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  #51  
Old 04-21-2013, 09:28 PM
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Not the smartest rock in the box but when did they start putting de-cockers on 1911 models? What did I miss?
The genius that took the gun from the owner evidently knocked off the safety on the 1911, thinking it was a decocker lever.... as I would imagine it was being carried "locked and cocked" and the cop had no clue it was a safety lever and not a decocker lever.

so now the genius is holding a 1911 with one up and no safety on.

Good thing he didn't touch one off into the guys head.
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  #52  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:47 PM
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Bumped into another car in a parking lot. College student in parent's car far from home. His parents wanted a police report, understandable. LE showed up, did investigation and issued me a ticket. First in many years.
I forgot I was carrying. LEO didn't say anything, I didn't say anything, Not required in FL. End of story.
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  #53  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:53 PM
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Bumped into another car in a parking lot. College student in parent's car far from home. His parents wanted a police report, understandable. LE showed up, did investigation and issued me a ticket.
Florida issues tickets for fender benders on private property? Screw them, trade ID and scram.
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  #54  
Old 04-21-2013, 10:56 PM
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In my ccdw class my teacher told to us that when you show your ccdw license to an officer in a traffic stop never pull your firearm off your side even if he asks you. He said this could lead to many other problems if you put your hand on that firearm. I will always decline because I don't want to put my hand on my weapon in front of the police officer cause you never know how things will turn out.
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  #55  
Old 04-22-2013, 12:38 AM
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I'm all for anything that keeps the officer safe and happy. They have a tough job.

And therefore, why tell him I have a gun? It's CONCEALED. He isn't going to see it. It seems the only time they are going to get excited is when you tell them you have a gun. Then they ask where it is, keep your hands away, give me the weapon, step out of the car, I have to run this number, etc. etc. etc.

If I am asked to get out of my vehicle then I will inform the officer I have a weapon and what would you like me to do with it?

I want the least amount of excitement I can get. If the officer doesn't know I have a weapon he isn't going to worry about it.
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  #56  
Old 04-22-2013, 06:48 AM
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If I am asked to get out of my vehicle then I will inform the officer I have a weapon and what would you like me to do with it?
I agree. Even in a "shall inform" state, I'm waiting to inform until and only if the officer asks me to step out of the vehicle (or if the officer asks if there are any weapons in the car)

I have the utmost respect for law enforcement officers, but my privacy and safety is my top priority when pulled over. I want them to go home safely, as well as me.
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  #57  
Old 04-22-2013, 09:23 PM
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Driving down town this morning on my way to the range, a traffic light turned yellow as i was just about under it. I went on through it and a state trooper lit me up. When i handed him my D.L. & Reg, i also handed him my cc permit. He asked if i had my firearm on me and i told him yes, its on my hip. He then asked if i would lay it on the passenger seat?? wth. I had kept my hands on the steering wheel the whole time. Then he asked if his partner could open the door and get my firearm. I guess i should have said no. His partner then took my gun, and they both went back to their cruzer for about ten min. Came back, gave me a warning ticket and the other trooper opened the pass. door and just threw my gun back on the seat. wth???? I need to read some more on WV. carry laws.
Other than "throwing" your gun onto the passenger seat what's the issue? It took 10 minutes of your time and you were cut loose with a warning. Yes, I agree throwing the gun is a bit rude, not to mention poor gun handling.

A traffic stop is a lawful detention and a LEO has the authority to secure any weapons for the duration of the encounter. The Trooper was being polite by asking instead of telling.

On a personal note, I tend to leave guns were they are on stops depending on the circumstances. However, I know many officers that will run the serial number of all guns they encounter through NCIC to confirm its not stolen.


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  #58  
Old 04-22-2013, 10:39 PM
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But officer the light was yellow,

Quote from Elwood durring a traffic stop
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  #59  
Old 04-23-2013, 05:53 AM
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I was recently stopped for a headlight out, local police officer. I pulled over, rolled my window down, kept my hands on the steering wheel. Texas is a must inform state and I was under the impression that it would be an offense if I failed to inform. So immediately as he arrive at my window I said to him, "Officer I am required to inform you that I have a concealed handgun license and I am carrying." In fact I was carrying two. He said to me your headlight is out and some other conversation, but did not issue me a warning and did not ask me to present the chl, nor the license nor to look at my handguns. I have my billfold in my right front pocket so I did not want to reach for anything till he asked me to.
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  #60  
Old 04-23-2013, 06:27 PM
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A traffic stop is a lawful detention and a LEO has the authority to secure any weapons for the duration of the encounter. The Trooper was being polite by asking instead of telling.

