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  #51  
Old 07-05-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAKJR View Post
...If I can carry grenades......I would...
But if you are being attacked in an elevator I would suggest that you use the handgun...
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  #52  
Old 07-06-2012, 04:01 PM
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I always carry Two Guns. I have carried Glocks but, the last few years I have been carrying Snub Revolvers. Usually A Sp101 and a LCR357. I have a few other Snubs I rotate in the mix. If I carry Three, I add one of my 442s.
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  #53  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:38 AM
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Packard

Just to prove a point......and a "Clint Smith"-type joke here......grenades give you more bang for the buck. If you use grenades, you would save a lot on training time....too!



TAKJR

Last edited by TAKJR; 07-07-2012 at 08:50 AM.
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  #54  
Old 07-07-2012, 08:50 AM
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Sometimes I go into to public without any gun at all! Talk about living life on the wild side. Going unarmed in public! Other times I carry one or two pistols and a SOG Falsh II Tanto bladed knife.
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  #55  
Old 07-07-2012, 09:03 AM
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A friend of mine who was a NY City detective in the worst areas of the Bronx once said to me, "A back up weapon is one more gun than that bad guy thinks you are carrying. So the bad guys know that cops carry a back up weapon, I carry one more."

So, if you buy into the idea that you should carry one more weapon than the bad guys think you are carrying, then regardless of what you do for your primary weapon, the back up weapon should be kept secret.

Personally I believe it is best to keep all weapons secret, but I know that there are many out there that don't care who knows that they are carrying. But for the back up weapon, it should be kept hidden from all.
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  #56  
Old 07-07-2012, 06:09 PM
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Never three, always one, sometimes two - MY choice. This is an option;

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Old 07-09-2012, 08:31 PM
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Two. One is a 340PD and the other is a M&P340. Neither is a BUG.
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  #58  
Old 07-10-2012, 02:56 AM
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On duty, two, always. Off-duty I generally carry one. The exception to that is in the winter when my main gun is covered by a coat. Then I will have my 642 in my pocket for easy access.
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Old 07-10-2012, 12:53 PM
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On duty - two always as mentioned above, and quite often a third for "just in case". Off duty - 90% of the time it's still two. The exception would be on vacation somewhere really hot and clothing dictates less - I'd still like to carry two, but just don't have the set up for it.

Yes it is a pain to carry at times, but it's a duty and one happily carried out. Imagine a world where you can't........
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  #60  
Old 07-10-2012, 04:20 PM
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I never carried a backup pistol of any kind and still don't since retiring as LEO.
I did carry a S&W folding tactical knife as a tool more than as backup.

I still carry one concealed pistol (occasionaly an xtra mag) and nothing else.
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  #61  
Old 07-10-2012, 08:35 PM
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I carry one gun, a 627 when I carry on my person or in my car. I used to carry a .40 Taurus. It was far from fail-proof.

The 627 is nearly as fail-proof, high capacity, high/low powered that I need as a civilian. I do carry two moon-clipped reloads.

I plan on keeping the 627 in the car or the home and buying a 327NG for carrying due to weight, night sights, and concealabilty/size. I would only carry two guns, if I was anticipating problems with a known threat. Both of these guns would have to be the same caliber and loading system. Thus, 327NG and 627Pro are a nice match. Maybe throw a 627UDRPC as a third, but I guess I need another $2000 for a pair of smaller revolvers.

Last edited by 627 city hunter; 07-13-2012 at 06:38 PM.
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  #62  
Old 07-10-2012, 09:40 PM
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Primary and a BUG

BUG - Kahr CM9


PRIMARY - Colt CCO
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  #63  
Old 07-10-2012, 10:44 PM
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I carried two guns to work every day for 27 years, and I never need my backup, thank goodness. Now retired when I carry, sadly which is becoming more often than not, I only carry one revolver with a reload in the car. I donít think itís strange or paranoid if someone wished to carry two weapons at all times, unnecessary perhaps. What I do think is over the top is the person who feels the need to carry three full sized autoloaders and a minimum of two reloads for each one; really where do they stash all that stuff and God help them if they ever fall into a lake, talk about sinking like a boat anchor
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  #64  
Old 07-13-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
I understand.

I apologize if I came across wrong. I was a little grouchy the other night.

