Did everybody notice the first page and the last page of this thread sound exactly the same.....Tells me we all have our own opinions and we will never agree......This is the first thread I can remember where there has been open animosity present......We won't agree period...So why try?? I bet not one mind set has changed anybody's opinion..

Mi amigo, Dave,

Is that factory nickel on that Heavy Duty? Needs a T-Grip. Other than that, sweet!

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

Please note that the animosity is, for the most part, on the side of the "concealed carry only" folks, those advocates for the sneaky, underhanded way of carrying handguns.

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

I wish I could say this is the first thread where I've seen "open animosity present", but it's not. Fortunately it's rare on this splendid forum. It does seem that open carry is often the acrimonious subject.

I don't care if you carry a 75mm pack howitzer slung on your back or an NAA mini-revolver secreted in a body cavity (though I wouldn't envy you the job of explaining the former or cleaning the latter). My choice is to carry concealed--guess I'm one of those "underhanded" guys. I've thought through that decision quite thoroughly. It's what makes sense to me, for me.

It's your choice and your right to carry a gun however is legal in your jurisdiction. I'm too cynical to believe open carry educates the antis, but if you entertain that hope, go for it.

It's been my stated choice not to read any more of these invariably contentious and circular threads, but like an idiot I always seem to hope one will be different.

Never happens.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Ain't it the truth?

See, I don't have a problem with that. You made the right decision for you. You didn't call anyone names or deride their choice. Well done!

I'm not out to "educate" anyone, myself.

Sad, isn't it?

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

If only the world were lolipops and marshmallows. Sigh.

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Sure you did

Ladder, I think that we could argue about which was best.

Boys,

It sure look'd like it was gonna be touch and go here for awhile....

I have to say, some of the proponents for concealed carry had some purty good reasonin' on their side....

If one appears to be a lit'l touch'd or might be a suspected criminal, out-right insane, dis-honorable in all things,

having domestic woos, suffers from IBS, halitosis, or athlete foot, jest to name a few qualifying maladies...

Those folks should carry concealed at all time, as not to disrupt the peace and tranquility of life in the public.





Those of us that live life with a tolerance for those that might breach the above social standard,
(Set forth by a few CCers)



I say...............Party On!!!

I'm not here for a long time, I'm here for a good time!


I think I'll sport this'n to supper to nite.........




.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

It's all really simple. Respect the Constitution and the laws of the 44 states , soon to be 45, that have an OC statute on the books.
If you disagree with those laws then move to one of the other 6, soon to be 5, or run for your state legislature and fight to amend OC laws to suit you.

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Sure you did

Oh, if you think the above is simplistic, I read the same thing here daily in regards to those of us living in NY, NJ, MA, etc .... "Just move" they say.

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Sure you did

Well folks, as the old saying goes: It's been fun, and it's been real, but at no point was it real fun. (With obvious exception for Mr. Keith44 trying to lighten the mood at times, of course. )

My thanks go to the posters who voiced reasoned views on why they disagreed with OC, but also didn't resort to ad hominem to make their points.

In closing, I'll state once again that I fail to see what good can come of demonizing people who are doing nothing illegal. We must also acknowledge that sometimes, much needed societal changes have resulted from judicious rocking of the proverbial apple cart, which sometimes approaches or even rises to the level of civil disobedience.

While I don't always agree with the method of "delivery," I recognize the validity of the "message" nonetheless.

And with that, I'm bowing out.

It's the damnedest thing, I don't remember anyone here wanting to amend the OC laws or disrespect the Constitution. Maybe I missed it. I certainly wouldn't want to do either here in Kentucky, where OC has been legal far longer than CC. What I have seen here is some people who don't much like OC and don't do it.

I'm not even in that camp. I don't dislike OC but don't choose to do it. Just call me the Invisible Man. That's how I'm comfortable. I'm old and like my life simple. There are lots of things I can do legally but choose not to.

