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Old 07-10-2013, 09:16 AM
russp1 russp1 is offline
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Default Shot Pistol?

Bobcats are becoming a problem in my suburban neighborhood so I was thinking about one of the shot shell loaded guns out there to carry while walking the dog in place of my 442. Does anyone have any actual experience shooting either the S&W Governor or any of the small Bond Arms two shot derringers loaded with .410 shot shells? Wondering how practical and controllable they really are.
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Old 07-10-2013, 10:25 AM
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CCI makes shot shells in .38 Special. You could load the first 1 or 2 chambers of your 442 with these for use against predatory animals like dogs or bobcats. You might want to experiment to see what the effective distances are and how much spread you are getting.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:35 PM
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I've never been impressed with shot shells and I tried them on numerous snakes (I'm a slow learner). I can tell you they just aggravate an already upset water moccasin even from close up. I sure wouldn't use them against anything that can run faster than me.
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Old 07-10-2013, 01:50 PM
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Handgun caliber shotshells are next to worthless at anything other than very close range. The governor loaded with SD .410 shells would be adequate for a bobcat at a reasonable distance, but bear in mind that any bobcat that approaches that close is likely to be rabies infected and may not react as expected. I would carry more than a 2-shot derringer.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:04 PM
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I don't get the fascination with these 410 handguns.

They are huge.

They can't possibly be relied on to hit anything at more than arms length , and with projectiles that lose effectiveness so rapidly that even if you hit something, you get little effective penetration.

The advertisers talk about shooting 45lc ammo in them, but then all you have is a giant pistol. ( it has to be huge to accommodate 2.5 or 3" 410 shells)

These things are, in my opinion, a wonderful product of an advertising genius but not a serious candidate for any SD application.
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Old 07-10-2013, 03:23 PM
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Bobcats are very shy, and the odds of you seeing one that is not desperate from hunger or illness are really small. If they are that desperate, you have a real problem. In addition, shotshells from anything other than a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun are not going to do the trick.

The 442 is potentially adequate for bobcats with a decent load that penetrates adequately - if you have an incident you are likely to be making a contact shot, and SWC in the chest, followed by more until it stops, will do fine.
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobster Picnic View Post
CCI makes shot shells in .38 Special. You could load the first 1 or 2 chambers of your 442 with these for use against predatory animals like dogs or bobcats. You might want to experiment to see what the effective distances are and how much spread you are getting.
Looked at CCI's website and they don't recommend the .38 shot shells for Airweights like the 442. Something about the capsule jamming the gun.
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:44 PM
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Bobcats are very shy, and the odds of you seeing one that is not desperate from hunger or illness are really small. If they are that desperate, you have a real problem. In addition, shotshells from anything other than a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun are not going to do the trick.

The 442 is potentially adequate for bobcats with a decent load that penetrates adequately - if you have an incident you are likely to be making a contact shot, and SWC in the chest, followed by more until it stops, will do fine.
I had a medium size one tear up a screen on my house the other night trying to get to my cat that was sitting on the window ledge. Don't think it realized there was a window in the way. By time I got outside the house, my barking beagle had scared it off. The ones in the area seem to be coming in from area creek bottoms; I guess the drought here in Texas is cutting down their food supply.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:52 PM
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Your beagle is lucky that the bobcat did not go for him. I suspect a bobcat can take a beagle pretty easily.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:00 AM
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I know a little about derringers since I own 4 in .45ACP or LC chamberings, plus several in smaller calibers. You're not hitting a bobcat with one. They're not intended for that. They're designed to take down an armed attacker at 5-6 feet distance with your life on the line. They are not target pistols. Trigger pulls are heavy and the sights provide only vague general accuracy. The superposed barrels also add to this accuracy problem by throwing bullets as much as 12-18" off. Thus, the 5-6 foot distance.

I'm sure I'll get an argument about this, but I'm right.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:44 AM
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Bobcats are thin skinned rather fragile creatures as game animals or varmints go. Any .38 special is adequate to the task. Stay away from shotshells. I've got one as a neighbor I see a couple times a year.
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Old 07-11-2013, 09:21 AM
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Bobcats are thin skinned rather fragile creatures as game animals or varmints go. Any .38 special is adequate to the task. Stay away from shotshells. I've got one as a neighbor I see a couple times a year.
Thin skinned, yes. Fragile? I'm not so sure about that. I have shot a couple of bobcats and neither one appeared to be fragile. Very strong critters, very big paws for body size with impressive claws, and a mouthful of very sharp teeth.

