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Old 11-01-2013, 09:30 PM
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Default Had a Situation Tonight-Why I Carry Concealed!

Both my wife and I had a full schedule this evening so Take out was for supper. I stopped at the local McDonalds to get the 3 yr old daughter a happy meal. As i was backing out of the spot i saw a car behind me in the drive thru line. I kept backing up, but turning and at no time was near hitting the other vehicle. As I stopped and started to pull forward so i could re-angle to pull out, the horn blared and I stopped thinking maybe another car had crept up in my blind spot. Nope, the male passenger got out of the other car and came up to my window yelling at me and throwing expletives out every other word. I admit after about his 3rd of 4th sentence, i let a few expletives go myself. i only rolled my window down an inch or so. even though he asked me nicely(heavy sarcasm on that one), i did not get out of my vehicle and was really wishing i had not left my cell phone at home. I eventually told him to get back in his car which he did after calling me a cat a few more times.

The Local PD is directly across the street. I did go across and make a report of the incident, but i could not get the license plate number without putting myself in danger.

I had My 40c in my pocket and my hand on it. I wanted to draw, but he was in a position to see it so i left it concealed. i had decided if he tried to come through the window, i would draw.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:33 PM
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Good call.

I'm sure it was nerve wracking.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:37 PM
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it was. I'm pretty non-confrontational. This was the closest i have ever been to being in a fight.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:38 PM
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Good on you for not getting out of the car. You went home safe and sound with your daughter, with just a bit of self esteem bruised. I'd say that event turned out marvelously; you were blessed this evening as something very bad may otherwise have happened. You did well!
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:51 PM
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That's the ironic thing about carrying a firearm and preparing your mindset to use it if necessary; you must also be prepared to do everything possible to avoid confrontation. You did very well.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:56 PM
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luckily the kids weren't in the car...they were with the wife...

thanks, i like to think i handled it well...other than my end of the verbal exchange...
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:09 PM
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Did well indeed!
You kept your head, and the other guy was trying to start something and despite the verbal exchange there was no cause to draw your weapon.
You also covered your "6" by making a report FIRST! Smart thinking!
Dale
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:50 PM
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Good thing he didn't try and get into your car...he would have gotten an unhappy meal.
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Old 11-02-2013, 12:04 AM
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Hey Speedyquad,
I Haven't seen a post from you in awhile. I thought about looking you up while I was in Pittsburgh for the Pirates and Steelers in September, but I didn't have a lot of time.
Anyway, any confrontation you walk away from is a good thing. Just a word of caution on the verbal exchange...when you are armed, try to refrain from saying anything that can be construed as escalation of the incident.
Glad you made it home safe. GO PENS.

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Old 11-02-2013, 01:03 AM
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You did really good.

If it makes you feel better, I think that guy will probably keep acting like that until some big ol' boy gets out of his car and shows him what a good old fashoned *** whoopin' is all about.

Karma.

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Old 11-02-2013, 01:09 AM
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Odds are,a guy that out of control probably won't live very long.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:26 AM
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Ya done good. Pride bruises easily, but heals quickly too. I'm always amazed by these guys who want to play Billy Bad-A*s. These days, anyone can have a firearm and might not have your self-control. Kinda hard to impress you girlfriend or your buddies when you're bleeding out in Mickey D's parking lot.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:59 AM
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Another example of how quick and random things can happen. And is why I don't subscribe to the practice of only carrying sometimes...
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:33 AM
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Here's a second vote for avoiding firing back verbally with obscenities. I'm glad it worked the way it did and you went home safe without having to draw your gun, but it could have escalated badly. Somebody that full of rage could have decided that since you answered in kind it was a matter of stupid macho pride for him to come through your window. And maybe get shot.

Still, all's well that ends well.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:41 AM
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Just had a road rage incident around here , two 20s females exchanged words at the entrance to a gated apt. complex . One girl pulled out a gun and shot the other . Dead . The dead girl was by all accts a sweet thing , going to college , working part time . The shooter has a record of violence .
Watch yourself .


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Old 11-02-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sw1834 View Post
Hey Speedyquad,
I Haven't seen a post from you in awhile. I thought about looking you up while I was in Pittsburgh for the Pirates and Steelers in September, but I didn't have a lot of time.
Anyway, any confrontation you walk away from is a good thing. Just a word of caution on the verbal exchange...when you are armed, try to refrain from saying anything that can be construed as escalation of the incident.
Glad you made it home safe. GO PENS.

