally Posted by Filbird

Lesson 2. Most people don't notice most of what happens around them.

Lesson 3. Condition White is not a theoretical concept. It's the way most people live their lives.

A quick story, to illustrate absolute Condition White.............

I went to the grocery store with my then-girlfriend, who was young, blonde, and lived the part. We paid for our stuff, left the cart behind and headed for the exit, each of us carrying a full bag of food. It was one of those stores that had two opposing exits with carts piled up in between them, but at night one of the exits was locked. As we strode past the closed exit, with Kim chattering about something or other a step ahead of me, I looked over and saw a short female manager and a large male worker, maybe a Loss Prevention Officer wearing civvies. They had apparently cornered a shoplifter who had run to the wrong exit doors, only to figure out too late that they were locked, and he was backed in the corner with a panicked look on his face, trying to figure out a way out of there.

Kim kept walking, oblivious to the whole thing, and still chattering away. The shoplifter (an assumption on my part, but a safe bet) was about 6'4", tall and thin, and looked like he was about to bolt past the dinky female manager. If he did, the only way out was right where Kim was headed, and the notion of him grabbing her as a hostage, or at least running right through her crossed my mind.

I stopped, moved the bag to my left arm as I turned toward the bad guy, and swept my coat back like I was putting my hand on my pistol. We locked eyes, and I guess my glare convinced him I wasn't kidding. (I might have had a gun on......CCW wasn't legal there, but......) He slumped and slowly turned around, put his hands behind him so the big guy could cuff him, and as soon as I felt he was no longer a threat, I jogged ahead to catch up with Kim as she headed out the door onto the parking lot.

The adrenaline rush hit me as we got to the car, and I let out a Whew! as she opened the trunk. She looked at me quizzically, and said, "What......is that bag that heavy?"

She hadn't seen ANY of what had transpired, lost in her own world and whatever she was yapping about.

When I told her mother about that incident a few days later, she shook her head, and said, "Well, that's why we gave you our blessing to move in with her. She needs someone to keep her safe, because she's not always aware of what's going on around her."

As hard as I tried to instill a sense of Situational Awareness in her, I don't think it ever took. She's still a natural blonde.........in all the best........... and worst ways.

[sipowicz]

You may not have had a gun on you but at least you had good situational awareness...which is more important than carrying a gun. and if I were in a market with some sketchy types sweating and looking around on line, I doubt I'd engage them with a 442...I'd head outside and call the calvary.

[venomballistics]

add a mistake to the list ...
so after event lit up your radar ... you gave into your curiosity and returned ... unarmed?
in the worst case the only difference between that and condition white is you had a chance to know what hit you.

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by sipowicz

You may not have had a gun on you but at least you had good situational awareness...which is more important than carrying a gun. and if I were in a market with some sketchy types sweating and looking around on line, I doubt I'd engage them with a 442...I'd head outside and call the calvary.

Would that be an Olds 442 to run them over?

[Chuck1217]

I go to a Federal building about twice a week, and have to disarm before I can go inside. Have to walk a block or two from where I park, and many homeless flks hang in that area. I feel absolutely nekkid disarmed, nothing I can do about it.

[Mphstiger1981]

Originally Posted by Chuck1217

I go to a Federal building about twice a week, and have to disarm before I can go inside. Have to walk a block or two from where I park, and many homeless flks hang in that area. I feel absolutely nekkid disarmed, nothing I can do about it.

Chuck,

I respectfully disagree. I have the same problem going unarmed into the Court house and the Jail from time to time during the course of the week.

You still have a voice and a physical presence. When I was in the academy, one of the first things we learned to do was to use your voice to control people. You can also use your hands to make a fence/wall between you and the people you may encounter, thus sending the clear physical message that you are not going to allow them to proceed any further.

Walking with poise, sense of certainty and an air of ability to defend yourself makes a world of difference. You also know how to stay in condition yellow and take caution to avoid situations, you can make eye contact and walk around what may look like trouble. You may know you're unarmed, but the people you are concerned about don't know that. Carry yourself the same way you do when you are armed, and remember as the gun trainer Clint Smith says, "If you look like food, your going to get eaten."

[chud333]

Originally Posted by TACC1

chud333,
That thought about the permanence of shooting someone
bothers me all the time. Until we can get Star Trek "phasers",
we're stuck with only one sure-fire deterrent, and even that
may not be enough. The world just isn't fair or safe.
TACC1

I agree 100% it would have to be do or die for me to take someones life. I believe i could if i had to, but one never knows until it really happens. I pray i don't have to make that choice. Also, i sure as heck are'nt going to shoot to wound, if i have to fire upon a human being it will be for keeps.

[chud333]

Originally Posted by mook012

Awareness is half the game and you picked up on that and will make the necessary adjustments. Lesson learned.