I don't care for lollipops or marshmallows either, but I like "You're an idiot or un-American if you don't agree with me" much less, and I have seen some of that. On most subjects people on this fine forum seem to be able to disagree without taking umbrage. This just doesn't seem to be one of them.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I see what you did.

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Sure you did

The net is full of arguments for and against any subject at hand.

I have and do concealed carry, but also open carry.

I enjoy the freedom this country offers by way of our forefathers wise decisions and
unselfish convictions in drafting those oh so precious papers so long ago.


Concealed Carry at is finest........

Or maybe not...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmTvAZvJ5Mc



You decide.....


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Hahaha like that a lot.

We can open carry in Michigan, but I don't see much need for it, we're a shall issue state.
I don't want anyone to know I have a gun, until they hear it go off.

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John

I'd want a pair of them Glocks....In Detroit

Don't let em kid ya too awful much about that Glock.

Why, to tell a closely guard secret, I may have carried a glock in
.357 Sig once upon a time my own self.....Concealed of course


Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Open carry just SHOWS ISIL, or the Taliban, or the local street thug that YOU need to taken out FIRST.
Open is carry is DUMB on a scale beyond the normal level of stupid.
IF I were planning to rob a Micky-D's and saw some goofus sitting there munching a Q-Pdr, with his Wilson, Combat Extreme, Wild-Bill-Special, Close-Quarters-Combact, Tactical 1911-S, super-duper, lightweight tucked into an OPEN HOLSTER....I'd SHOOT HIM IMMEDIATELY!

Open carry is what people who live in a clueless world want....

I agree, open carry isn't something I would want to do...it's analogous to putting a sign on your back that reads, "SHOOT ME I'M ARMED!"

Open carry is what some buffoon does because he mistakenly believes only HE is carrying a weapon....while strolling through, or sitting in a room filled with people who are also EQUALLY armed, only they aren't sending out a signal to criminals that says, "shoot me first!"

Wells, I did not know alls that.............^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Dag-nabbit, in forty something years I ain't been snuck-up on and shot in public nary a time....

Just how many times have one of you'll pud-knockers even heard,
let'l on able prove, that someone has been shot or shot at in public, for carrying a sidearm?

Inquiring minds jest got to know.......


Opinions are not facts!

I see open carry in the Commonwealth daily...

Never even heard of anyone being targeted and or being shot by a criminal plyin' his trade.

I believe that's jest a urban miff



Open Carry equals less mischief in the world.

That is all for today.
.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

nquiring minds jest got to know.......

In 40 something years how many times have you been walking around carrying a GUN openly and had a criminal miscreant walk in?
I suspect NEVER!
As I said and stand by in my post, if I were the criminal, the FIRST THING I would do is shoot EVERYONE who was clearly armed...and I'd do it BEFORE they ever knew it was coming.

NO human can be vigilant beyond that...

Carrying a gun in the open is stupid....but if YOU want it, and if YOU can get your State Legislature to pass such an idiotic bill...more power to you.
Opinions are not facts!

I see open carry in the Commonwealth daily...

Never even heard of anyone being targeted and or being shot by a criminal plyin' his trade.

I believe that's jest a urban miff



Open Carry equals less mischief in the world.

That is all for today.
.[/QUOTE]

When doing anything, I try to look at pros and cons. I just do not see any reason to open carry in most settings. Walking through the woods or desert, or fishing, there are no people around and the need might arise that you need the weapon quickly. Animal attacks happen fast. Nobody around to possibly alarm. Don't tie up a cop investigating. In a thread I started about an obviously mentally retarded man open carrying, the OC crowd kept asking why I didn't call the cops if I was so concerned. I didn't call because I wasn't concerned. I knew it was legal so I didn't call. But one thing I know is that just because I wasn't concerned it doesn't mean somebody else won't be and complainants tend to exaggerate when they call 911

I live in PA, an OC state. In 8 years I have seen it maybe 5 times. If you live in an area where it is common then I see no drawback. I believe the OC crowd want their weapons to be seen. It's not a comfort thing. It's "check this out". They range from the extreme like the idiots on YouTube walking around with AR's to the more mellow "so what if I have a gun? I'm not breaking the law". The people I have seen could put their t-shirt over their weapon. Wouldn't make them any less armed or any more uncomfortable. The woman in my state removed a lightweight windbreaker at a soccer game for 8 year olds to reveal her holstered Glock 26, a weapon marketed for concealed carry! She did it to make a stink. I cringed when I saw her interviewed. Just kept blinking rapidly into the camera and repeating "the constitution says I can".