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i've been around...work has me busy...
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:03 AM
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Good job on avoiding a more serious confrontation. I recently took a defensive handgun course from a friend who was a 16 year Marine veteran firearm instructor with two tours of Iraq. In his words, "The best gun fight is the one you avoid and never have."
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyquad View Post
I admit after about his 3rd of 4th sentence, i let a few expletives go myself. i only rolled my window down an inch or so. even though he asked me nicely(heavy sarcasm on that one), i did not get out of my vehicle and was really wishing i had not left my cell phone at home.
.
When you allow someone to draw you into an expletive contest then your situation as the victim degenerates somewhat with the LEO investigators. It will always turn into a discussion as to whether or not you egged the perp on. You did fine other than that and I would never roll my window down period. As a retired and disabled LEO myself, I wouldn't roll my window down because I don't want to give someone a free shot. If they try to reach in through an open window, then I have to feel like I am being carjacked and take appropriate action.
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Old 11-02-2013, 03:55 PM
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It's all been said, you did well not allowing the jerk to escalate things further. As to the language used it would be wise, in the future, to avoid profanity or "fighting words." Each community defines fighting words differently, but you're in a better position (IMHO) if you can safely say you did absolutely nothing to engage the person. Especially if things go to guns.
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Old 11-02-2013, 04:36 PM
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It's a good play to keep the window up. I was involved in a confrontation with an angry young man after his baby mama slammed into my vehicle. He said all kinds of eloquent things including polysyllabic racial epithets which I found comically ironic coming from him. He never crossed the line and got to meet my 1911, but he came close, a window away to be exact. I deescalated the situation by refusing to play into the swearing match and remaining calm. I filed charges against him and he spent the next six months in jail due to my hectic work schedule and a few trial continuances requested on my behalf as I had been subpoenaed to testify against him. I think that was an infinitely more satisfying of an outcome.
Long story short the judge told this guy in open court that if he'd have broken that window I would have been fully justified in killing him and that he was still alive due to the restraint of reasonable people.
Looks like you did just fine...no shooting, a little BS and you likely got home in time to have a hot happy meal being a smile to a little girl's face. Win win.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:41 PM
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You did good. It takes two to dance and you declined even with the music playing.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:48 PM
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Congrats for swallowing your pride. There's a lot of ways you could have reacted. You did good.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:51 PM
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Well Done!
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:02 AM
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One thing in the OP concerns me. The phrase about " I had my 40C in my pocket......." Hopefully that 40C was in a pocket holster, protecting the trigger from accidental contact and possible unintended discharge.

Early this year a local guy had his Glock in his coat pocket and got shot in the femoral artery and bled to death in front of his family. Now, the M&P trigger isn't that of a Glock, but you MUST have the piece in a holster that protects the trigger. In his case, the seat belt
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:58 AM
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Job well done. It can be hard to walk away and not beat the living poo out of a dumb a.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:01 AM
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I see a few posts that mention your pride or ego being bruised....

I disagree.

You showed the buffoon how a real man is supposed to act (even though he doesn't realize it). Bravo to you.

I had a run-in with one a while back:
It takes a bigger man to walk away...
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:24 AM
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Good Morning:
You did well.
I had a similar "Incident" years ago, but at a traffic light. For this reason I stopped "Pocket Carry" (difficult to draw sitting with seat belt on).
While traveling/driving Its "Cross Draw".
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
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One thing in the OP concerns me. The phrase about " I had my 40C in my pocket......." Hopefully that 40C was in a pocket holster, protecting the trigger from accidental contact and possible unintended discharge.

Early this year a local guy had his Glock in his coat pocket and got shot in the femoral artery and bled to death in front of his family. Now, the M&P trigger isn't that of a Glock, but you MUST have the piece in a holster that protects the trigger. In his case, the seat belt
it is in a pocket holster...

conveniently, there is a mesh pocket on my center console right by my knee...now when i get in, the gun comes out of my pocket, holster included and put in that pocket. it sits at the perfect angle for a quick draw. it can easily be put back in the pocket before i exit the vehicle. this is my normal procedure anyway. but that was my last stop and i was on my way home...

once the weather gets a little colder and i start carrying with my owb holster, it will be easy enough to transfer from one to the next also.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:02 AM
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A few years ago, a lawyer friend asked me to use my DSLR to take some good pictures of some people protesting a facility in the building where his office was. Most of them weren't a problem, but a small faction decided that it was going to INTENTIONALLY block the view of the street from the hidden driveway (they almost caused me to get hit), harass EVERYBODY who went into the building, hold up large, gory posters (which they used to block the view of traffic) and video people's children when they complained. They'd been warned repeatedly, and had actually told a co-worker that they didn't CARE if they caused a FATAL traffic accident.

I sat in front of an adjacent building, taking pictures of them creating a traffic hazard.

One of them came over and started verbally abusing me. I just ignored him, while remaining prepared to 1. retreat into the building, 2. draw and defend myself if attacked. My refusal to engage with him just made him angrier. When I refused to take the bait, he gave up and walked away.

