I get a lot of the "what if" which is rare and doesn't happen. Well who uses the "what if" scenarios and if it is so bad why do people use it?

The "what if" is used in education to determine students understanding of the subject. By asking a question in a different way or in a different scenario the teacher can test the student's comprehension.

The Swat teams for law enforcement use the "What if" scenario to train there officers to prepare to use force in a hostage situation. They don't tell officers all the time in advance what is going to happen in a training event. In fact they must be able to discern between the bad guys and the innocent people when shooting.

Driver Education uses the "what if" scenarios to train young drivers to avoid accidents. A ball coming across the road and the youngster running to fetch the ball.

"What if" scenarios can be used in astronaut training so that the crew can prepare for emergencies should something happen. I remember the Apollo 13th flight when the crew were faced with serious problems with the spacecraft.

Yes "What if" scenarios are used to train people in self defense. What would you do if somebody was following you in a car?

Krav Maga uses what ifs to train students to handle sudden attacks. The students aren't always briefed on what the assailant may do during practice.

Under attack our adrenalin will kick in and people generally can't think straight. If you have examined and practiced the so called "what ifs" you can be more prepared to respond to an emergency. If you wait until 0 hour you may not come up with a plan in time to save your life. The "what ifs" help to show someone's understanding of what to do in an emergency. The so called "what ifs" are important in a lot of ways. Einstein was good at the "what ifs" because he was able to think outside the box. This one characteristic contributed to his greatness. The stock Market Crash in 1929 where the country and people weren't ready for such an event and maybe if somebody was concentrating on the "what ifs" it may have led to more regulation which could have avoided the terrible consequences of this event.

Haven't we heard enough of this ****?

Massad Ayoob is very quick to encourage prcticing for what-ifs. Including what to say when you dial 9-1-1, when you talk to the cops, but especially in- what if someone knocks on your door and- his idea being as you said, if you practice with each what-if enough, even if the actual scenario is similar- but different- then you're one step ahead of the game. Since the thug already knows what HE's doing, we need to practice just to try and keep up.

What ifs are only valuable when the information that comes with it is valuable. Some state opinion as if it were fact, and select sources that are questionable and accept them as fact. Developing scenarios that require thought and enable thoughtful discourse are great and I encourage them. Posing a scenario and then offering a hypothesis as fact is at best confusing to newcomers and at the worst, cause for someone to get injured or worse.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

good what ifs ...
what if your in a restaurant and a pair of thugs enter brandishing weapons?
do you engage immediately, or wait until you can determine for sure that they are robbing the place or just protesting about the quality of food.
What if, while fueling your vehicle you find people converging upon you?
do you make ready to draw or do you put out your smoke per store policy?
What if you and your wife are walking to the car and find a few thugs waiting for a target in the parking lot?
do you fall back to a firing position and call in the cops hoping they do not follow or do you trip the missus and use her as a benchrest so as to get better shot placement on their knee caps?

these are common and likely as engagements go.
odd ball what ifs such as a car load of gang bangers running you down outside the crack house Im sure we all manage to avoid just isnt a likely scenario and thus can be omitted

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it just needs more voltage

Pulp Fiction has your answer.

I think I'll watch that tonight... it answers many what ifs.

I made mention of the "what ifs" because of the feeling that they don't exist, aren't likely to happen, they are odd ball incidents, which I don't agree with. Hence the need for a general plan. If someone is waving a gun you generally run or take cover first. The criminal or attacker is not going to respond all the time the same way. If this is the case there would be a much less risk of defending yourself because you know what they are going to do before they do it. Another good scenario of the " "what ifs" was 9/11 when the terrorists crashed their planes into the Twin Towers in New York City. Nobody in their wildest dreams imagine that this could happen here. The US, for the most part, had been sheltered against a lot of attacks from terrorists who were attacking in Europe. By the way when you go across borders in Europe armed soldiers, with automatic weapons, go on the trains to check everybody's passport. If there is a strike in France they call out the armed forces with automatic weapons to patrol the trains. I think now we have tightened our security here after 9/11.

What if I had to perform an emergency surgery on someone?

Without the proper training it's all a moot point.

Your instincts will probably guide you on what to do all on their own, and your training will be it's equal partner, that is if you have enough, training that is.

I wouldn't be surprised if, no matter how hard you ran the what if's through your head, you ended up reacting in a way you never even imagined.

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Ogy

What if we haven't?

"What if" scenarios are an important part of visualization training as long as they are based in plausible, probable situations. The problem starts, IMO, when you see them become the center of "debate" on forums such as these.