Does TX law state that legally-carried guns can be seized? If not, under what authority can you seize a legally-carried gun on a traffic stop without any reasonable suspicion to believe the carrier is dangerous? I only ask because in my state, the statute does not say anything about the police being allowed to seize a legally-carried gun on a traffic stop that has nothing to do with the guy being dangerous.

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I'm all for anything that keeps the officer safe and happy. They have a tough job.

And therefore, why tell him I have a gun? It's CONCEALED. He isn't going to see it.
It's not for the officers' safety, it's for yours. Some legal gun carriers forget they're carrying a gun and then reach for their wallet right where their gun is. The law requiring you to announce is so that the police officer doesn't have to do a bunch more paperwork on a simple traffic stop after he drills you when he thought you were going for a gun.

Last edited by MaximumLawman; 04-23-2013 at 06:29 PM.
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  #61  
Old 04-23-2013, 10:30 PM
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The Trooper was being polite by asking instead of telling.

"I don't know what you teach these fellows, but they're not just regular cops, okay...? They're supercops, and the only thing missing on these guys are capes."
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  #62  
Old 04-23-2013, 10:53 PM
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Does TX law state that legally-carried guns can be seized? If not, under what authority can you seize a legally-carried gun on a traffic stop without any reasonable suspicion to believe the carrier is dangerous? I only ask because in my state, the statute does not say anything about the police being allowed to seize a legally-carried gun on a traffic stop that has nothing to do with the guy being dangerous.
I do not know, sir. The incident in the OP happened in WV and I can only speak for law and procedure here in WV. I, however, don't think you'll find such a statement in any state statute. The weapon would be secured under the guise of officer safety.

Remember, you know you're a good guy, but the officer making the traffic stop doesn't. A valid CCW isn't an automatic "good guy card" either. I've arrested more than a few people for crimes they committed while carrying on a valid CCW.

He above is not to say that I do or agree with taking every legally carried weapon on a traffic stop. Just trying to offer a little insight.





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  #63  
Old 04-23-2013, 11:54 PM
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As a reserve officer for a local police department, I do not have nearly the experience of the other LEO's on this forum -- but I do have plenty of experience regarding civilians carrying weapons both in the US and overseas -- I simply use caution and presence of mind -- it has worked well.

In Louisiana, carrying loaded weapons in vehicles is legal (anywhere, under the seat, console, glove box, side door pocket, between the seat and console, etc) and I and every other LEO I know of (state, parish, city) approaches a vehicle expecting that a gun may be present in the vehicle -- my patrol partner and I remain alert for the open presence of a weapon, and if they try to access a console or glove box (for example to find their registrtion or proof of insurance), we may ask if they have a gun in the area they are trying to access -- we have never had a problem. Unless we have PC, there is no reason to ask to examine a weapon or run a serial number.
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  #64  
Old 04-24-2013, 01:00 PM
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When asked to put it on the passenger seat you should have declined for his safety and yours. When asked if his partner could open your car door and retrieve the gun you again, should have declined.
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  #65  
Old 04-24-2013, 06:59 PM
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I do not know, sir. The incident in the OP happened in WV and I can only speak for law and procedure here in WV. I, however, don't think you'll find such a statement in any state statute. The weapon would be secured under the guise of officer safety.
There are state statutes in some states that grant officers the authority to temporarily seize legally-carried guns during routine police encounters with CPL holders, ie. encounters where the police have no reasonable belief that the subject is dangerous. In the absence of such a statute, or case law, I can't see any reason to seize the gun. There is no "officer safety exception" to the search warrant rule or 4th amendment. I see cops do constitutionally questionable things all the time "for officer safety". Unless you have a reason to believe someone is armed AND dangerous, you can't start disarming someone "for officer safety". Nor can you handcuff them "for your safety and mine" without a valid reason. Taking a gun away from someone is a seizure. To seize something you need more than "the guise of officer safety".

