I'm strongly thinking about buying one of the little 9mm pistols that have come on the market since I last looked for a concealed carry gun.

These little critters are hardly bigger than a PPK, while packing a serious punch.

Now, the problem is that I'm pretty small boned - for my height anyway.

Now, most of the guys I know have wrists nearly as big as my ankles, which leaves me wondering if the recoil of a ~one pound gun will be manageable, not in terms of pain, but in terms of the gun functioning correctly. I can shoot a .38 Airweight snubbie which weighs under a pound pretty well, but it doesn't depend on me controlling the muzzle rise to function correctly. It isn't much fun, but I can shoot it OK.

Years ago, I bought a nice CS45, thinking it was just the thing for concealed carry. That is 'till I took it to the range. One, maybe two shots and it would stovepipe jam. The guys said I was limp wrist-ing it, so I tried holding it tightly and keeping my wrists as stiff as I could and it still jammed.

I had several of the guys at the range try it, and they emptied the magazine without the least trouble. Got 'em all in the scoring rings on a NRA 50' bullseye (at 50') while they were at it.

This experience leaves me pretty leery of tiny guns with big bullets.

I eventually traded the thing off for a wheel gun. The problem is women's clothing: There is a rather limited set of outfits a wheel gun will not print on.

Enter the desire for a small 9mm. They're not near as lumpy as a snubbie.

So, ladies, how do you do with an M&P Shield or one of the smaller critters? Should I get one, or should I go with a .380? Guys, how do your wives do with little 9s?

Thanks in advance,

Janet L.

Lots of great questions. There is a big difference between the .45 and the 9mm in terms of recoil, so I think you might be ok with the CS9 and the failures. However, you said the airweight revolver you could shoot, but recoil was not pleasant. I think the CS9 will be similar recoil wise since it's a lightweight too.

My thoughts? If you are that tiny, I'd probably lean towards the .380. A gun you can shoot well but may be a smaller bore is better than a larger bore gun you can't shoot well. If you have to pull the gun (god forbid) and you anticipate recoil, that's trouble. Also, the .380 will be very easy to conceal.

One more thought. Have you looked at the bra holsters? You might be able to carry a wheel gun in one of those and conceal it very well.

My wife has not started shooting yet (soon though) so I can't give you her opinion on caliber and recoil yet. Sorry.

Good luck.

Caution is the watchword w/the current crop of sub compact autos. Some work great while others, same model & brand, are trouble prone. That said I do own a Keltec P32 but only carry it when deep concealment is needed. My EDC is either a 442 or Colt Corba.

You said you shot the J frame okay so my suggestion is to go w/that. If you do a Youtube search there are several good videos by women showing how they conceal their revolvers.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I'm very reluctant to trust any of the super-small (smaller than a Glock 26) pistols. Reliability of function seems to be an issue with the small semi-automatics, much more so than the full size ones.

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Centennial Every Day

A "J" frame is too long and too lumpy for my wife so she wanted an auto and settled on a .380 because of recoil and size. I do not trust any striker fired or internal hammer auto with one in the barrel. If it has an outside hammer and is carried cocked it is the same as striker fired. If the hammer is carried down it has to be cocked before it can fire which could be a problem. Her solution was a S&W BG.380. It works the same as a "J" frame. It is safe to carry one in the barrel. Pull the trigger and the hammer rolls back and fires. The hammer follows the slide down so it doesn't stay cocked. Steel cased ammo doesn't work in it. PMC, American Eagle and Winchester works good. My brother also has one and it is what he carries every day. Larry

With a semi-auto you MUST BE ABLE,

To WORK THE SLIDE,

Not Limp-Wrist it when firing,

and PRACTICE the Failure To Fire Drills often, without hesitation.

Depending upon your wardrobe, Shoulder holsters are better suited

to many women, There are the BRA holsters, Handbag holsters,

Day Planner holsters, Pocket holsters, IWB and OWB holsters, and Ankle holsters.

I normally advise females to carry a REVOLVER due to all that's involved with the Semi-Auto.

Go try some Semis is a range rents them or a friend has one.

If you can make it function, will practice THE DRILLS, keep the action CLEAN AND LINT/DEBRIS FREE.

Go For It.

The Sig 238 is a nice 380 (it's a mini 1911 style).

