cliffs:
XDS in .45 ACP sold after getting it back from the recall (serious trigger issues)

carried the custom Colt CCO for two months - 8 rounds of .45 ACP

One of my firearm mentors explained that shot placement trumps caliber. (And I've been a .45 ACP guy.)

Now I am carrying an ugly, sunrise-dependable Gen3, Glock 19.

16 rounds of Barnes all-copper 9mm.

25 cent trigger job = smooth, 5 lb trigger

finis

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Professional Trainer

The service calibers (to include .38 Special) have more in common ballistically than not...

Shot placement is King, penetration is Queen, expansion is...you get the idea.

Congrats on finding a set-up that works for you. Practice, improve and enjoy.

Thanks, that is the plan.

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Professional Trainer

Yes, welcome to the dark side, where pragmatism is more important than romanticism.

I carry a Glock 23, same size gun but in .40, better barrier penetration than a 9mm and more available ammo.

agree

I chose 9mm because I'm swimming in ammo and have several other 9's and no .40's.

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Professional Trainer

I love 45's and 1911's especially but you can do much worse as a carry all the time bet your life on it pistol then a Glock 19. Yes they are ugly and plastic has no soul, but they will do the job if you do.

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Plastic has no soul

Great choice of carry gun. Curious to why you chose Barnes ammo? I thought maybe you lived in Calif., but I saw...not.

Years ago I admired the Barnes family and began to use their products.

Then CorBon started using them commercially.

All the research I've found shows them to be excellent SD rounds.

I've actually shot and recovered them myself, and the expansion was perfect.

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Professional Trainer

I carry what I can get into play fast, and hit quickly and accurately with multiple shots (and the brand/model the department requires ). My duty weapons are Glock 22 and 27 in .40 S&W, and Glock 21 in .45 ACP. I carried a 1911 for ages, and would carry one today. Also carried a S&W revolver, and would carry one today. Your training will carry the day.

+1. You will perform to the level of your training. I know things can go sideways pretty much anywhere these days, but I purposely avoid places where the odds of a situation increase. To that end, I carry what's comfortable but still effective. Usually an M&P Shield or Compact 9. That said, being an old guy, I've got a soft spot for revolvers. My Model 36 J frame is in the rotation too.

I'm a little confused by your revelation. You say that you've learned the value of shot placement and yet that drove you to higher capacity. It makes no sense.

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Freedom isn't free.

shouldn't have posted cliff notes, sorry

What he explained to me is that in actual self defense shootings there is very little difference in the results from 9mm, 40 S&W, and .45 ACP unless a shot is placed very accurately in a "shut down" area.

Therefore, I decided to carry a 9mm instead of a .45 ACP, and, in doing so, am able to increase ammo capacity without compromising weight and concealability.

In other words, if I can shoot both the Glock 9 and the CCO .45 with about equal accuracy, and a modern, task-specific 9mm HP performs well, I'd rather carry 16 rounds of 9mm instead of just 8 .45 ACP.

I'm also factoring in the limited skills I'd bring to a real-life gunfight, even though there will be just as much practice, if not more, with the Glock than the CCO.

Of course, I should shoot super accurately in a gunfight, but odds are I probably won't.

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Professional Trainer

I see. That makes more sense to me.

One more question though, is that higher capacity causing you to not carry an extra mag?

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Freedom isn't free.

excellent question

I carry my extra mag in an inexpensive cell phone case.




And I carry an extra mag as much for a possible malfunction as for the extra ammo.

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Professional Trainer

As I posted elsewhere, I recently swallowed hard and sprung for a Gen 4 Glock 19. Contrary to my experiences with a G17 about 15 years ago, I can call and place my shots with this one even with the stock sights. The smaller grip fits me better, the rough texture is nice, and the finger grooves even fit! The trigger seems improved, and the double recoil spring seems to dampen recoil noticeably.

For years my CCW was either a 4" .357/125 or a 442. But the world keeps getting crazier and the 442 was limited in capacity and very slow out of the pocket holster. So far the 19 seems stone reliable with everything. If that continues I will stay with it.

Ugly and utilitarian as it is, it's probably better suited to the times. I still like the steel and wood classics, but for a "go to war" gun this is probably a better choice.

Time to go wash my mouth out now.

