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01-05-2013, 11:11 PM
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Need some input on Judge/Governor for home defense
OK, I need some opinions and I figured why not ask the group whose opinions I actual value?
Some years ago I bought a Judge (before I became a true S&W believer) as a home defense weapon because of the media stories. I liked the idea of the 410 shot or assorted other new loads coming out. (like the Winchester PDX1 410)
I'm considering selling the Judge to finance another purchase of a S&W. It's just sitting in the safe as I don't even take it to the range much anymore. Right now I have my M&P40 next to the bed. I have assorted other choices available. But the Mrs is trying to convince me to keep it because she likes the idea of a shotgun as defense.
What are your thoughts? Keep it, sell it?
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01-05-2013, 11:33 PM
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Keep it. I believe very firmly in shotguns for home defense. I keep a stainless 12 ga ready with pistol grip.
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01-06-2013, 03:03 AM
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My wife also has a judge next to our bed on her side. She likes the ideal of it and its her go to weapon.
I would say this HAPPY WIFE HAPPY LIFE!
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01-06-2013, 11:26 AM
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Gun in safe is no longer a defense gun.
Gun in safe is no longer a defense gun.
"Please Mr. Intruder wait a minute so I can open my safe and get the JUDGE ... "
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It's just sitting in the safe
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Quote:
But the Mrs is trying to convince me to keep it because she likes the idea of a shotgun as defense.
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Bekeart
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01-06-2013, 11:37 AM
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I think the Judge loaded with .45 hollow points will do a heck of alot more damage and stopping power than a .410 shotgun shell. When people hear shotgun, they generally think of something like a 12 gauge blast as seen on tv! The .410 is a small smattering of tiny buckshot compared to the knock down power of a freight train of lead the .45 hollowpoint is.
JMHO
Chuck
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01-06-2013, 11:42 AM
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Real World Tests Found:
Bird shot is useless.
Slugs are woefully inaccurate out of it.
.45LC is effective in it.
000 buckshot is excellent in it to 15 feet, after that is spreads out and rapidly loses velocity, at 30' it ineffective.
Maybe that data will help you, you know the range you bought it for. My strongest input would be, stay away from slugs and bird shot.
***Tests done using 3" Judge.
There's some good info here:
Check out the link to the SGT's comments/tests in particular.
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01-06-2013, 11:45 AM
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Ahem, that "tiny" buckshot is .360, so it's comparable to three 9mm rounds at once.
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01-06-2013, 01:19 PM
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The first question is, will your wife use another weapon? You should consider what she will use for her defensive weapon...the best weapon for her is the one she can and will use. A gun that she can't or wont use is of no use.
Having said that, I like the Governor (I've owned several Taurus handguns, including a Judge, and I don't care for them) much better than the Judge, but I think both have limited utility. I've owned a Governor, but sold it.
If your wife likes a shotgun, it really isn't one...it does shoot shot shells, but it is still a handgun. There are pros and cons to an actual shotgun too...the longer barrel gives the shot better velocity, pattern, and reach, and there are more effective gauges available for home defense, such as a 12 gauge. The downside to an actual shotgun is that it is less maneuverable and may have limited capacity (double barrel) or be slower for subsequent shots (pump) as opposed to the Governor.
At close ranges, the .410 defense loads for the Governor can be devastating, but those are very close ranges. Of course, one could argue that as the range increases, the need to fire the gun in self defense may decrease. Nevertheless, I can't imagine any bad guy getting a face full of even bird shot at 15 feet away would be too interested in continuing the fight. If you (or your wife) completely understand the limits of your loads, then it can be a good defensive weapon. Also, the Governor does allow for loading mixed rounds: a couple of .410 followed by 4 rounds of .45 ACP, for example. If you are only going to use .45 ACP rounds, there are other, better choices for that.
The other downside to the Governor is finding a range that will let you fire the shotgun rounds. My range will allow it, if no one else is there. Of course, there are ranges that are set up for shot gun shoots.
Another consideration is that with the anti-gun frenzy, we may only be allowed to own revolvers. I don't think that is at all likely, but it might not be a bad thing for everyone to own a revolver as part of their collection.
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01-06-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW_shooter
OK, I need some opinions and I figured why not ask the group whose opinions I actual value?