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Hey Janet
I will add my input. I carry a Ruger LCP 380 in a Nemesis in my back pocket. I am a 5 9 140 lb guy. I have no problem working the slide on a semi auto and am very used to them having shot semi my whole life. Now my GF on the other hand has a lot of trouble with most slides on semi autos. So for her we got a Smith Airweight. She has no trouble with the LCP slide but she is not entirely comfortable with semis just yet.

I have a Kahr P380. IMHO and personnal experience, these little buggers (Keltec, Ruger, Sig, Kahr) are completely reliable IF they're broken in properly, and are fed the proper ammo.

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John

I sounds like the Sig P238 might be your best bet. It is VERY concealable, and it has more mass than most other 380s. This added mass helps reduce recoil. The P238 has a REAL set of sights, which makes it the most accurate 380 that I have shot. Most people who shoot 380s are all over the place with their grouping because the guns are so small they are hard to control. This is not the case with the P238. I am also a big Kahr fan, and they make a pretty neat P380, but I have read about some reliability issue with this gun. I have never had any problem with the two Kahrs that I have had, but I have never owned the P380. Again, this gun also has more mass than the standard 380, and it also has REAL sights on it. The Sig P238 may be a bit sleeker than the Kahr P380.

Ive been keeping an eye on the field reports of the springfield XDs in 45.
This little pocket rocket seems to be making quite a name for itself.
its recoil is said to be quite manageable while its reliability is well oiled machine class. Add to that a growing reputation for accuracy and I have to advise at least a test drive of this gun before any decisions are made with the checkbook.

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it just needs more voltage

I own a Kel-Tec PF9, and will admit it's quite a handful to shoot. The girlfriend doesn't like it at all, but she can fire it successfully if the need arises. She did like the M&P Shield 9mm I had in my care for a few weeks over the summer, and had no issues handling it.

I just shot a buddy's Ruger LC9 over the weekend, and it was easier to control, and friendlier on the recoil than my PF9. Recoil was probably right in between the Shield and the PF9.

I have tried and tried to get the wife to give up her .380 PPK/S for something with more of a punch. I bought her a 3913 Lady Smith, she said the PPK fit better, ok. I bought a Ruger LC9 with crimson trace, that did not work either. Now I just make sure she has good ammunition for the .380. In the meantime, I have become attached to the LC9, its narrow and small enough for concealed carry. It to me is dependable with a hammer instead of a striker fired. The hammer is not exposed, but it does have a hammer. It is slightly bigger than the .380 LCP, but easier to handle. I keep it loaded with 147 grain sub-sonics 9mm. Its worth taking a look at for yourself.

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Mike in SouthCentral Kentucky

Too many men either husbands or boyfriends possibly a pinheaded gun store salesman want TO CHOOSE THE LADIES FIREARM.

We're talking Apples and Oranges here, her hand strength is usually less as is her trigger finger reach and she is less tolerant of recoil.

Let her figure it out as to what FEELS GOOD AND FITS HER.

Let her choose the recoil and caliber SHE can handle most efficiently.

You need to go back and watch football or something, maybe you can go TWEET RAMBO.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I have carried small autos as a second, more often a third gun. Do not have a huge amount of trust in them. Sort of like two is one, and one is none.

Too each his/her own

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the world is round everywhere

My wife has strength problems in her hand so she tried the S&W Body Guard .380 it also has a laser which for some reason she likes. She has no problems racking the slide or fireing it, she likes it and can handle it and not that large. We don't like revolvers but that is our prefence which would be easier to operate. Remember a gun you can handle is a gun you will carry. One at home does you no good. I carried a p64, size of a ppk fits pocket very well but is a 9X18 slightly better then .380 until I got my Kahr CW45. Go to gun shop and handle the smaller guns, rack the slides and ask if you can dryfire, some shops don't like that. Maybe they might let you fire one if they have a range there or rent you one so you can compare this would be to your advantage so you don't buy the wrong one.

My wife carries a M&P9C in a dedicated holster purse. She's 5ft 110lb. Her profession prohibits belt carry. It's not as small as a Shield, but works for her.

A purse requires additional caution for retention. It's slower than a belt holster, but beats leaving it in the car. You can, however, place your hand on the gun when you feel you need it in a hurry.

We viewed the bra holster on U-Tube and decided there is no way that the gun is not being pointed at parts of her body we would prefer not to have holed during the draw. With a purse holster, you keep your off hand on the strap to stabilize it.

My GF can shoot my Shield 9 just fine, but much prefers her Kel-Tec P32. But she is pretty petite. Absolutely hated my P-3AT.