In reality, a "what if" scenario can only be analyzed with subjectivity (in a forum environment) up to the point of the last "known". For example, using the example given in a post above:

"....what if your[sic] in a restaurant and a pair of thugs enter brandishing weapons?...."

This "what if" scenario, and the way it was presented, leaves us with HUGE information gaps. We can only intelligently discuss our possible responses to the situation up until the point that the thugs "enter, brandishing weapons". Everything after that point in the incident is completely unknown and requires pure speculation and conjecture to make any further comments regarding our possible response/non-response. We don't know where we are sitting/standing/moving in relationship to the "thugs", we don't know if the "thugs" have made any verbal threats or demands, we don't know what kind of "weapons" the "thugs" are armed with, we don't know who else is in the environment, we don't know whether or not we have family/friends with us, we don't know if we are close to an emergency exit, and we don't know a hundred other things that are all entirely relevant to formulating what our response (whether appropriate or inappropriate) should/would be. Heck, we don't even know if we are armed under the context in which the "what if" was presented.

This kind of "what if" scenario would require us to make so many huge assumptions, that it would be nearly impossible for anyone to recommend a valid direction that one should take. That is why "what if" threads usually dive off into silly/stupid/crazy/nonsensical shortly after they start.

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NRA Pistol,PPITH,PPOTH&TASER

what if we never do

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it just needs more voltage

In the original OP all of your examples are examples of people who are being taught to think on their feet, not run through a bunch of what ifs so they have a rote response. Yet, you are so obsessed with you own point of view you miss that fact. Battle is fluid, plans never stay the same, whether it's on a street and one on one or a war. Specific skill practice, situational awareness and the right equipment are what you can do beforehand. The rest is improvisation based on your skill set etc.
I wonder if you won't freeze up and over think all of your options if the real world ever enters your world until your options are closed.

I don't see your what ifs as training tools, so much as ego trips on your part for many of the reasons Cshoff lists. Ogy made some good points as well. That's why you get so much push back from many on here. JMO.

The problem with "what ifs" and the reason why I despise them is that you cannot prepare for every single "what if".

If you condition yourself to certain "what if" scenarios then the "what if" that does happen to you will be a different "what if".

Certain things need to be practiced and discussed. Such as flying and inflight or ground emergencies. There are only so many things that can happen. If it does then get out the checklist and do what it says.

On the street or in your home, obviously a checklist ain't gonna help.

Again for the umpteenth time, Situational Awareness, Mindset, and Readiness. Be ready for anything. Not just certain things. Be flexible but above all, act/react when everyone else is standing there wondering what's going on.

When your out and about, know your surroundings. Know where cover and/or concealment is. Observe. Take everything in. Make a decision. Get outta dodge or prepare to defend yourself.

Concentrating on the above instead of trying to overcomplicate things will save you.

Now, are we done with these threads? They are getting annoying.

Another point.

Every single LEO here on this forum has been put in the unenviable task of reacting to these "what if" scenarios. It's part of the job. It's required of them and they are expected to perform whether they want to or not.

They already know how they will react when many of us who have never been put in a situation of emergency or self defense will never know until it actually happens.

So we can say that we would do this or do that. We won't know until it happens and it sure won't happen like we thought it would. Some of us fold under pressure and some of us think quickly on our feet. Normally those that think quickly and can make a good decision quickly are those who prepared mentally. And naturally the more experience you have, the easier it is to act under pressure.

Anyone here who has experienced such a thing can think back and tell you what thier initial reaction was and what they did immediately afterward.

Did you run? Did you cower? Did you hide? Did you run blindly towards trouble? Or did you meet the crisis head on and solve them problem?

There is no right or wrong answer.

I would just point out that many LEO's and former combat vets will tell you, despite the fact that they faced multiple "what if" life-threatening situations, and despite the fact that they had experience to draw on, they were still unable to predict their actions/reactions as each new situation came up. Something as simple as how much sleep/how good a sleep a person got last night, can play a big factor in how that person reacts to a given situation. Just one more reason why counting on "what if" scenarios to provide anything more than good visualization training, doesn't really stand up to reality.

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NRA Pistol,PPITH,PPOTH&TASER

Sure, good point. I was speaking as if things were near perfect as one could hope because even in ideal situations, nothing is certain.

Now that I think of it, my grandfather (WWII, Korea) and my father (Vietnam) told me of such things.

My WWII vet Grandfather did the same. He fought in the Pacific theater. Sometimes they ran, sometimes they fought, and sometimes they fought then ran or visa versa....lol.

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NRA Pistol,PPITH,PPOTH&TASER

Yup, they told me the same.

Yes, I have.

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Marty 4513TSW 13-1 642 60-10