Criminals expecting truth in my statement are in for a surprise. Even though I will hang up my legally obtained and legally concealed S&W Bodyguard 380 pocket pistol during this teachable moment, tougher Americans more comfortable with laws and consequences remain in full force. I accept my experience in firearm litigation and will acting accordingly.

Target me? Well, my 50,000 V tethered twins are ready to take 30 seconds off your existence (fire, drop and run C2 Taser). Since my original, .22 short, defense idea was explained to be lethal force, the electric tranquilizer darts and keychain mace will keep me safe, from criminals, and from America, the fine country I never want to experience banishment from.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

X35..................................

PUI maybe?

I'm still carrying. North Carolina state law and the Second Amendment of The Constitution say I can.

Or maybe one of these, don't forget the tactical pen.

Did we forget our meds this morning?

Hmmmmmm, given your post it's likely good that you did "hang up" your gun.

Be safe.

Sorry I didn't come right out and say it. My post is regarding Zimmerman's criminal charge Murder II. So, until I gain a little more knowledge about how The United States is operating, and facts of the case, I'm going to hold off public carry of lethal force. Taser, ha ha I shouldn't have brought that up in a S&W form.

Confusing. Why would you let the misfortunes of someone else dictate what you do?

If you don't know the laws regarding concealed carry and the legal use of force then by all means, leave the gun at home.

If you doubt your ability, get training.

Otherwise, strap on the gun and go confidently but quietly.

Until the criminal trial is over... Civil lawsuits were stressed in my CCW course, and since we would follow the law through training, the bad guy is the criminal. If Zimmerman's story is accurate, a taser would have been more appropriate, wouldn't you say?

With as many guns sold over the last 3.5 years and the growth of CCW, the powers at be are doing something about a population coming too close to what the Constitution envisioned. "Whoever they are" pumped up this radar blip of a case and elicited help from a very vocal / lockstep demographic. The public is eating this up perfectly. Even if no gun laws change, liberalizing of criminal charges will just another deterrent to carry lethal force.

I'm sorry, I noticed you have a politics forum, maybe I should have shared my action/opinion there. Moderator, your call on moving the thread.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

What's that old saying - Better judged by 12 then?

Stay armed, but call 911 and leave it at that (if you can do so, safely).

Don't 'put yourself" in a situation that the police are supposed to handle.

Watch? Call 911. Continue to watch (if you like). Leave it at that.

TAKJR

Carrying LETHAL force, does NOT mean causing "death" with it!
The Zimmerman case is an example of what NOT to do, even if being an armed security guard!!

Legally, Zimmerman "could" follow someone suspicious, but only to a certain point. Meaning, not all the way to Kansas! (for example) and certainly NO confronting!

When the 911 operator said, "We don't need you to do that", should have been read as, "We want you to STOP following him"!

WHY? Because NO crime had or was being committed by the 17 year old! Even the Police would not have had enough grounds to do a "Terry Stop"....except that Zimmerman called 911 and said he looked suspicious.

None of this should have ever happened.

Carry on! The law will be on YOUR side if YOU follow the law, and use common sense.

Let's wait until the facts come out. Remember Zimmerman said he got out of his vehicle to see where the kid had gone so he could relay that information to police and he was jumped by the kid.

If that story holds up, he was within the law to get out of his vehicle, he was within the law to look down the alley, and he was within the law to defend himself against attack.

And if we're lucky you'll find a taser forum where you can share your "teachable moment"s.

Zimmerman violated one of the basic rules- don't go lookin' for it, you just may find it. Shoulda called the cops and left it at that. He still may be innocent, as we've all said we don't know at this point. I would imagine the OP was havin' a little fun at first, and I'll give it a rest. But good posts gentlemen- I also think that if we don't feel comfortable carrying we certainly should hang up the holster. I feel plenty comfy...

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

Proud to break the monotony of repeated "should I buy this" questions and other same ol's.

OT, I know, but Bevo1, where did you get that picture of james arness as a boy?
I suppose we all have guess`s as to how that shooting went down but I will wait to hear what comes out at the trial. What does bug me though is the usual suspects stirring the pot before any real info was released.
As far as SD go`s, I doubt most people carry a law book with them to say "kings" while I thumb through here and see if it`s legal for me to save my life! Either you have to or dont. If I ever have to fight for my life I will, and worry about the legalitys after.

Why ... from the details that can be taken as fact the zimmerman case goes one of two ways.
one way, he was foolish in his actions and did not break off thus escalating an issue to lethal force out of his ignorance.
second way, he was spoiling for a fight and stalked the kid till he had what in his mind would be a good shoot.

either way his chances flop between slim and none.
I strongly feel he will be an example of the how not to carry and employ arms.

what does this mean to us? Not a whole lot. Zimmerman is only one out of hundreds of thousands with CCW permits.
nearly all of whom do so with sensibility. Zimmerman is an exception.

