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  #51  
Old 02-11-2014, 11:20 AM
jaykwish jaykwish is offline
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Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
When drinking at home store your guns at the neighbor's house.
Drink that demon rum and you may grab that gun out of the nightstand and kill the whole family.

Caffeine makes me jittery I probably should lock my gun up when I drink it just so I don't have an accident. Whatever your opinion is about this it's your opinion, some people can't drink just one drink, others can have a small glass of wine and that's it. Some people shouldn't have guns around them when they drink, others are perfectly safe and I think it totally ok for those those individuals who are responsible and can limit their intake of alcohol while carrying. For anyone to say 100% that anyone who has a drink while carrying is a moron or an idiot or irresponsible, is willingly being ignorant to the idea that not everyone who drinks gets hammered or has their judgment impaired in such a way that they will irresponsibly use their handgun.


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  #52  
Old 04-13-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 1911mosin View Post
I personally don't think anyone should drink alcohol and be carrying a weapon (concealed or not) The same goes for taking even one drink and driving an automobile. IMO
It is fine to impose rules like this on yourself.

I have the self control to have a beer or glass of wine with my dinner and carry.

It makes me worry if you are suggesting I should be sent to jail for doing this.
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  #53  
Old 04-13-2014, 03:03 PM
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It is fine to impose rules like this on yourself.

I have the self control to have a beer or glass of wine with my dinner and carry.

It makes me worry if you are suggesting I should be sent to jail for doing this.
Wisconsin Law may be suggesting exactly that. Whether you can carry a firearm and consume even one glass of wine or a single beer is subjective and at the sole discretion of the jury. Note that in this context, the term "impaired" is not defined by a prescribed level of blood alcohol as it would be for driving impaired. Per Wisconsin law:

Wisc. Stat. 941.237

"However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. Wis. Stat. § 941.20(1)(b). “Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖ WI Jury Instruction-CRIMINAL 1321."

I'd be worried about the "Less able to exercise clear judgement" part - especially if the jury of my peers were anti's or were particularly enamored of a zealous prosecutor.
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  #54  
Old 04-13-2014, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post
Wisconsin Law may be suggesting exactly that. Whether you can carry a firearm and consume even one glass of wine or a single beer is subjective and at the sole discretion of the jury. Note that in this context, the term "impaired" is not defined by a prescribed level of blood alcohol as it would be for driving impaired. Per Wisconsin law:

Wisc. Stat. 941.237

"However, it is a class A misdemeanor (punishable by 9 months jail and/or $10,000 fine) for anyone to go armed with a firearm while under the influence of an intoxicant. Wis. Stat. § 941.20(1)(b). “Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount of alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm.‖ WI Jury Instruction-CRIMINAL 1321."

I'd be worried about the "Less able to exercise clear judgement" part - especially if the jury of my peers were anti's or were particularly enamored of a zealous prosecutor.
Right! Exactly. I think it's insane. It is also against the law to consume drinks at an establishment while carrying. An absolutely nutty law. Sending people to jail for this kind of "offense" is ridiculous--I expect it from the anti gunners--but I get worried when I see the attitude among gun owners and carriers.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:45 PM
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The real problem I see with the Wisconsin law is that it's ridiculously vague. We have a measurable standard for being too impaired drive legally: 0.08 in most states. Why not apply this to carrying a firearm?

Of course this doesn't take into account that some people may exhibit lessened judgment below that level, and some may appear unimpaired above it, but at least it's a standard.

As one who carries anytime I'm out of my apartment and has for years, I don't want to be around someone with a gun who is intoxicated enough for a DUI charge to stick, any more than I want to have to deal with a drunk driver on the highway. Call me a sentimental old fool, but I value the safety of my elderly butt.
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  #56  
Old 04-13-2014, 09:29 PM
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I won't touch alcohol if I am going to carry or if I am going to the range.

About 45 years ago I figured I could not control what others do but that does not mean I have to do it with them.

Yiogo
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  #57  
Old 04-13-2014, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Waywatcher View Post
Right! Exactly. I think it's insane. It is also against the law to consume drinks at an establishment while carrying. An absolutely nutty law. Sending people to jail for this kind of "offense" is ridiculous--I expect it from the anti gunners--but I get worried when I see the attitude among gun owners and carriers.
Whether I am in agreement with it or not, I am more concerned with following the law than what I think others attitudes may be. You do what you will, as for me I do not drink and carry.

