It was bound to happen sooner or later.

I got done working early today so I ran some errands... Picked up some groceries, picked up my dress blues from the dry cleaner, visited my wife at work. I'm generally aware of the speed limit and usually go slower, but I got caught going 50 in a 35 (right where a 50 stretch meets a 35 stretch, by the way). I wanted to pass the car that I had been passing and carried on too far into the 35. I saw the lights coming up behind me and didn't even think it was for me. I got over and when the cop got over behind me, I thought "hmm that could be for me." Even then I still didnt think it was for speeding.

I turned off the road and sure enough the cop followed so I pulled my truck over. Typical encounter (I assume). He asked for my license, registration, and insurance which I provided. He told me I was going 50 in a 35 to which I simply said "ah" and nodded my head. I wasn't about to argue because I figured he was right. He asked where I was going and I told him I was going home. He asked where I had been and I told him running errands. I wasn't about to come up with some story to try to get out of it.

He went back to his car and did his thing. I sat there waiting... sad that my spotless record was no more. After a few minutes he came back and asked me about my dress blues which were hanging up. I saw a glimmer if hope at this point. I told him the short version.. I'm in the reserve and got my blues cleaned. He asked if I served in the wars and I told him that I had been in Iraq and Afghanistan while active and again in the reserve. He told me he served in desert storm in the Army. He then told me that he was just giving me a warning. I thanked him, told him I appreciated it and he told me have a nice day and was off.

Now, there have been threads about what to do if pulled over while carrying. In PA you don't have to tell them (unless I'm mistaken..) I decided to let things play out and see what happened. He didn't ask if I had any weapons so I didn't tell him. So I was pulled over while carrying, didn't tell him I was, and everything was okay. I made sure to keep my hands visible while he was approaching both times just to make him more at ease.

I like to think he let me off because of my politeness and honesty. I didn't argue or tell him stories. I'm not complaining though if it was just because of the uniforms. Maybe it was a combination of the two.

Oh.. Bodyguard .380 IWB appendix, by the way.

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- The Federalist #46 -

I've never advised the LEO when I was carrying and got pulled over. Massad Ayoob has a great Youtube bit about this. He says you really don't need to in most states unless they ask you to get out of the car. Then it changes. He says to say "certainly, officer, but before I do I want to advise you I am licensed to carry and am doing so now.....please tell me how you would like me to proceed". Never use the word "gun" in this statement, as his partner may be just coming up, and if that's all he hears, you're gonna get a REAL GOOD look at HIS!
You are being polite and cooperative. Nobody SHOULD have a problem with that.

Oh, I just remembered, I guess I actually did tell the last time I got a speeding ticket. It was the Iowa Highway Patrol, I was on a surveillance and was trying to close the gap on my subject. He was a nice guy and had me come back and sit in his unit. I was not carrying, but had a Glock in the car. He wrote the ticket, was interested in the fact I am a Private Investigator, so I told him I had a Glock in the car. He didn't care, he knew I had a permit. Then I asked him if that was an S&W M&P he was carrying. He said yes, and he really liked it. We had a nice talk, I shook his hand and left.

Some of 'em kinda like to talk about guns, just like the rest of us.
Jim

I was pulled over several years ago. I handed the officer the usual documents as well as gun permit. He asked me where the gun was and I told him. He asked to keep my gun hand in view at all times. He thanked me and let me go with a warning.

There can be pro's and con's to both methods. Just use your head.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

In Michigan we don't have a choice, that is if we want to be legal.
We got's to tell.....

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Ogy

I've had my concealed handgun permit in Oregon for a little over 40 years, and while I don't think it is required, I would always tell the officer I am carrying if that is the case. Friends who are police officers have told me the majority of officers appreciate and respect your honesty in doing so. In the few times I've been pulled over, I have told the officer I am carrying, have a permit and where the pistol is located. I recall being pulled over one New Years eve in a Lake Oswego Oregon "drunk driver gillnetting operation". The Sergeant appreciated my being forthright and asked what I was carrying, to which I replied "a Glock model 26" at which point he strongly advised me to get a "real gun" i.e. a more powerful Glock in at least .40 caliber or larger. He provided me a great excuse with my wife, providing me the opportunity to add to the collection. Officer and me, 10 points; wife 0, which she rapidly rectified with a trip to the mall shortly thereafter. Hey; "Whadaya gonna do?"