Let me explain further - I am not a tiny little thing who can't work a slide - fewer than one in a hundred women are as tall as I am. My range guns include a CZ97 .45 and a CZ75b 9mm, They shoot very well and digest anything I've asked 'em to swallow with reliably approaching 100%.

I've carried a Kel Tec P32 'till nearly all the finish on the slide is worn off, mostly on my skin or the inside of my bra strap and clothes, but I've got to worrying about it 'cause .32 is not noted as a fight stopper, the sights are really poor, and the ammunition is expensive enough that I'm way too cheap to train enough to shoot it from the hip. I figure it's a 10' gun at most. I call it the mouse gun, but it's gotten to be like a piece of underwear to me. Might still carry it as a backup when I work out a good carry option for something bigger.

As I said, the Airweight isn't much fun to train with, but I have shot it a fair bit - it's what I shot to qualify for my concealed carry permit. If I found something that was like a 3/5 scale 1911, I'd shure be tempted. . .

As for worrying about having one up the pipe, I just don't. Maybe that's 'cause I haven't ever seen a negligent discharge. In open carry situations I normally carry in condition 1 - Chambered round, safety on, thumb break strap between hammer & the slide, even my traditionaldouble action CZs.

The Kahr CM9 is a good gun. Not too big and recoil isn't bad. Flat and easy to conceal.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Janet,

I think that a 9mm like the Shield, would work well for you. I'm a big guy, but I've owned most of the guns mentioned. I love my CZ75B, but my EDC is a Shield. The Kahr CW9 recoiled about like an Airweight .38 Special (637). My wife can handle them, but doesn't like shooting either.

The 9mm Shield recoils just a little heavier than my alloy CZ75B. All are more pleasant to shoot than a .380 PPK/PPKs.

Janet L.,

Before moving on, try some FULL WADCUTTER AMMO, in the Airweight.

148 Grain Full Wadcutters
Fiocchi, Federal, Remington

A 38 caliber round that makes a FULL CALIBER WOUND CHANNEL even without it expanding.

I have ladies use it in an Airweight, MUCH better than the recoil of other ammo, especially the +P stuff that husbands and boyfriends buy for them.

+P ammo and Airweights are NO FUN AT ALL.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Janet L.,

Several Weeks ago I shot a friends Kimber SOLO 9MM.

It's SMALL, FLAT, VERY HARD TO RACK THE SLIDE, EXPENSIVE,

AND IT DOES RECOIL A HAND FULL.

Overall, I was not impressed with it, but it's owner liked it, even with the double spring slide.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I would be careful with SOLO's. They had a lot of problems early on.

Kahr CW9, P9, CM9 or PM9. Are very nice compact slim handguns. Ive owned the CW9. Its the bigger of the bunch. PM9 is only slightly smaller, if im not mistaken its a shorter grip. CM and PM are the smallest. They are the same gun but the PM is laser engraved and has a metal guide rod thus more expansive. The CW has stamped engraving and a plastic guide rod.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Small 45's are sometimes challenging. Even for folks who are use to shooting full size 45's.

I would suggest you try a 3913. Slightly larger than a PPK. 9mm chambering. 8+1 capacity. Thin and relatively light weight. Tack driving accurate and bet your life reliable.

Out of the seventeen females I've taught to shoot in the last decade, using a 3913 as their first service caliber semi auto, one dozen of them went on to purchase their own 3913. Most went for the "LadySmith" version.

These pistols are readily available on the gun auction boards such as Gunbroker. Some can be found LNIB. Around $575 to $650 depending on condition and extras such as extra mags, box and documents. Still less money than you might pay for other lesser guns.

If you like plastic striker fired guns, try a Walther PPS. A guy on my squad has one and it has given him good service. Very thin 9mm.

Based on extensive personal experience I would avoid any Kimber product. Good luck! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

I am a fan of the pocket nines. However, once you get below the Glock 26/S&W Shield sized guns, and get into the Kahr CM/PM,/Sig P938/Beretta Nano sized guns, you really need to wring them out before actually carrying them. Tiny guns firing high pressure rounds can be quirky at first. In my experience, the sights on the Sig and Beretta are so good that they easily become 25 yard guns. In addition, the recoil is substantially less than aluminum J frame Smiths, and they are actually fun to practice with. I have no personal experience with the Kimber Solo or the Kahr CM/PM line.

The Taurus PT 709 is a lightweight, THIN, 9MM, that is not too bad to shoot, I've had one and incurred ZERO problems with it's function.

