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  #51  
Old 08-23-2012, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LenS View Post
The M&P 45 FS and 45c are both on the current approved Roster. See here (pg 10)
http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/...ter-4-2012.pdf
This is one of two rosters that you need to look at when determining if a firearm is MA compliant or not. The 45C shows up on this roster, but it is still not MA compliant. Just like all of the Gen 4 glocks show up on the roster, yet none of them are actually MA compliant or can be bought by civilians because there is no "round in chamber indicator"
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  #52  
Old 08-23-2012, 04:35 PM
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Thanks macski.

I found this good video on gun belts. I'm sure it's nothing new to you guys:

Gun Belts:Good Belts are Different Than Good Gun Belts. - YouTube!
Well there's a topic switch!!

I like popcorn with butter.
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  #53  
Old 08-23-2012, 06:57 PM
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You ought to gather a group of applicants and bring a class action lawsuit against the state!
...you should also gather and add to the group...as many victims of violent crime as you can find...
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  #54  
Old 08-24-2012, 11:03 PM
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Worcester MA = Gary J. Gemme = Target Shooting

Good luck your going to need lots of it.
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  #55  
Old 08-24-2012, 11:40 PM
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...I've been thinking about this...and maybe you could try the following.

...secure the services of an attorney and have him draft a couple of documents for the sheriff to sign...the first stating that he fully acknowledges the fact that he is personally denying you the right to protect yourself while in his jurisdiction.

...second form states that he personally guarantees your personal safety at all times when you are in his jurisdiction...

...after lying awake a few nights worrying about the liability he has subjected himself to...he might just issue your permit so he can get a good nights sleep...
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  #56  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by labworm View Post
Worcester MA = Gary J. Gemme = Target Shooting

Good luck your going to need lots of it.
That's ok, everything that's shot at is a target.

It was pointed out to me that people with restricted LTC Class A licenses are joining 24 hour gun clubs so whenever they carry they're "headed to the gun club".
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  #57  
Old 08-25-2012, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ParadiseRoad View Post
...I've been thinking about this...and maybe you could try the following.

...secure the services of an attorney and have him draft a couple of documents for the sheriff to sign...the first stating that he fully acknowledges the fact that he is personally denying you the right to protect yourself while in his jurisdiction.

...second form states that he personally guarantees your personal safety at all times when you are in his jurisdiction...

...after lying awake a few nights worrying about the liability he has subjected himself to...he might just issue your permit so he can get a good nights sleep...
Good thinking, but why would the chief ever sign something like that, plus I think he'd do everything in his power to punish such cleverness. Thanks.
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  #58  
Old 08-25-2012, 11:56 AM
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Here's a thought I had:

Q: What is your reason for wanting to carry a concealed weapon?

A: Why do homeowners purchase homeowner's insurance?

Answer the question with a question. I bet the chief has heard that one too. Of course, which seems to be the case, if the chief is an automatic restricted license, then none of this matters. In that case, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
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  #59  
Old 08-25-2012, 05:36 PM
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Jeff, you are over-thinking this. Put your application in and make whatever you say as simple and as polite as you can. Then go join a 24-hour range, throw a small range bag in the trunk of your car with a few targets, safety glasses, ear muffs, etc. - and then keep the lowest possible profile.

There is a lot of truth to that old saw that no one should ever know you are carrying a gun until they are looking down the barrel of it.
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  #60  
Old 08-25-2012, 06:24 PM
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Is your local Chief the only one who can issue a permit? In RI it can be my Chief or the Attorney General.
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  #61  
Old 08-25-2012, 09:22 PM
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Jeff, you are over-thinking this. Put your application in and make whatever you say as simple and as polite as you can. Then go join a 24-hour range, throw a small range bag in the trunk of your car with a few targets, safety glasses, ear muffs, etc. - and then keep the lowest possible profile.