Last time I got pulled over I told the officer that I have a permit, but was not carrying. I believe central dispatch gives them the permit info when they call in the stop. I was thanked for letting him know and let go with a warning.

You are required to show the LEO your D.L. and CHL permit if you are carrying or the gun is about you in Texas. They will find out you have your CHL when they run your D.L. and then come ask you about it. Failure to provide both can result in a suspension of your CHL for 30 days for the first offense. It gets worse with your second (1-2 yrs) and the third offense if a full on revoking of your CHL. May want to check up on your state rules USAF just to be on the safe side.

I'm just impressed you were willing to take your ticket, as you deserved it. Grown men don't beg(about anything!)

I always inform the officer that I am carrying, where located, and what are his wishes. What is the downside of this?

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Bill
Dis B. Leaf

Just place yourself in the officers shoes............wouldn't you want to know if the person you are stopping has a weapon or not?

Ask people why they carry a gun. The usual answer is they carry because you never know who else is carrying and you don't know who the bad guy is. Now put that same person stopping a car at 2 AM 30 minutes away from any backup and ask them what they think about the possibilities of the person they just stopped? I had civilians ride with me on mids who were the tough talkers but when making such a traffic stop refused to get out of the car because they were scared to death. Had one guy who was a real tough talker telling me stories how he foiled burglaries and gave the steely eyed stare to keep attackers at bay. When I made the traffic stop the guy was so scared he urinated his pants. I was tired of his long winded BS by then so good as reason as any to take him back to HQ and drop him off.
They carry because they want to protect themselves from the others who might be carrying and they don't know who is might cause them harm and those who won't but they don't want to take the chance.

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183rd FBINA

Some guys have all the luck! (But the ladies will always find a way to get the upper hand. )

I can see your point. If he had asked if I was carrying, or had any weapons, I would have been honest. He didn't ask though and since I was legally carrying and was stopped for speeding, it wasn't relevant.

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- The Federalist #46 -

Hasn't happened often, but when it has I hand them my DL and my permit together. I keep them together in my wallet, so I figure that's the easiest way to handle it. I don't have to say anything that way. Just hand him both documents and let him take it from there. I remain respectful and polite, keep my hands on top of the steering wheel or otherwise in plain sight, and answer their questions.

Once, years ago, while having an argument with my ex gf (long story short, she was really sick and needed to see a Dr. I was trying to take her and she got out of the car and started walking. I was walking with her down the street trying to get her to come back to the car so I could take her to the Dr.), for some reason the cops stopped (we were standing on the side of the street). They asked for my ID. I did as described above and gave them both docs. They asked if I was armed and I told them that I was. He asked where it was and I told him, right front pocket. He asked me to place my hands on the hood of his car, patted me down and reached into my pocket and removed my pistol. He cleared the gun and put it in his pocket. His partner just saw the gun and made some negative remark about it (Keltec P32). Officer #1 corrected him, told him what it was and explained that they were actually pretty good little guns. We talked about guns for a minute or so. I was polite and cooperative the whole time. We then discussed the situation. Once everything was settled he gave me my gun back and told me that I needed to clean it. It was my "always" gun and it had been a while since I had cleaned it. He had felt a little grit when he racked the slide to clear it.

I don't feel compelled to tell them really, but I figure it's best not to take chances. Just be up front and avoid the potential for a problem. I try to put myself in their shoes. While I've never been a cop I would think that the unknown in a traffic stop would be stressful. I would think that I'd rather know, and if someone was honest enough to tell me up front I'd probably be more comfortable. IDK, just a thought.

None that I can think of. (Most times in my state they know you have a CCWP from running your info)

Another positive is it can sometimes reduce or do away with a ticket. I have talked guns with a few officers on the side of a road! More talk normally = less paper!

Way back when was stopped by SP and Encon at a road block during the hunting season. The officers wanted me to step out and open up the back tonau on my pick up to look for animals. I was wearing a shoulder rig with a 4'' 44M and told the trooper that. I said please tell your buddies so nothing bad happens . He said he is carrying a gun and out I came. I opened the back and the officers were cool about my Smith. One even said to me "this is not an official request but could I look at your gun’’. I carefully pulled it out cleared it and handed it to the trooper.


