Do you take bullet drop into account?

[686-380]

This is an interesting topic to me because it adds another relevant dimension, regarding over-penetration.

I never even thought about it, until I took a practical physics class. The instructor brought up the subject one day, I don't remember why. He explained that a bullet drops at the same rate, as it would if you dropped it from your fingers. Of course, if you aim it upward, it will climb. That's a whole different equation.

My point? I try to take bullet speed into account when making SD ammo purchases...

[ljnowell]

I'm not sure I follow. If you are talking about long distance shooting, of course I do. I shoot bullseye, at that distance it's pretty irrelevant.

I also shoot informal steel silhouette, at that distance it is most definitely a factor.

[John R]

If you get enough drop in a SD shooting to make a difference, your not going to get away with the shoot.

[racknrider]

I can't see far enough for bullet drop to be an issue for me. I'm guessing , don't have any ballistic tables at hand, that bullet drop would be insignificent inside self defense distances.

[4011]

If you have to worry about bullet drop in SD you have time to seek a safe place shelter and there should be no need to shoot.

[Old cop]

Bullet drop will not be a factor in a self defense situation, I know b/c I've been there.

[federali]

Unless a sniper is gunning for you, you need not concern yourself with bullet drop.

If I have a 9mm or a .40 or a .45 ACP and he has a .30-06, .270 or a 7mm Rem. Mag, it's time for me to pull off a magic trick and simply evaporate into the mist.

[Protected One]

Bullet drop in a distance of 3-10 feet?
Are we talking about a nurf gun battle here?

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by 686-380

This is an interesting topic to me because it adds another relevant dimension, regarding over-penetration.

I never even thought about it, until I took a practical physics class. The instructor brought up the subject one day, I don't remember why. He explained that a bullet drops at the same rate, as it would if you dropped it from your fingers. Of course, if you aim it upward, it will climb. That's a whole different equation.

My point? I try to take bullet speed into account when making SD ammo purchases...

It does, but in that second it takes to drop, it will have traveled 1,000 feet, give or take a couple. . . .

[doc84]

I am more concerned about whether or not the ammo in question shoots to point of aim and if not, where it hits. Know your dope.

[LimaCharlie]

Only if I am returning fire at over 225 yards with my AR-10.

[Maze 686]

Defending myself? Never.
I would not even if I was shooting a rifle, 223 falls maybe two inches at three hundred yards
and heavier bullets like 30.06 rounds 4 inches at 300 yards.

Handguns are for up close and of course will drop faster, but I 'm not shooting them over the 25 yards that
I qualify at.

[federali]

One point to consider: I remember from my .38 SPL. revolver days that when the fad shifted to 110 grain JHPs at about 1000-1100 FPS, these bullets struck lower on the target than the slower 158 grain RN lead or the 148 Grain wadcutters. The higher speed bullet was less affected by the handgun's recoil as it exited the gun more quickly.

Thus, "bullet drop" had to be taken into consideration on handguns with adjustable sights such as the then-popular Model 15s and 19s. Then, many LE agencies still engaged in bullseye shooting at 50 feet.

In reality, this was not really bullet drop although some trainers called it that for lack of a better term.

[chief38]

Unless you are a LEO and are expected to shoot 50 - 100 feet with your handgun, bullet drop at 2 - 10 feet is a non issue IMHO.

[LimaCharlie]

With a 200 yard zero, the .223 drops around 7 inches and the .308 drops around 8 inches at 300 yards. At 500 yards, they drop 45+ inches.

[dtm_oskar]

I believe the OP meant drop after the roud had passed through the intended target.

[686-380]

Originally Posted by dtm_oskar

I believe the OP meant drop after the roud had passed through the intended target.

Or missing the target altogether...

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by dtm_oskar

I believe the OP meant drop after the roud had passed through the intended target.

If using a good hollow point round designed for self defense, this really isn't an issue, as the round will typically stay in the intended target.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by 686-380

Or missing the target altogether...

If in an urban environment and you miss, bullet drop is not going to really come into play either, as you will hit a bystander, a car, a building, etc.

That round is going to hit something before it travels 50 yards.

[ACP230]

Mas Ayoob does a column in American Handgunner.
Some time back he covered a police shooting that took place at
100 yards. The perp had a .303 Brit rifle, if I recall correctly.

One of the officers took him on with a .45 ACP. Because he had
never shot it that far out he held too high. When it was all over
there was a group of .45 holes in the porch boards, or siding,
five or six inches above where the offender had been standing.