There is a lot of truth to that old saw that no one should ever know you are carrying a gun until they are looking down the barrel of it.
...if you've never been arrested for indecent exposure...you shouldn't be arrested for concealed carry either...just treat your big gun like your little gun...or vice versa...
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  #62  
Old 08-26-2012, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by M29since14 View Post
Jeff, you are over-thinking this. Put your application in and make whatever you say as simple and as polite as you can. Then go join a 24-hour range, throw a small range bag in the trunk of your car with a few targets, safety glasses, ear muffs, etc. - and then keep the lowest possible profile.

There is a lot of truth to that old saw that no one should ever know you are carrying a gun until they are looking down the barrel of it.
Yes sir, sounds like a good plan to me. Thanks.
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  #63  
Old 08-26-2012, 01:23 AM
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...if you've never been arrested for indecent exposure...you shouldn't be arrested for concealed carry either...just treat your big gun like your little gun...or vice versa...
Nice analogy PR.

No indecent exposure, just some printing LOL.

RIDavid, good question, I'm not sure on that.
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  #64  
Old 08-26-2012, 03:18 PM
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Unless you have some really good reasons of why you reside in that town or State for that matter then if I were you and any of your friends that care about freedom move elsewhere when all that is left in the state is criminals and gangs that carry openly or concealed and their victims then maybe the state will finally become a "shall issue" state but in the meantime you can live at peace with yourself and carry in another locale that allows the freedom to defend yourself anywhere you go with only certain restrictions!
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  #65  
Old 08-26-2012, 04:13 PM
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Unless you have some really good reasons of why you reside in that town or State for that matter then if I were you and any of your friends that care about freedom move elsewhere when all that is left in the state is criminals and gangs that carry openly or concealed and their victims then maybe the state will finally become a "shall issue" state but in the meantime you can live at peace with yourself and carry in another locale that allows the freedom to defend yourself anywhere you go with only certain restrictions!
I'm learning that there are ways to exercise my freedoms despite restrictions in the system. It may involve more hassle like keeping a range bag in my trunk and joining the right club, but I can ultimately enjoy the same gun freedoms as a citizen of great state of Tennessee. Who knows, I may even get a LTC Class A with no restrictions and this thread would become moot, but whatever transpires with the chief, "where there's a will there's a way". And besides, there are more reasons for choosing to live somewhere than just the gun laws. Massachusetts isn't perfect, but neither is Tennessee.

Thanks! Best Regards.
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  #66  
Old 08-26-2012, 04:43 PM
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Could you possibly define a Class A license with or without restrictions? There have to be some guidelines, does carry mean carrying a weapon that is unloaded with the chamber open no magazine with ammunition in it what?

Carry with a semi auto with one in the chamber and a fully loaded magazine...I am ready at all times to defend myself, I do not have to carry decoys or excuses to exercise the right to defend myself or family no matter where I am and the Castle Doctrine is law which is stronger than a Stand Your Ground Law where my vehicle is also my Castle and I have the legal right to deadly force without having to worry about a civil lawsuit for me doing so! Anywhere I have a legal right to be I am immune to most laws that could put me in jail for defending myself sorry you have to go through hoops to justify the same right I enjoy and respect each day of my life!
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  #67  
Old 08-26-2012, 05:11 PM
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Seems to me the people need to vote in a new chief of police who is more sensitive to the people he is suppose to serve and protect. By denying them the right to arm themselves....is not protecting them.
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  #68  
Old 08-26-2012, 05:28 PM
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Houdinin, here's a link that tries to explain the differences between a Class A and a Class B license. There seems to be lots of room for interpretation. Basically, the laws in my state are a mess:

Class A and Class B LTC Differences.

The link above pretty much covers every aspect of Massachusetts gun law.

If I'm able to obtain a Class A license with no restrictions then I'll enjoy most of the freedoms that you do with restrictions on magazine size and certain makes of firearms. If not, which seems likely because my city is considered a red city, I might have to be a little more creative and daring.