At that time .44 Smiths due to Dirty Harry were hard to find and when found most dealers wanted a large premium. He offered me a very decent amount (he had cash in hand)for my gun as he said he had been trying for a while to get one. I said it took me a few months to get it and no sale. He thanked me shook my hand and off we went

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Maybe the LEO did not ask if you had a gun because he saw your USAF Dress Blues and figured... AF don't normally have weapons... Just BA planes and bombs and stuff... (jk)...

BTW, thanks for your service...

Now back to the thread...

In our state, we don't have to tell but I have no problem telling a LEO that I am armed and where I am carrying. Only because I would like to know if the roles were reversed. That's me, my choice and I understand others and their reasons for not telling... I think anytime I can put a LEO at ease is good business.

I asked a very good friend who is a local LEO (Helped get his daughter into the Naval Academy) and he said he would prefer to know a stop was carrying. Reminds me, I need to call him and say hi...

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Doug;}
RSO from WA State

No duty to inform in PA, I do however keep my permit in the same pocket as my license, so they both come out at the same time. I know if I were on the other side of the encounter I would appreciate it.

What happens if you don't have a CC permit, you get stopped with a bag-o-guns in your trunk having just returned from (or on your way to) the range? Are you obliged to tell???

In my state no. As long as the gun/s is not on or about you (within reach) you're in the clear. No need to even inform the LEO that you have them.

Not unless asked. Of course if he asked me to open the trunk I'd probably tell him before he saw them.

In GA, you don't have to have a permit to carry a gun concealed in your vehicle unless it is concealed on your person. At least it used to be that way. Although I've had a permit for so long now that I haven't kept up with non-permit laws. Most states that I'm familiar with at the very least allow the transport of legal to possess firearms as long as they are unloaded and inaccessible from the passenger compartment, or in a locked container. Of course this may not apply everywhere, just where I tend to travel in the SE.

Thanks. I live in CA with nothing but fruits and nuts, so even owning a gun feels like you're breaking a law.

Keep in mind that, unless I'm mistaken, an officer cannot legally search your trunk without a warrant...unless your vehicle has an interior trunk release, in which case they can search your trunk. I recall a novel (Molon Labe, IIRC) in which a character had intentionally disabled his interior trunk release for just such a reason.

Tim

I have yet to be pulled over (knock on wood) since getting my CPL, and even when I'm not carrying I plan on telling just to be on the safe side. Being a must-tell state, I'd rather air on the side of caution.

As stated previously, we have to inform we are carrying in Texas if we are stopped. The 2 times I have been stopped since getting my permit, I have informed the officers that I had my CHL and was carrying after they asked for my drivers license and insurance. Both times I asked them if they wanted to see the CHL with my drivers license, and they said no. They asked if I had the gun on my person, which I answered affirmatively, and then let me get the drivers license out of my wallet so that they could proceed with giving me a warning.

Haven't been pulled over since getting my CCW permit either but here in SC we must disclose such and are required to present CCW permit along with DL. Now bear in mind that you don't have to have a a CCW permit here to carry in the car as long as it's in the glovebox, center console or other covered enclosure. The one time I was stopped prior to the CCW permit law I had a loaded 45 in the glove compartment. When the officer approached, I had my Driver's License in hand but not the registration and proof of insurance. When he asked me why I didn't have them in hand I told him that they were in the glovebox along with my 45 and I didn't want him walking up on me reaching in my glovebox with a pistol in sight. He thanked me for that and then asked for the documents. I told him I was reaching for them VERY slowly with two fingers and did so as he unstrapped his gun. After a VERY tense moment I produced the documents he required, he re-secured his gun and thanked me for being up front and honest about having a loaded gun in the car even though I was under no obligation (at that time) to tell him about it. We ended up exchanging pleasantries and I left with a warning.

They cant search your trunk without either your consent or a warrant. Period. It's got nothing to do with what kind of trunk release is on the vehicle

Not true. Warrantless searches of vehicles are very common. As long as the two requirements of the Carroll Doctrine are met (Vehicle is readily mobile and probable cause exists), a vehicle can be searched based on PC with no need for a warrant or consent.