A few minutes later, an easily 350lb., foul mouthed Jabba the Hut clone took his place and began loudly and obscenely attempting to provoke me into a physical altercation which he clearly planned to video. I simply ignored him which sent him into a literally incandescent rage. He got no reaction, or even recognition from me. He finally walked away seething because I wasn't as stupid as he'd hoped.

My friend then called a meeting with the protesters concerning the hazard to traffic which some of them were creating. The majority were perfectly willing to stand back from the street to avoid creating any danger. The troublemakers doubled down on stupid, whereupon the majority told them that they didn't want anything to do with them anymore and didn't want them standing with them.

As an aside regarding Jabba the Hut, my friend asked him if he thought it was smart to try to pick a fistfight with a guy wearing an NRA instructor's cap and reading a book on machine guns. Moby Dick instantly turned into a scared, deathly white whale when it dawned on him that he'd been poking a tiger in the butt with a barbeque fork.

Of course BOTH rants attempting to incite a street fight were recorded in full. I have them to this day.

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Old 11-03-2013, 10:24 AM
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people just don't think...this guy had no idea i was carrying. i have said to my wife on a few occasions..."do they no know that people are allowed to carry guns in PA?" or a tongue in cheek "do they not know i could shoot them?" as a way of saying even if i were the biggest billy bad-@** in the world, i would still not try to incite any kind of anger because that other person may have a gun and be faster and better with it than i am...
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:42 AM
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As an aside regarding Jabba the Hut, my friend asked him if he thought it was smart to try to pick a fistfight with a guy wearing an NRA instructor's cap and reading a book on machine guns. Moby Dick instantly turned into a scared, deathly white whale when it dawned on him that he'd been poking a tiger in the butt with a barbeque fork.
That is HILARIOUS!
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:42 AM
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people just don't think...this guy had no idea i was carrying.
Some people are just full of threats... if they think you can't fight back successfully.
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:52 AM
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That is HILARIOUS!
Stupid is as stupid does, and he was near 400lb.s of weapons grade stupid.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:06 PM
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Stupid is as stupid does, and he was near 400lb.s of weapons grade stupid.
"Weapons grade stupid"--nice!

With your permission I'll use that one. I know LOTS of possible applications.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:02 PM
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It's easy to find a fight. It takes a real man to know when to walk away....
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:40 PM
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it was. I'm pretty non-confrontational. This was the closest i have ever been to being in a fight.
This post made me scratch my head a little. I'd say if this is the closest you've come to a fight you are indeed very non-confrontational. I couldn't count the number of fights I was in on both hands before I was out of elementary school. I am glad you didn't draw the gun. In a one on one verbal confrontation (unless he was 6'5" and 240 lbs and you're 5'8" and 160 or your 75 YO and he's 24) it's no place for a weapon. You need disparity of force to justify escalation to deadly force. That means more than one potential attacker, a weapon introduced, or an actual physical confrontation in which you reasonably fear for your life.

I've drawn a gun twice in my life, both times involved multiple assailants and ended (fortunately) without a shot being fired. If you fear conflict with a single hot head, you need training or tools for non-lethal resolution of such conflicts. I'd recommend martial arts or other combatives training or perhaps pepper spray or a kubaton or both. You don't want to get slapped or punched and end up in prison long term because you didn't punch back and chose to draw a gun to resolve a mano-e-mano confrontation.

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Old 11-09-2013, 08:48 PM
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i'm 5'3" 160...pretty darn close and he was over 6 ft probably 200ish, but it was hard to tell from inside...i'm 40 and have have a few high speed 4 wheeler rolls that, even though i laughed them off when younger, i feel them now 20 years later

there is no doubt he, in his 20's, could have whomped on me if given the chance...

the gun is carried to protect myself from ANY threat, single or multiple.

seems like i didn't draw...
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  #38  
Old 11-09-2013, 10:47 PM
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In a one on one verbal confrontation (unless he was 6'5" and 240 lbs and you're 5'8" and 160 or your 75 YO and he's 24) it's no place for a weapon. You need disparity of force to justify escalation to deadly force. That means more than one potential attacker, a weapon introduced, or an actual physical confrontation in which you reasonably fear for your life...If you fear conflict with a single hot head, you need training or tools for non-lethal resolution of such conflicts. I'd recommend martial arts or other combatives training or perhaps pepper spray or a kubaton or both.
I don't fear conflict much because I don't knowingly provoke it. On the other hand, I'm 76, I've probably shrunk in height to around 5'7", I have bad lungs and knees and arthritic hands, and I couldn't run if my life literally depended on it.

Avoidance of trouble is the key, and I pray I never have to draw my gun in self defense. But if push comes to thug it may have to become an option sooner than it would for you who are able to apply "martial arts or other combatives training".
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:05 PM
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You and your family all get to live another day.