It's not ideal and I'm not happy about it at all, but short of moving I'm going to try to make the best of it.

It sounds to me that Tennessee respects the Constitution and the rights of its citizen. I wish I could say the same but it's just not the case in the "progressive" northeast. Enjoy your freedom and continue to choose your public servants wisely. And thanks.
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  #69  
Old 08-26-2012, 05:34 PM
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Seems to me the people need to vote in a new chief of police who is more sensitive to the people he is suppose to serve and protect. By denying them the right to arm themselves....is not protecting them.
The police chief is appointed by a city council. Liberals don't believe that armed citizens make for a safer community. It's just a knee-jerk emotional reaction that guns are dangerous and they kill people so therefor limit guns as much as possible. The facts, the truth, and crime statistics go in one ear and out the other.
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  #70  
Old 08-26-2012, 06:14 PM
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The police chief is appointed by a city council. Liberals don't believe that armed citizens make for a safer community. It's just a knee-jerk emotional reaction that guns are dangerous and they kill people so therefor limit guns as much as possible. The facts, the truth, and crime statistics go in one ear and out the other.
...you're exactly right Jeff...elected officials are a reflection of the people that elected them...obviously the majority of the chiefs constituents agree with him or he wouldn't be there...and that's what makes it such an uphill fight...
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  #71  
Old 08-26-2012, 06:42 PM
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...you're exactly right Jeff...elected officials are a reflection of the people that elected them...obviously the majority of the chiefs constituents agree with him or he wouldn't be there...and that's what makes it such an uphill fight...
Yup, but who knows how the chief really feels. It could be the chief is toeing the line to hold onto his job; or maybe, as you implied, he was selected because he best represents the politics of the city council, and further down the line, the citizens of Worcester.

It's funny about gun laws though, people up here are very afraid of citizens being armed. I even know conservative republican types who are anti-gun. To me they're RINOS. It makes no sense because you can't just pick and choose the laws in the constitution that you agree with, that's what progressives do. To me it's all or nothing.
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  #72  
Old 08-27-2012, 01:13 AM
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Yup, but who knows how the chief really feels. It could be the chief is toeing the line to hold onto his job; or maybe, as you implied, he was selected because he best represents the politics of the city council, and further down the line, the citizens of Worcester.

It's funny about gun laws though, people up here are very afraid of citizens being armed. I even know conservative republican types who are anti-gun. To me they're RINOS. It makes no sense because you can't just pick and choose the laws in the constitution that you agree with, that's what progressives do. To me it's all or nothing.
Just to add, look at Chicago. Gun violence is absolutely out of control, and Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country. A law abiding citizen cannot even purchase a firearm within the city limits; firearm sales are banned. So what has the mayor done as a response to all the violence? He recently rewrote the city's gun ordinance to make it even tougher to acquire handguns. That's called doubling down on stupid.

What kind of message would be sent to killers if they knew the citizens were able to arm themselves, and were encouraged to do so? Instead, the message is we're going to make our citizens even more vulnerable, and the killers even more brazen.
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  #73  
Old 08-27-2012, 05:10 AM
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That's ok, everything that's shot at is a target.