Some years ago I bought a Judge (before I became a true S&W believer) as a home defense weapon because of the media stories. I liked the idea of the 410 shot or assorted other new loads coming out. (like the Winchester PDX1 410)
I'm considering selling the Judge to finance another purchase of a S&W. It's just sitting in the safe as I don't even take it to the range much anymore. Right now I have my M&P40 next to the bed. I have assorted other choices available. But the Mrs is trying to convince me to keep it because she likes the idea of a shotgun as defense.
What are your thoughts? Keep it, sell it?
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I have shot the Judge several times but will not own any Taurus products. I've several break right out of the box and after only a few hundred rounds. No thanks.
Most of the Judges that I've fired or handled had horrible triggers that required quite a bit of hand strength.
And the idea of a shotgun the size of a handgun is purely a novelty without much usefulness. It is not a shotgun. It is not accurate enough to use buckshot even at close range. And 45LC can be a handful because the gun is so light.
If yours works then that's a good thing. Get rid of it. Buy a good used K frame or Ruger Sp 101 and load it with 38 +p.
The above is merely my opinion based on limited experience with the Judge. But my limited experience with them is by choice.
I would not leave such a gun for my wife knowing it's limitations. And the ammo made for it is also a novelty that was only produced to meet demand. The ammo has yet to be proven.
I have a old Smith model 19 that I leave in a pistol box for my wife. She knows that all she has to do is pull the trigger. She knows that recoil isn't an issue. And she knows the 38 will get the job done.
If there is any doubt in your mind about the Judge, get rid of it. If you have no doubts about the gun in your WIFES hands then keep it. Maybe.
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01-06-2013, 04:17 PM
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I would prefer my wife shoot the 410 in the home and not 45 LC. Because I know the 410 is not going thru the walls.
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01-06-2013, 07:16 PM
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Hey guys and dolls, thanks so far for the input. It has helped me to consider a couple issues. I didnt mean for it to become a comparison to a shotgun, that was my error in how I phrased my post.
I was originally curious about what you thought about the 410 loads that are available as home defense. I have shot the various loads like the Winchester PDX1 and they have some merrit at close proximity but I believe they are not as effective at distance past 10 feet. (based on my trips to the range and the holes in the paper)
The Mrs does have a 38 at bedside that I keep loaded with 38 +P for her, it has a really smooooooth trigger and she is confident with it. (and surprisingly very accurate) She just likes the IDEA of the Judge but not handling it. The trigger on the Judge is too much for her to pull and keep aim. So she'll be keepping the 38 nearby.
I'll probably keep the Judge (for now) because I get a kick to load with 45LC Cowboy loads and see all the black smoke after each pull of the trigger. Its a pain to clean and my hands get really dirty shooting but its fun. Guess I'll find a different member of the safe to sell.
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01-06-2013, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatesRightist
000 buckshot is excellent in it to 15 feet, after that is spreads out and rapidly loses velocity, at 30' it ineffective.
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Ineffective in what test parameters/medium...'gelatin'? Live tissue? real shootings?
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01-06-2013, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSWMTB
Ineffective in what test parameters/medium...'gelatin'? Live tissue? real shootings?
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How about accuracy?
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01-06-2013, 08:35 PM
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I like the governor, i have one and it is more than adequate for a home defense gun.....but I feel there are better choices for a "night stand weapon" I might get blasted for this but to me the governor/judge is a novelty....
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01-07-2013, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlrhiner
How about accuracy?
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I think most Governor owners have reported surprisingly good accuracy with .45 ACP and .45 LC rounds.
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01-07-2013, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC
I think most Governor owners have reported surprisingly good accuracy with .45 ACP and .45 LC rounds.
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As I've said in other posts about this fad, if that's what your going to shoot out of it, there are better tools. It makes a poor shotgun.
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02-27-2013, 04:16 PM
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I just read all the posts on these.{ and going to get one this week}The nine shot model 85 Taurus will get replaced.She always said the 22cal would do it.Wait till i show her this bad boy.. the 460 bear kit i did have just scared her..{ about three years ago}I should have kept it just for the 'Cool Factor"
but like a fool sold it.It won't happen with the gov man.
RON K.
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02-27-2013, 09:09 PM
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These shotgun pistols make excellent snake guns.
For home defense? Meh... There are just too many better choices. Personally I'd rather have six rounds of .38 special. Shot placement is king and follow up accuracy is queen. Plus, I won't be deaf afterwards. .38 isn't very stout, but I can put it where I want. What if I wake up and someone has my wife or kid and all I have is a firearm that sprays? No thanks. I like the shotgun-pistol concept for a one-shot problem (snakes, car jacker in your window). I wouldn't want to try and fire off five in a row inside in a HD scenario.
