Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > General Topics > Concealed Carry & Self Defense
o

Notices

Concealed Carry & Self Defense All aspects of Concealed and Open Carry, Home and Self Defense.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 03-11-2012, 06:02 PM
ikor ikor is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 693
Likes: 122
Liked 187 Times in 114 Posts
Default

Handguns poke holes. Rifles mess shid up..............................just sayin'
__________________
Run Fast, Bite Hard!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #102  
Old 03-11-2012, 09:49 PM
Lost Lake's Avatar
Lost Lake Lost Lake is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,039
Liked 2,358 Times in 1,117 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContinentalOp View Post
The problem is there is no sure-stopper when it comes to handguns. I know of one incident involving a female police officer who was shot in the chest (no vest, IIRC) with a .357 Magnum 125gr JHP, but she was able to return fire, stop her attacker, and survive her injury. I think I recall another story involving a carjacker being shot multiple times with a .45 and being able to escape. I've also heard of one-shot stops from a snub-fired FBI load to the chest. My own opinion is that time will likely be a bigger factor than ammo capacity.

There are way too many variables to say one round or caliber is better than another in every situation. I will say that I make my ammo choices based on what I've researched has worked consistently well in actual shootings, which is why I load my 642 with Speer's 135gr SB-GDHP. More importantly, it's a round I know I can shoot well in my gun. I also acknowledge that emptying my gun into an attacker(s) may not work and plan accordingly. But I would do the same even if I were carrying a double-stack .45 semi-auto.
You may have misunderstood my post....

The good guy had only 5 shots, he used all five and three hit the target. That's 60% and actually probably very good for being 90 years old and under attack!

But what if he had an M&P 9mm with 18 rounds available? At 60% success ratio the bad guy would have taken 12 rounds! I would think 12 rounds in the belly would hurt more than 3 rounds. Maybe enough where the bad guy would consider leaving the scene because the lead just keeps coming his way.

I would like to ask the old man if he wished he had more than 5 rounds available.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 03-11-2012, 10:29 PM
GeorgeH GeorgeH is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I just noticed this thread. I own both self-loading pistols and revolvers. Both have their place in the SD world. My "always" gun is a Seecamp 380 that camps out in my right rear pocket. But just a few days ago, I contacted my local dealer to buy a airweight J frame. The reason, is that I want something to both carry and leave at work for others to have access to in the event of an emergency.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 03-11-2012, 11:54 PM
STCM(SW)'s Avatar
STCM(SW) STCM(SW) is offline
US Veteran
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: E. Washington State
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 1,321
Liked 10,568 Times in 3,212 Posts
Default

I have lots of revolvers & bottom feeders to chose from for CCW.
For the summer, my Kal-Teck
.380ACP can hide anyware.
Any other time, my 1911 .45ACP or a Colt Cobra or M36 is with me.
I have CC my M21 .44Spl sometimes, but it is bulky.
My Springfield .45 XD is just to big for CCW.
Go with what you got, Old Navy saying....

Last edited by STCM(SW); 03-11-2012 at 11:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 03-12-2012, 12:31 AM
ContinentalOp's Avatar
ContinentalOp ContinentalOp is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,315
Likes: 13,115
Liked 12,802 Times in 4,228 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post
You may have misunderstood my post....

The good guy had only 5 shots, he used all five and three hit the target. That's 60% and actually probably very good for being 90 years old and under attack!

But what if he had an M&P 9mm with 18 rounds available? At 60% success ratio the bad guy would have taken 12 rounds! I would think 12 rounds in the belly would hurt more than 3 rounds. Maybe enough where the bad guy would consider leaving the scene because the lead just keeps coming his way.

I would like to ask the old man if he wished he had more than 5 rounds available.
OK. What I think you're saying is that if the man had an 18-shot handgun with the same hit ratio of 60%, resulting in 12 hits instead of 3, that it would've been more effective.

Again, there's no guarantee that even those 12 hits would've worked. I know of one incident, I believe involving the Illinois State Police, where two officers armed with 9mm pistols fired on their attacker and got 13 hits. The attacker finally stopped. IIRC, it wasn't until EMS arrived that he went unconscious. I believe the attacker ultimately survived.

Even in this instance, based on what I read in the article, the attacker continued his attack after being hit 3 times. That tells me he was determined to attack his "victim". Would that determination have given him the strength to attack after being hit 12 times in the abdomen? I don't know.

Let's look at some other issues. How long would it have taken the man to fire those 18 rounds to get those 12 hits? Now how long would it have taken for the attacker to close the distance? Would the man have even been able to fire 18 rounds before then? What if those 12 hits were in the chest? What if he sprays-and-prays because of the higher capacity and ends up with an even lower hit ratio? Is the man firing in a solid 2-handed stance or in a 1-handed stance? Are one or both parties moving? What if in a panic the man didn't grip the gun correctly and caused a jam after only firing a round or two? This is before we consider the attacker's build, mental state, clothing, and whether or not drugs are in his system. As I said, there are a lot of variables and it's impossible to account for them all. Whether you have 2 rounds of the cheapest, weakest ammo in your gun or 20 rounds of the latest high-tech wonder bullet, they may work or they may not.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter what caliber or type of round you're shooting. Choosing ammo with a good track record of stopping a violent attacker, that's reliable in your gun and that you can shoot well, makes sense. What I'm saying is that whatever you carry, you should, in a sense, "expect" your ammo to fail. That way, if it does, you can respond as needed, immediately, instead of wondering, "What just happened?" as your attacker closes on you.

I would also think that even if he had that 18-round M&P and got the 12 hits you proposed, he'd still wish for more ammo.