Friends that have shot it, liked it, and they liked the reasonable price for it.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

"If I found something that was like a 3/5 scale 1911, I'd shure be tempted."

A Sig Sauer 938 might be worth looking at, like a 1911 that went through the dryer and shrunk a little.


Don

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Plankowner-USS Chicago CG11

I carry the 457, compact .45. It is, as some would say, a little bulky. So if I want to run down to the store, but still carry, I grab the wife's peppy .380 Bodyguard and slip it in the pocket and off I go. I'm a skinny little guy also. Perfect matchup IMHO.

Agree. Buffalo Bore makes some non +P 38 special low flash wadcutters with 150grs that approaches 900fps in a 2" revolver. Pretty nice SD load that is handled nicely in an airweight.

Fine for practice, but penetration would likely be lacking, more so from a 2" gun, with velocity about 600fps. The DPX which will expand and penetrate is very manageable and need not be shot for practice.

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the world is round everywhere

GLVO,

You need to consult with some ballistics experts about the penetration of a FULL WADCUTTER and it's wound channel.

You just may be enlightened about it's characteristics.

I carry them in an Airweight and recommend my students try and use them too.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

GLVO,

Buffalo Bore 150 grain Full Wadcutter,

Hard Cast, Low Flash.

868FPS and 261 lbs energy from 2" barrel

14" to 16" of penetration in human flesh.

Easier shooting than their +P loads.

Full Caliber sharp bullet edge for full sized wound channel.

When you feel your WHEATIES, STAND INFRONT OF 5 OR 6 OF EM'.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I'd rather shoot my Shield 9, 9c or 3913 than my BG380. Heck I think my 4513 shoots easier than my BG380. Those small autos can pack a good recoil.

As 18DAI said, the 3913 is a favorite gun of many. Weight wise it's within a couple ounces of a M&P9c.

Today I am carrying my Shield 9. It's a touch smaller than the 3913, and lighter, and so far it is dependable. I'd just rather bang it around than any of my third gens so it's getting a little holster time.

I think you'd be happier with a small 9 because you know guns and you can handle them. I only resort to my .380 when I want to pocket carry and my wife has my 642.

For concealment ideas, I really like watching the videos by FaliaPhotography Concealed Carry Holsters & Outfits for Women - YouTube she is so common sense and can conceal her guns really well, even in a dress. She's 5'4 120lbs and just has some great videos.

Great info here, this is why I joined the forum! I carry a 638, but I am also looking at a semiauto, probably 9mm. Really eyeing the Ruger LC9. Tried my friend's BG .380, not bad, felt a bit small for my hand, though.

As Janet mentioned, the revolver just doesn't work with some items in the wardrobe. I don't purse carry, I don't feel like it's completely in my control that way. I carry at work since I'm usually alone in the store, so I need it well hidden. Am currently using a Remora for the .38. So, bigger than a .380 but smaller than my 638. Lots of great suggestions mentioned above, more research for me to do!

If you are concerned with limp wristing - stay away from the P3at - it is a brute to shoot and you have to have a good grip or it will stovepipe on you. On the other hand, my PM9 has been flawless - I tried to stovepipe it by limp wristing it on purpose and couldn't get it to misfire.

Your size and strength have nothing to do with shooting. Unless you get into magnum calibers, any of the common auto calibers will suffice. Go with what feels good in your hand. Recoil is not an issue as much as technique is. With practice, you'll learn how to stay on target, and focus on the front sight. Don't choose the gun based on size. Work your wardrobe around your choice of firearm.

DPX is sill better. Go shoot some. DPX exhibits outstanding penetration, low recoil for a +P round, and does not fragment. Don't knock it until you see for yourself.
http://www.shopcorbon.com/DPX-Handgu...20/200/Product

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Knew,

The Specs shown for the DPX is through a 4" barrel and are +P's

She can shoot an AIRWEIGHT but says it's not fun, Been there done that with +P's.

That why I suggested Full Wadcutters, not a +P version.

The one I listed the specs were from a 2" barrel also not a 4".

As for a semi-auto the original poster also has limp-wristing problems, so nix that.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I would suggest that you take a serious look at the glock 26 9mm.
Very rugged and reliable. Due to their design Glocks are a bit easier
to rack the slide on than many other autos. As for limp-wristing you
will just have to fire one and see for yourself. Always using both hands
when firing the gun might help in this issue so a design that is easier
to grip rather than being the most compact in it's class might be best.