I think the awareness part was the "Whole" point here. And very well taken by me. I try at all times to be aware of my surroundings and also try to think ahead. Meaning, what if this straggly looking dude we're to do this or this ? Have an exit plan and also a reactionary plan if and when presented to you. Example: You get on a bus late at night and notice a couple of drunk/druggie types who look like they might just be aching for a fight. If you are packing your weapon, make sure it is in the condition you want it in, safety off/on, positioned so you can access it quickly. Also look around to see your lanes of fire so you would not endanger anyone else if you had to use it. Look for the quickest route off the bus if you simply wanted to flee a situation, be it back door side door front exit. Make sure the aisle was not obstructed with anything that might trip you when engaging or retiring.
Just common situational awareness. Look ahead, be prepared for anything.

[bettis1]

...i sure as heck are'nt going to shoot to wound, if i have to fire upon a human being it will be for keeps.

Chudd,

I'm pretty sure you intended to say "...if I have to fire upon a human being it will be to stop them from killing me or my loved ones."

Bob

[chud333]

Originally Posted by bettis1

Chudd,

I'm pretty sure you intended to say "...if I have to fire upon a human being it will be to stop them from killing me or my loved ones."

Bob

Yes, Thank you Bob, I stand corrected.

[Badge54]

Lots of good points being made.

I am interested in what did you do? Once you became 'aware' of the situation and recognized that it was taking 8 cops to handle it what did you think? Did you ask yourself;

Was it a robbery?
Was it a Bomb threat?
Was it a disgruntled employee back to seek vengeance on the two you saw running?
A shoplifter caught and fighting now?

Self Defense is 90% avoidance. Was there really something at the Grocery store that important that you needed to keep shopping? Did you ever consider leaving your cart where it was and moving to the next store?

Remember "curiosity killed the cat"

Badge54

[BearBio]

Originally Posted by Mphstiger1981

Chuck,

I respectfully disagree. I have the same problem going unarmed into the Court house and the Jail from time to time during the course of the week.

You still have a voice and a physical presence. When I was in the academy, one of the first things we learned to do was to use your voice to control people. You can also use your hands to make a fence/wall between you and the people you may encounter, thus sending the clear physical message that you are not going to allow them to proceed any further.

Walking with poise, sense of certainty and an air of ability to defend yourself makes a world of difference. You also know how to stay in condition yellow and take caution to avoid situations, you can make eye contact and walk around what may look like trouble. You may know you're unarmed, but the people you are concerned about don't know that. Carry yourself the same way you do when you are armed, and remember as the gun trainer Clint Smith says, "If you look like food, your going to get eaten."

I used to have to go into various courthouses to research real estate records (mostly civil cases affecting title). One day, i young, well-built black man was playfully wrestling his girlfriend and his eyes caught mine. He said something and I responded (I think) "you gotta keep 'em ladies". He laughed and asked me "are you a cop" I said no and explained what I was doing. He told me that I walk like a cop. This in Compton, California.

You LE guys know what that means.

Later, in the Army, I learned about situational awareness and realized that was what I had been doing. Walk like prey and you become the prey!

[Frizzman]

In my LEO days and in other situations I learned early on that my psychic abilities are rather poor. Predicting the future and all the possibilities is difficult if not impossible. I have encountered very dangerous people and situations in very upscale areas. One cannot judge potential threats by making assumptions based solely on how an area or person looks...I am of the belief that its better to have it and not need it that need it and not have it. My experience has been that during a critical situation I never wished I had a smaller weapon or less ammo. The best tactic to attempt to avoid injury and/or death from the actions of other humans or non-humans is to pay attention and be prepared with adequate equipment and the skill to use it competently. Its not always comfortable or easy but the alternative can be much more uncomfortable.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

Facinating? Yes. If you watch things closely, stuff like that happens all the time. So you must carry, all the time.

Unfortunately, some of us don't have that option.

Until recently, I worked night shift at a place that enforces victimization. That meant that going to work, at work, and coming home from work, I was unarmed.

I carried my 3" Model 65 today, something I haven't done in a long time. I even ate dinner at an alcohol serving establishment tonight, taking advantage of the recent change in Ohio law.

I still can't carry at work, but I have the luxury of carrying much more than when I was coming home at 2:00am.

[zoom6zoom]

I too do not carry all the time. Don't feel the need to unless i'm going to a rough area.

I've been asked by friends, "why do you carry here? This is a GOOD neighborhood!"

Yeah, well, stuff happens anywhere. And the more of us that carry, the better chance that it STAYS a nice neighborhood. I don't go to the mailbox without mine.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by chud333

Don't feel the need to unless i'm going to a rough area.

ANY area can get VERY "rough" in a split second. It only takes ONE person.

How "rough" do you think that doctor's neighborhood in Connecticut was before two subhuman sociopaths showed up, beat the snot out of him, raped his wife and daughters and set them on fire? From the pictures, it sure seems like it had little in common with where I grew up on the SE side of Chicago.

This isn't the Soviet Union. We don't have internal passports or random ID checks. Nor do we have force fields that keep "bad" people out of our neighborhoods. There is literally NOTHING on earth to stop some ravening beast on two legs from showing up at your local grocery store, at the passenger door of your car, or on your doorstep. The only question is whether you've got the wherewithal to defend yourself, with or without a weapon.