Or a shotgun.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 03-12-2012, 11:31 AM
Lost Lake's Avatar
Lost Lake Lost Lake is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,039
Liked 2,358 Times in 1,117 Posts
Default

I agree with what you say CO, but the thread is comparing revolvers and semi's for self defense, and to add to the conversation I threw in the story of the 90 year old man using a 5 shot revolver and being attacked after his gun was empty.

The gun was kept in his bathroom so size-for-carrying doesn't come into play, neither does weight.

Right now I have a M&P 9c and a .357 revolver sitting in front of me at my desk. Both have Gold Dots loaded, I think both would be a good SD gun. But if someone starts banging on my door I'll take the 9c with 13 rounds and leave the .357 with 6 rounds.

I shoot revolvers also, and I just don't get the idea of spray and pray when using a semi. What I think I may do is something similar to the cops at the bank robbery did in a video posted here last year: The cops hid behind a desk and held the gun up and fired a couple rounds. This maybe was to distract the BG, scare him or hopefully hit him. Whatever it was, I think the cops knew they had 50 rounds or so to use between their loaded gun and extra mags, and used a tactic that would be insane to try if you only have a 5 shot revolver.

I just prefer more firepower. However if a revolver or even a Derringer or a muzzleloader are more your type then carry them. With the reliability of modern semi-autos I don't see the point of handicapping myself with less chance of success.

No need to feel offended or upset, this is just my opinion, and I admit I'm getting my wife a nice 642 to see how she likes it. I will try to convince her to carry a M&P 9c though.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 03-12-2012, 03:09 PM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is offline
Absent Comrade
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 6,106
Likes: 23,604
Liked 13,182 Times in 2,860 Posts
Default

To anyone interested in a current real life scenario and how it played out, Google NYPD Detective Benjamin Cintron. Here is a thumnail sketch.

On January 29th 2012 he had two mopes try to mug him as he was on his way to work. Yes, another failure in the victim selection process.

He pulled his off duty 5-shot J-frame revolver. Shot mope #1 one time - bad breath distance - with a 135 grain Speer 38+P Gold Dot short barrel round. Bullet goes through the arm, into the chest, mopey is down and out - and shortly DRT.

Mope #2 flees, imagine that. Later apprehended at his Grandmothers residence. I'll bet both were just turning their lives around and going to be doctors, you know, so they could help people. Good on you DET Cintron!

Fifty year old, off duty Detective survives an attack by two individuals, armed "only" with a 5-shot 38 revolver. I guess he doesn't frequent the internet. I wonder if he is still wearing a J-frame or has gone out and purchased a Glock? Regards 18DAI

Last edited by 18DAI; 03-12-2012 at 03:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #108  
Old 03-12-2012, 03:55 PM
dwever dwever is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Matsu Valley, Alaska
Posts: 881
Likes: 146
Liked 1,003 Times in 349 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Fifty year old, off duty Detective survives an attack by two individuals, armed "only" with a 5-shot 38 revolver. I guess he doesn't frequent the internet. I wonder if he is still wearing a J-frame or has gone out and purchased a Glock? Regards 18DAI
Glad the detective's okay. In 2010 I had to put an injured deer down, and the only thing I had was my Glock. Took three shots and it worked. Just because it worked doesn't mean a police tactical .308 rifle wasn't a more appropriate choice had it been available.

Whether bad guys or deer, anecdotal evidence is never adequate because it gives one situation where one solution worked; and it is a fallacy of logic to hold up that one situation as an answer to an exceedingly broader discussion. One example almost never answers the more important question of which solution is the one that will work best across a very broad range of potential circumstances. :-). Peace

Last edited by dwever; 03-12-2012 at 05:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #109  
Old 03-12-2012, 07:01 PM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is offline
Absent Comrade
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 6,106
Likes: 23,604
Liked 13,182 Times in 2,860 Posts
Default

I posted the Detectives story after reading about the 90 year old man who used his 5-shot revolver ineffectively. Mainly to illustrate a point. If the old man had put an effective round through his attackers forehead or aorta - perhaps he wouldn't have had to take a beating. A Glock would likely not have made a difference there.

Sure, choose the best handgun for the job at hand.

But there are three things more important than handgun selection.

1) Mindset
2)Training
3)Tactics

Then comes what you choose to place in your holster. The Detective in my illustration was a well trained twenty six year veteran. I think he would have prevailed regardless of the handgun he had on him. For some well trained, skilled individuals, five or six rounds will be plenty. Regards 18DAI
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #110  
Old 03-12-2012, 08:15 PM
DDDWho DDDWho is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Mo./Tx.
Posts: 138
Likes: 11
Liked 51 Times in 24 Posts
Default

Speed loader anyone?
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 03-12-2012, 08:44 PM
Lost Lake's Avatar
Lost Lake Lost Lake is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,039
Liked 2,358 Times in 1,117 Posts
Default

In trained hands an escrima stick would be quite deadly.
In trained hands a blow dart would be quite deadly.
In trained hands a slingshot would be quite deadly.

This really doesn't prove much when you are a 90 year old man attacked while you are away from your gun, then the only gun you get to is a 5 shot revolver.

If the old man could have grabbed a different weapon, perhaps if he had a revolver and a 18 shot Glock sitting side by side and he was equally proficient with either, which would he grab?

That is the same question I answer every day when I leave my 6 shot .357 sit in the safe and take my 13 shot M&P 9c. And the same question each of us answer when we walk out the door with our gun of choice.