Moon, you obviously have no experience with DPX. As I stated above, recoil is not an issue with DPX. Even though it is a +P round, you wouldn't know it if you shot it.

I don't doubt the validity of wad cutters or Nyclads but more modern technology has left them in the dust.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Knew,

I'll have to give them a try.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Beware, they are expensive. If it wasn't so cost prohibitive I would send you some.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

[QUOTE=Moonman;136921558]GLVO,

Buffalo Bore 150 grain Full Wadcutter,

Hard Cast, Low Flash.

868FPS and 261 lbs energy from 2" barrel

14" to 16" of penetration in human flesh.

Easier shooting than their +P loads.

Full Caliber sharp bullet edge for full sized wound channel.

The above and DPX 110 gr +P. It will be obvious the BB will have more recoil. Reason: bullet weight.


Next, put both thru calibrated 10% Vyse. At 868FPS, velocity would be about 16% less than the DPX, yet bullet weight is 36% more.

I have shot DPX over the clock and in Vyse, from my 642. We also tested it out of a 640, expansion was to .595 thru 4 layers of denim. Penetration was 13.65". The 642 was .540 expansion.

I am not going to argue which is better. I have never shot anyone with anything.

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the world is round everywhere

GAVO,

Lots of people in the ground, put there by LEO'S and others with a 38 Special 158 grain lead round nose bullet.

We've come a long ways, but you being a EMT, know most gunshot victims do survive.

Amazing the punishment the human body can take at times and still survive.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I am in south FL I've called gun stores pawn shops Internet and even went to the Suncoast Gun Show today. No Shields anywhere. SW website says available in Spring 2013. What is the deal? Should I keep waiting or just get the MP 9C?

Becman 432,

Demand, Demand, Demand.

S&W really did their homework in designing the SHIELD.

It was one of the most successful launches of a new firearm.

People were ard still are GRABBING THEM OFF THE SHELVES.

S&W has been extremely busy on their production.

Now a Paniced Public is joining the fray for firearms purchases.

Be pacient, instant gratification just doesn't work here, good things take time.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Hello Janet, and welcome to the forum.
Besides the 3913, you may want to look at the SIG P239, and Springfield EMP. I've had all three and they a work extremely well, accuracy is downright scary, and recoil depends on the pistol and load. The EMP has the least recoil, the Smith is next, and SIG last due to its higher bore axis. But I wouldn't call it detrimental to good shooting.
And I think Federal reintroduced the 125gr. non-+P Nyclad round (or "Chiefs Special load") expressly designed for snubbys. You might want to give then a try too. Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

Go ahead and give the Shield a good hard look. Of all the sub-subcompact 9s on the market, that one appears to be the most comfortable to shoot and probably has a trigger better than all of the others. As far as concealment goes, start shopping on the net and see what the custom gunleather crafters are offering for women. You may find that you need more than one holster to match your wardrobe, and that's true for us guys, too. Sig now offers the little single action 9mm (938 I think) which might be a good alternative. I haven't found one 380 that I thought I could live with for very long, and wouldn't force one on my wife, either. If she wants a small gun, she can put forth the effort to become proficient with a J-frame or a little nine, or something else (anyone carrying a pistol should be willing to put forth the effort to become proficient.).

Just threw some money down for a bersa thunder 380 over the weekend. Girl friend handled one at a gun show and at a gun shop and said "Thats the one" She wanted something with a safety and something manageable recoil wise. Its a pretty nice shooting pistol we put 60 rounds or so through it and I was impressed. Rethinking about a small semi auto to replace my Jframe with now. (Jframe rocks my wrists to hard which are messed up from work)

My sister's husband and two boys are very much into military rifles and handguns. My brother in law bought my sister a Smith model 37..... under the logic that a .38 is bare minimum defensive carry. He is very much about "nothing but a .45" I can't say I've ever seen him actually carrying. Generally if he has a gun it is under the front seat of his vehicle in a gun rug.

My sister wanted something light and compact to cary in her purse. she carried the model 37 for a few years. She described the range practice sessions as miserable and unsuccessful due to the recoil. Finally one of my nephews had an "ah ha" moment. After taking her on a new gun shopping trip she settled on a SIG P232. While it is not a small .380 it works perfectly as a purse gun. Even after her husband stoked it with hot hollow points she says it is a pleasure to shoot. Her targets are testimonial.