It was pointed out to me that people with restricted LTC Class A licenses are joining 24 hour gun clubs so whenever they carry they're "headed to the gun club".
Be very careful with that thinking, make sure you get that clarified in writing when your issued your LTC by the issuing authority, not the boys at the club. There are certain words used, one being Concealed Carry, the other Carry, they both have different meanings. Good luck.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:52 AM
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Be very careful with that thinking, make sure you get that clarified in writing when your issued your LTC by the issuing authority, not the boys at the club. There are certain words used, one being Concealed Carry, the other Carry, they both have different meanings. Good luck.
For sure, that's what separates the good guys from the bad guys.
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  #75  
Old 08-27-2012, 05:35 PM
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The police chief is appointed by a city council. Liberals don't believe that armed citizens make for a safer community. It's just a knee-jerk emotional reaction that guns are dangerous and they kill people so therefor limit guns as much as possible. The facts, the truth, and crime statistics go in one ear and out the other.
So glad I live in KY.
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  #76  
Old 08-28-2012, 05:49 PM
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I would just put down on the app, "For all lawful purposes." The more you put down on the app the more they will look to put restrictions and/or slow down the process by asking you questions. Then it goes back/forth for months.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:08 PM
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I think I would ask a local gun shop dealer what he suggests you put on the application. MA, as you know, is and follow it a "may issue" state so you have to tread softly. As you also know, acting like the only rooster in the barnyard won't help much either so take the advice of a local. I grew up in MA and the state has changed regarding gun ownership...and not for the better. I now live in NH. Yiogo
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  #78  
Old 09-02-2012, 08:54 AM
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Thanks Len, great information, I appreciate it.

I noticed that Pullman Arms in Worcester, MA had M&P45s listed but they were sold out. I guess lots of shooters are thinking like me (and you for that matter).

Your post was so thorough the only follow-up question I have is what's the difference between a "gun belt" and a regular leather belt. I looked at some pictures and they appear like regular belts, to me anyway.

Thanks again!
Although a belt may look like a gun belt, a real gun belt will be extra stiff and prevent "sagging" due to the weight of the gun/holster. I wear the Wilderness Tactical 5-stitch normally but have a all leather gun belt and the difference is very noticeable when "in hand".
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:59 AM
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This is one of two rosters that you need to look at when determining if a firearm is MA compliant or not. The 45C shows up on this roster, but it is still not MA compliant. Just like all of the Gen 4 glocks show up on the roster, yet none of them are actually MA compliant or can be bought by civilians because there is no "round in chamber indicator"
There never has been and never will be a 2nd "roster" by the AG. This is intentional in spite of the law/regs. WE (buyers) do NOT have to worry about any rosters! If a dealer is willing to sell at a price you are willing to pay, just buy it! Those rosters and restrictions are ONLY on what MA Dealers are supposed to do and do NOT restrict ownership or buying/selling by individuals who are not MA Dealers!! [Yes, there are MA Dealers who could care less about the rosters . . . however there are trolls from the AG's office and EOPS who read online forums and will take action against dealers when they learn that they are not abiding by the laws/regs or those that will ship any gun products into MA! Therefore many of us suggest NOT posting names of places that will deal with MA residents anywhere public to prevent them from being shut down.]
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:11 AM
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Carrying to/from the range with a restricted LTC-A is a very good way to lose your permit and all your guns (yes, by law they get confiscated when they pull your permit!).

Chiefs are appointed and many are doing what they are told to do by their keepers (mayor/town manager/etc.).

Many of us live in that hell-hole since certain careers are non-existent in more free areas. Also selling a house isn't as easy as packing up and moving out of an apartment.

Chiefs are NOT obligated to protect you, so trying that trick won't work. Courts have ruled on this in the past.

Asking dealers how to apply is a ticket to disaster. There is so much mis-information out there with dealers, instructors and police . . . this is what motivated me to create the MA Gun Laws seminar that I run, as only a handful of us in the state actually understand MA gun laws. They are convoluted and confusing and a book dedicated to the topic is 450 pages!! [And before anyone asks, IANAL and the book author isn't either! We've both been studying, testifying and dealing with it for many years (>30 in my case).]
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  #81  
Old 09-20-2012, 10:38 AM
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Being from Texas all this sounds like a you live a European socialist country,think Albania, to me. Politicians here would be run out of town on a rail, or worse , if we had to put up with this nonsense . Firearms are part of our heritage and culture. I'm sorry to say that your people keep electing liberal loser. I call it the" hand on the hot stove syndrome"... It feels so good when it quits hurting! It may take time, but those libs gotta go if they don't agree with you... They work for YOU!!! If it stays bad, just move here to Texas... We have lots of jobs and lots more freedoms. Su amigo......mexicanjoe!
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:52 PM
M29since14 M29since14 is offline
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Originally Posted by LenS View Post
Carrying to/from the range with a restricted LTC-A is a very good way to lose your permit and all your guns...