Just because something is legal doesn't mean you SHOULD do it, just that you CAN. I can walk down the street in a speedo and carrying a tuba. But I don't.

I have yet to hear one viable reason for OC. Same response. It's legal. But why do you really do it? If your state has no CC, then I get it. Like those Texas Target idiots. They pulled that stunt because they want to OC a pistol. Texas has CC so it's not like they're unarmed. But instead they strapped rifles to their backs and riled up people. Did they stop to think that people saw those idiots they shopped somewhere else? Doesn't it strike you as odd that such a pro-gun state like Texas, where you can shoot a man for being on your property, doesn't have OC?

[/QUOTE]

Open carry equals duffusus carrying a gun while EVERYONE can see who NEEDS to be shot FIRST!

Go ahead....

Gentlemen, as much as I'd like to entertain all the opinions expressed on this subject,

Speculation, conjecture, personal opines, hearsay and uncle Joes war stories does not carry much weight.

I am more convinced by the hard facts that are above reproach and the solemn testimony of those eyewitness accounts to the facts.



I been a lawman on and off for forty something years, most of which has been plainclothes duty.
I've made a hell of a lot of felony arrests in public.

Currently serving as a Detective for Commonwealth's Attorneys Office.....I get the memos.

I watch where I park my hindend in public.......

Where I come from, everyone is armed, men, women, folks of
all ages, farmers, ranchers, school teachers, doctors, lawyers,
construction workers, nurses, mothers, fathers, policemen,
firemen, good folks from all walks of life.

It's kind of a southern thing, ya understand.

In the Commonwealth of Kentucky the statutes and the state constitution
recognizes that unalienable right that her citizens may arm themselves,
be it open carry of firearms by those 18 years and older, or concealed carry.
21 years and older for concealed carry. And folks do it too!



Are kalifornia criminals just better at what they do?

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

ISIL and the Taliban are going to attack those who OC?

Definitely a keeper for The Top Ten Reasons to not OC.

Can you give a few examples of people who have been killed first because they OC'ed? Should be easy with the many dozens of incidents.

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Sure you did

WOW. We need some new subjects, guys!

Maybe YOU have an example or two of an OCer getting shot first just because he was doing so?

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Sure you did

I think I saw some ISIS guys at the supermarket yesterday.

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Sure you did

No, No, No.....We got 'em surrounded!


This thread brings out the best in the populous here!

Carry On


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Ladder,

In my neck of the woods....when those ISIS fellers show up snipin at OCers.....

There'll be a rifle stickin out from behind every blade of grass, jest a waitin for em


Dave

__________________
"IN GOD WE TRUST"

EXACTLY X2

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Sure you did

WOW....love this thread.......

ISIS is at the door......

Put away the J-Frames and 3913s boys...........

time to break out your "cammies" and M&P AR-15s,...........

I feel sorry for the guys who only have "M&P Sports"

Smoke em if you've got em!

Time for another remake of "Red Dawn"........." Desert Dawn".....

.............."Wolverines!!!!!!"

LOL

I saw an ISIS guy attack the butcher after they saw him carrying a meat cleaver.

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Sure you did

Ladder,

I don't want to be a killjoy here, but there's coming a time when the

naysayers come to realize that there quoted posts are forever recorded
in the annals of forum history to be viewed and dissected for years to come.

Oh, so many times haft they provided comic relief to such a mundane subject such as this.