The word "expert" is source of contention with me. Probably because I've met so many of them.

I am surely no expert myself. And I don't ever want to come across as one. I've carried concealed for 30 years but didn't carry daily until 20 years ago. And I'm still learning and refining the process.

I have three friends that own area gun shops. I worked at one a couple years part time. It was great and I learned much. But I also met some of the sorriest buttheads that ever carried a gun.

And they were all "experts". "I'm ex military so I know what I'm doing" Or "my dads a cop". PLEASE!!

Ive seen and heard some of the stupidest comments and remarks in gunshops.

I worry more about these "experts" just as much as I do bad guys. I don't want to get shot by accident!

And most frustrating is that when you get a concealed pistol license from this state, there is a reference to the Revised Code of Washington which tells you all the do's and dont's. You think they read it? No.

Sorry for the rant. I just wish people would understand and realize how serious this is. If they did, we would't have so many accidental shootings.

And us "older" guys must realize that relying on past experience is smart, but failure to adapt to an ever changing world is not.
Best definition I ever heard of an "expert":

An *******. from outta town.
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  #65  
Old 07-13-2012, 01:00 PM
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Was LEO for 30.5 years and carried 99.9% of all those years...both on and off-duty.

Never carried more than one (1) handgun but did carry an 870 when assigned to patrol and tactical duty.

Retired now for 6.5 years and still carry (per LEOSA) every day. Still; NEVER carry more than one (1) handgun. (Usually have a speed strip in my pocket...and have a speedloader in both vehicles.)

As an aside, in 37 years NEVER have had a (non-intended) malfunction that caused a "fail to fire" or experienced any need for a second handgun.

Be safe.
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  #66  
Old 07-14-2012, 08:05 PM
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I usually carry 2-3 handguns.
Pair of Combat Masters in a dual shoulder rig.
Delta Elite @3:00 in an Adams Holsters IWB or OWB or in a Galco Miami Classic.
S&W M&P45 either IWB or OWB
Kel Tec P11 in a pocket
Astra Terminator .44 Mag and Taurus 445 .44 spl, both owb.
I carry whichever ones strike my fancy that particular day.
Whenever I wear cargos or looser fitting pants/shorts, the P11 is in a pocket.
The Combat Masters also serve pocket duty from time to time.
I also regularly carry my Marlin 1895 STP in the truck.
When I dont have the .45-70 I am likely to have my Sterling with 34 rounds of 9mm.
I hope I never have to fire off ANY of them in a defensive situation, but if I ever do need to... I refuse to be under gunned.


Jim
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  #67  
Old 07-14-2012, 08:15 PM
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I harry two J frames every day. Primary is a 357 Mag loaded with same; BUG is 38 Special. ALL reloads, both speed loaders & speed strips; are loaded with 38 Special for obvious reasons.
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  #68  
Old 07-14-2012, 08:26 PM
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Only carry one at a time. At the moment its a taurus 357 snubby. Most other times its an ATI tactical titan in 45 acp. Sometimes it a Nagant revolver with heavy handloads with a cast bullet. A Polish P 64 sometimes too. I'm familiar and comfortable with them all.
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  #69  
Old 07-15-2012, 08:28 AM
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Almost always, I carry two, a CA 44 Spl, and a second gun, S&W 38 Spl airweight. I figure two revolvers 10 rounds before reaching for a speed loader. That is still less rounds than someone carrying a SA with one magazine. I think if one carries revolvers, there is a greater need to carry a second gun than if they carry a SA. My second gun is so that I can reach for it in situtations where drawing first might be a problem, so it is in a good pocket holster.
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  #70  
Old 07-15-2012, 10:29 AM
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I only carry what I can shoot...







One Right hand...One Left hand.



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  #71  
Old 07-15-2012, 11:37 AM
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9/10 just a G19. I cant carry a trunk gun cause i live on the border of another state (which i often frequent) that does not allow so much stuff that its easier to just not have anything.

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  #72  
Old 07-16-2012, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
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9/10 just a G19. I cant carry a trunk gun cause i live on the border of another state (which i often frequent) that does not allow so much stuff that its easier to just not have anything.