I must endeavor to remember that I am "A man with a gun..." and the headline could very well begin that way. I would like to have control over how that sentence ends as much as is humanly possible. "A man with a gun, smelling of alcohol.." is not a story line I care to read.
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  #58  
Old 04-13-2014, 11:13 PM
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I've snooped in on this thread periodically.

I'll start by saying I hate arbitrary restrictions on my actions BUT I support penalties for people that "exercise their rights" to the detriment of others. The classic yelling of "fire" in a crowded venue when there is none comes to mind.

That then leads to the definitions of standards for measuring the "boundaries" of when your rights infringe on mine.

As is often the case, well intentioned people define criteria that really do not accomplished the stated goals. For instance, numerous studies have been cited about alcohol reducing reaction times, this thing, and/or that thing BUT do not take into account any baseline. Person A might begin with a baseline reaction time significantly less than Person B but the test designed is BAC, not reaction time.

I'm an engineer by training and would rather see the actual criteria defined and measured. Score the person from the baseline of minimal reaction time or other scientifically defined criteria, not BAC or other generalized criteria. Correlation does not imply causation!!!!!!

That said, I acknowledge there are things like judgement that are subjective. This is why we have juries. We've placed too much "junk science" into laws and have built up an infrastructure to support that junk science. Even things that seem to address what I've outlined can be false flags. How many of us can recite the alphabet backwards with or without being impaired? How many suffer from anxiety when confronted by LEO? It's well known that such anxiety can impair a person all by itself. I for one have very bad knees and standing on one foot is difficult.

I guess this was a long way to go to say that we attempt to measure things that generally hold true but can be flawed for many. Worse, we often avoid measurement of things for politically correct reasons. Trust me, I know people I don't want to see driving or packing stone cold sober. Their cognitive functions and physical abilities challenge a turtle. I'd rather they didn't vote but I know that's wrong (a right versus a want)!!!!!!

So where did this take me???? I detest things like checkpoints, clear 5th amendment violations for taking blood, and laws that give people the leverage to abuse their positions. I detest people that sue because "do do occurs". I expect people to put their rights second to violating those of others. However, we'll never legislate our way to this end.

If someone crosses the line, they should be held accountable for that and then move on.

I want to be as safe as the next person but every time we ask "lawmakers" to define criteria, we enable another "well intentioned" person with a weapon to take a little more freedom.

Use your head and hopefully common sense will still be within the guidelines of the law. HOWEVER, you best read and understand that first.

Sorry for the rant!!!!!
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  #59  
Old 04-14-2014, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yiogo View Post
I won't touch alcohol if I am going to carry or if I am going to the range.

About 45 years ago I figured I could not control what others do but that does not mean I have to do it with them.

Yiogo
Thank you, Sir, for not wanting to take away my rights. Some others on this thread, including this fellow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911mosin View Post
I personally don't think anyone should drink alcohol and be carrying a weapon (concealed or not) The same goes for taking even one drink and driving an automobile. IMO
would like to do that.

You are a gentleman IMO.

Ken
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  #60  
Old 04-14-2014, 09:13 AM
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Thank you, CowboyKen. Yiogo
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  #61  
Old 04-14-2014, 09:25 AM
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It is apparent that some people think disagreeing with someone else's stance is tantamount to wanting to take something from them.

"I don't think anyone should...", or "I think everyone should..." is sharing an opinion and nothing more.

"I think everyone should" ... lighten up a little.

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Old 04-14-2014, 10:10 AM
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It's also been proven that some people BEGIN asymptotically close to 0 in that category

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Its been proven that just one drink impairs your judgement.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:20 AM
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Aaand Smokindog sends Blujax scurrying for his Funk & Wagnalls...
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:25 AM
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...approaching a given value or condition, as a variable or an expression containing a variable approaches a limit, usually infinity...

Got it!
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  #65  
Old 04-14-2014, 10:46 AM
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Yup, as I mentioned, let's measure the actual criteria rather than the loosely associated symptoms.

BTW - This is a pocket calculator circa 1976!

