The above is what I think Robin Williams once described as a "massive vowel movement".

That aside, if Tasers or mace were a good sole line of defense, cops wouldn't carry firearms.

I work very hard to avoid interactions of any kind with police or the criminal justice system.

I try even harder to avoid interactions with embalmers.

That's why I carry a firearm.

Barring a "Fringe"-like blurring of parallel universes, you're very unlikely to encounter Trayvon Martin. Nor are you likely to (unless you intentionally do so) have an encounter similar to that between Zimmerman and Martin.

Not to put too fine of a point on it, what transpired between Martin and Zimmerman is of the UTMOST irrelevance to my right and need to defend myself.

As I noted above, I do my very best to avoid police and the courts. I am however absolutely unwilling to ALLOW myself to be maimed or murdered to that end.

A good lawyer can talk you out of most any legal scrape. NOBODY can talk you out of your grave.

...and if this does happen, it will happen overwhelmingly where mere citizens have little or no right to defend themselves.

Ever watch some of those "caught on tape" shows?
the tazer isnt a bad piece of hardware .. when you can use it but the pepper spray ... when you have one that really needs it, it dont seem to work.

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it just needs more voltage

I view Tazers and chemical sprays as less lethal ways to APPREHEND someone.

I'm not a cop; I don't want to be a cop; I don't want to do what cops have in their job descriptions. I don't want to apprehend ANYBODY.

I strenuously avoid people and situations which commonly attract physical violence. I stay away from places where people get drunk or high. I especially stay away from places where people do that and physically assault each other.

If I can, I'll WALK away from a threat. If I can't, my attempt has satisfied the law and any personal preferences. After that, my assailant has voluntarily assumed any risk for harm that comes to him.

I absolutely refuse to incur one iota of risk to protect somebody else from his own freely made bad choices. Fortunately, Ohio doesn't try to make me do so.

A good choice for you.

Emory

Don't know about Miami and Florida, but it won't happen in Texas. Texans do have the right to defend themselves and defend their property, especially at night. Even collection agents had a petition out to change Texas laws because repo guys were being shot. And even now we have people coming down to Texas wanting to change our laws to something like they have in Chicago Utoipia. I only own handguns myself,
but if I really thougth trouble was coming I might buy a few longuns, and/or shotguns. It does anger me greatly to see
some on the news media, wanting to strip away our SYG laws.

I don't think I would normally follow a felon, but the other day
someone sideswiped my vehicle but kept going accelerating away. I did follow them, and it was at night. I only wanted to
get their tag number but they stopped and got out. Fortunately they just brought their insurance papers. Had I not followed I think they would have just kept going. No pencil, no paper inside my car.

One thing I have learned from all this recent attention, is I now have the name, and phone number of a criminal defense attorney with a good reputation where I live. I plan to see what
kind of retainer fee he has to keep him on retainer.

I think when the trial gets underway we'll learn more evidence...in both directions.

With that said, I'm a Florida resident and glad to have "stand your ground" on the books but I still have to remember that all prosecuting attorneys have the right to question and can prosecute for "intent"... intent meaning intent to kill not just defend yourself. Really fine line. This is sort of lame but my CCW course had a former prosecuting attorney present the "legal" side of CCW responsibility. Here's his put... shoot someone with a 22, 32, 380 and the "intent" scale is tipped more toward self defense. Shoot someone with a 9mm or larger and the scale may tip more toward intent to kill. I said it was lame but true. Another put from him was, never pursue or chase. You can "stand your ground" but you can't advance your ground. Again, a fine line. One last point, the two in the chest, one in the head technique will raise questions. Also, any modification of a firearm that may limit or remove factory safety will tips the intent scale toward intent to kill and will result in close attention from the prosecutor.

I questioned the "two in the chest, one in the head" issue and his answer was, don't make it look planned, put them all in the body or all in the head area. Never in the back of either.

George

I may leave mine at home and in the car for awhile also.

Fortunately, such "thinking" would be considered weird and aberrant here, even by most laymen.