We've both been studying, testifying and dealing with it for many years (>30 in my case).]
Based on that, I'll withdraw my too-casual suggestion in para 1, post #60. Will stand by para 2.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:50 PM
Springfeildkid585 Springfeildkid585 is offline
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Hey guys, first post looking for some feedback.

I'm in Worcester, Massachusetts trying to come up with a strategy to secure a license to carry (Class A License). The chief of police has a reputation for never issuing a Class A without the restriction of "just for sport and target". I deeply resent this and find it unacceptable.

I've been trying to come with a reason (to write on the application) as to why I need a license to carry a concealed handgun. This is what I've come up with:

"For all lawful purposes; to exercise my second amendment rights, and for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as stated in the Declaration Of Independence."

I'm trying to keep as simple as possible with the most compelling argument possible. Any thoughts on this? Thanks!
Why not end every day with a trip to the gun range, so it's always, "I'm on my way to the range" or on "On my way from the range." Way I see it, so long as it's on your to-do list you're carrying legally right?
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:07 PM
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Why not end every day with a trip to the gun range, so it's always, "I'm on my way to the range" or on "On my way from the range." Way I see it, so long as it's on your to-do list you're carrying legally right?
Most chiefs won't see it your way and he'll lose all his guns and his permit to possess them.

Besides leaving guns in the locked trunk of a car daily in Worcester is tempting fate. If the car gets broken into and the guns stolen, some chiefs will also revoke the LTC and confiscate everything else you own. Not worth the risk, especially in a high crime area like that.
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:52 PM
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I grew up in MA. Love the state. I have all my relatives in MA. I moved to an NH border town in '86 so my wife could be closer to her work. Great place to raise my 2 daughters too. Just like MA was in the 60's when I grew up.Thank God!It is sad to see my home state reduced to this kind of foolishness. I thought about getting a CCP for MA. There is no way I'm paying MA $100 a year. No way. I live in the "Live Free or Die" state. Here my rights are unalienable. I went to the police station got an app., filled it out, wrote a check for $10 and 1.5 weeks later I had my permit. By law they had 2 weeks maxto accept or deny. NH is a "must issue" state provided I have no felonies, restraining orders or hospitalizations
for mental illness. I grew up with guns and you name it I shot it in the Army. I don't need any course except for the one I had at my club. If I CHOOSE to take one it will be my choice. BTW NH is an open carry state. You only need a permit for concealed carry. Give me a break. I am glad I left MA. BTW NH was voted the #1 place in the country to live. So follow MA rules and grovel or "Live Free or Die". Your choice. Yiogo
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Old 09-25-2012, 04:59 PM
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To continue with my rant...I have a friend who lives in MA and belongs to a club in an MA town. He pays $25 for his non res. CCP and really only had to apply to the state police. While visiting his club during an open house I had a sheriff tell me that even if the National Right to Carry passes, MA does not have to and WILL not honor it. This is supreme arrogance at its best. Yiogo
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:09 PM
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He pays $100 for 4 years. Yiogo
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:26 PM
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This is one of two rosters that you need to look at when determining if a firearm is MA compliant or not. The 45C shows up on this roster, but it is still not MA compliant. Just like all of the Gen 4 glocks show up on the roster, yet none of them are actually MA compliant or can be bought by civilians because there is no "round in chamber indicator"
I found out very recently that there is in fact a MA compliant M&P45c. The sku is 109358. But good luck finding one.