The event probably would have ended sooner had the officer with the
.45 had known where his gun shot at that range.

I try a lot of handguns at 25, 50 and, sometimes, even 100 yards.
Even those that are only supposed to work from here to the end of
my living room. :>)

[686-380]

Originally Posted by ACP230

Mas Ayoob does a column in American Handgunner.
Some time back he covered a police shooting that took place at
100 yards. The perp had a .303 Brit rifle, if I recall correctly.

One of the officers took him on with a .45 ACP. Because he had
never shot it that far out he held too high. When it was all over
there was a group of .45 holes in the porch boards, or siding,
five or six inches above where the offender had been standing.

The event probably would have ended sooner had the officer with the
.45 had known where his gun shot at that range.

I try a lot of handguns at 25, 50 and, sometimes, even 100 yards.
Even those that are only supposed to work from here to the end of
my living room. :>)

For me, this is primarily an exercise to identify best/worst vantage points to shoot. Our home is kind of large, with about 50 feet between my bedroom and the entrance I expect to be breached. There's an additional 50 feet beyond that to my neighbors home. The first room is their laundry room - beyond that, I'm not certain. If I missed the round(s) would penetrate a hollow door and either a window or drywall, before entering the neighbors abode...

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by ACP230

Mas Ayoob does a column in American Handgunner.
Some time back he covered a police shooting that took place at
100 yards. The perp had a .303 Brit rifle, if I recall correctly.

One of the officers took him on with a .45 ACP. Because he had
never shot it that far out he held too high. When it was all over
there was a group of .45 holes in the porch boards, or siding,
five or six inches above where the offender had been standing.

The event probably would have ended sooner had the officer with the
.45 had known where his gun shot at that range.

I try a lot of handguns at 25, 50 and, sometimes, even 100 yards.
Even those that are only supposed to work from here to the end of
my living room. :>)

Shooting at 100 yards on the range for fun is one thing, but engaging a person armed with a rifle at 100 yards with a pistol is foolish.

The police officer did it because it is his duty and he used what he had on hand. Very different from a civilian self defense shooting. If I am out with my family and someone starts shooting with a rifle from 100 yards away, I am going to try to get my family out of the area, not be a hero and engage them with my pocket pistol.

[Alpha Sierra]

OP, rather than worrying about exterior ballistics you need to worry about terminal ballistics. IOW, not how much your handgun bullets willd drop but how will they react when they impact the typical materials that make up your house.

Why? Because at those distances your bullets will end up hitting stuff that will either stop them or deflect them before they have had the chance to go far enough for drop to be an issue.

There are several internet resources that show the effects of bullet penetration through common building materials/structures. The Box o'Truth being among the best.

[cyphertext]

Originally Posted by 686-380

For me, this is primarily an exercise to identify best/worst vantage points to shoot. Our home is kind of large, with about 50 feet between my bedroom and the entrance I expect to be breached. There's an additional 50 feet beyond that to my neighbors home. The first room is their laundry room - beyond that, I'm not certain. If I missed the round(s) would penetrate a hollow door and either a window or drywall, before entering the neighbors abode...

Your round is going to hit something before leaving your home... that changes the bullet shape and flight path and bullet drop would no longer be predictable.

[Neumann]

A .45ACP drops about 6" at 100 yards, about 90 yards beyond a reasonable claim of self-defense.

In a handgun, the distance the muzzle rises due to recoil is the greatest factor affecting point of impact. For that reason, heavy, slow bullets tend to shoot higher than lighter, high velocity bullets from the same weapon. This results from a combination of greater recoil impulse and longer time in the barrel.

[shouldazagged]

My SD and HD handguns are both S&W fixed-sight revolvers, with sights regulated for 158 grain bullets. That's what I load them with. But as has been said several times here, if I'm forced to use one of them to defend myself (so far so good, I haven't had to), range is likely to be from 21 feet to mild halitosis distance. Bullet drop will not be a worry.

[gregintenn]

Not as it relates to a conceal carry handgun.

[686-380]

Originally Posted by gregintenn

Not as it relates to a conceal carry handgun.

...as long as you hit your target. If you miss, regardless of caliber, that bullet will hit something.

[Harkrader]

Long ago and far away I was with a group when one member took his FN Hi-Power with S&W adjustable rear sight and hit a small target at about 40 meters. He was resting his hand against the front pillar of a Land Rover. It looked to me as though he had the muzzle pointed skyward like a mortar, but it wasn't, of course. He later demo'd hitting squashes consistently offhand at that distance. He did, in fact, account for bullet drop, equating the squashes with approximately the vital area of a face.