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To live where you live you need a custom button you could push in the vehicle to suction the gun from the trunk, you know like bank tellers use at drive ins. I doubt that anyone would invent one, its easier to move I think.
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  #73  
Old 07-17-2012, 05:24 PM
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I routinely carried my Model 38 as a back-up during my 30 yr. LEO days. In reitrement my orbits are very tame and I only carry one J frame w/a speed strip. The only exception is on a car road trip w/the wife. In those instances a second J frame is carried in the car in case she should need it (she can handle a revolver but refuses to carry).
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  #74  
Old 07-18-2012, 05:48 PM
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On duty two, M&P 40 and M438 in a Mika pocket holster. Off duty the
M438.
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  #75  
Old 07-20-2012, 08:36 AM
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I carry two pistols, a Ed Brown on the hip and a Shield in my pocket. I've had my permit since the early 90s. I think most people WILL need their pistol or be glad they have it, if they carry long enough. I think at that point they may want to start carrying two.

Last edited by dts; 07-20-2012 at 08:42 AM.
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  #76  
Old 07-20-2012, 09:48 AM
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Why carry any gun you dont have 100% faith in?

I carry one although if you feel better carrying several guns great. But I just dont see the point, you can reload faster than draw another small gun. Besides how many rounds do you plan on firing? Most actual self defense cases are up close and over in 3-5 rounds.
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  #77  
Old 07-20-2012, 03:48 PM
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Multiple guns is not always about failure.
It is being able to draw while defending yourself with the other hand.
Not needing to move your primary gun while driving.
Being in an active shooter situation and being able to have one off to friend/family member who is not carrying.

There are MANY reasons to carry more than one firearm.


Jim
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:30 PM
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There was a time many many moons ago!

NY Reload. 2-js where better then 1.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:39 PM
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I work away from home during the week, love to shoot forunately there is a range right down the street from where I am working. The motel room has 2 beds I sleep in one and most of these guys share the other one.


So yes I carry.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:00 AM
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Although I don't currently carry two off-duty guns at a time, I do carry a bug in my shirt, tucked into the straps of my vest when on duty. I'm currently saving for my second J-frame (why did I sell the first one?!). Once I pick it up, I'll start carrying it in a pocket alonside whatever else I'm strapping on for normal off-duty carry. The world is getting crazier by the minute, and I don't want to be the guy who's primary carry piece let him down when he needed it. Hell, I don't use my front left pocket anyway. Might as well put something in it that could be useful.
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  #81  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil One View Post
Multiple guns is not always about failure.
It is being able to draw while defending yourself with the other hand.
Not needing to move your primary gun while driving.
Being in an active shooter situation and being able to have one off to friend/family member who is not carrying.

There are MANY reasons to carry more than one firearm.


Jim
Well said ^ To me, it isn't about reliability issues or changing mags. I carry two because I always want to pocket carry and be able to have my hand on the Shields grip in certain situations, it's important to me.

The Brown on my hip is, so far, the most reliable handgun I've ever had. It has it's role but neither pistol is the primary, both are equal.

Last edited by dts; 07-27-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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  #82  
Old 07-28-2012, 08:15 PM
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I carry 2 guns, unless I'm going into a really bad area, then maybe 3. I know of multiple situations where guys got killed because their primary failed or they were trying to reload and the stress made them too slow.
Odds are, you'll never need the first gun, but you don't carry a gun for probabilities, but possibilities.

642's were made for front pocket carry, then the primary is no big deal. Two gun carry is no big deal or strain. A 3" .357 and a 642 for example are a great combo. The primary can use the 642 ammo. One of my favorite summer combos is a 6906 and a 642.

The BUG is insurance, it's up to you to decide if you want to go to the trouble of it or not. I'm into being prepared to the hilt, but that's just me.
Thank you, I've carried a 386 and a 360 for years... just seems right.
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  #83  
Old 08-01-2012, 03:31 PM
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Kanewpadle, Takjr, Evilone and to a few others:

To me an expert is someone who knows more than most about the topic their discussing. The expert knows the issues involved, the various points of views on those issues, the pro's and con's of the arguments and the basic facts related to the discussion. The expert knows the weaknesses of their own position and that of the other guys. From what I can see by your posts - You guys are experts.

What you described as "experts" are really "know it alls" who don't know it all! As Mr. Eastwood would say, " A man must know his limitations."