Last edited by icemn; 09-25-2012 at 05:27 PM. Reason: correction to model
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Old 10-21-2012, 06:21 PM
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I have taught more MA LTC classes and helped more students fill out the applications than I can count. You want to put "for all lawful purposes" on your application. If you'd like to discuss your personal situation, please feel free to PM me.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:44 AM
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I have taught more MA LTC classes and helped more students fill out the applications than I can count. You want to put "for all lawful purposes" on your application. If you'd like to discuss your personal situation, please feel free to PM me.
That "should" be all that is necessary (and that is all that my Wife and I put down), however some PDs insist on a "book" or other such garbage to justify your need. [My town is one of those but since I served on the PD for years and we are both well-known, we don't get that BS pulled on us . . . but reports from others verifies it as a general rule.]
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:14 AM
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There is always another point of view!!

I mentioned this thread to my wife, she had a different take on an approach to get the permit.

Her take: The permit is proof to one of the deputies (should you be stopped) that you are a screened lawful citizen.

The bad guys will not have a permit!! You want one to prove you are one of the law abiding, cooperative good guys.

A reason to have one in Virginia last year was that you could buy more than one handgun a month, another positive reason should your state have such a law.

Consider the positive approach, you attract more ants with honey than vinegar!!
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:29 AM
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Default Worcester LTC

I just came back from my ltc application in Worcester. I walked in & had my interview. It consisted of filling out my finger print card,having my picture taken,my finger prints taken. No questions were asked when they said my paperwork was in order. They said you will know in 3 months whether you got it. We shall see what happens.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:14 AM
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I just came back from my ltc application in Worcester. I walked in & had my interview. It consisted of filling out my finger print card,having my picture taken,my finger prints taken. No questions were asked when they said my paperwork was in order. They said you will know in 3 months whether you got it. We shall see what happens.

You will get a LTC assuming a clean record. Restrictions are another story. Comm2A.org has a chart of 2016 towns and % issued with restrictions, so one can judge likelihood of getting a restricted LTC from your town PD.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:47 AM
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Massachusetts state motto:
Enes petit placidam sub libertate quietem

Translaction..By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty.

So I guess it's a God given right to carry a sword with no government permission in MASS but not a firearm.
Begging a state or local official of the government for the right to bear arms in not liberty.
Thank God I live in Missouri. where if you have no felonies, a Honorable Discharge, and not a wife beater you don't need permission from anyone to open carry or CCW any weapon you want.
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:51 AM
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I would borrow language directly from the Heller, McDonald or Shepherd decisions, which speak to the application of the 2nd Amendment to self-defense outside the home, not hunting and target shooting. If he doesn't recognize the language, his lawyers might.
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:59 PM
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Neither Heller nor McDonald speak to carrying a firearm outside the home for self defense. If they did, many states would have had to change their laws. Heller spoke to the right to possess a firearm inside the home and to have that firearm assembled and ready for use. McDonald spoke to the right to possess a firearm in public housing.

As LenS can attest, firearms law in MA is highly complex and rather confusing. Attaching a quote from a SCOTUS decision is unlikely to sway a CLEO into issuing a LTC when he otherwise would not be so inclined.

MA law allows a Chief almost unfettered discretion in apply restrictions to a License to Carry.

It may be well meaning, but people outside of MA giving advice to applicants inside MA is rarely helpful. For that matter, people INSIDE MA giving advice to applicants inside MA is rarely helpful.

There are a handful of lawyers in MA that specialize in firearms law. Not every applicant needs them, but still they do a good business.

Chances are that Iceman007 will get a LTC. Being Worcester, there is a good chance that it will come with restrictions.

Comm2A has been working diligently on the restrictions issues with some success. At least two cities have changed their "No unrestricted LTC" policies because of their efforts.

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I would borrow language directly from the Heller, McDonald or Shepherd decisions, which speak to the application of the 2nd Amendment to self-defense outside the home, not hunting and target shooting. If he doesn't recognize the language, his lawyers might.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:09 PM
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Neither Heller nor McDonald speak to carrying a firearm outside the home for self defense. If they did, many states would have had to change their laws. Heller spoke to the right to possess a firearm inside the home and to have that firearm assembled and ready for use. McDonald spoke to the right to possess a firearm in public housing.