As I once said, so many times before....

"The spoken word is as free as the breeze it drifts on....

But, the written word is always there, forever more."


Open Carry On Boys!




.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Still haven't seen any proof of open carrier attacked first, except in the case of a uniformed officer of the law assaulted while performing his sworn duties.

Remember the British soldier who was beheaded in the street in England? He was unarmed.

Remember those people at the movie theatre in Colorado?
They were unarmed.

Remember the soldiers at Ft. Hood?
They were unarmed.

(The antis are all using the same arguments, whether as a nation, state or individual. The only difference is the shade of pastel.
Their mantra:
Never ever let the truth get in the way of a deep seated fear of personal responsibility.)

The openly armed, responsible and reasonable individual is always less likely to be be attacked.

And THAT is a supportable fact.

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Halfway and one more step

And ladder:
Don't appear physically fit.
Do not show signs of being aware of your surroundings.
Do not display "non ISIS" jewelry.
Avoid,in any way,showing any ability to defend yourself or your loved ones.

That'll just draw their fire!

Dave: don't close the gate, burglars will surely go after the closed, locked door rather than an open one!
Everybody knows a locked car will get stolen much quicker than an unlocked one.

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Halfway and one more step

If I was a "bad guy" and wanted to rob

a convenience store and saw one or more openly armed individuals shopping or

a Bank that had a armed security guard.........

I would move along to look for a softer target.....why risk such a confrontation..... or risk a murder charge by shooting the guy with the gun.......I want a soft target.......

That said I live in a state that allows open carry but I prefer to carry concealed........

Terrorists attacks/ activity....means its a whole different ballgame... I would change my EDC and my habits/and approach to daily activities....... but I think I would still opt to carry concealed.....because those guys are not looking for a "few bucks" from a soft target......... they have targeted your location ... and you are unlucky enough to be there at the wrong time.......


Edit: Some food for thought...... During WWII we supplied the French Resistance with a single shot .45 pistol (Liberator IIRC) it's purpose was to allow the Resistance fighter(s) to go shoot an "openly armed" German soldier to secure/ Liberate a better weapon............. things that make you go hummmmmm!

There is a myriad of evidence that suggests criminals target those who they believe cannot or will not fight back. I am unaware of any evidence suggesting that criminals target their victims because they know they're armed.

Hey look Joe, that gal over there is carrying a .45 on her hip. Ought to be an easy target for a mugging...

I heard that the Kurds have asked for American pocket holsters to fight back ISIS.

Really? So no banks with armed guards have ever been robbed? Jewelry stores with armed guards? And of course an armored car has NEVER been taken down right? If a perp wants what you got bad enough, he's gonna go for it. And if he's a two time loser looking at life anyway if he gets caught, killing people is no risk. And the first one to get a bullet is the guy with the gun. You think a carjacker who wants your new Lexus is gonna move on cause he sees your gun? I don't

After Newtown, the call went out to allow armed teachers to carry concealed in schools. Argument was having a cop or two there was pointless because they are in uniform and openly armed, and the person intent on massacring people is just gonna shoot them first.

I'm also curious to know how the "OC makes criminals think twice crowd " KNOWS that is the case. How can we know a crime that never happened didn't happen because the perp saw your OC?

Finally, it's funny that proponents of conceal carry (and I am one too) like to say the CC lowers crime because the bad guy never knows who is armed. So states that have both CC and OC should never have gun crimes, right?

How many shootings in gun friendly states like Florida, Georgia, Virginia, North Carolina? Guess the perps are t really that afraid if their victim might have a gun. And why would they be? They're the ones who are gonna initiate the crime. The victim rarely even has time to get to his own gun

Know how I carry? A ruger LC9 in my front right pocket. I walk through parking lots and in areas of higher risk with my hand on the gun in my pocket. Somebody wants my wallet it won't be my wallet coming out of my pocket. Last thing they'll ever see is the muzzle flash. At least I'll have a fighting chance. Sure not gonna able to get to my OC 1911 on my hip, clear leather, and engage the guy. Funny how some people here think they can do that. If he point if carrying a gun is for self defense, then OC only makes that less of a possibility.

