You never know when you may be called to act.

Aurora theater shooting mass casualty incident

Be aware be vigilent.

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MP40 442 SHIELD9 SHIELD40 MP22

I would agree that it is my "duty" to CC for my family and my protection...not for anyone else's. Yes....one could "possibly" made a difference...doubtful since he was wearing a vest. One could have done more harm by hitting innocent bystanders in the process. By returning fire...you are drawing attention to yourself and your family....not good when he is protected and carrying 3 guns......! Not a time to play batman.

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

And try to avoid those places that don't allow concealed weapons.
If someone did pull and kill the gunman, there's a chance his new neighbor's name could be Zimmerman or something like that. Although the allowance of legally concealed weapons in a theater may be a deterrent to a would be killer. I'd say a well planned shooting spree would include making sure you held the weapons. But then again if a person is that ate up, nothing is gonna stop an attempt.
Be safe, please,
gordon

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better have that checked

I agree. One or more persons carrying could have made such a difference. No one is talking about playing Batman, but protecting others WHILE protecting your family.
The problem is, the liberals always scream to "get rid of all guns" like that would work as good as "let's get rid of drugs". You will never convince liberals that to stop this, first we need to recognize and treat the mentally ill in this country and that with a firm majority carrying concealed weapons will reduce carnage.

Agree, carry to protect yourself and your family. What if you had the chance to take down the shooter?

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MP40 442 SHIELD9 SHIELD40 MP22

If I had the chance to take down the shooter without endangering anyone else I would take the shot. But remember, If you fail and draw attention to yourself and family...well...don't want to go there.

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

In a restaurant environment like the Texas Luby's situation, one would have a chance. Unfortunately, this situation wouldn't have made a difference, other than a CCW carrier causing a distraction, since the shooter was wearing Body Armor with Neck Protection, Helmet, Leg Shields, etc... Not to mention that he 1st set off a gas canister for effect.

Add in that panic ensued and you had other innocents bolting around inhibiting any clear shot one might have, bad lighting and more, not much one of us could do, other than try to keep our loved ones covered and try for a secondary exit.
JMHO

(Why is this in the M&P Sub-Forum?)

Body armor does not make you invincible. Im not saying that i could have made a difference but i know that i would have tried if i had the chance. I would have taken a shot or 8. I have a sworn duty to protect others lives, in uniform or not.

Truly a tragedy. Scary stuff.

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MP40 442 SHIELD9 SHIELD40 MP22

Being an LEO one would expect you to try to stop the shooter...but not the average citizen....big difference. On another note...thanks for what you do.

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

IF I HAD A CHANCE, I'd throw the wife on the floor, draw and empty the mag of my 6906 at the perp's melon since he's up on the stage, lit by the projector, and firing into the seats. But the fact is I would NEVER be at the MIDNIGHT opening show of ANY movie. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

While I agree with what you're saying... and I hope that you (and I) never have to make that decision.

A thing to keep in mind is that you as an LEO (unlike many other non-LEO/non-Military forum members) know how to recognize and react to a perpetrator that you suspect is wearing body armor. Whereas many forum members with the courage to "stand and fight" will have less knowledge in dealing with this issue and could unknowingly become sacrificial heroes.

Stay Safe!


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I've heard of old gunfighters and bold gunfighters...
but I've never heard of old, bold gunfighters!

For what it's worth, Cinemark Theaters had a "No Guns" policy.

Cinemark Theaters' No Firearms Policy | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

As usual, those policies are only followed by the law-abiding. The "law-abiding" quickly turn into "the victims" when someone chooses to ignore the theater policy and prey on the innocent, unsuspecting, and unarmed.

It is not entirely a coincidence that incidents like these occur at places like schools, college campuses, malls, and theaters.

I would never have been there at that time of day, and certainly not if they want endanger my safety by having a nogun policy. I doubt whether I could have stopped him with my CA 44 Spl or my S&W 38 Spl. Probably depend on how good a vest he was wearing and I am not good enough shot to have made a head shot unless I was up pretty close. I have not been to a theatre in about 12 years. Earlier they said he did not have a CHL nor a hunting license.

What??? you might get shot???

I'd rather take a chance of getting shot then living the rest of my life knowing I coward under a movie seat doing nothing while my wife and/or grandkids were being shot.

I also don't have any worries about getting caught carrying in a no carry zone (excluding fed buildings and such), What are they going to do, Ask you to leave?????

Interesting to note that nobody mentioned the concern that the arriving police officers might mistake you as the shooter, not the hero who killed the shooter. That would be my first worry in such a situation.

What happened in Colorado was both incredibly surreal and very confusing to those involved, I'm surprised the perp wasn't shot in the end anyways.

On a side note though, the fact that he was able to get tear gas should tell everyone that he had some kind of connections, and that no gun control would have prevented him from acting eventually. He may have been delayed, assuming his guns were legally purchased, if he had been prevented *somehow* from some sort of gun control measures, but in the end he would have probably bought them from the same vendor he bought the gas from.

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Wheelguns 'n 3rd Gens.

Ya know I was thinking about exactly that. I think if I were near enough to see the BG, that would be near enough to threaten the wife and me. If I couldn't get away, get HER away without being near him, yeh, I think I'd take a few shots, hope he at least ducks long enough to get outa there. I would NOT go huntin' for him, I don't think..but what if someone had...would I have been a wimp? Even if he had already shot 50 people, I might coulda stopped the next 21. I actually don't know. Seems the cops were there in 90 seconds, hopefully I'd have seen one, and that would have ended my responsibility- and guilt, maybe.

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

Don't know about how your states' laws are written, but here in North Carolina, concealed carry is not allowed anywhere that charges admission, whether the establishment has a "no guns" sign posted or not. I thought about this when I heard about the Aurora shootings today, and how if it had happened at a movie theater here, I couldn't have legally been carrying and had an opportunity to defend myself and others when the firing began. So, the decision now: when do I break the law, knowing I am a responsible citizen, and carry my Shield 40 in my pocket into a movie theater, state fair, football stadium, or the like?

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

Liberal talk-radio show, new in town, comes on at 3, so I tuned in knowing I'd hear "that's great, we should just let EVERYBODY have Machineguns!"
Then he says, "I'm waiting on some right-wingnut to come say 'if some people had carry guns they woulda stopped him..'
I wanted so daxxxxxx bad to call him, but all I could do was email. I asked him "so if a CCP holder had stopped him, even after he shot 40-50 folks...he woulda saved several people from being shot. You sound like that's a BAD thing. Is that what they teach in fascism school?" Probably wasn;t the way to present my argument, but I was pretty hot, and in a hurry. It's so easy to guess what the anti-gunners are gonna say...

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No work? No eat. 2 Thes

It's easy to say I would do this or that...pound your chest...look at me...I'm not afraid. Honestly...you have no idea what you would do. It's not about being a hero or a coward...it's about using your brain to get out of the situation alive.

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

For some reason this post followed by the sig line "when in doubt-use the M&P" is somewhat entertaining.

My wife texted me today asking if I'd heard about this senseless tragedy. My response was, "yep, still think I'm a lunatic for carrying all the time?" Her response, "nope."

Now the reality is my M&P 340 loaded with .38 Federal Hydra-Shok's would have just gotten me killed. You see that's all I carry in the summer heat. In the dark, with smoke grenades going off, muzzles flashes punctuating the dark, and the incredible noise of up-close gunfire, could I have gone for a head shot with a snubbie? Doubt it seriously. All I would have done would be to draw fire to me and my family. Does this mean it's time to put that .357 Sig barrel in the Glock and carry it no matter what? Or just strap on the 65-3 and leave the shirt out?

I don't have the answers and hope to never find out what I would do in that situation but I've always said I want the option to shoot back. Would I? Could I? Please God, lets never find out.

As a LEO I've been in situations where I used my duty weapon. Now retired 15 years I only carry my J Frame w/one reload. To be honest the circumstances would have to be in my favor before I risked a shot that might miss, or injure an innocent person, and I'm a good shot w/my J (I practice often).

That said if I did get the chance I would take the bad guy out and hope to stay out of the media limelight. The newsies think nothing of ruining your family life just to make their deadline.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Did you notice that you are sneering at a LEO?

I think he knows what he would do.

LEO's consider it bad style to show a yellow streak.

For some reason....your lack of judgment is entertaining....

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

Well...I guess he thinks all the people who hid behind whatever they could get behind are all cowards. He is a retired LEO...not sneering at him...he as a retired LEO should not call people cowards because they did not storm the BG shooting. All I am saying is....everybody did what "they" had to do to survive....end of story. JMO

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

That's strange, I don't recall making a judgement call on anything in this thread.

Could you share with us the logic of the NC legislature when they made that decision?

Prayers are with the Aurora victims, family, and friends.

These threads crack me up . I would do this or I would do that!

That's all I heard on the radio shows today too.

Thing is, we weren't there so we can speculate all we want.

Blind intervention and protecting yourself and family are two different things. Not even close.

And I'm willing to bet that there were a few concealed carriers at the movie who chose not to act for good reason.

Logic in the NC legislature?

You must be kidding.

I doubt seriously there was another person in that building with a firearm.

Colorado is a Shall Issue state. I'm willing to bet your wrong.

But seriously, does it matter?

Everybody wants to be a hero. Blindly intervening will just get you dead.

I'm not saying that we should do nothing. But to jump out in front of hail of bullets is foolish at best.

Fight your battles on your terms not his.

This story was a real tragedy. I really doubt anyone could have been of much assistance. The Perp was well armed, well thought out execution of his plan, had surprise (some thought it was part of the show), darkness and confusion going on.

Someone armed would have been at a serious disadvantage and would have put even more people at risk with a firearm discharge.

The story appears to have all the firearms being legally obtained and the person not having any law enforcement problems. We shall see as the investigation continues, and we'll know a great deal about him over the next couple of weeks.

He aledgely told law enforcement he was "THE JOKER" and had colored his hair. We will just have to wait and not speculate so much.

The world has Mentally Disturbed people and JUST EVIL ONES TOO.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Totally agree...

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

The variables are so many that it it difficult to know what one might have done, or might have had the opportunity to do, during the 2 minutes or so that the shooting rampage lasted. You would have had to be sitting in one of those theatre seats to know that. I was a law enforcement officer for 41 years. One of my greatest nightmares was to have a lethal situation arise before me and be helpless to do anything about it. I always am armed for that reason. As I have said many times before, I may be a victim, but I damn sure don't intend to be a helpless victim

If we REALLY stop to think about this and picture in your head what it must of been like during the shooting, I think we would realize that taking any type of action would have been extremely difficult.

The shooter had a perfect killing zone. Multiple weapons. And body armor. At least that's what has been reported so far.

As concealed carriers many of us would have been seated in an aisle seat in case of fire and we probably would not have considered a mad man PREPARED to execute a mass shooting.

People would have been trampling each other to get to the exits. So where does that leave you in your aisle seat? If you get up your likely to be shot. If you sit there, you can't bend over or hit the floor to take cover. If you wait until people are clear to take a shot, you just became the next target of the mad man with an AR-15 AND a shotgun while you hide behind a seat!!

For a concealed carrier to win this situation the events would have had to unfold perfectly for the concealed carrier. And what are the odds of that?

looking up CO laws ... seems the no guns allowed signs do not have force of law there. Did Denver louse it up on the city level and why was he not reduced to goo under a barrage of legit defensive return fire?

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it just needs more voltage

At the range I'm a pretty darn good shot and I have a few trophy's to prove it. In a dark crowded theater under stress with a lot of panicked people running around and a 5 shot .38 snub nosed revolver against an armored up rifleman I'm not so sure I could have been much help. Would I have done something, anything??? I would like to think as a former Marine I would try, but not having been there it would be nothing but speculation.

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

I agree.......

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Lt. Dan, what R U doing here?

Nutnfancy is the worst thing to happen to CC and the gun community as a whole with his whole sheep dog thing. I carry and have for a while now I carry to protect my family and myself, above that its a case by case basis. Pulling a perfect head shot seems easy but when you factor in limited vision in the dark, muzzle flash, people running all over the place are you 100% sure you can make that shot?

It may sound harsh but i carry to protect my family and myself not the guy next to me he has the same opportunity to protect himself as I do....not my fault if he doesnt.

This MAY sound harsh.
The guy started off down front and went up in front of the movie screen according to some reports.
Tossed some kind of smoker or tear gas.
if a person who carried had engaged him, he was wearing light kevlar armor, it could have been a game changer.
His armor may have stopped the round, but he darn sure would have felt it.
The guy shot 71 people in under 2 minutes.
If a person engaged him, caused him to decide that it may not be the best day for these shenanigans, and he left... would the potential of hitting 1-2 bystanders have been worth the potential of keeping 50 of those people from being shot?


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

Now... now... he does tend to think like a typical Lieutenant Colonel! Lets be grateful he didn't make it to full bird before retiring from the AF... then he'd really think he knew everything!!

I run a restaurant less than 3 miles from where this happened. Some of my staff went to see Batman that night. This is their usual theater of choice. Thankfully the show was sold out, and they went elsewhere. Some of them still lost friends in that theater. I spent all of yesterday donating, and delivering, food to the Aurora PD and the local blood bank. The local community is in shock, to say the least. If I was in there would I have used my gun? I think so. But truly, I don't know. Because I WASN'T there. All I know for sure is lives were lost. Many more were changed forever.

IF is a mighty big word. The odds were greatly in his favor. So great that I would have protected myself and family. Nothing more nothing less.

Look at the LA bank robbery how many cops did it take to finally put those two down? To engage a target who has the element of surprise and superior fire power is insane. Id say im a pretty damn good shot at 7yds I can cover my group with a quarter but that is at the range. You are responsible for every single round leaving your gun.

Its easy to say I would have done this or that while sitting behind a keyboard. I have 6 years recent active, all those guys you talk all kinds of tough froze up when just a few flyers came within 25yds.

Show me the non-LEO/military mortal who can definitely say he would have had the presence of mind to act calmly and courageously in the face of that madness, and I'll show you someone who is full of himself and full of something else.

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I'm with the banned ...

I live less than 10 miles from this theater. I am not sure what I would have done if I had been there. A 9mm shield with 2, 7 shot mags of 9mm Luger 124 gr FTX® Critical Defense® Ammo and no body armor, no laser and no guts. I believe I would have tucked tail and ran. Outgunned is outgunned. Im stupid but not a total idiot.

Generalize much?

Aloha,

Has anyone asked their Wife what she would do IF she had a gun in this situation?

I did over lunch today. She is a SURVIVOR and can think on her feet.

She realizes that IF she HAD to engage and body shots weren't working, she'd try for the head.

She indicated that a M-58 reworked for HER might be a Nice Gift.

Course, we have to get Hawaii laws changed from May to Shall Issue.

My Wife has saved my *** in more than one of my medical emergencies.

Would you be happy knowing you may have saved lives while you spent the rest of yours in jail? Because between carrying illegally and killing innocents, that is what would have happened.