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  #66  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:19 PM
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It is my belief that an officer can take control of a firearm for his safety.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:33 PM
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It is my belief that an officer can take control of a firearm for his safety.
In the absence of a state statute or case law that says you can seize the gun without any reason other than the fact that the guy you stop for running the stop sign is carrying with just as much legality as you are, it must also stand to reason that you can pat down everyone you stop for traffic "for officer safety". Because the guy who is going to shoot you isn't going to tell you he has a CPL permit, is armed and then hand the gun over to you "for officer safety". So if you can take a legal gun from a legal carrier for your safety, how come you can't just search everyone you stop for your safety, since the guy who wants to do you harm isn't going to tell you he's armed? The reason is: The 4th amendment. Cops get away with doing a lot of stuff that they technically aren't "allowed" to do, based on "officer safety". That is, until it's gets challenged and new law is made, for or against.
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Old 04-24-2013, 10:26 PM
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It is my belief that an officer can take control of a firearm for his safety.
I tend to disagree. The way I see it, it violates the fourth and second Amendments both. In the Indianapolis area, some people refuse to pull over for unmarked cars without getting a second unit sent out. There are some people out there who are criminals and manage to convince people they're police officers to get the upper-hand. I want an equal right to defend myself from everyone.
I'm all for officer's safety, that's why they get guns and vests, but not at the sacrifice of my safety.
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  #69  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MaximumLawman View Post
There are state statutes in some states that grant officers the authority to temporarily seize legally-carried guns during routine police encounters with CPL holders, ie. encounters where the police have no reasonable belief that the subject is dangerous. In the absence of such a statute, or case law, I can't see any reason to seize the gun. There is no "officer safety exception" to the search warrant rule or 4th amendment. I see cops do constitutionally questionable things all the time "for officer safety". Unless you have a reason to believe someone is armed AND dangerous, you can't start disarming someone "for officer safety". Nor can you handcuff them "for your safety and mine" without a valid reason. Taking a gun away from someone is a seizure. To seize something you need more than "the guise of officer safety".
I respect the difficulties of the job cops do, but I'm with you on this.

The earlier post about the State Trooper doing the driver a favor by asking instead of telling left a little acid in my craw. What's the harm? Civility suffered severely. We're all citizen equals -- some of us empower others of us to do a unique job, but I think the badge starts feeling like a cape on some cops, hence my use of the Beverly Hills quote.

We've come a long way from neighborhood cops in blue to legions of troopers, with thigh rigs and tinted visors, in black. Some day it's going to be important that we can tell a cop from a DHS soldier. At least I hope it will be important.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:07 AM
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We've come a long way from neighborhood cops in blue to legions of troopers, with thigh rigs and tinted visors, in black. Some day it's going to be important that we can tell a cop from a DHS soldier. At least I hope it will be important.
I'm with you there, I'm a current Crim student. For awhile I wanted to be a Fed. I wanted to arrest "real criminals". More recently, as I've been interacting with members of law enforcement at many levels, I'm starting to see the need for the local "beat" cop, and the necessity of the civil, day-to-day, "community policing". That's what I want to be now, the kind of man we were taught police were when we were little kids. Not a quasi-military authority figure, but a proper public servant.
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  #71  
Old 04-25-2013, 08:31 PM
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In Texas, when stopped you are only required to present CHL and DL if you have a weapon in your possesion.

Not armed just hand them your DL.