I'm betting the old man wishes he had more bullets.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:59 AM
Hook686's Avatar
Hook686 Hook686 is offline
US Veteran
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: May 2005
Location: California
Posts: 383
Likes: 161
Liked 61 Times in 40 Posts
Default

The old man is lucky he did not have more bullets. As I read it, he took a beating because his gun was empty when the BG took it from him.
__________________
Hook686
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 03-13-2012, 09:12 AM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is offline
Absent Comrade
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 6,106
Likes: 23,604
Liked 13,182 Times in 2,860 Posts
Default

Keep in mind that overzealous prosecutors love it when there are alot of holes in a............."alleged victim". If you survive the gunfight, you may still have to survive a trial.

I've seen politically motivated prosecutors easily convince twelve folks too stupid to get out of jury duty that the "defendant" went too far in firing "all those shots". More is not always better.....or even good in some cases. Regards 18DAI
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #114  
Old 03-13-2012, 09:18 AM
Lost Lake's Avatar
Lost Lake Lost Lake is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,039
Liked 2,358 Times in 1,117 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook686 View Post
The old man is lucky he did not have more bullets. As I read it, he took a beating because his gun was empty when the BG took it from him.
I read that, but I believe the BG would not have got to the old man had there been more fire coming. Sure would like to know the fine details!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Keep in mind that overzealous prosecutors love it when there are alot of holes in a............."alleged victim". If you survive the gunfight, you may still have to survive a trial.

I've seen politically motivated prosecutors easily convince twelve folks too stupid to get out of jury duty that the "defendant" went too far in firing "all those shots". More is not always better.....or even good in some cases. Regards 18DAI
As far as I know, you shoot until the threat is stopped. That may take one shot, it may take five, or in the old man's case, it took more than five but he didn't have more.....

I think the excessive shooting you refer to is shots placed after a man is down, running away or dead. This BG was still attacking.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:12 AM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is offline
Absent Comrade
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 6,106
Likes: 23,604
Liked 13,182 Times in 2,860 Posts
Default

Well if you want to persue MAYBE's - MAYBE the bad guy wouldn't have laid a glove on the old guy if there had been a single ACCURATE shot to start with - not MORE INACCURATE FIRE.

Evidently the shots the old guy fired weren't placed properly and two of them missed altogether. I fail to see - other than suppressing fire - what more misses would have done for the old fella. Regards 18DAI
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #116  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:46 AM
6mmman 6mmman is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times in 5 Posts
Default

As other have stated I carry both as need dictates. In a SHTF situation The gun you have trained with and used the most will be the one you want. I have noticed when shooting under high stress that the rounds hit the intended target without any noticed effort of sight picture or trigger control. If we cant shoot like this no amount of extra ammo is going to help. Its not magic but the results of practice and keeping what we carry simple. I used to ride with my uncle who was Sheriff in a rural VA. county. A S&W model 10 was all he needed. LEO has a different mission today. Give them all the ammo they can carry!!!
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 03-13-2012, 09:51 PM
Lost Lake's Avatar
Lost Lake Lost Lake is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,039
Liked 2,358 Times in 1,117 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
Well if you want to persue MAYBE's - MAYBE the bad guy wouldn't have laid a glove on the old guy if there had been a single ACCURATE shot to start with - not MORE INACCURATE FIRE.

Evidently the shots the old guy fired weren't placed properly and two of them missed altogether. I fail to see - other than suppressing fire - what more misses would have done for the old fella. Regards 18DAI
Yes if the old man would have hit him in the head he may have stopped attacking. But he didn't. He did the best he could, for as long as he could, then he ran out of bullets.

It's comforting to think you have 5 rounds so you can easily kill 5 attackers if need be. It's just not realistic.

I don't think I could do perfect shooting while the bad guys are running, blocking, throwing things, ducking and swinging.

I'll take 13 rounds over 5 any day.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 03-14-2012, 06:36 PM
hatt hatt is offline
Banned
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 467
Likes: 139
Liked 147 Times in 71 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Lake View Post

I'll take 13 rounds over 5 any day.
Me too! But I'm finding with my 14 shooter, it stays at home(usually bring my old beater Model 19 to leave in the car if I don't plan on carrying) too much leaving me with 0 rounds. I've been eyeing a Model 36 at a local store. 14>5>0.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:05 PM
Franciscomv Franciscomv is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Just a couple of days ago there was a nasty home invasion in my town. The victim was a well known TV/radio personality so it got a lot of media coverage.

The home owner was shot 4 times, his son was shot 4 times as well. Both of them are in the hospital making a recovery.

One of the bad guys died, after being shot eight times with a 9mm. Another one was wounded twice (in the shoulders) but managed to get away, go get his father and show up at a hospital claiming to be the victim of a robbery.

According to the initial police report, some twenty shots were fired from several different handguns.

Most local gun-folks I've discussed this incident with think that it proves the need for high capacity handguns. IMHO, it proves the need for a good 12ga shotgun!
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:42 PM
geoff40's Avatar
geoff40 geoff40 is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,173
Likes: 212
Liked 838 Times in 262 Posts
Default

You are an LEO, and IMO you should be armed with a high-cap pistol and extra magazines. Every cruiser in this country should have a shotgun and a rifle in it as well. At least I think so. Though I like revolvers better, I am glad you put yours away. Be smart out there.

For us average folks, I think a wheel gun is still a very suitable CCW choice, I think its highly unlikely that any of us are ever going to need more than a few shots. A J frame and a speed strip in my pocket, and I'm good.

Fransiscomv said:
"One of the bad guys died, after being shot eight times with a 9mm."

-This happens I know. Either the thug was blasted on meth or coke or some kind of multi chemical cocktail, or those 8 shots were ball ammo. But it ended well for him.
__________________
Geoff. Since 1960.

Last edited by geoff40; 03-14-2012 at 10:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #121  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:11 AM
oldman45 oldman45 is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,973
Likes: 95
Liked 336 Times in 138 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franciscomv View Post
Just a couple of days ago there was a nasty home invasion in my town. The victim was a well known TV/radio personality so it got a lot of media coverage.