This is certainly the right answer. The extra mag is more important for malfunctions than extra ammo because most gun fights last no more than 3 rounds. Also, I would carry it in something more easy to draw from, but nothing wrong with what you have.

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Freedom isn't free.

Wait now. There is very little difference in performance unless you hit your target in a vital area? Missing doesn't count? And what is the "performance difference"? Better or worse?

Sadly, i too sometimes carry a GLOCK. When I ride my ATV. If I loose it, I won't cry like a little girl like I would if it was one of my .45's or .44's.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

Jim Cirillo had some interesting opinions and first-hand experiences re: caliber choices for carry and actual defensive shooting. Worth a look if you have not already done so.

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I'm with the banned ...

It makes perfect sense. As much as I like a big 45 acp, shot placement trumps caliber. If you put the rounds in the rights spot caliber does not matter as much as we think. With that said, whats better 8 rounds or 15?

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Plastic has no soul

I usually carry large caliber weapons as well, powerful stuff, .357 mag, .45 acp. .44 mag, .357sig etc. But lately i've been going smaller.

9mm in my 6906, .40 in my sig, even carry a jennings .22 in my boot some days.

Why?

The price of ammo is rediculous!.

I found 50 rounds of wwb .357sig FMJ for $49.99!.......really!? and 20 rounds of Speer golddot 125g HPJ for $40!.

I then found I can buy 20 rounds of GD HPJ 9mm for $24, and only $3 more for .40 cal. and 100rnds of wwb .40 for $40, and $22 for 9mm!.

Thus my large caliber days are dwindling, at least until the price drops again. Or my pay goes up :/

I try not to get too caught up in the "which gun and which round one ought to have" argument. There's a bit more to the equation than the "hardware" when it comes down to the encounter. Its as much about "what's between the ears" as it is about your gear that will determine the winner, and the loser.

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FBINA, 204th Session

I'm with Post #21.

There's more than a little truth to the old saying that experienced professionals discuss training & tactics while others want to talk gear (guns, calibers, ammo, etc).

Nail the mindset & skillset emphasis, and then go ahead and relax while discussing personal equipment preferences.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

first time to shoot it

ran 4 to 6 shot strings, very rapid fire just pointing (not aiming) at 10 yds

with practice this is gonna work just fine

Got the Dillon fired up after feasting today.

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Professional Trainer

Doc, what about all those sweet little d-frame Agents & Cobras you've posted photos of on the Colt forum? I saved quite a few of those on my computer. Did you peddle them off or keep them for BBQ duty?

Attached Images

	bobbed Colt Agent 2.jpg (82.8 KB, 29 views)
	bobbed Colt Agent 3.jpg (91.4 KB, 30 views)
	bobbed Colt Cobra 2.jpg (81.2 KB, 38 views)

sold 'em all

The pretty Cobra with the custom, Badger grips on the far right went to a female school teacher.

Gave me a warm, fuzzy feeling when she said she'd carry it.

I'm not rich enough to keep a safe full of pretty guns. Only have one looker. The rest are either carry guns or match shooters.

the Lone Looker

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Professional Trainer

That is one gorgeous Glock.

OHHHH, that left a mark!!

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Professional Trainer

Couldn't help myself.

Interesting Thread. When I retired in '97 my dept. issued Gen II Glock 23 retired w/me & I tried to carry it. Too heavy and bulky for my old back and hip problems. Stayed w/my tried and true light weight J frame, several different models, but the bottom line is it's always w/me. I practice w/it monthly, know its limitations and go about minding my own business.

The tiny polymer .380s & .32s just are not reliable enough for my comfort level.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I went to the big oudoors store today and handled a SIG 938. What a sweet little 9mm. Sort of a scaled down modified 1911 pattern but without the grip safety. Only 19 ounces empty and with only a two-finger sized butt, so it might be challenging to shoot well. A bit spendy at $720 but it is nice. Might have to splurge one of these days & get one.

simple

and I can shoot it

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Professional Trainer

I hear ya....have a brand new Gen 3 G23 that was just issued to me...much smoother then the old one I turned in...must be the new springs...I have J frames and my old favorite M10 4" I carry on occasion, but the Glocks are far more practical and replaceable especially if one is taken into evidence...