Phil,

When I lay down to go to sleep at nite,

Gettin' shot while open carrying a sidearm is on the list of
things to worry about......Just a notch er two below,,,, am I running low on saddle soap????

Why hell, my wife's got more probable cause that any of those terrorist types to sneak-up and shoot me.


I once walked with the governor through the lobby of the Opry Hotel in Nashville and no one seemed even notice.

Everyone's eyesight can't be all that bad...Most folks are so busy with their personal devises,
theys wouldn't know if they were stand ankle deep in horse manure.


Since I'm jest a few miles north of that ol state line....

I find life to be good in the Volunteer State too!



.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Really????

Glad to see yur back on the board..........

Things were getting purty dull around these here parts...


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Yes really.

You don't believe me? Is it so hard to believe? I'm on a gun board. I own guns. I CC. And you forgot to answer my question. If OC is such a deterrent, why do banks, armored cars, and jewelry stores ever get robbed? You're assigning rational thinking to lowlife who think nothing of killing a person over 10 bucks in their wallet.

Well now,

I don't believe it is all that common of an occurrence.

Sorry, but your testimony is just failing to convince me that it is.

I deal in facts that are beyond the shadow of doubt.

I'm not from Missouri...But show me the hard facts...Not jest an opinion.

All My Best.


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

While I do not usually OC in urban areas, I OC in the mountains regularly. I have not figured out a good way to conceal a S&W 6.5" Classic so I don't. I do see OC occasionally and it does not freak out the masses here. Well, it might in the Denver area as they have additional laws restricting OC or if it was an AR being carried, but a pistol on the hip outside of a few restricted areas it is not a rare sight in Colorado.

Would prefer to keep OC legal in case the conceal weapon shows. Another case for OC is if for some unknown reason the CCW permit gets pulled and if you are still legal to have a gun, be able to carry even if it's not concealed.

Have to imagine Governor Perry is thinking about that when he is on one of his walks in the neighborhood after having a felony charges filed against him and his permit pulled (according to TX rules) until that is resolved.

OC has GOT TO BE a deterrent. Can it be proven? Well how could it be proven? A quiz to some crook site how many of you passed on a hit or robbery because the person was armed? I think common sense would tell us its a factor. Of course it didnt seem to work for "the gentile giant" the other day with the armed cop but that would be a aberration.
As a job requirement by DOD I OC`d for 35 years but knew thats how they probley viewed and wanted the requirement. It wasnt to hunt down law breakers, it was to protect US and therefore protect their property. Along with OC they ( more the state of california than the DOD I think,) worked at pounding in our heads that we weren't cops but there to "Observe and report". I did have a little trouble with that view but knew it as the right answer for the tests.

Well sure, some banks are robbed despite having armed guards, but not because there are armed guards. Your argument is way off course.

If a carjacker sees I'm armed is he more likely to move along? Yes. Professor Gary Kleck has done quite a bit of research with guns and self defense, and makes the case that in a great many instances the gun is never fired but simply displayed. I don't believe that it is broken down as displayed in hand vs displayed holstered, but the mere fact that you're armed in the eyes of a carjacker would, I believe, fall into that category.

You're confusing two different arguments, and confusing the meaning of deter. To deter crime with the presence of a gun does not mean crime would altogether cease to exist. Arguments of absolutes like "So states that have both CC and OC should never have gun crimes, right?" is silly.

Not enough time? Who was it that said OC is faster... wasn't that you?

The argument hasn't been entirely void of fact. Some people do suffer an irrational fear at the mere sight of anyone not in uniform carrying a gun (other than themselves in a mirror.... maybe). Hoplophobia is indeed real. So is acrophobia. Just because someone can build a tall building doesn't mean they should. Idiots!