The home owner was shot 4 times, his son was shot 4 times as well. Both of them are in the hospital making a recovery.

One of the bad guys died, after being shot eight times with a 9mm. Another one was wounded twice (in the shoulders) but managed to get away, go get his father and show up at a hospital claiming to be the victim of a robbery.

According to the initial police report, some twenty shots were fired from several different handguns.

Most local gun-folks I've discussed this incident with think that it proves the need for high capacity handguns. IMHO, it proves the need for a good 12ga shotgun!
Shotguns are great for home defense. Not all crimes occur inside a home. The crime above appears to prove the need for more target practice and not a shotgun. My money would say the victim has not been on a range twice in any six month period. Being a gun owner does not mean being proficient with a gun.

Taking it one item at a time:

Being hit eight times indicates a larger caliber is needed and not more rounds. He was hitting his target but not getting immediate results.
Hitting the shoulders (assuming both since you used a plural form) means the shooter was not accurate with a gun. More rounds is not going to help in this but will send more missed rounds elsewhere.
People do not practice enough to know how to shoot.
A shotgun can also be used against a homeowner. It is a lot more different going around corners, walking through doorways and such with a shotgun in hand. A shotgun is a lever that can be grabbed by the barrel by an oppoenent. Call the police to a residence believed to have an intruder. Officers will respond and there will likely be a shotgun in their cars but they will not go in carrying them.

A shotgun makes a great gun outdoors for multiple assailants. The sight of it is intimidating. It is difficult to miss with a shotgun. They just require one to make more of a target in their use.

Just saying
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 03-15-2012, 08:48 AM
dwever dwever is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Matsu Valley, Alaska
Posts: 881
Likes: 146
Liked 1,003 Times in 349 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff40 View Post
You are an LEO, and IMO you should be armed with a high-cap pistol and extra magazines . . . For us average folks, I think a wheel gun is still a very suitable CCW choice, I think its highly unlikely that any of us are ever going to need more than a few shots. A J frame and a speed strip in my pocket, and I'm good.
Like a number of posts on this thread, the decision to carry a pistol or revolver has been reduced to simply capacity. I am respectfully suggesting that capacity is one factor, and in most cases by itself is probably not adequate to make the determination for concealed carry and self defense. It wasn't for me.

In the original post, the pistol was put forward as having multiple advantages for the OP (but not necessarily for others) well beyond simple capacity: good energy, less recoil, faster follow-up shots, more accuracy, superior capacity, better concealment, better at night, and better (less) weight. These multiple factors taken together made the decision to carry the pistol.

Last edited by dwever; 03-15-2012 at 10:11 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #123  
Old 03-15-2012, 01:16 PM
LL617 LL617 is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 359
Likes: 9
Liked 180 Times in 55 Posts
Default

My spouse prefers using the .9mm SA. I have a .38SP Bodyguard for concealed carry and personal defense. I hope to purchase a model 66 .357 fairly soon to use for defensive purposes I have a 617 for fun.

However, I recently saw the MP40 demonstrated on TV. My daughter also likes this a lot. Sometime in the future, I am thinking about getting the MP40 and also a Ruger rifle.

I hope that would cover all the bases.
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 03-15-2012, 04:07 PM
Mphstiger1981 Mphstiger1981 is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 233
Likes: 49
Liked 45 Times in 26 Posts
Default

I think it was Clint Smith who once said that he never met a person who had actually been in a gunfight who had wished for a smaller caliber gun, or less ammunition.
Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 03-15-2012, 06:50 PM
sipowicz's Avatar
sipowicz sipowicz is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gun lovin\' Hollywood Ca.
Posts: 10,238
Likes: 7,741
Liked 18,707 Times in 3,792 Posts
Default

I got tired of carrying only 5 rounds in my little j-frame revolver...so I got a 6 shot Colt....
__________________
Thirty characters. Exactly...
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #126  
Old 03-15-2012, 09:12 PM
sheepdawg's Avatar
sheepdawg sheepdawg is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Hills of North Georgia
Posts: 5,118
Likes: 1,850
Liked 12,440 Times in 3,403 Posts
Default

Carried a semi auto for years and all of a sudden it turns into a jamomatic. It lingers in the back of my mind so I carry an S&W 15-3 snubbie now with a speed loader in my pocket. I know it will go boom everytime I pull the trigger.


Revolvers don't look as cool if you hold them sideways as what's in vouge now though.
__________________
LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 03-15-2012, 09:34 PM
W.E.G.'s Avatar
W.E.G. W.E.G. is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 13
Liked 831 Times in 390 Posts
Default

Sometimes I carry the G22.

Sometimes I carry the Hand-Ejector.

While I'm competent enough with both of them, it mostly is kind of like carrying around one of my favorite baseball cards. Their just not much fun to collect if you just put them in a stiff box, and hardly ever look at them.

We don't really have much crime in my area.

Here are some highlights from last weeks "crime report."

Suspicious Event/ Possible Construction Fraud 12-03005
900 Block Cottage Street, SW
January 31 12:00 p.m.
A citizen reported that on the listed date a subject approached him at his home and told him his
house needed repairs for damage it sustained during the recent earthquake.
The homeowner agreed to have the work completed. After a couple hours the subject told the
complainant that he was finished and requested payment in the amount of $4,000.00. The
complainant paid the “worker”.
The complainant recently checked with another contractor about the repairs and this contractor
felt that the complainant was scammed. It appears that the cracks sustained during the earthquake
were merely painted over.
Attempts to contact the original worker have been fruitless.
This case is still being investigated.
.
.
.