That the law.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:11 AM
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That's correct checking if stolen. In WV if you have a WV CCW they already know when they run you tag before they get out of the car usually, the dispatcher will tell them you have a CCW. I hear it on the scanner all the time when they pull over a WV CCW licensee. Weather you are carrying on not they don't know , they may ask, may not. WV is also a open carry state. It sometimes creates a problem telling you are carrying but if you don't and a partner or them see it could raise their eyebrows. The call is yours WV is also a not required to notify state. You are not statutorily required to inform law enforcement you are carrying a weapon in the state of West Virginia.
And if the driver is NOT the registered owner (spouse,child,parent)?
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  #73  
Old 04-26-2013, 12:56 PM
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I have been in Law Enforcement for over 25 years. Most of the people that I have stopped usually inform me that they have a CCW to carry. I would prefer that they tell me where the weapon is, but if they don't, no problem, I just become more aware of what they are doing. Here in Alabama almost everyone carries with a permit or not. If they don't have a CCCW then I do what I have to do. After working for years as one of only 2 deputies on the night shift, and your backup could be 30 minutes away no matter how fast they drive you tend to become more aware of what's going on during a traffic stop and you act accordingly .After all, my main focus is me getting home safe, not you..
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:31 PM
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I keep hearing to inform the officer if one is carrying concealed and have a CCP because. He sees the permit and he doesn't know you are a good guy. I had to have a heavy duty background check when I got my permit and have had one for every firearm I've bought. I'm just wondering if there are some states that give bad guys concealed carry permits and refuse to give them to the good guys? No wonder everyone is jumpy on this thread. Yiogo

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Old 04-26-2013, 11:15 PM
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By the time I retired (2001) CCW was not common place as it is now. On the few occasions I stopped a driver who informed me they were CCW, I asked to see their permit, and asked where the weapon was. I then asked/informed them to leave the weapon where it was, and we went about our business and everyone went home happy.

Perhaps I’m being naive but I just don’t see any reason to detain and perhaps harass someone who is in compliance with the law.
Yes, that's been PRECISELY my, and ALL of my acquantances experience in Texas. (I've been told in the CHL class that it is somehow indicated on your DL too, I'm sure it's in the computer).
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:17 PM
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In Texas, when stopped you are only required to present CHL and DL if you have a weapon in your possesion.

Not armed just hand them your DL.

That the law.
Oops, I better check on that. I thought you didn't have to show them the CHL anymore.

Thanks for that info!

EDIT: I just checked, and, YOU SIR ARE CORRECT! In Texas, the CHL holder must carry their CHL if they are carrying a concealed handgun.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:23 AM
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I keep hearing to inform the officer if one is carrying concealed and have a CCP because. He sees the permit and he doesn't know you are a good guy. I had to have a heavy duty background check when I got my permit and have had one for every firearm I've bought. I'm just wondering if there are some states that give bad guys concealed carry permits and refuse to give them to the good guys? No wonder everyone is jumpy on this thread. Yiogo
Bad guys are good guys until the first time they do something bad.... Guy in my town was shot and killed by a police officer. He was a drunk/stoned ccw permit holder waving a gun around at people.
http://www.radioiowa.com/2012/11/19/...led-by-police/
^ Law was cleared by a jury. The shooting was justified. But of course people are in a uproar because the police here are racist and murdered him on purpose for some reason.....

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Old 04-27-2013, 12:21 PM
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I keep hearing to inform the officer if one is carrying concealed and have a CCP because. He sees the permit and he doesn't know you are a good guy. I had to have a heavy duty background check when I got my permit and have had one for every firearm I've bought. I'm just wondering if there are some states that give bad guys concealed carry permits and refuse to give them to the good guys? No wonder everyone is jumpy on this thread. Yiogo
That's not realistic. People get their permits but don't know the laws because they don't care enough to read them. And just because you passed a background check then doesn't mean you have committed a crime since then.

Ever hear of people in the military that had secret or top secret security clearance and still went bad?
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:30 PM
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To each their own. Things differ in certain locales or regions. Know your local laws.

Said this before a few times. While working part time at a local gun shop, I took a poll with LEO that used our range for training. I asked if they pulled me over, would they like to know that I am legally armed? Out of approximately 20 polled all but one said yes. And almost everyone of those said that they would be suspicious as to what else you were hiding if you didn't offer that information.

As to handing over my gun? Ain't gonna happen. If an officer wants my gun he will have to get it himself. Even if he has to cuff me first. I ain't stupid enough to handle a gun in the presence of an officer so he can misinterpret my actions and shoot me. No disrespect to them at all. Just careful.
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Old 04-27-2013, 01:49 PM
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I guess I don't understand furnishing information to the officer that is not required by law and is not relevant to the traffic stop.