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02-27-2013, 09:18 PM
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Flame me if you wish but in my opinion the .410 revolvers are gimmicks that prey on people's misconceptions about shotguns.
I could see a use on varmints around the house though. A shell full of number 12 would be handy.
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02-28-2013, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inFALable
...in my opinion the .410 revolvers are gimmicks that prey on people's misconceptions about shotguns...
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I would agree with you if all these .410 revolvers did was shoot .410 shells. But the Governor also shoots .45 LC and .45 ACP, and to me that represents versatility, not gimmicks. It's not a solution for every problem, but it is a useful tool that suits some people well, and it's fun to shoot.
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02-28-2013, 08:03 PM
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I agree that being able fire .45 Colt and .45 ACP helps the versatility. Its just a very inefficient platform for those calibers.
If I had a rat problem around the farm I would get one.
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02-28-2013, 11:19 PM
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I've liked the potential of the Gov since it was introduced, and continued to support S&W's betterment of the Judge despite some withering public criticism of the concept. Like all firearms, the Gov does have its limitations. I think it's best role is as a woods gun, or yard protector against various critters. For home defense? I'd go with a dedicated 20 or 12 gauge instead, perhaps even a lever gun or handgun depending on my home. The Gov would be formidable at close range for HD/SD, but it wouldn't be #1 on my list.
Also consider pricing. My LGS has a NIB Gov for $650. A Stoeger Coach Gun retails for $500, while a Mossberg 500 goes for $300-350. There are other viable alternatives, and I think the cost savings is a valid consideration whether or not to go with the Gov as the primary HD firearm.
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03-01-2013, 12:01 PM
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If she wants a shotgun, I recommend you sell it and get a shotgun. You could probably find somebody willing to give you enough money to buy an 870 for it. I've heard of the judge making a hell of a varmint gun, and I can see the appeal of having a first round scatter followed by a proper .45 LC, but I'm quite comfortable with a .45 and a 12 gauge separately.
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03-01-2013, 01:17 PM
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I think the Judge is a poor defensive revolver.
In NC Montana, however, they fly off the shelves and bad-mouthing a Judge is one of the surest arguement starters you can think of.
I chalk it up to people thinking that "I've got a shotgun --- so surely that'll make up for my lack of ability/training." It probably won't.
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02-24-2014, 02:51 PM
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when you are awakened from a dead sleep you think you can than see the sights and aim, I will point the gov. and sure I will get em.
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02-24-2014, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingnuut
when you are awakened from a dead sleep you think you can than see the sights and aim, I will point the gov. and sure I will get em.
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Good luck with that.
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02-24-2014, 03:53 PM
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Maybe just me but I would think a face full of bird shot would be an effective deterrent.
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02-24-2014, 03:53 PM
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I've got both a Public Defender Poly and the Gov w/ CT grips and I like them for what they are but I wouldn't intend to use either of them as my primary self defense guns unless I didn't have another choice (though the Gov is a much better gun than the PD both in quality and accuracy). If it was the only gun I owned... well it wouldn't be the only gun I owned, so no point in conjecture as to me they're fun guns but not primary ones. Just IMO, YMMV.
You also said that you have a M&P 40 on your nightstand, does the wife not like to shoot it? If that's the case and she likes shooting the Judge then a gun she's comfortable with is better than one she'll hesitate to use. I would try to find her something else that she's more comfortable with though that would be a better choice for a nightstand gun.
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02-24-2014, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StatesRightist
Ahem, that "tiny" buckshot is .360, so it's comparable to three 9mm rounds at once.
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if they all hit
also they are very light in comparison to a 9mm bullet
its at its best with 45 LC with any honest 45 LC revolver doing better.
The more I saw of the Judge concept, the less sense it made.
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02-24-2014, 06:32 PM
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A friend of mine let me shoot the judge at the range. Unimpressed...it misfired every other round. Impressive when the 410 did fire, but I wouldn't trust it on my nightstand. And like Kanewpadle, I'm not a fan of Taurus products (Keltek either).
Last edited by Protected One; 02-25-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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02-26-2014, 08:05 PM
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I was considering a Governor. I thought it was well made and it felt good in the hand. I ended up choosing a Springfield Mil-Spec 1911. This will be my night stand gun, 12 gauge in the office, and 442 in the pocket. Love my 442 for CCW!
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