I outta know I have a keen eye for spotting talent.

I enjoyed your posts...multiple guns, physical conditions/limitations, availability of a support system, ammo/time need to reload. I would add to the discussion the advantages of carrying the same guns and the same ammo if at all possible. If it was good enough for Wild Bill Hickock its good enough for me.
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Old 08-01-2012, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
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Two. One is a 340PD and the other is a M&P340. Neither is a BUG.
Like your attitude!
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:10 PM
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Its interesting that studies of police shootings indicate that the percentage of police hits are rather low...around 20%...they are probably involved in more complex scenarios than the "typical" civilian self-defense scenario. So this begs the question of what are the basic skills that enhance civilian surviveability? It sure as hell ain't the tactical reload. And if the majority of sd situations occur at very close distances it would seem that speed - quick reflexes is an important element that many oldesters are going to lack or be at an extreme disadvantage. How do we work around these limitations?
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:15 PM
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The last thing I will ever describe myself as is an expert.
Generally I have a 1911 variant on my strong side at or around 3:00.
The secondary... and others... where they fit the best.
I got the M&P45 because it fit well and felt like it took inspiration from the 1911... and it had the thumb safety.
It was also polymer and I wouldnt feel as bad banging it around.
In a semi auto I like the same basic manual of arms.
Unless I have to deep conceal you will generally find my main sidearm in the same spot.
I really dislike the idea of grabbing for a sidearm and not finding it there.


Jim
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:57 PM
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I usually just carry one,but I can run like the wind blows.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:04 PM
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I carry one gun....I hope I never use it. Can't imagine ever needing two.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:27 PM
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I don't carry a back up. Please don't think ill of me. When I carry, it's my Airweight these days with Crimson Trace either in my pocket or OWB. Great gun. Just bought it and we fell in love. Don't tell my wife. Yiogo
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:32 PM
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When I was working uniformed patrol, I always carried 2 guns; 3 when I was working alone at night back when revolvers were the norm. This was in the south-end of Los Angeles. As a detective I continued to carry 2 handguns, except when I was buying narcotics. I then stuffed a J-frame into my pants pocket (no holster), with a cheap pocket knife somewhere on me. Off-duty I never carried two guns; seemed kind of unnecessary. The exception was during the LA riots; I had a .45 and 6 extra loaded magazines, plus boots and other gear in case I had to walk home through the ghetto. I only carry a J-frame now in retirement, same as when I was off-duty before retirement. My apologies to some, but 2 (or more) guns in "normal" citizen carry does seem a little bit of an over-reaction. I've read threads here (and other forums) where the OP carried 2 guns, including something BIG (.44 or .45), 4-5 extra mags, a knife or two, gas, flashlight, extra batteries, back-up gun, more extra ammo for the back-up and a hardened scowl guaranteed to scare babies and widows. My experience is that bad guys don't mess with someone they think might fight back or are armed, which is why gas stations and fast-food joints around police stations are pretty safe (might be an off-duty cop in there filling up or getting something for the ride home). Unlike a uniformed cop, an off-duty copper or a citizen carrying concealed already has the tactical advantage (unless you're an OC Kool-Aid drinker). If you need that much hardware, where the hell are you going? Maybe you should stay home. I only got into two off-duty incidents in 24 years. I didn't go drinking after work and didn't cruise the dark side of town; I went straight home to the ball-and-chain and brats. I think there are exceptions; someone that's a landlord in the bad part of town (I knew one; he carried two guns) or maybe a shop owner in the ghetto. One jewelry store owner in Hollywood I knew had several guns stashed in his store and carried two on his person. For most of us that's fantasyland. Not being critical here, just reminding most that engaging in a little fantasy is fine, but it IS fantasy. It's fun and beneficial at times because situational thinking may cut the "lag time" if something DOES happen. On the other end of the pendulum I knew cops who didn't carry at all off-duty. I thought that was stupid. What's appropriate for you? Not my place to dictate...but I will say that what your plan is during an incident is far more important than what brand of flashlight you carry, or what type of holster you have for your back-up gun. What's your situational awareness upon approach to a potentially risky location? What is your tactical plan AFTER you draw and fire? Remember that someone will ALWAYS be watching or listening...rehearse what you will say to a possible suspect ("Please, I really don't want any trouble" sounds way better coming from a witness than "get lost, asswipe"). This stuff, though boring, is more important than the number of guns, ammo and accessories you have on. I hope I haven't offended anyone; guns are cool and talking about them is why we're all here. My carry choices were made based on what more experienced coppers I worked with had, what I found worked for ME after carrying different guns daily and what I perceived the potential threat to be. It's all a trade-off. I realize I'm relying on past experience and to some here that's not important, but my cop and combat time is all I have. 24 years LE and 2 recent combat tours should count for something. We face new situations based on our experience; training is experience. I'm not deriding anyone for carrying 3 or more guns when they run errands to the Auto Zone or have lunch at Denny's; I just think that it's USUALLY unnecessary. But if you want to go out with enough hardware and ammo to equip a rifle squad, that's fine with me.
Bob