The officer stopped you for a traffic offense......this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you have a carry permit.

My opening that can of worms you just created more problems. If you are asked to get out of the car.........then you mention that you have a permit and that you are armed!
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:29 PM
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I guess I don't understand furnishing information to the officer that is not required by law and is not relevant to the traffic stop.

The officer stopped you for a traffic offense......this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you have a carry permit.

My opening that can of worms you just created more problems. If you are asked to get out of the car.........then you mention that you have a permit and that you are armed!
I agree... and disagree. No harm no foul if they don't discover a weapon on you. On the other hand if they are watching your hands as your reaching for your wallet and your cover garment moves and exposes your gun... Now you could have problems. Including a bullet wound. Each situation would be different I suppose depending on how you carry.

On my drive to and from work I have a gun tucked into the front of my waistband in a pocket holster. I really dont want a cop walking up to my window and notice the gun there while Im rummaging around for my information and be shot because it looks like Im reaching for a gun.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:47 PM
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Good point that one could have committed a crime after obtaining the permit BUT bet the permit would been taken away. Good point that one could commit a crime afterward. All I'm saying is if one believes that disarming is justified that's fine. It's just so trite and tiresome hearing, "the officer doesn't know you are a good guy." When we mean the officer doesn't care whether you are or not. That's ok too. Yiogo
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:27 PM
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I guess I don't understand furnishing information to the officer that is not required by law and is not relevant to the traffic stop.

The officer stopped you for a traffic offense......this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you have a carry permit.

My opening that can of worms you just created more problems. If you are asked to get out of the car.........then you mention that you have a permit and that you are armed!
If you open a can of worms then you must have something to hide. I don't understand the selfishness around here at times. Put yourself in the cops shoes. He just wants to go home to his family unharmed. If informing him that I am LEGALLY armed puts him just a little at ease then the stop will go much better.

For the record I've been pulled over twice in the last 30 years. One for speeding and the other a burned out tail light. Both times I informed the officer that I was legally armed. Both times they were so appreciative that they let me go with a warning.

Edited to add: If you're asked to get out of the car, your problems are worse than a simple traffic stop. And waiting until then to inform him that you are armed is foolish.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Yiogo View Post
Good point that one could have committed a crime after obtaining the permit BUT bet the permit would been taken away. Good point that one could commit a crime afterward. All I'm saying is if one believes that disarming is justified that's fine. It's just so trite and tiresome hearing, "the officer doesn't know you are a good guy." When we mean the officer doesn't care whether you are or not. That's ok too. Yiogo
You made a good point too. I just think of these poor guys that are just trying to do a job. And some of them don't have any backup or it's 20-30 minutes away. If I can help him feel a little at ease then it works out better for both of us. If he totally drops his guard then that's on him.

COOPERATION, THE RIGHT ATTITUDE, UNDERSTANDING, and COMMON SENSE WILL DETERMINE THE OUTCOME WHEN STOPPED!
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Old 04-30-2013, 12:33 AM
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If you open a can of worms then you must have something to hide. I don't understand the selfishness around here at times. Put yourself in the cops shoes. He just wants to go home to his family unharmed. If informing him that I am LEGALLY armed puts him just a little at ease then the stop will go much better.
Once again..."shall inform" has nothing to do with officer safety. Cops aren't shot by CPL holders who don't intend to shoot them. "Shall inform" is for the safety of the CP carrier! So they're not justifiably shot when a CP carrier goes for his wallet and forgets he has a gun right by his back pocket. Make a move for a wallet with a gun next to it? Good way to cause a lot of extra paperwork for the cops....If you are REQUIRED to announce, it's easier for the lowest common denominators to avoid get shot by the police.

Informing or not informing doesn't put me any more at ease. Number one, I assume everyone is armed. Number two, I don't assume a CPL holder is any less dangerous than anyone else I assume may be carrying. We have plenty of issues with CPL holders. It is not a "good guy" card. I don't determine if anyone gets a ticket based on whether they have a CPL card...Police or military ID maybe, but not a CPL card.

Last edited by MaximumLawman; 04-30-2013 at 12:35 AM.
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