EDIT: In most states, anyway.

wrong answer...read up on the carrol doctrine..its very old,holds just as true today....
from reviewing quite a few of your posts...you really need to take a long and dedicated study in constitutional law

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

Move to Flrida!

My take on this is if you are legal and if you respect LEOs you will tell. I routinely travel to and from the range with a bag of guns and ammo in my range bag. If I am stopped I will tell.

First, I'm not a lawyer.

I just read up on US vs Carroll. It does not just allow cops to perform a warrantless search of a vehicle without probable cause. The actual case Carrol was based on, the cops had probable cause (they had set up a buy of illegal liquor, they had probable cause to believe had liquor in his vehicle). The court even went so far as to say that:

It would be intolerable and unreasonable if a prohibition agent were authorized to stop every automobile on the chance of finding liquor, and thus subject all persons lawfully using the highways to the inconvenience and indignity of such a search. Those lawfully within the country, entitled to use the public highways, have a right to free passage without interruption or search unless there is known to a competent official, authorized to search, probable cause for believing that their vehicles are carrying contraband or illegal merchandise. The Court added that where the securing of a warrant is reasonably practicable, it must be used. In a situation like a traffic stop, where the suspect is detained, there is no chance of the vehicle being moved, Carroll should not be used just because it is more convenient for the LEO than actually doing the proper thing and getting a warrant.

So let's say this, within the conversation of this conversation where we are talking about being pulled over for a traffic offense (say, running a red light, or a speeding ticket), given no other info, the cop would have no probable cause to perform a search of the vehicle. Also, there was a mention of a trunk release inside the vehicle specifically allowing a cop to search the trunk. That cannot be in CARROLL because it was from the 1930's, and I doubt cars back then had trunk releases.

Again, I am not a lawyer. Are you? Your profile says you are LEO.

[QUOTE=nipster;136857161]First, I'm not a lawyer.

I just read up on US vs Carroll. It does not just allow cops to perform a warrantless search of a vehicle without probable cause. The actual case Carrol was based on, the cops had probable cause (they had set up a buy of illegal liquor, they had probable cause to believe had liquor in his vehicle). The court even went so far as to say that:

It would be intolerable and unreasonable if a prohibition agent were authorized to stop every automobile on the chance of finding liquor, and thus subject all persons lawfully using the highways to the inconvenience and indignity of such a search. Those lawfully within the country, entitled to use the public highways, have a right to free passage without interruption or search unless there is known to a competent official, authorized to search, probable cause for believing that their vehicles are carrying contraband or illegal merchandise. The Court added that where the securing of a warrant is reasonably practicable, it must be used. In a situation like a traffic stop, where the suspect is detained, there is no chance of the vehicle being moved, Carroll should not be used just because it is more convenient for the LEO than actually doing the proper thing and getting a warrant.

So let's say this, within the conversation of this conversation where we are talking about being pulled over for a traffic offense (say, running a red light, or a speeding ticket), blah blah blah

.........
No, you are not a lawyer, you missed the part that says "there is no chance of the vehicle being moved"
I'm not a lawyer either, but I can read. But please, next time an officer stops you for exercising your right to run a stop light, refuse to open your trunk. You will learn the meaning of " you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."
Enjoy your balony sandwich and your night with Bubba.

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Halfway and one more step

This is a little light for the subject matter but I often find myself coming back from my FFL with a new gun (of course I go there with one on my hip, and the truck gun is always in the truck) and I run this scenario through my mind... (hey, I'm easily amused )

A cop pulls me over and I hand him my license and permit. He would ask 'Are you carrying now?' and I would say,

'Yes officer, I have a .45 on the passenger seat, a .380 in the truck cubby and a 9mm on my hip.'

And the officer would say, 'Boy! Carrying all those weapons, what in the world are you afraid of?'

And I would look him in the eye and say...

'Absolutely nothing sir.'

I know, it's cheesy as all heck, but I think that scene through every time I pick up a new gun and I drive home....

And you missed the "probable cause" part...

