Not Welcome in MD

[redlevel]

This is really a pretty disturbing article. On another board, someone tried to blame the wife, very unfairly, I thought. I don't know what my wife would do under the same circumstances. She knows I usually have a gun. Like this guy, if I had to travel through a state where my gun isn't welcome, I would leave it at home. Would my wife realize that under the stress of an officer bluntly questioning her?

I visit Savannah a few times a year usually. I will not cross into South Carolina because my gun isn't welcome there.

I wasn't exactly clear on how the MD officers determined the man had a license. I am guessing that maybe the ccw is linked to the DL number, and it showed up when they ran his license?

And isn't Maryland such a wonderful progressive state?

Jackson: Gun owner unarmed, unwelcome in Maryland

[aaorb104]

Why is your gun not welcomed in SC?

[forrestinmathews]

Blame the agency and hold the officer personally accountable for violating this man's rights. This was clearly an illegal search and attempted seizure, without any probable cause, performed by an idiot who should clearly be stripped of any and all authority, unless this kind of tyranny and fear is what the great state of Maryland wants to impart on all who pass through her borders. Say what you will, but people like that need to be removed from positions of authority, for the safety of the public. What if this genius had shot the motorist during his warrior cop tyranny stop? Or done some other physical harm? We the people should not live in fear of the government. Quite the contrary.

[redlevel]

Originally Posted by aaorb104

Why is your gun not welcomed in SC?

SC doesn't recognize GA's Weapons License. To legally travel with a handgun in SC, I believe I would have to unload the firearm and separate it from its ammunition. SC is the only state bordering GA that doesn't reciprocate with us.

[shouldazagged]

That stinks on ice, and definitely constitutes unlawful search and seizure to my non-legally-trained eye. The officer in question should be severely disciplined and a formal apology issued by his agency.

There's a lesson here for gun owners with families, however. Coach them not to give unnecessary information, especially when the questions are part of a grilling that shouldn't be taking place. Tell them not to lie, but to volunteer nothing.

[Skeetr57]

In reply to Red Level: No concealed weapon permit is required in SC to carry a loaded handgun in the unlocked glove box or console of a vehicle.

[redlevel]

Originally Posted by Skeetr57

In reply to Red Level: No concealed weapon permit is required in SC to carry a loaded handgun in the unlocked glove box or console of a vehicle.

I knew there were some changes in 2012. Was that one of the regulations rescinded?

SC still does not reciprocate with GA on ccw. I believe the reason is that GA does not require a proficiency class for qualifying for a permit, just the background check.

[Bozz10mm]

Wonder what the officer's probable cause for the stop was. He ended up writing a warning to the motorist. What was that for.

[LoboGunLeather]

Detained for 90 minutes on the side of the road, subjected to pat-down searches, automobile emptied out and searched, all without probable cause or warrant? I call this an illegal arrest and unreasonable search, clear violations of this family's Constitutional rights.

Time to fire up the legal machine, let those bozos spend a few years marching back and forth to depositions and court hearings while they learn just how difficult it can be to get a mortgage or car loan while your credit report shows a pending multi-million dollar federal civil rights lawsuit. Then it will be the time to take their pension funds and file garnishments on their paychecks for the rest of their lives.

Examples need to be made.

[Ransom]

Originally Posted by Bozz10mm

Wonder what the officer's probable cause for the stop was. He ended up writing a warning to the motorist. What was that for.

In the article comments the author said the warning was for speeding. He meant to include that detail but it got left out unintentionally.

[Hock]

Originally Posted by Bozz10mm

Wonder what the officer's probable cause for the stop was. He ended up writing a warning to the motorist. What was that for.

In the comments section from the original news source the author realized he forgot to state the reason for the stop and subsequent warning. It was for speeding.....

[bluegrassarms]

Sounds like the officer was on a drug mule fishing expedition. Saw FL plates and followed the car, I'm betting ran the plates while he was trailing it, got nothing but decided to do the stop anyway.

Then he runs the license again fishing, finds the ccw and figures maybe he has it with him and can get busted for that. The big question being why he is so desperate to bust the guy when he's established he's not a criminal and is just on a trip in a nation where you supposedly don't need "papers" to travel wherever you choose.

IMO his wife was stupid for saying what she did, really stupid, b/c she did hand him just what he wanted, but the officer was over the line before he even got to talking to her. The stop itself was bogus in all probability and focusing on him having a ccw as "probable cause" to suspect he illegally had a gun in the car (not just had one, but had one illegally stored in that state) was another bogus leap. It's certainly an indication he may own a gun, but going from that to stripping the car like your'e looking for heroin is unacceptable IMO. To me that's no better reason than pulling over someone b/c of their race.