Suspicious Event 12-02990
Cedar Lane School
101 Cedar Lane, SW
February 24 10:43 a.m.
Officer Tremont responded for a disruptive 21 year old student that was running around the
school without a shirt.
Upon his arrival the student had fled the school. Further investigation revealed that the student
became disruptive after his mother arrived to take him home.
PFC Ruddy located the student a short distance away. He was reunited with his mother and went
with her without further incident. The mother transported the son to a medical facility for
evaluation.
.
.
.


Police Service 12-03197
500 Block Roberts Drive, NW
February 24 2:00 p.m.
A citizen reported that he heard about an obscene Twitter message that had been written about
him.
.
.
.

Police Service 12-03061
Popeye’s Chicken Restaurant
325 Maple Avenue, East
February 25 7:50 p.m.
A manager reported that an employee was refusing to leave the store after being asked to do so.
The employee failed to perform an assigned task and had been asked to leave by the manager.
Officer Tracy spoke with both parties and convinced the employee to leave without incident.
.
.
.

Suspicious Person 12-03106
CVS Store
337 Maple Avenue, East
February 26 6:00 p.m.
MPO Sheeran responded for the report of a suspicious individual photographing Girl Scouts as
they were selling cookies in front of the store. After approximately a 20 minute delay the police
were notified.
.
.
.

Medical Case 12-03146
300 Block Maple Avenue, West
February 27 8:33 p.m.
Several concerned citizens reported a female subject that was walking along the sidewalk and
screaming.
Arriving officers located the adult female lying on the sidewalk. The individual was transported
back to her home on Thelma Circle. At the house the woman’s mother reported that she was
being disruptive inside the home and presented a danger.
The woman was then transported to a medical facility for evaluation and treatment.
.
.
.

Animal Case 12-03219
1100 Block Drake Street, SW
February 28 9:08 p.m.
MPO Shaver responded for 2 dogs that were barking. The dogs had the ability to freely enter and
exit the home and were barking incessantly in the fenced yard.
Attempts to contact the dog’s owner were unsuccessful.
ACO Barker will follow up on this case.
.
.
.

Grand Larceny 12-03261
Wolftrap Hotel
March 1 12:34 a.m.
A citizen rented a room at the hotel. While there he contacted a massage therapist using a
website and requested a massage in his room.
A short time later a female arrived at his room. The victim paid her up front for the service but
she left with his cash. No massage was provided.
This case is still being investigated.
__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:31 PM
dwever dwever is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Matsu Valley, Alaska
Posts: 881
Likes: 146
Liked 1,003 Times in 349 Posts
Default

WTH? What a spectacularly inane waste of off-topic space W.E.G. Don't drink and post.
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:13 AM
Franciscomv Franciscomv is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff40 View Post
Fransiscomv said:
"One of the bad guys died, after being shot eight times with a 9mm."

-This happens I know. Either the thug was blasted on meth or coke or some kind of multi chemical cocktail, or those 8 shots were ball ammo. But it ended well for him.
Well, you're right about the ball ammo. FMJ is the only kind of ammo we can legally use for self defense in my country. We can own and use HPs for sport. We've got some ****** lawmakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldman45 View Post
Shotguns are great for home defense. Not all crimes occur inside a home. The crime above appears to prove the need for more target practice and not a shotgun. My money would say the victim has not been on a range twice in any six month period. Being a gun owner does not mean being proficient with a gun.

Taking it one item at a time:

Being hit eight times indicates a larger caliber is needed and not more rounds. He was hitting his target but not getting immediate results.
Hitting the shoulders (assuming both since you used a plural form) means the shooter was not accurate with a gun. More rounds is not going to help in this but will send more missed rounds elsewhere.
People do not practice enough to know how to shoot.
A shotgun can also be used against a homeowner. It is a lot more different going around corners, walking through doorways and such with a shotgun in hand. A shotgun is a lever that can be grabbed by the barrel by an oppoenent. Call the police to a residence believed to have an intruder. Officers will respond and there will likely be a shotgun in their cars but they will not go in carrying them.

A shotgun makes a great gun outdoors for multiple assailants. The sight of it is intimidating. It is difficult to miss with a shotgun. They just require one to make more of a target in their use.

Just saying
I wouldn't be to hard on the home owner from my story. the deck was really stacked against him. The robbers came into his house holding one of his kids hostage, they were about to execute him (since they recognized him from TV) when he made the move for his gun (which was in a drawer). I don't know if he got hit before he began firing, and he was outnumbered.

I train as often as I can, but I'm not sure I could do much better than him in those circumstances.

Our laws also hindered him, if he'd used proper SD ammo he'd be looking at some serious legal issues (and would probably be sued by the surviving scumbags and their families).

About shotguns, I do understand that they aren't perfect. Like any weapon they've got strong points and weak ones. In the event of a break-in at my place, I don't plan to move around the house. I'll stay put, call 911, and be ready to pour as much buckshot as possible onto anything coming through the door. I'm not trained to clear a house.

I'm sorry if I strayed away from the main point of this thread. On the whole revolver/semiauto issue, I stand firmly in the revolver camp. I'm much more skilled with DA revolvers and I like the calibers they offer. My semiautos are mostly range toys.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:24 PM
dwever dwever is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Matsu Valley, Alaska
Posts: 881
Likes: 146
Liked 1,003 Times in 349 Posts
Default

One year later after the hard decision to ditch the revolvers, and it was definitely the right decision, particularly as long as I'm sworn.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 01-14-2013, 11:41 PM
sipowicz's Avatar
sipowicz sipowicz is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Gun lovin\' Hollywood Ca.
Posts: 10,238
Likes: 7,741
Liked 18,707 Times in 3,792 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwever View Post
One year later after the hard decision to ditch the revolvers, and it was definitely the right decision, particularly as long as I'm sworn.
Okay...we'll check back in 2014.
__________________
Thirty characters. Exactly...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #132  
Old 01-15-2013, 02:40 AM
Janet L. Janet L. is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default Women

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeChuck View Post
This is why I own, practice with, and carry a BG 380.