I sight my M1A for about 180 meters/200 yards and hold to the top of a 25cm/10inch gong at 275 meters/ 300 yards with military ball ammo.

One of our sons is professional military and has an AR chambered in 300AAC Blackout. With subsonic rounds he looks as though he is aiming a mortar, and it sounds as though I could almost run downrange and catch the bullet. "PFOOT (he uses a silencer) - - - - -DING!" He has a mil reticle in the scope and has it adjusted for 100, 200 and 300 yards. Heavy bullet, low velocity, long range, lotsa drop.

For any self-defense scenario I can imagine with a handgun, I don't consider bullet drop though I do determine point-blank range for my chosen gun and ammo. It's one reason I like the .357Sig. Very flat shooter.

[Doug M.]

With regard to using a pistol for self-defense at any likely distance: one is about a zillion times more likely to get a low strike from mashing the living heck out of the trigger than anything to do with bullet drop. Bullet drop is a non-issue in this context, about as relevant as the color of one's socks. (Or the lack thereof, if one is wearing sandals.)

If one sights an AR to be POA/POI at 50/200 as is the general rule, from 25 - 225 or so, the trajectory is not a big deal. Sight offset at closer ranges has to be considered, of course. Unless one has the good fortune to be engaging a hostile target at >200-ish yards, where they will have a lot less chance of hitting you, bullet drop will not be much of an issue in LE use, either. A precision marksman's use is out of my lane, but as I recall, the average LE precision shot is actually a lot closer than one might expect.

[RussellD]

Self defense statically will be less than 21 feet. I cant imagine a real life where an "average" person would be using a rifle and concerned about bullet drop.

[Alpha Sierra]

Originally Posted by RussellD

Self defense statically will be less than 21 feet. I cant imagine a real life where an "average" person would be using a rifle and concerned about bullet drop.

I can, but will keep it to myself.

[gregintenn]

Originally Posted by 686-380

...as long as you hit your target. If you miss, regardless of caliber, that bullet will hit something.

Yes....and I can think of very few instances where bullet drop would make a hill of beans worth of difference.

I'll not be firing my self defense handgun unless I'm mortally threatened, in which case the last thing on my mind will be a ballistics chart.

[SMSgt]

Originally Posted by 686-380

I never even thought about it, until I took a practical physics class. The instructor brought up the subject one day, I don't remember why. He explained that a bullet drops at the same rate, as it would if you dropped it from your fingers. Of course, if you aim it upward, it will climb..

It doesn't "climb," it drops less because gravity is not acting perpendicular to the bullets path.

[686-380]

Originally Posted by gregintenn

Yes....and I can think of very few instances where bullet drop would make a hill of beans worth of difference.

I'll not be firing my self defense handgun unless I'm mortally threatened, in which case the last thing on my mind will be a ballistics chart.

Why not take a few minutes now, to assess vulnerabilities?

[Alpha Sierra]

Originally Posted by 686-380

Why not take a few minutes now, to assess vulnerabilities?

What does that ever mean, in the context of this thread (bullet drop)?

[gregintenn]

Originally Posted by 686-380

Why not take a few minutes now, to assess vulnerabilities?

Because you are picking fly feces out of pepper. If you have a fraction of a second to decide "shoot or don't shoot" with your life on the line, does a quarter inch worth of difference in bullet drop at 100 yards really enter into your thought process?

[Hobie1]

Originally Posted by 686-380

This is an interesting topic to me because it adds another relevant dimension, regarding over-penetration.

I never even thought about it, until I took a practical physics class. The instructor brought up the subject one day, I don't remember why. He explained that a bullet drops at the same rate, as it would if you dropped it from your fingers. Of course, if you aim it upward, it will climb. That's a whole different equation.

My point? I try to take bullet speed into account when making SD ammo purchases...

Look up terminal ballistics. If you're buying SD rounds, the manufacturer will have data on all things related to SD and the use of their rounds in such a situation.

BTW, if you can time the release of the bullet from your hand and the time the round leaves the barrel, shooting perfectly level, both rounds will hit the ground at the same time.

Regards,

Hobie

[The Big D]

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT...and I anticipate replies from those who deny the law of gravity. BTW, a bowling ball would hit the ground at the same time as that bullet. As would a bb.

Be safe.

Originally Posted by Hobie1

...
BTW, if you can time the release of the bullet from your hand and the time the round leaves the barrel, shooting perfectly level, both rounds will hit the ground at the same time.