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Old 08-09-2012, 07:20 PM
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To fully understand the word "expert," one must break it down into its component parts. "ex," meaning formerly, used to be, or has-been; and "spurt," which is a drip under pressure. Therefore, an "expert" is a has-been drip under pressure.

On March 6, I had a radical prostatectomy. For a couple of weeks after that, I didn't go out, but I had my Model 37 on me. Once I was mobile, I knew I wasn't going toe-to-toe with anyone for a good while. I couldn't wear a belt due to the laproscopy incisions, so I carried the Model 37 and my Taurus 85SSUL in a double shoulder holster rig. As I got stronger and the incisions healed I started carrying my usual concealed carry guns (Model 37 and Model 13-3 or Model 10-5) in shoulder holsters, gradually returning to belt holsters. On April 15, I returned to work toting my regular duty rig - Model 686-6, 2 double speedloader pouches, Sabre Red Mk3 pepper spray, cuffs, K-Bar TDI serrated knife, and Model 37 in my off side pocket.

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Old 08-10-2012, 04:26 PM
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Either one or two on me (depends what I'm wearing). Usually 2 in the car (one, or both, of which is concealable).
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  #93  
Old 08-11-2012, 03:00 PM
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Carry a 9mm compact M&P in an appendix holster, extra mag is the extended. Use 147 grain. Back up is a 380 Body Guard in a pocket holster with extra mag and run +P Buffalo Bore 90 grain which gives the 380 punch like a 38 SPL. Also carry a very sharp pocket knife. Work in a thirty story Gov't Building with six floors of court and hearing rooms. To save money the metal detectors at the main floor are gone. Now just a rent a cop on the court floors with a wand. A little more mindful now with that change. Carry the same two weapons after hours, same ammo different mags. We have to keep work ammo seperate and accounted for, therefore have two sets of magazines. We can carry what we want and we have to buy it oursleves. Most carry Glock & 9mm. I have always been an S&W fan
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  #94  
Old 08-11-2012, 03:26 PM
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Well written and thought out Bob.

S&W M&P FS 9/357/40/45, 40PRO, 40C, 22LR
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  #95  
Old 08-11-2012, 04:15 PM
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The semi auto for the street and the revolver for church.
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Old 08-11-2012, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan01 View Post
The semi auto for the street and the revolver for church.
Love that J-frame 3" .38 "Church gun". One of my favorites!
Bob


Last edited by OIF2; 08-11-2012 at 07:46 PM.
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  #97  
Old 08-11-2012, 11:01 PM
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Thanks Bob
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith View Post
On March 6, I had a radical prostatectomy. For a couple of weeks after that, I didn't go out, but I had my Model 37 on me.

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Wow - hope you're doing well! God bless.
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:43 AM
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I rarely carried a backup for years. One time a friend asked me a question.

"What are you able to do to protect your family?"

Not what you are 'willing' do, but what are you 'able' to do.

It got me thinking...what do I do if my primary weapon fails, is taken away, etc...

I now carry a S&W 642 as a backup. My wife carries one as well.

When I was in the military, my commander told me this...always have a plan B. When the shooting starts, plan A gets thrown out the window. Resort to plan B.

Everyone should have a backup.
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  #100  
Old 02-14-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepLvr View Post
Everyone should have a backup.
Everyone does. Sometimes it's another gun. Sometimes it's screaming, shouting, or praying. It may be a combination of all of these. It's up to you.

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