Dress code isn't simply a matter of compulsion, implying that the only reason people wear clothing in which gun concealment is difficult is because they are forced to do so. Some of us choose not to wear large, loose clothing at any time; it's not our personal dress code. In the winter I tend to wear long sleeve T's and sweatshirts. In the summer I wear shorts and T-shirts, and I do not presently nor do I intend to begin wearing a second shirt over my T-shirt just so I can -stick a gun in a holster. Also, I try to wear clothing that actually fits. I don't care for big and baggy clothing.

Body size plays into this as well. I'm 5'11" and 160 pounds on my way back to 150. If you're large and shaped like a lumberjack with broad shoulders and a small waist, perhaps concealing a gun inside the waistband is easy. If you're fat (and my trip to the local gun show last Saturday told me that this is an *epidemic*) then perhaps you already wear gunny sacks designed to cover your rolls. (I kid. I kid.) In such a case, concealing a larger gun may be "not hard".

But when you look like I do ("narrow" doesn't adquately describe my shoulder width), concealing a larger gun isn't easy unless you wish to change your entire wardrobe, and I don't. I recognize that this is a personal choice, that I could change my wardrobe. But many of us chose a semiauto .380 simply because of the tradeoff between its size and the caliber. I only pocket carry. Period. I'd *rather* carry an M&P9c, but I'm unwilling to change my clothing so I can stick a gun in my waistband so that nobody will see it.

This dovetails well with the OP's explanation of why he stopped carrying revolvers for semiauto's. It was his *preference* and while there are pro's and con's on each side, he chose as he saw fit. So it is with concealment. If your highest priority is to conceal the largest possible gun, you will dress and act accordingly. For many of us, the priority is to have a gun in the highly unlikely event that we will need it, but not to change how we dress to accommodate the gun.

Regarding revolvers vs. semiauto's, I considered a revolver before buying my BG 380. In the end, I chose the semiauto because it is slightly thinner and that's what I wanted.
Now, for women, the baggy clothes often recommended for concealed carry by guys just are not socially acceptable.

A wheel gun is almost unavoidably a purse-carry only option - even a five shot cylinder is just too bulky. And for purse carry, why not pack something a bit bigger than a J frame?

A tiny auto like a Kel Tec P32 or an old Baby Browning is very easy to conceal. Not a lot of stopping power, but as my old mentor used to say, "It's better than bringing a knife to a gunfight."

I've come to think that the new generation of baby 9s like the Shield, Nano or P290 would be more suitable for on-body concealment than my 638. None of 'em pack that many more bangs than a J frame, 7 or 8, but as someone who isn't out looking for trouble (unlike a peace officer) that aught to be plenty.
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:36 AM
beemerphile beemerphile is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Danielsville, GA USA
Posts: 738
Likes: 27
Liked 401 Times in 152 Posts
Default

That's why they make both kinds. I went the other direction. I'll change back when they come up with a stone reliable semi-auto that can be fired to empty from inside my jacket pocket.
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:43 AM
Alnamvet68 Alnamvet68 is offline
Banned
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,745
Likes: 448
Liked 1,089 Times in 543 Posts
Default

Exactly; as much as I am fond of my rather extensive Colt 1911 collection, there isn't an auto loader made that one can fire from within the pocket.
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:16 AM
jimmyj's Avatar
jimmyj jimmyj is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DUNNELLON, FLORIDA USA
Posts: 11,102
Likes: 1,690
Liked 16,302 Times in 4,231 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by NKJ nut View Post
A Glock? Seriously? Where in the world did you find one of those? You know that revolvers are much more common than those seamy autos. About the only ones that buys those things are the guvmint and the police.

Jimmy, you ain't done formed your own guvmint or opened up your own police department have you?
Five Sons and one Son-Inlaw are "Cops"
Wife and Daughter are "Shooters"
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:32 AM
moe l. moe l. is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 224
Likes: 119
Liked 125 Times in 62 Posts
Default

I think it's pretty much whatever suits you best. I have a Glock 30 and I have a 627PC 2.625" barrel. The Glock holds 10 (I'm in CA) 45acp's and the 627 holds 8 357mag. For me, the Glock is in my nightstand drawer, for my daughter who has difficulty racking the slide, the 627 fits her needs much better.
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 01-15-2013, 11:09 AM
Donn's Avatar
Donn Donn is offline
US Veteran
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,421
Likes: 6
Liked 5,315 Times in 1,937 Posts
Default

I've got both, carry both. Wouldn't carry anything I wasn't confident in should the worst happen. One part of dwever's post that I'm curious about. He claims the wheelgun pulled at his pants. A full sized auto pistol with a hi-cap mag, spare hi-cap mags and a BUG doesn't? Just asking.
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:00 PM
GLV GLV is offline
US Veteran
Absent Comrade
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 640
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Default dwever,

sounds good to me, and as I often say, to each his/her own.

For me, normal carry is a couple of revolvers. I have and shoot semi auto handguns for fun, but my carry guns must work, and at 81, sometimes I manage to make auto pistols fail to work. Hand strength is lacking, clearing failures is more difficult, weakened wrist, arthritis, radiation treatments, etc. have made revolver much easier for me.