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it just needs more voltage

rrick, with all due respect Sir, l don't plan to exercise "rollover" attitude as you apparently have because of the poor judgement of a CCW in the state of Florida, or anywhere for that matter. This "The government might get me if I ________________________ (fill in blank here)" attitude is , in my estimation a great part of the problem with our country as it exist today. I will not give up my freedom of "LIFE, Liberty, and the pursuit------" of for any reason. I will continue to carry and protect myself and family as I have had to in the past. Only the best to you Sir. May I suggest wasp and hornet spray as a backup?

Regards

Bill

Zimmerman is being tried in the court of public opinion. I don't have any of the facts and prefer to let the criminal justice system in FL work through this. What happened is sad to say the least, but should serve as a teachable moment for everyone who legally carries.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I just watched zimmermans court appearance. He is a smaller type guy. I am guessing trayvar martin was more athletic, younger, probley more confident, streetwise and agressive.
Zimmerman followed him when he didnt have to. He probley felt he didnt want to lose him for the police. Martin called him out and thumped him. Zimmerman was now over his head and felt he had to kill him in the fracus. Yes the event should never had happened.
Martins record if he ever had one, wont be allowed. There supposedly is a witness or two that said they seen martin on top zimmerman.
Mistakes were made by all. Zimmerman should have demanded medical treatment and pictures made of his injurys. Since he didnt, in a shooting and the resulting death, I belive a good cop or detective should have thought of it.
The biased reporting along with the hoodie thing in congress and the usual adjitaters (jackson and sharpton), and black panthers putting a bounty on zimmermans ears are all a bad mix along with the president`s comments. Now its all political and racial when likely it shouldnt be either. With all that in court if this goes bad for zimmerman he will have a big argueing point that he didnt get a fair trial!
It will be interesting but aggervateing to watch this develope.

My mother always said to me:

"If you're looking for trouble you will find it"

Now that she is gone, I know how wise of a woman she really was.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Not gonna stop me from carrying when I feel the need.

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Blessed be the Lord,my Rock

Weird how we find out how much we learned- way after they taught us, isn't it. Same with my Dad. One of his best lessons, never gamble more than you can afford to lose.

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

Let's see now if I get this straight. Because ONE CCW holder possibly made a misstep (or an error in judgment), the OP is reluctant to carry anything lethal for fear that if he carries and potentially acts in a perfectly legal and justified manner using lethal force, he will be criticized or attacked in the press, by various biased groups or politicians, and possibly charged with a crime.

In my book, that meets the definition of a phobia - an unreasoning fear of an object, situation or something possibly happening.

To have one's own legal actions and rights influenced by events, groups, politicians or the lamestream media is in my opinion very ill-advised. Giving up one's best means of personal security for such things only reflects muddled reasoning. Threats on the street are real, and no one should be looking for trouble, and in fact should avoid situations where it may occur. But if defending oneself against potentially lethal danger is legal, then by all means, have the best means possible to do it. There are too many instances of motivated criminals tossing off pepper spray and stun guns and doing injury to others. In most cases the mere display of a gun will stop them in their tracks, and if that doesn't do it, pulling the trigger will be not only legal but justifiable.

If the OP does not wish to carry a firearm, I stand up for his right to make that choice. If he does not wish have a means of lethal force to protect himself, I would be last to urge him to do so. It IS a free country, or mostly so - the last time I checked.

I just don't think what happened is reasonable justification for that action, and it's not a course I would personally take.

My two cents worth.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Here is what we all know about the Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case. Nothing...absolutely nothing. We do not know the evidence or lack of evidence. We only know what the press has fired us up about....By that I mean fired those of us who believe in self defense and those who believe Zimmerman was a loon with a gun out to shoot black kids.
We all need to step back and chill and see how the court hearings go.
But this is one thing I do know. I spent 25 years as a LEO in the Great State of Florida. Florida is unique in that criminal charges can be brought by a State Attorney by "Information" or by Indictment by a Grand Jury. I have never seen a homicide filed by information that was not a vehicle homicide resulting in a traffic accident. All other homicides were taken to Grand Juries and especially those cases where Self Defense was claimed. This is the first I have seen where a direct filing was undertaken. I have even seen Grand Juries indict for 1st degree murder and the SAO reduce and file only Second degree, but they have done so at trial or preliminary hearings. I worry that the "special prosecutor" reacted to media and public pressure. I am annoyed that not one member of the press (do we even have a press anymore) asked her why the self defense claim was not taken to a Grand Jury. so I'm asking now...Why Not.

sure we have some facts
he had to exit a vehicle to read a street sign after observing a kid acting erratically and he shot him ..

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it just needs more voltage

I was going to go with num-chucks in the meantime.

Then I thought better of it.