So tell me, exactly how could the vehicle be moved while you have the driver detained?

I dont appreciate being talked down to...

This is the document I read: http://www.fletc.gov/training/progra...rroll.pdf/view

It seems to not support your interpretation of the law. And you seem to be bragging about not following the law (disregarding the whole "no probable cause thing") when you say "beat the rap but not the ride".

Similar thing happened to me; I was riding my scooter (an actual, factual little scooter - not a big bike), cop pulls me over. He gets out sort of apologizing asking to see my license. I didn't have time to say a word. He was saying that lots of people who buy scooters don't realize you have to have a motorcycle license (above 49cc here, mine is a 110cc). I show him the license, it has the 'M' code. He says 'thanks' and walks away. I didn't say a word.

Here, there's something on the license (in the number or something, maybe they have to pull it up on their computer) that let's them know immediately if you have a CHL.

Of course had there been more time, I would have handed him both my license and CHL (the law got changed here awhile back - you don't have to legally hand them your CHL anymore, of course I would hand it to them while riding a motorcycle/scooter).

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But then, what do I know?

Sir, Your interpretations are errant nonsense, insinuating that I have disrespect for the law. You're quite a theorist. Just get as smart with a police officer in person as you do on the internet and you'll understand
"Probable cause". Jails are always making room for another specialist in the Constitution. Enjoy your balony sandwich and your night with bubba.

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Halfway and one more step

I'm not a lawyer either, and I haven't even read the above mentioned documents. I won't bother debating the issue of whether it's right or wrong. But, I can tell you what is very likely going to happen if a cop asked you to open your trunk and you refuse. They will not appreciate it. You can kiss your "warning" good bye, you will be detained while they call and wait for a K9 unit to come to the site. During this time you will be handcuffed and made to sit somewhere uncomfortable. You could even slip down at some point or bump your head while be helped into the rear seat of the cruiser.

The K9 will be perceived to "alert" on something and then you WILL open the trunk because they then have probably cause for a search, possibly including but not limited to a full cavity search of your person :-). They'll then have a reason to start looking for anything and everything that falls outside the law... laws that you don't even know about. Then they might just let you go with a ticket, after you've wasted a few hours of your time.

Besides, an improper search is only really relevant if an arrest takes place as a result, and you are able to successfully challenge the evidence obtained due to the search being unlawful. This may or may not get the case thrown out, but it won't take the money out of your lawyers pocket and put it back in yours.

While I fully understand the importance of exercising our constitutional rights, sometimes we just have to understand when it's worth it and when it isn't. Long story short, if a cop asked you to open your trunk, you're probably going to open your trunk whether you like it or not. If you refuse, they will assume you have a reason and they aren't going to just let you drive away without finding out why. I may not necessarily agree with this sort of thing, but it is reality. I personally know people that it's happened to.

In Minnesota we are not required to inform the officer unless asked. Although, long before CCW was allowed, one of the first questions asked during a traffic stop is "are there any drugs or weapons in your vehicle?"

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"Shall not be infringed"

Oklahoma requires that you inform the officer that you are carrying when you have any official contact.
My wife got stopped for speeding and initially forgot to tell the officer. She remembered just after the officer was walking back to her car to call in the license, etc. When she got back to my wife's car my wife told here she was carrying and handed her the license for that.
Officer: "You should have told me that when I first spoke to you."
Wife: "I remembered that as you were walking back to your car. I almost yelled back to you "I have a gun!", but then decided to wait."
Officer: (Laughing) OK, just remember to do it right the next time."

Good point Poser,

If everyone that has nothing to hide gladly opens their trunk when asked to, does a cop have reasonable suspicion when a person refuses to open their trunk????

I have always given them my CHL---when I got it---before that, I just kept my mouth shut.
Course, I been carrying for a lot longer than the CHL was.
Now, I gave my CHL to the Abbiville Sheriff as he was trying to fill quota---he looked at it and asked what it was---this was after he asked for my registraion papers and I thought I was going to be hauled in when I said it was on my windshield and he argued the point.
True story, without any add-ons.
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

C.C. is relatively new in Wisconsin. One mourning while driving to work, 5:00am, I get pulled over for a burned out headlight bulb, which had just happened that mourning.