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Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post


...approaching a given value or condition, as a variable or an expression containing a variable approaches a limit, usually infinity...

Got it!
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File Type: jpg 1976 pocket calculator.jpg (36.1 KB, 21 views)
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  #66  
Old 04-14-2014, 12:46 PM
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This topic depends entirely on state law.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:36 PM
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Default OP still wrong!!!!

What I fail to understand is why the OP has not corrected his initial post which clearly misrepresented the law in his state.

Please see post #39 if you don't believe me.

Be safe.
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  #68  
Old 04-14-2014, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blujax01 View Post
Whether I am in agreement with it or not, I am more concerned with following the law than what I think others attitudes may be. You do what you will, as for me I do not drink and carry.

I must endeavor to remember that I am "A man with a gun..." and the headline could very well begin that way. I would like to have control over how that sentence ends as much as is humanly possible. "A man with a gun, smelling of alcohol.." is not a story line I care to read.
This could go back and forth forever.I really like my beer.When we go anywhere that I am going to be partaking of my favorite beverage the gun stays home in the safe and the car keys go to the wife.Like bluejax I don't want to be that "Man with a gun smelling like alcohol".I think it was Mas Ayoob who wrote some years ago that a CCW holder is held to a higher standard.Especially if he needs to use his weapon.Face it that's gonna get ugly no matter what.Use it with alcohol in your system and the ugly just got uglier.No intent to aggravate anyone just my 2 cents.We all need to think about these things.For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
What I fail to understand is why the OP has not corrected his initial post which clearly misrepresented the law in his state.

Please see post #39 if you don't believe me.

Be safe.
Sorry I haven't posted again recently on this subject, but in the case I was referring to, (I can give a few more details since it has been adjudicated), A traffic stop was made for a minor traffic offense, the driver AND the passenger were both found to be under the influence of alcohol (above .08) AND marijuana (tested positive). The passenger had a CCW and had his loaded gun in the center console, readily accessible to either party. The driver was convicted of OVI/Weapons under disability and the passenger was convicted of WUD.

Even though they BOTH had minor criminal histories, that had no bearing on the current case, it was the fact that they had possession of a loaded weapon while they were under the influence of alcohol/drugs of abuse that led to the guilty verdict by the jury.

I wasn't trying to start a ****Storm when I originally posted, just trying to give a heads up for those who live in a state with zero tolerance for (alcohol) when carrying.
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:54 AM
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Default Hmmmmmmm...

That's inconsistent with the information from the Ohio prosecutor as posted in #39...and actually reads like a take away from that scenario.

Can you provide the case citation, please?

Be safe.

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Sorry I haven't posted again recently on this subject, but in the case I was referring to, (I can give a few more details since it has been adjudicated), A traffic stop was made for a minor traffic offense, the driver AND the passenger were both found to be under the influence of alcohol (above .08) AND marijuana (tested positive). The passenger had a CCW and had his loaded gun in the center console, readily accessible to either party. The driver was convicted of OVI/Weapons under disability and the passenger was convicted of WUD.

Even though they BOTH had minor criminal histories, that had no bearing on the current case, it was the fact that they had possession of a loaded weapon while they were under the influence of alcohol/drugs of abuse that led to the guilty verdict by the jury.

I wasn't trying to start a ****Storm when I originally posted, just trying to give a heads up for those who live in a state with zero tolerance for (alcohol) when carrying.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:38 AM
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I'm betting on incompetent public defender + career petty criminal, low lifes = one off jury verdict.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by The Big D View Post
That's inconsistent with the information from the Ohio prosecutor as posted in #39...and actually reads like a take away from that scenario.

Can you provide the case citation, please?

Be safe.
It wasn't my case & I'm just going on what was told to me by the arresting officers
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:13 PM
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Attachment 150475 Gunpowder and alcohol don't mix...
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Old 04-21-2014, 06:38 PM
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Attachment 150475 Gunpowder and alcohol don't mix...
Sounds good, but what is this supposed to mean? Really?

Ken
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Old 04-22-2014, 04:32 PM
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Sounds good, but what is this supposed to mean? Really?

Ken
I take it at face value. If you pour gunpowder into a glass of alcohol, the two don't mix.
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