Regards,

Hobie

[elm_creek_smith]

I endeavor not to drop my bullets.

That said, I occasionally shoot my handguns out to 100 yards to know how much front sight to hold over the rear sight. (Not much with .357 Magnums; quite a bit for .38 Specials.)

[Rpg]

I consider bullet drop only to extent necessary to ensure that my line of aim intersects the arc of the projectile at a useful distance.

[Trons]

Originally Posted by Hobie1

Look up terminal ballistics. If you're buying SD rounds, the manufacturer will have data on all things related to SD and the use of their rounds in such a situation.

BTW, if you can time the release of the bullet from your hand and the time the round leaves the barrel, shooting perfectly level, both rounds will hit the ground at the same time.

Regards,

Hobie

Been a while since I was in physics so, please, forgive my ignorance, but I thought that only worked with static items. IE: a ball pushed vs a ball dropped. Once you introduce the spiral of the barrel, and the spin of the round, that no longer was true, because a spinning "bullet" would stay "aloft" longer then a dropped one.

Am I not remembering my physics correctly?

[robertrwalsh]

At any realistic distance bullet drop will not be an issue. Unless you find yourself in the middle of a cow pasture and a guy with a rifle shooting at you. That doesn't happen very often in the real world.

[The Big D]

Back to school for you!

Gravity is the only force that applies.

A bullet fired from a gun, barrel level, will hit the ground at the same time as a bullet dropped at the very moment the bullet leaves the barrel...if dropped from the same height as the barrel, of course.

Better yet, in a vacuum, a feather, cannonball, piano, whatever will all fall at exactly the same speed and hit the ground at exactly the same time when dropped from the same distance.

GRAVITY is the key here.

Be safe.

138052926]Been a while since I was in physics so, please, forgive my ignorance, but I thought that only worked with static items. IE: a ball pushed vs a ball dropped. Once you introduce the spiral of the barrel, and the spin of the round, that no longer was true, because a spinning "bullet" would stay "aloft" longer then a dropped one.

Am I not remembering my physics correctly?[/QUOTE]

[Rick_A]

If your firearm is properly sighted in you've already done so.

Most of my handguns will shoot to about 25 yards with no hold over and the rifles 300.

[DR505]

Just use a .41 magnum...everyone knows it is a laser-beam of death. You won't have to worry about no stinkin' bullet drop.

[Goldstar225]

If I'm using a handgun at such a distance that bullet drop is an issue, I need a rifle just for the improved accuracy.

[elm_creek_smith]

Originally Posted by Goldstar225

If I'm using a handgun at such a distance that bullet drop is an issue, I need a rifle just for the improved accuracy.

What you have and what you need are irrelevant when push comes to shove. I carry a .357 Magnum most of the time and always when I'm traveling. I may not have my rifle, but I'm going to be accurate enough at 100-150 yards to make someone get his head down so I have a chance to move to better cover. (Yes, I practice at 100 yards with my handguns.)

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith

What you have and what you need are irrelevant when push comes to shove. I carry a .357 Magnum most of the time and always when I'm traveling. I may not have my rifle, but I'm going to be accurate enough at 100-150 yards to make someone get his head down so I have a chance to move to better cover. (Yes, I practice at 100 yards with my handguns.)

Is there any defensible 100-150 yard self defense shooting scenario?

[Bundesheer]

Hummm bullet drop.
I ask myself at the moment which distances we talking about.

Home defense. I have one point in the house in which I have both entrances in sight. The longest distance to the utility room door would be 42 feet. The distance to the living room door from the same position, would be 28 feet. That's my HD distance.
I practice this distances with my HD weapons SD9, M&P 40 and PPQ 40..... Going to the shooting range means for me to practice with my weapons the possible distances in my home, including my 12 gauge shotgun.

SD for carry weapons like my Shield, PPS, Taurus Slim,.... I practice a distance of 30 feet. Here is it more important how fast I can place a bullet on a target because a possible aggressor with a knife, etc. can close up 10 yards in less than 2 seconds.

Bullet drop is not an issue in a HD or SD scenario. HP bullets that miss are as bad as a FMJ on a grocery store parking lot. But even on a parking lot the bullet get stopped by light posts, cars before a bullet drop comes in play.
It's a nice hypothetical intellectual game for a reality disconnected classroom scenario that not apply to Handguns in a real world SD or HD scenario.

Outside a SD,HD scenario we practice on a secured shooting ranch - right?