You did the right thing.
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  #40  
Old 11-09-2013, 11:11 PM
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I stand corrected....twice. I get both your points. I just don't want anyone to have the life George Zimmerman is stuck with if they can avoid it. Had it not been for a broken nose and bloody head along with a witness come forward to testify on his behalf, he'd likely be behind bars right now and he didn't fire until it actually was life threatening.

I think its a great idea to avoid if possible, then try to de-escalate situations before words become actions, We all have a very high degree of responsibility once we make the decision to carry lethal force. I was a guys who fought my way through much of my early life. I owe it to a good woman (my bride for over 30 years) for being a positive influence on me and then the responsibility of father hood that changed my 10 feet tall and bulletproof lifestyle. Even then I had a bit of a hair trigger on my temper until I started carrying. That added duty of knowing the consequences of any conflict has kept me largely out of any trouble for the past three decades or so. I have gone to my vehicle and put the gun away a time or two when some jackass was out of line and I felt conflict was coming and it was beyond my ability to just leave and let it go. I still make stupid decisions sometimes but I always weigh the options and consequences before I act or react now. That's progress I suppose.
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  #41  
Old 11-10-2013, 12:25 AM
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We can't let the george zimmerman debacle prevent us from protecting ourselves. when we decide to carry for protection, we are accepting that, should the unfortunate circumstance ever arise that we need to use lethal force, there may be legal repercussions. what we can do is learn from his mistakes, and try not to make the similar ones while going home, safely, to our families.

i will not draw until i am sure that i absolutely need to fire.
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:52 AM
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I stand corrected....twice. I get both your points. I just don't want anyone to have the life George Zimmerman is stuck with if they can avoid it. Had it not been for a broken nose and bloody head along with a witness come forward to testify on his behalf, he'd likely be behind bars right now and he didn't fire until it actually was life threatening.
I NEVER leave the house armed without having some sort of audio recorder going. That recording would have been priceless if Jabba the Hut had tried to attack me physically. As it was, it was conclusive proof that he was trying to instigate a fight.

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Old 11-10-2013, 09:53 AM
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"Weapons grade stupid"--nice!

With your permission I'll use that one. I know LOTS of possible applications.
Have at it.
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  #44  
Old 11-10-2013, 12:54 PM
Der Biermeister Der Biermeister is offline
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I NEVER leave the house armed without having some sort of audio recorder going. That recording would have been priceless if Jabba the Hut had tried to attack me physically. As it was, it was conclusive proof that he was trying to instigate a fight.
This is an interesting tactic. I have a relatively new, small Olympus recorder that I've been trying to come up with varied uses for instead of the once or twice a year thing.

Thanks for the idea.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:45 PM
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The law varies from state to state regarding the legality of audio recording for legal purposes. Some states require both parties to consent to recording in order for recorded information to be admissible as evidence. Others only one.
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  #46  
Old 11-10-2013, 03:31 PM
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The law varies from state to state regarding the legality of audio recording for legal purposes. Some states require both parties to consent to recording in order for recorded information to be admissible as evidence. Others only one.
Know applicable law, both for carrying a firearm and for recording.

Ohio is a one party consent state for recording. As long as you're a party, you need no one else's consent, nor do you need to give notice.
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:45 PM
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B... Nope, the male passenger got out of the other car and came up to my window yelling at me and throwing expletives out every other word. I admit after about his 3rd of 4th sentence, i let a few expletives go myself. i only rolled my window down an inch or so. even though he asked me nicely(heavy sarcasm on that one), i did not get out of my vehicle and was really wishing i had not left my cell phone at home. I eventually told him to get back in his car which he did after calling me a cat a few more times.

...
Whenever you throw the cuss words back you're escalating the situation. Huge mistake.

Nothing happened here, but I can't say you did well by swearing. Your tossing back the swear words could have been the excuse for this guy to go over the edge. Yes, it would be his fault for being stupid, but there's no reason to give him the rope to hang himself.

If stuff like this happens to me, my plan is simple: "Hey, I'm really sorry, man. My bad."

Bad move opening the window, too. Even in inch. Guy gets enraged, gets a grip and pops the window out. Yeah, he'll probably get cut, but he's after you.

I'm not a pushover, but a jerk's opinion of me is of no consequence. If he leaves thinking I'm a kitty-cat, that's fine by me.

Pride doesn't taste good when you swallow it. But it still tastes a lot better than bills from your criminal defense attorney.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:58 PM
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SQ - glad you are OK... Sounds like the thug was in a hurry to get to wait at the drive thru line, has no patience,,,,, and just looking for an excuse to be mad at someone. Unfortunately that someone was you.

While I was not there in your situation, I can only imagine your BP was up.

There are LOTS of angry people out there that want to 'spread their joy'. Guys & Gals - don't buy into their misery.
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