In a recent and widely discussed shooting in a Dayton area gas station, two drug addled morons jumped a guy pumping gas. Neither was armed. They hit him from front and rear. The victim managed to break free and put two rounds of .45acp, one each of "Pow-R-Ball" and 230gr. FMJ into one of his assailants, who folded like a paper towel.

The victim was not charged with ANYTHING, and under the circumstances, probably wouldn't be ANYWHERE in Ohio, including Cleveland.

In Cleveland, another little moron tried to rob a guy on his own front lawn a few years ago. He ate some .40 S&W and is now taking an extended dirt nap. Apart from his mutant family and degenerate "posse", very few people have expressed any sympathy for the deceased. Caliber was never an issue AT ALL.

I've never been to Florida. I can say that in Ohio, nobody much cares WHAT you shoot somebody with if you have a reasonable and immediate fear of life and limb. Around here, the theory is that if you don't make people think you NEED to get shot, you won't get shot with ANYTHING, be it a 2.75mm Kolibri or a .500 Linebaugh.

(former prosecuting attorney) Here's his put... "shoot someone with a 22, 32, 380 and the "intent" scale is tipped more toward self defense. Shoot someone with a 9mm or larger and the scale may tip more toward intent to kill. "




This thread started off kinda lame...Nows it gone off the chart. Gees....

Some will prepare to defend themselves and others won't.

The Darwin Awards will do the cullin.

Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

GeorgeP, if you disarm yourself, that's a victory for those against the 2nd amendment.

Worse than that, it's a victory for EVIL.

It's not just conceding that the predators are more powerful, but that they have a RIGHT to BE predators.

The idea that ANYBODY has a duty to be viciously exploited by a violent criminal, be it a robber, rapist or murderer is PUREST evil.

Oh, I'm not disarming. I have three 9mm and a 1911, plus a double sawed off 20 stached around the house and a 380 in each car. When I carry it's either my Bodyguard in a belt holster or a KT P32 in a pocket. I really can't go out the house without my P32...feel naked.

GeorgeP

On previous threads several of us have warned about George's type of prosecutors. there are too many simply out to make a name for themselves, and if they think they can advance their career on a SD shooting, and if it happens to come by way of "he used a deadly 45 instead of a 22.." the prosecutor doesn;t care how, just if. Prosecutors, in most cases, are wannabe politicians- and we know about THEIR view of truth and HONOR. Sad but true. HONOR is a rarely used word these days- such a valuable word, someone should reinstate it. Somehow I don't think anyone in Washington DC will.

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

In Ohio deadly force is deadly force.

If you were justified in using a .22 short, you were justified in in using a .44 Magnum.

If you weren't justified in using a .500 Linebaugh, you weren't justified in using a .25acp.

It's just as simple as that.

http://hosted.ap.org/specials/intera...-affidavit.pdf

go to the address above. You may to have cut and paste. without comment this is the actual probable cause affidreavit sumittted by investigators. this PC affidavit lead to charges of Murder in the Second Degree against Zimmerman...any cops or lawyers who want to comment would be interesting...

I don't use this overused word often but it does seem appropriate here....
Whatever.

Brain first......gun.....maybe.......

Need I say more?

TAKJR

I don't know what actually happened. I'm guessing that will be brought out during the legal proceedings. But it pushes my memory back to the security guard - Richard Jewell in Atlanta at the olympic games and the bombing there. The FBI and the lamestream media had him convicted prior to any court appearance and the media was running to his mother's house right behind the FBI to "witness" the execution of the "search warrant" and subsequent arrest of the "felon".

I was in a media "public information class" at the state police training academy at the time and the "Richard Jewell" case was brought up by some airhead "electronic newscaster" giving her spin on this. One guy stood up and called her out. He said "what case - he hasn't been charged with anything". She ignored the question and the same guy stood up again and asked the question - "What if he's not the guy?" She assured him Jewell was the guy and would be convicted. The p.o.'s response - "based on what?"

Needless to say - not the finest hour for the FBI or CNN or The Atlanta Journal & Constitution. Richard Jewell has passed away but he was a very wealthy man at his passing.

If Zimmerman is found "not guilty" or the case is pitched the media, Rev. Al and Jesse better get their checkbook out!

I can't figure out why this thread went past:


"Okayyyyyyyy......"

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett