I have been carrying a 1911 in a Blackhawk Serpa holster for well over two years with no issues at all....Yesterday my Capitan mentions that he has been made aware of the potential for accidential discharges when holstering a gun into the Serpa holster....said some agencies were no longer allowing their use....

Anybody know anything about this?

i have`nt seen anybody do a discharge. but there were a lot of threads/ you tube videos on other forums to this fact. MOST shootings were at defense schools classes. most shot theirselves in the leg, practiceing drawing their weapon, MOST shootings were w/ glocks, AS PER THE THREADS and VEDIOS. again i state i never saw one pistol discharge while on the draw using a serpa holster. Ol' Geeser, did you mount the belt hooks that came w/ the holster? they stop the slight rocking motion when drawing. if they didn`t come w/ the holster, e-mail Blackhawk w/ the # of the holster, and they will send you a set of belt hooks in a plane brown wrapper. and to the few/ many that don`t like the SERPA holster, i`ve had one for several years, and it`s the best retention holster i have . w/ a shirt out,i have had people walk past me in heavy crowds, hook their wrist behind the grip, and stop!! where they are standing. then you get a look of puzzlement, and they say they are sorry to have bumped into you. it goes back to the rule list, never put your finger on the trigger.

I can see the AD with and Glock type pistol...I use a 1911 which I feel is a whole different animal, if deployed properly...I carry it daily on a duty belt.

I've seen the videos and each one its the shooter not the holster.

Simple solution. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard.

I have Serpas, The way the work, is as you pull the gun from the holster the finger slides over the release, then as the gun comes out, your finger falls natualy along side the sline (auto) or on the frame below the cylender (revolver).

You have to crook your finger to get it into the trigger guard, with a Serpa or any other holster I've seen.

I did two videos (not good videos), one with the revolver one with the semi.

Semi:

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy...tta%2092FS.AVI

Revolcer:

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy...20revolver.AVI

My point exactly....!

Serpas have been banned by several agencies and trainers, including FLETC and several federal LE agencies. I have an email I can't paste in here on this platform, but will try to remember later. The ND issue is part of it, and most of those tend to be poor handling, but there have also been well documented reports for years of the locking mechanism failing and either not holding or not releasing the pistol. Those are the majority of the issues.

I've known of this for 5 or more years; it was a topic of discussion on both 10-8 and LF on several occasions. Okanogan County WA has a training facility that tries to run good classes and has banned them unless issued; they have a good memo on the issue. If I can find that one too I'll post it.

It is a major liability issue and dereliction per se for a command officer to allow the darned things.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

Its a poor man who blames his screw ups on equipment.

Forest Service
Washington Office
1400 Independence Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20250

America¹s Working Forests ­ Caring Every Day in Every Way Printed on
Recycled Paper

File Code:
5300

Date:
May 3, 2012

Subject:
Safety Issue-Prohibiting Use of Blackhawk SERPA Holsters

To:
Law Enforcement and Investigations Leadership Team
Several law enforcement agencies, including FLETC, have experienced
incidents where students and field agents/officers using Blackhawk SERPA
holsters have had accidental discharges resulting in personal injury and or
property damage.

FLETC recently issued a notice to all Partner Organizations, advising of two
recent incidents where students with Blackhawk SERPA holsters have had
accidental discharges resulting in personal injury. On April 17, 2012, FLETC
held a meeting with Partner Organizations and advised that holsters with an
auto locking/finger release, such as the Blackhawk SERPA holster will
immediately be banned from use in the training environment. FLETC had
recently banned all instructors from using the SERPA Blackhawk holster while on FLETC firearms ranges and while working with students and was expanded to any use of these holsters on the firearms ranges at FLETC. However, DHS OGC is now reviewing the ban and FLETC is awaiting the OGC opinion before making their final determination.

The "SERPA Active Retention? design consists of a plastic L-shaped component which functions as the release button (from the outside of the holster) and as the lock (which engages inside the trigger guard when the weapon is holstered).
While Blackhawk may have intended for the end-user to apply inboard pressure with the pad of the index finger, under stress and given time constraints, users tend to push the button with the tip of their finger disengaging the retention device with direct inward pressure of the finger-tip. When the finger-tip pushes in on the release button and the user initiates the upward motion of the draw removing the weapon from the holster, the finger-tip tends to stay engaged in the same position used to disengage the retention device and can enter the trigger guard, making contact with the trigger, causing an unintentional discharge.
The Blackhawk SERPA release button can result in an unintended continuation of the movement of the trigger finger toward the trigger due to the ³push button² motion required to complete the weapon draw. This unintended movement of the trigger finger has been observed during training with students and field agents when placed in some form of elevated stress situations.

In addition, there have been several reports from law enforcement and the
military of debris (such as a pin head size pebble) getting lodged behind
the release button inside the holster, making the withdrawal of the weapon
from the holster impossible. Exterior examination of the holster is unable
to detect whether debris has entered the internal working mechanism of the retention device within the holster. Thus, realization by the user that the holster has become inoperable due to debris will only be realized when the user unsuccessfully tries to draw the firearm from the holster and is denied access to the weapon.

The Air Force, Office of Special Investigations, (OSI), had incidents where
debris has made the holster inoperable, thus making the withdrawal of the
weapon impossible. Air Force OSI has banned the use of the Blackhawk
holster. Also there are other federal agencies that have discontinued the
use of these holsters.

The National Academy does not issue these types of holsters to our new
hires, however, it is my understanding that several officers and agents in
the field have purchased these types of holsters. The National Academy also does not currently issue the SERPA Taser holster to new hires. We issued the holster for a short time and discovered when there was significant stress on the holster, such as the officer engaged in ground fighting, the holster would release retention and the Taser would fall from the holster.

With the above in mind, due to safety concerns regarding the SERPA Firearm holster and SERPA Taser holster, the use of these types of holsters and any other holsters with the same type of auto locking/finger release is no longer authorized. Please ensure that any of your personnel who utilize
these types of holsters discontinue their use until further notice.

/s/David L. Ferrell
DAVID L. FERRELL
Director, Law Enforcement and Investigations
cc: James Alford, Dan Harrell

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

I have only limited experience with a Serpa, with my M&P45. I usually spend my time at the range practicing SD shooting - drawing from my knees, from my back 'tween the legs, from my side behind cover, 'fast draw', and so on. When I got my first semi - my M&P45fs - I ordered a Blackhawk Serpa. I practiced a lot with them, at first for a while with an empty mag, and then later with the gun loaded. My finger always dropped to the sline when I drew the gun. I never had one occurrence where my finger dropped to the trigger after pressing the release button and drawing, even when drawing hurriedly from all those positions.

I wonder if the few occurrences of AD with these holsters were due to the wrong gun for the holster or vice-versa? Or perhaps the holster was new to the owner, and they had no experience with it? And, some folks are just not coordinated.

When I first read of these Blackhawk AD I tried to adjust the retention screw to see if the gun would go in too far and the "L" clip would actually hit the trigger, or make the draw sloppy enough to make my finger land on a different part of the gun - like the trigger or trigger guard - but nothing other than fit changed.

I always thought it was a good alternative retention design to the thumb strap.

Perhaps proper execution is due to proper practice?

I didn't like the Serpa because it stuck out too far - even with a loose shirt or heavy coat covering I looked lopsided. Since I acquired my 4513TSW it became my EDC and it resides in an IWB with no thumb strap.

__________________
Marty 4513TSW 13-1 642 60-10

The ND issue is training. No question. The lock failures issue is inherent and not fixable.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

Most all the local law enforcement agencies in my area have banned them as well. We run a holster trade in program, and I can't tell you how many local LEO's have come by trying to trade them in.

__________________
Gunner's Alley

I have a Serpa for my Sigma. I took my CCW class with it and had no problem. I've carried many times, and used it at the range twice. I've never had my finger inside the trigger guard when drawing and firing, or re-holstering. I only stopped using it when I got my Old Faithful IWB holster, but I never had a problem or even close to a problem. As mentioned before, it isn't the equipment...it's the user.

I haven't heard of inherent problems with this holster during the "holstering" part, but I've read about some situations involving discharges when presenting (drawing) the firearm out of the holster.

I was headed to a Front Sight Firearms Training class late last year and I was annoyed when I found out that they wouldn't allow my Blackhawk Serpa.

"Hmmph, this is a well designed holster and only untrained idiots would shoot themselves while drawing their gun, and it will never happen to me." I thought to myself.

Then I read the incident reports. See Incidents number 9, 10, 11.
Safety / Incident Reports
Note that all 3 incidents involved this holster . . . designed for [name the firearm]. A common pattern emerged that was too significant to ignore, hence the subsequent ban at this training institute.

I think the problem is that very similar finger force and motion are required to release the lock as to fire the gun, both using the trigger finger. With all the stress and excitement of realistic training, or in a real incident, the whole process could blur into a single, continuous movement.

The user also wants to make sure the gun is released, but if the trigger finger's pressure on the holster's release button is removed too early, the gun will remain locked in. So to ensure that gun can be drawn, trigger finger pressure on the release tab is maintained for a few more deciseconds until the gun is partially lifted out of the holster. At this point, the finger's pressure is supposed to be released and if not, there's a potential for the trigger finger to end up applying pressure on the trigger.

One can argue that for firearms with discrete thumb safeties such as 1911s, you are unlikely to shoot yourself if trained properly. Indeed, the training for 1911s required that the safety not be disengaged until the firearm is pointed forward then both hands have merged, a safe technique for any holster design. Finger does not go on the trigger until ready to fire.

Fortunately for me, I hadn't practiced with my Blackhawk Serpa so I never developed the muscle memory to press the release button with my trigger finger.

I was able to use my Serpa holster for the class, but only after I showed that I had permanently disabled the locking mechanism. To disable it, I stuck a twig in the release button to keep it from depressing, then I cut off the locking tab. Yes, a "contaminant" can keep the lock from releasing.

Review Incident numbers 2, 7, 8 for negligent discharges during the holstering phase. You may be able to derive your own conclusions.

I have a blackhawk serpa retention holster, I use it when I shoot competition. I normally use my glock 23. I have always trained to index my finger when drawing, so that I don't hook the trigger. Anyone who has a glock in a serpa holster and forgets to index will probably get lead in their leg or foot. If they are lucky, the lead will just go in the ground. INDEX YOUR FINGER.