[chud333]

Originally Posted by cmort666

ANY area can get VERY "rough" in a split second. It only takes ONE person.

How "rough" do you think that doctor's neighborhood in Connecticut was before two subhuman sociopaths showed up, beat the snot out of him, raped his wife and daughters and set them on fire? From the pictures, it sure seems like it had little in common with where I grew up on the SE side of Chicago.

This isn't the Soviet Union. We don't have internal passports or random ID checks. Nor do we have force fields that keep "bad" people out of our neighborhoods. There is literally NOTHING on earth to stop some ravening beast on two legs from showing up at your local grocery store, at the passenger door of your car, or on your doorstep. The only question is whether you've got the wherewithal to defend yourself, with or without a weapon.

Good point and well taken. Just saying i prefer not to carry 24/7. If someone comes busting in my front door they will be rudely awakened, by .12 guage 00buckshot. I can defend myself and my family. Sometimes it just is not an option for me anyways. Workplace has a ban on weapons also in company parking lot. So there is always something under my seat, small fighting ax, ballbat. I know it's not as good as a gun but... Can't lose a 30 year job in this economy due to an inspection of my vehicle. I live in a small town of 2500 people and there's been a rash of burglaries here too. Local bank robbed and Pharmacy robbed for painkillers as well, so i know you are'nt safe anywhere these days. I Still say, most confrontations can be avoided altogether by being observant and prepared for anything. To those who can and want to carry all the time: It's your right and more power to you. I'm just saying you dang well better be prepared to either use it, or have it shoved up your rectum sideways if you are'nt....

[Chuck1217]

Mphstiger, I meant there was nothing I could do about the law forbidding carrying into a Fed'l building.

[Mphstiger1981]

Originally Posted by Chuck1217

Mphstiger, I meant there was nothing I could do about the law forbidding carrying into a Fed'l building.

Gotcha Chuck. Sorry, I apparently misunderstood, and I took your statement out of context. I can relate as I'm in and out of the courts and jail on a regular basis and I can't carry there either. What I do have is a small wooden kubaton that is attached to my key ring, making it at least some semblance of a weapon. I usually get a "what is that" look from most of the guys at the doors who work the metal detectors, but I've never been stopped from carrying it into the building.

[Chuck1217]

The Fed'l bldg I go into says "no guns, no knives, no thisnthatnthisnthat, and no NUNCHUKS,' Found that rather amusing.

[Lost Lake]

I trained with nunchakus for a bit. While they may be very good weapons in the hands of an accomplished professional, what they did for me is put lumps and bumps all over my body, especially my head!
I learned why they make foam padded ones to learn with, and why buying a good set of hardwood ones at first is really dumb.

After a good beating one day I decided at my age I don't need to learn to use nunchakus.

Now the escrima is a different story!!! I suspect police find their billy club to be quite useful also.

[Springfeildkid585]

Originally Posted by bettis1

Was there a really good reason why your handgun was locked up at home? Seems like that put you in the "condition white" population.

Bob

I beg to differ as they are codes of situational awareness. I can't keep my firearm with me as I live in a college dorm. I however remain in condition yellow. Have been in condition orange. Just have to be willing to use alternative weapons, best lesson my father ever taught me; everything is a weapon.

[bettis1]

Kid,

Your daddy was quite right. I hope that he also taught you that your most effective weapon was your mind--all else are simply tools to accomplish the necessary tasks that arise.

If you re-read the first paragraph in the original post you will see that the poster went from condition White to condition Orange in the blink of an eye. His time in condition Yellow amounted to a "Whoops!". Had he been in condition Yellow when he left his house, he would probably have had no reason to make the post in the first place. There was never any indication that he should have used his handgun, he simply removed that option, had the necessity ever occurred.

Bob

[Springfeildkid585]

Originally Posted by bettis1

Kid,

Your daddy was quite right.

Bob

One of the three lessons he taught me that were't "what not to do" and demonstrated by example.

[Wyo]

Originally Posted by Filbird

Lesson 2. Most people don't notice most of what happens around them.

I've carried a concealed weapon for close to 35 years and, like most, have gone to great lengths to be sure no one sees the gun. Honestly, though, I'm not so sure after all this time that it's really much of a concern - I'm about convinced that you could carry a snubby on a string around your neck, hung out like a necklace, and about 98% of the people around you would either not see it or wouldn't recognize it for what it is. Most people are utterly oblivious to everything around them, and that's even more true in this world of cellphones, iPods, iPads, etc.

[papajohn428]

Wyo, you're right...........MOST people don't see much of what's going on around them. I'd had a mustache for the better part of 35 years, shaved it off on a whim one day, and none of the half dozen "trained observers" I work with noticed for a week. My own son didn't pick up on it for three days, and he LIVES with me! Most people are just to absorbed with their own thoughts to do much more than watch the ground in front of them.

The other side of this coin is the Predators. They are looking for that kind of behavior, and if you're not aware of your surroundings, you look like food to them. And they like to eat every day.

What was it that Cooper fella used to say?