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WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

I will carry so long as I have breath and HB 218 is in force. I am a law abiding citizen and refuse to allow others to be in charge of my safety. You do as you see fit.

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Run Fast, Bite Hard!

I have no idea what really happened...but I do know that if he is found not guilty, it will not be enough for the Sharptons of the world who claim all they want is a fair trial (fair meaning guilty)...cities will go dark, windows will be smashed, and irate people looking for justice will settle for free big screen TVs sans the warranty....that you can take to the bank.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

That is very interesting. I wonder how long it'll be before Ms. Corey is running for office...

It's very sad that something as tragic as this incident is being used to push so many agendas and being taken advantage of by so many.

I was going to "like" your post, but decided to go old-school and decided to "+1" it.

Spot on man, spot on.

Does this mean you`re not going to wear your Concealed Carry Sash anymore??. Always Carry,Never Tell.

I was about to say, "If he is found not guilty, I can thank God I am not a cop in Florida", but it's not going to matter. It will happen in every town.

It is nice to see everyone posting their opinions (including my own).

Let's just let the system now do its thing.

It will be interesting to see the twists and turns that are bound to happen.

All I have ever tried to express to all is that if you are a neigborhood watch person, understand the rules of that position (in the eyes of a lay person or citizen), follow those rules, understand that the use of DEADLY force will be scrutinized by the CJ system (pro or con) no matter how short or long it takes, and hope to never put yourself in Mr. Zimmerman's like-position.

If someone attacks you defend yourself, but if it reaches to the level of deadly force used by yourself, be prepared for ANY **** storm that may come your way, even if in the end, the courts find that you were legally justified.

The CJ system is the LAND OF OZ I would not want to be in (if I can help it).

TAKJR

Someone asked me what I hoped would happen in this case. My answer is very simple, I hope the honest truth comes out. Not spin and lies, the real honest to god truth. Then let the chips lay where they fall.


I am afraid that we will never know.

Based on the story we were to till this point (dont know if it true or not) It seems Zimmerman started a chain of events.

A policeman friend told me many years ago. Never get out of your car. If you have a situation, yelling verbal threats of violence. Dont get out of the car, drive away if need be.

I tell my CCW students that after an incident, you'll probably lose friends; acquaintances will be scared of you and you will likely be pulled through the mud in the press. Anyone (even the not guilty) are at a great deal of risk when they enter the legal system as a defendant because their fate rests in the judgement of others.

None of the facts in the Zimmerman case have been made public. The trial (if it proceeds) will bring those to the surface if the forensic team investigating the incident did their job properly. That, of course, may or may not be the case. That is another risk that is out of your control.

Zimmerman is in a very costly position. He's been taken advantage of by a publicity seeking legal team that looks like it may have been more publicity seeking than competent. He's said to be dealing with post traumatic stress syndrome, which wouldn't surprise me.

As the facts come out, I hope that he acted within the law, and that his actions were justified. He already has to deal with the issues surrounding taking another person's life. If he's convicted of a crime, he'll have to deal with those penalties, and we'll all have to deal with the publicity surrounding his case.

If you own a gun, and haven't thought through the consequences of using it, I urge you to take competent tactical training. I am a graduate of Massad Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute, and it really opened my eyes when I throught about these issues.

Marc

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Marc

So far the best post on the subject.

exactly .. besides, just how much observation can one apply to a subject while supposedly driving by and expect to have an accurate context. If it looks weird .. keep on truckin and consult with Jack Daniels for a memory wipe if it bothers you

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it just needs more voltage

yup .. he's always good for well thought response

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it just needs more voltage

I carry per the LEOSA. Since I'm retired, I carry to protect my self and family, not to hunt down bandits.

So I really don't see how the Zimmerman case affects me or my carrying.

I think CCW'ing now is more important than ever, especially since the current administration is allowing the lynch mob mentality to continue. The only thing that will stop me from carrying is death, until then my gun stays on my hip.

Just a quick amen to sipowizc- afraid he's right, 'not guilty' are two words that will start a really bad day in FL...and no telling how many days it'll last. Remember Rodney in Calif.?

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

I once posted that you can just shoot someone for punching you in the nose. I was soundly chastised as not knowing what I was talking about when I said that in the academy they told us: "Sometimes you just gotta take an ***-kicking." Zimmerman may very well be found not guilty of 2nd Degree Murder and it may work in his favor that he was charged with this instead of Manslaughter. But the fact remains.....You can't just shoot someone for punching you in the nose...unless you want to end up like this schmuck.

A pun considering all of the police overtime that a riot(s) would entail?

Would be wonderful if the truth comes out. The truth in these cases is always the first casuality of public hysteria and media overcoverage....Truth......to paraphrase a line from a movie. "They cant handle the truth"

http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/Pro...&p=CO+635&ct=e This?