Enjoy your semi auto handguns, and remember to have--oh a gauge and a .30 caliber rifle handy.
__________________
the world is round everywhere
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:10 PM
David LaPell's Avatar
David LaPell David LaPell is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,543
Likes: 667
Liked 6,774 Times in 1,312 Posts
Default

Here in NY I have a feeling revolvers are going to be back in style, and among some of us they never went away. I have my 649 and my Model 27, which are both NY compliant under Cuomo's new edict. If I go with a semi auto, at least I can still get a 1911 .45 for all my needs.
__________________
Vaya con Dios
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #140  
Old 01-15-2013, 10:32 PM
AZretired's Avatar
AZretired AZretired is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New Mexico & Arizona
Posts: 1,630
Likes: 735
Liked 1,460 Times in 644 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwever View Post
Correct. I am not saying to the revolver crowd on any level that they need to convert. I am simply reporting my own narrative topically within, "Concealed Carry and Self Defense."
No problem, that's your choice. During my LE career I went through much the same process. I actually got down to just one revolver for a time. But the truth be told, in 1990 when my department switched to auto, I did not want to and if they had let me I would have carried one my entire career. I retired on '06 and have reversed things I now own just 2 Glocks and many more S&W revolvers. I almost never carry or shoot the Glocks.
__________________
Support your Police, & NRA
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:09 PM
Fastbolt's Avatar
Fastbolt Fastbolt is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 4,638
Likes: 915
Liked 6,591 Times in 2,191 Posts
Default

I'd forgotten about this thread.

Interesting to see it brought back, and especially interesting that it was brought back by the OP. Glad to hear your decision has proven to have been the right one for you.

Since my last post in this thread there's been some things happening ...

I attended a couple of "officer safety" in-service training lectures. One was for the LEOKA class (Law Enforcement Officers Killed & Assaulted), which travels. The other was also a traveling field class, taught by a retired LASD trainer. Both were great classes, drawing large auditoriums of attendees.

For the purposes of this thread, I found a couple of things fairly interesting in these classes (beyond the obvious ).

Firstly, the presence and usefulness of the ubiquitous 5-shot snub revolver as a secondary/backup weapon has been, and is seemingly still, going strong.

In one of the lectures there were many related instances where a 5-shot snub .38 Spl had been used by cops, in a secondary/backup capacity, to successfully stop attacks by 1, 2 and even 3 armed attackers, saving the lives of the cops. (Yes, the .380 ACP was also mentioned, but the 5-shot snub seemed to receive greater mention.)

The difficulty of using the little snubs, and their obvious limitation of 5-shots capacity before having to be reloaded, doesn't necessarily mean they aren't still being used to good effect in limited roles.

Secondly, the other thing I found interesting was the number of cops attending these events who were armed versus unarmed. Many attendees were there for training while on-duty, and many were attending on their own time & dime. Some uniforms were being worn, but the greater number were dressed in business or casual/off-duty clothing. Both classes contained upwards of a couple hundred or more attendees.

In one class, when the instructor asked for a show of hands of everyone who was armed, approx 60% of the people raised their hands.

In the other class, when the same question was asked, approx 80% of the people raised hands.

Now, granted, these classes dealt specifically with officer safety & tactics topics, so you'd hope attending cops would already have some elevated interest in this subject. It's not like the same number were being polled when they were away from work/training, completely on their own time. On previous occasions when I've attended training over the years, I can remember a lot fewer cops traveling to such classes, away from their agencies & jurisdictions, and choosing to be armed.

It's also that when I've previously attended a couple lectures by another well known & respected trainer (Lt. Col. Grossman, ret), he mentioned statistics indicating that upwards of no more than 20% of active LE reportedly carried off-duty weapons. Maybe we're seeing another cycle of awareness occurring among the next generation of cops. Dunno. Just thought it was interesting.

Something else which has happened since my last participation in this thread ... is that I've bought a diminutive .380 ACP. A Ruger LCP, to be exact.

While I have more than half a dozen 5-shot J's from which to choose, I've come to find that there are still times when I can't effectively conceal one of them while wearing some of my tighter jeans (due to pocket size variations). I know, I know, I can always choose to dress around whatever retirement weapon I wish to carry.

It's just that I don't always want to have to choose my manner of dress based upon concealing a weapon. (Spare me the "comforting v. comfortable" comments, as I'm well aware of the meaning and broader implications. ) There are times I want to dress comfortably while enjoying the attractions of the local beach communities in warm weather ... and I don't really care for the IWB/belly band/appendix carry/groin holster, etc.

Anyway, a long time friend of mine (more than 40 years), also another firearms instructor, sheepishly admitted one day that he'd bought a LCP. (Sheepishly, because he usually carries a pair of handguns off-duty, and now retired, and has always been a .357 Magnum, .45, .40 & 9mm shooter.)

He'd been listening to a growing number of the people at his agency who were very satisfied with the little LCP, so he tried one. He's been surprised by how handy, reliable and accurate the little pistol has been for him.

I checked around and found other guys closer to home who has also been happy with the little LCP. I finally picked one up.

Handy. Fits where one of my J's won't. Lighter.

I've tried Win 95gr T-Series, Speer 90gr GDHP & Rem 102gr BJHP ... and some Win flat point ball ... and the little gun has demonstrated itself to be surprisingly accurate.

The sights are rudimentary & minimal, making the thin black post & notch of the older J's look generous. Not the easiest to pick up and use, especially using on an outdoor night range, in & out of light & shadow ... but when I took a moment to acquire them, the little gun cut ragged little cloverleaf groups at 5-7yds. Indexed nicely at closer ranges, too. Respectable groups out to 20yds.

Given a choice, I'd still rather have one of my .38's for the heavier bullet weights, and I can shoot them better at greater distances (meaning out to 40-50yds).

Beats being unarmed, though.

First .380 I've owned in more than 25 years.

BTW, I didn't choose the Bodyguard 380 because it was just a bit larger, and I didn't need (or want) the integral laser.