As LenS can attest, firearms law in MA is highly complex and rather confusing. Attaching a quote from a SCOTUS decision is unlikely to sway a CLEO into issuing a LTC when he otherwise would not be so inclined.

MA law allows a Chief almost unfettered discretion in apply restrictions to a License to Carry.

It may be well meaning, but people outside of MA giving advice to applicants inside MA is rarely helpful. For that matter, people INSIDE MA giving advice to applicants inside MA is rarely helpful.

There are a handful of lawyers in MA that specialize in firearms law. Not every applicant needs them, but still they do a good business.

Chances are that Iceman007 will get a LTC. Being Worcester, there is a good chance that it will come with restrictions.

Comm2A has been working diligently on the restrictions issues with some success. At least two cities have changed their "No unrestricted LTC" policies because of their efforts.
At the risk of being labeled an "ignorant furriner" again, Shepherd spoke precisely to that point. Based on the previous posts and news articles, I never thought that quoting SCOTUS would sway the chief, but if judicial review is a possibility (and the news article says the MA LAWYER is pursuing one), the court might. My suggestion was that instead of using language that could be considered inflammatory, the OP might use the court's own turn of a phrase. Being a direct beneficiary of Shepherd and a former holder of an unrestricted MA LTC, I thought I might help.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:22 PM
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The court in MA will NOT recognize a SCOTUS decision. They haven't so far, at least not in 2A cases. That includes the recent order (not opinion) from SCOTUS on a stun gun case where the opinion of the MA Supreme Judicial Court (SJC) was overturned and remanded back. The SJC has ignored that ruling, although the conviction was vacated. There is currently litigation to force the state to make stun guns legal in compliance with the order.

That is what we face in this state.

As I recall and LenS can confirm or correct me, while a denial to issue a LTC is can be appealed to a MA district court, restrictions are not subject to appeal.

Please give me a cite for the Shepard case as I am unfamiliar with it. Heller and McDonald I have read several times.

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At the risk of being labeled an "ignorant furriner" again, Shepherd spoke precisely to that point. Based on the previous posts and news articles, I never thought that quoting SCOTUS would sway the chief, but if judicial review is a possibility (and the news article says the MA LAWYER is pursuing one), the court might. My suggestion was that instead of using language that could be considered inflammatory, the OP might use the court's own turn of a phrase. Being a direct beneficiary of Shepherd and a former holder of an unrestricted MA LTC, I thought I might help.
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Old 04-19-2017, 07:12 PM
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I'm learning that there are ways to exercise my freedoms despite restrictions in the system. It may involve more hassle like keeping a range bag in my trunk and joining the right club, but I can ultimately enjoy the same gun freedoms as a citizen of great state of Tennessee. Who knows, I may even get a LTC Class A with no restrictions and this thread would become moot, but whatever transpires with the chief, "where there's a will there's a way". And besides, there are more reasons for choosing to live somewhere than just the gun laws. Massachusetts isn't perfect, but neither is Tennessee.

Thanks! Best Regards.
NH is perfect. Lol. It really is though...
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:32 PM
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NH is perfect. Lol. It really is though...
Yes it is, but not for too much longer. Southern NH has turned into greater Boston, and this will soon tip the scale of social values that and quality of life that NH has traditionally enjoyed. Look no further than the last election to see how this tipping point has probably already happened...

I always find it ironic that the state of Massachusetts took the lead to call out the need for, and drive inclusion of the Second Amendment when the Bill of Rights was being debated/drafted. The reason behind those patriots seeing the need for a right to keep and bear arms is obvious to anyone that knows our history, but is completely lost to most of today's uninitiated populace in the Bay State. They create a cesspool in their cities, and then deny citizens their constitutional rights in defending their life, liberty and happiness. A disgrace if you ask me...
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