The officer asked to see my D.L. , so I gave it to him and stated that I have my C.C. permit and gave that to him also. He asked where the Firearm was located . I told him, and that was all that was said about that. He then told me to get headlight fixed. He did not even give me a 5 day repair ticket. First time I wasn't given one of those. Very friendly officer.

I've never heard this, nor would I take my legal information from a novel anymore than I would from a TV show or movie.

The way I was taught the law on search and seizure, probable cause or a warrant is required to search a trunk or other area outside of the control of the occupants.

I'm in PA , and though we don't have to , on the infrequent occasions I get pulled over , or go thru a check-point , I always tell the officer and hand him my LTCF as well as my D/L.

Consenting to a search lowers the bar for the police considerably. Getting a warning now becomes the very least of your warnings. By consenting you lose almost all of the leeway your attorney would have in the event of a prosecution. A good "alerting" on something could well be a bluff on their part. It's not illegal for the police to mislead suspects about this sort of thing. That's if there is even a dog available, very often there isn't as there are only so many K-9 units available and they are more and more becoming specialized. Most dogs can track suspects, but after that they are specialized. Gun dogs, drug dogs, explosive dogs, etc.

During a K-9 familiarization class the officer told us dogs can be trained to do two things, not more. One is to track and hold suspects, the other a specialty.

You might be tempted to think I'm anti cop. I'm not, I worked with police officers for almost 34 years and was in the same union with them for almost 20 of those years.

Even with that I would no more let a police officer have a look in my trunk than I would let one wander around my house taking a look at things without a warrant.

Requiring them to follow the Constitution and the law protects me, them, and every other law abiding citizen.

In WA, we have no requirement to notify when stopped. As soon as he runs the license though, he will know you have a CPL and know what guns you own that were sold to you, or transferred, to you in WA. Yet, we don't have registration of firearms. And no, the couple of times I have been stopped, I have not informed the LEO, and I still did not get a ticket, or have to open my trunk.

bob

License plate or drivers license? Driver need not be registered owner of a vehicle.

We don't have registration of firearms in PA either , it's against the law.

However the state police maintain an illegal "record of sale database'.

I fully understand the ramifications of foregoing our constitutional rights. As I said earlier, I don't agree with it and I'm not saying that it is the "right" thing to do. I also fully understand the "slippery slope" effect. It is unfortunate, but it's simply a fact that exercising our constitutional rights often gives the impression of guilt. It happens on the street and it happens with juries in a court room. But, in the real world, I'm not a criminal, I have nothing to hide from the law, and opening my empty trunk to let an officer peek inside is much better, and quicker for all involved. Now, if you have a body or something illegal in your trunk, then by all means, exercise all of your rights in order to give your attorney every opportunity to defend you.

Besides, my Jeep doesn't even have a trunk. ;-)

I'm no lawyer either, but I do have extensive experience with the Carroll doctrine and searching vehicles.

You also appear to have not read the full FLETC article that you posted the link to:

If that's not enough, I can send you the Powerpoint I use when teaching vehicle searches.

I was stopped about 6 weeks ago, in rural Texas, for no front license plate. I was cruising along at the speed limit, saw the state trooper coming towards me, then saw him make a u-turn. I've been through this routine a time or two...so I pulled over and waited for him. Sure enough, he came up behind me lights on.

He walked up, asked me if I knew why he stopped me, I said, "No front plate." "Right." Then he asked for license and insurance. I handed him my DL, CHL, and insurance card. He looked at the CHL and asked, "Are you carrying a gun?" "Yes sir I am." "What kind and where?" "A 9mm on my right hip." "Great, just keep your hands on the wheel for me." "No problem." He walks back to his cruiser, comes back a couple of minutes later with a warning for the plate. We wished each other a nice day and went on with our lives.

That's the third or fourth time, I've been stopped since getting my permit ages ago. Never a problem. I find communication short, simple, and informative is what cops want. I don't ever TELL a cop I have a gun. I give him my CHL and wait for him ask me what information he wants. I spent a lot of time as a teenager sitting in front of police cruisers, I learned long ago. Answer questions truthfully and shortly, never offer extra information, and keep your hands on the steering wheel.

-Rob