Now, when I take another driving trip in the near future, I'll probably leave the larger 9's or .40's I normally take along at home ... and take a J-frame and the LCP. The larger .45's & 6-shot steel revolvers stay behind, too.

Things keep changing ...
__________________
Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Last edited by Fastbolt; 01-16-2013 at 05:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #142  
Old 01-16-2013, 04:14 PM
rayban's Avatar
rayban rayban is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ohio/Mich line.
Posts: 218
Likes: 17
Liked 98 Times in 34 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by seagill View Post
I went in the opposite direction. I started out carrying a S&W 908 but wanted something that was lighter, easier to conceal and would allow me the option of pocket carry. I chose the Ruger LCR and haven't looked back. The biggest factor is that I shoot the LCR much better.
As far as capacity, I'm not in law enforcement. I will never have to chase a perp down a dark alley, kick in the door of a crack house or take someone into custody. I also have an option that LEO's don't, I can run away from a bad situation! I also avoid bad areas and seldom even go out after dark.
This all goes to show that there is no one perfect carry option for all, carry what works best for you. Maybe when I get more experience with different weapons I'll change my mind again, but for now I say snubbies rock!
I echo this....except for the going out after dark part.
I've tried them all(carrying) and the 642 is on me to stay.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 01-16-2013, 07:02 PM
Springfeildkid585 Springfeildkid585 is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 487
Likes: 37
Liked 141 Times in 70 Posts
Default

To each his own. I currently carry a 1911A1 and am starting to look at BUGs. I was in my LGS looking at a 3 inch barrel Model 10 they had. When I told the gentlemen behind the counter why I was considering it(though it was a tad long for my purposes), he tried to pull me down towards the alloy-framed "more modern" revolvers. I politely told him "no thankyou" and moved on. I like feeling my weapon is there, knowing when the weight is missing, I like steel. Some people like autos, some like revolvers. I, like the little girl from the Old El Paso comercial, say "Why not have both?"
__________________
Just the opinion of a kid
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 01-16-2013, 09:15 PM
Old TexMex's Avatar
Old TexMex Old TexMex is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South of the Nueces
Posts: 9,273
Likes: 23,812
Liked 20,090 Times in 5,871 Posts
Default

So the point of all this is... Revolvers are old fashoned, out of style and not just untacticool, but don't deliver enough rounds downrange. Got it.
__________________
Halfway and one more step
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #145  
Old 01-16-2013, 10:37 PM
MP1518 MP1518 is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 12
Liked 535 Times in 209 Posts
Default

This is an interesting topic.

I have been packing a handgun (and other firearms) most of my adult life.

Carry on and off duty for the last 20 years.

As far a CCW goes , I feel just fine with my three inch model 65 (and a couple of speed loaders).
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #146  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:18 AM
Poohgyrr's Avatar
Poohgyrr Poohgyrr is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Retired to South Carolina
Posts: 868
Likes: 2,548
Liked 231 Times in 119 Posts
Talking

For what it's worth, sometimes capacity, by itself, is meaningless.....

I do better with some handguns/rounds than with others. And there are legal considerations regarding what I can or can't carry. And medical issues. And so on....

Pistols: revolvers, autoloaders, TC Contenders, derringers - whatever - each has strong & weak points.

Rounds on target count. Different guns for different reasons. Use whatever works best for you.

My two cents and worth every penny........
__________________
July 4, 1776 not Jan 30, 1909
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #147  
Old 01-17-2013, 09:42 PM
mbliss57's Avatar
mbliss57 mbliss57 is offline
US Veteran
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Desert South West
Posts: 5,540
Likes: 7,356
Liked 8,688 Times in 2,312 Posts
Default

I am a civilian. Ex- military but still a civilian since the 1980's. So my choices are made strictly for self defense or sport as far as ownership. I live in a semi rural area with very little crime. I still carry most of the time. Always a J frame in pocket or ankle and sometimes a 3913 or 4513TSW...whatever I pick out that day...I really like my Sig P239 in 357 sig...all on the hip.
In reality I expend a lot of time training at the range and reading on self defense...but my true need where I live is probably a J frame in .38 spl or .357 at best.
I personally love guns and the sport of shooting.
As far as SD I prepare for the worst and pray I never encounter anything.
I respect and admire all of you in LE that carry your weapons as a service to protect. Your posts are always interesting and informative. Thank You.
__________________
John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 01-18-2013, 01:18 AM
C Islander C Islander is offline
Member
Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry Goodbye Revolvers for Defensive Carry  
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 10,129
Likes: 1,758
Liked 1,348 Times in 986 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MP1518 View Post
This is an interesting topic.

I have been packing a handgun (and other firearms) most of my adult life.

Carry on and off duty for the last 20 years.

As far a CCW goes , I feel just fine with my three inch model 65 (and a couple of speed loaders).
Couldn't agree more!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1911, 357 magnum, 380, 627, 640, airweight, ccw, centennial, colt, concealed, glock, kramer, m60, m66, m686, model 10, model 19, model 60, model 686, remington, ruger, sig arms, snubby, tactical, transition

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Am I saying goodbye to Smith revolvers? Farmer17 The Lounge 29 03-02-2017 01:01 AM
Big Critter Self Defensive Carry Handguns flyerdoc Concealed Carry & Self Defense 38 04-27-2016 04:41 PM
When do you change your concealed carry defensive ammo? biglos Ammo 23 10-28-2014 07:27 PM
How Many Defensive Guns You Carry? fknipfer1 Concealed Carry & Self Defense 73 05-16-2010 10:10 AM
29-2, 629; finest pair of defensive revolvers available! AZ Shooter S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 11 10-20-2008 06:28 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:58 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)