Bobcats will typically be about 30 to 35 lbs in weight and stand about 12" or so at the shoulder. However, I have personally seen bobcats considerably larger than that. (attached photo shows a mature bobcat of about 40 lbs or so that was about 16" tall at the shoulder, sitting under a clump of pinon pines relying on his camouflage while I stood about 50 feet away and took 10 photos).

A bobcat's usual prey might include rabbits, ground squirrels, and birds. But they have also been known to take down deer.

Bobcats are usually very elusive. About the only thing you are likely to see is a fast moving critter headed for the nearest cover. They will go into populated areas when necessary to catch the next meal, and that meal could easily be any domestic pet or farm animal.

I would not want to rely on birdshot loads in handgun calibers (small quantities of very small shot) if I had to defend myself against an aggressive bobcat. A .22LR would be adequate with good shot placement, and a .38 or .45 would be preferable for an aggressive bobcat (or any other aggressive critter on four legs or two).
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobster Picnic View Post
CCI makes shot shells in .38 Special. You could load the first 1 or 2 chambers of your 442 with these for use against predatory animals like dogs or bobcats. You might want to experiment to see what the effective distances are and how much spread you are getting.
Don't use CCI shotshells in a .38/.357 on dogs or bobcats. If your life is in danger or you are in danger of physical harm from one, you owe it to yourself and to the animal to use an adequately powerful cartridge that will quickly and humanely put down the animal. Shotshells from standard handguns are adequate only for snakes and maybe small rats.

My brother has a 3 inch barrel Taurus Judge Ultra-Lite chambered for the 2½ inch .410/45 Colt. On road trips he carries it cross draw loaded with 2 0000 buck .410 shells and 3 Winchester Silvertip .45 Colt rounds. Woods walking, he carries it with 2 #6 shot .410 shells for critters and 3 .45 Silvertips. It is not his primary carry gun.

The S&W Governor has the advantage of being able to shoot .410/.45 ACP with moonclips/.45 Colt and is essentially a long-cylindered 325 for less money than a NightGuard. I just don't see the need.

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Old 07-11-2013, 11:43 AM
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Looked at CCI's website and they don't recommend the .38 shot shells for Airweights like the 442. Something about the capsule jamming the gun.
I have not been able to shoot more than two CCI .38 shotshells from my Taurus 85SSUL or my S&W Model 37 before they tied up with the next shot capsule sticking out of the cylinder. CCI is absolutely right. They work fairly well from a Model 10 or 13, but I won't use them. If a snake is close enough to shoot, it's close enough to hit with a bullet.

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Old 07-11-2013, 03:42 PM
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Sounds like I'll just stick with my 442 on the dog walks. This bobcat is the first critter of the season I've heard of in the neighborhood. Last year we had a month with quite a few bobcats and coyotes for some reason. I was carrying my 686 then.
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Old 07-11-2013, 04:49 PM
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Well I can't say about Bobcats , but I can speak about handgun sjotshells and rats. ( I didn't wish to put bullet holes thru my barn.)

"Close range" really means close. As in single digit feet. Rats have been known to suck up a hit from a .22Mag shotshell , and run off at full speed. CCI .45 Colt shot shells will put down rats reasonably well from within a 10' x 12' stall, but that 's the outside limit. For anything larger than a grain feed rat , I would use a real bullet.
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
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Thin skinned, yes. Fragile? I'm not so sure about that. I have shot a couple of bobcats and neither one appeared to be fragile. Very strong critters, very big paws for body size with impressive claws, and a mouthful of very sharp teeth.
My reference was their ability to absorb damage. A .38 is fine for bobcats, and a .357 neatly dispatches mountain lions when used correctly. I've got both types of critters in my neck of the woods. Bears are tougher.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:00 AM
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Thanks to all who corrected my (bad) advice about the shot shells. I had not seen the warning about using them in lightweight revolvers.
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