It's just my swag but the out of state plates and it being an interstate stop on apparently questionable grounds makes me think he's trolling for drug mules. He trumped up an excuse to pull them over and then latched onto his ccw in violation of his rights. I really hope this guy brings action against the officer and MD, esp if this is standard practice for this department b/c I resent him being singled out for being a ccw holder and I resent this trend to pull people over with out of state plates as if that constitutes some kind of probable cause in a free nation with freedom of association and assembly.

[gdnagle]

Originally Posted by shouldazagged

That stinks on ice, and definitely constitutes unlawful search and seizure to my non-legally-trained eye. The officer in question should be severely disciplined and a formal apology issued by his agency.

There's a lesson here for gun owners with families, however. Coach them not to give unnecessary information, especially when the questions are part of a grilling that shouldn't be taking place. Tell them not to lie, but to volunteer nothing.

Won't happen that's Md. they are a very anti state, that's why I left there years ago.

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

Detained for 90 minutes on the side of the road, subjected to pat-down searches, automobile emptied out and searched, all without probable cause or warrant? I call this an illegal arrest and unreasonable search, clear violations of this family's Constitutional rights.

Time to fire up the legal machine, let those bozos spend a few years marching back and forth to depositions and court hearings while they learn just how difficult it can be to get a mortgage or car loan while your credit report shows a pending multi-million dollar federal civil rights lawsuit. Then it will be the time to take their pension funds and file garnishments on their paychecks for the rest of their lives.

Examples need to be made.

90 minuets on New Years Eve eve, I hope they didn't leave them standing in the cold. But being Md I wouldn't be surprised of anything they do. The Transportation Authority Police are the worst of the MD LEO's, they only have a few miles to patrol, tunnels and bridges, and have nothing better to do then harass people. Got my wife one time for speeding and when she tried to talk to the so called officer the female officer trainee told he to shut up and tell it in court. She did but TAP didn't show up so she got off but didn.t get to tell how unprofessional the TSA was. My advice is stay out of MD if possible, I try to but have a few miles to pass through and it's a pain, stop unload lock in different locations and hope they under stand a truck doesn't have a trunk, travel 20 miles and stop and reload. MD doesn't give any leeway so I don't take a chance. They have a attitude now as the court's found their CCW policy to be unlawful but still no change.

[pawncop]

Terrible injustice. I will not blame the wife. I will blame a heavy handed moron that appears to be enforceing his own agenda.

Having not been there I know there are two sides to any story. The officer may have had experiences that biased his actions and there may have some probable cause but common sense and good judgement did not appear to rule on this day.

[16thVACav]

Originally Posted by redlevel

I knew there were some changes in 2012. Was that one of the regulations rescinded?

To the best of my recollection, that has been the law for at least 30 years.

[Doug M.]

We all need to remember that our family members need to understand their rights, and that silence is normally the best policy and to NEVER EVER consent to a search.

The officer and agency will not learn without a significant civil judgment. Since there is no real chance that a MD prosecutor would file a criminal charge, that's the only realistic answer.

[flintsghost]

Many states have their CCW's attached to the drivers license check. In those cases the driver would come up as a person of interest. Everyone should be aware of what their own state does. However, in all the states there would have to be probable cause to stop a passenger vehicle for anything. For commercial vehicles it varies as they are subject to variety of different laws and commercial vehicles may be subject to check by LEO's at any time for a variety of reasons. The news story has many missing facts that would be helpful to know.

[jtpur]

I believe here in FL an owners DL number is on the registration. Here is what I think happened.

Copper spots car SB I95. Noticed FL plates? All Floridians are dopers and sellers.

Copper runs plates. Name comes back with DL and he runs DL. All this while tailing them. FL records indicated owner has CCW.

In the Peoples Republic of Maryland owning guns is a hangin offense.

Copper pulls over Florida guy and wife unknowingly tosses husband under car. Copper harasses family looking for gun. I mean he'll, all dopers carry guns and all motorists from Florida are dopers, oh yeah it's probably illegal to have a gun in the tunnel in Maryland after all that .380 ammo could collapse the whole freakin' tunnel.

[Hodgin]

I wouldn't blame my wife at all. Guy may have been looking for excuse to search car. Sheriff's department around here does it all the time with a special unit assigned to patrol the interstate. They look for slightest violations and causally ask to search the vehicle.

Most people just say yes thinking they'll just have to hang around for a warrant and will have the vehicle searched anyway. They find alot of drugs that way. I don't know what would happen if someone refused the search.

[Geronimo Jim]

Maryland sucks bad. I left 10 years ago out of pure distain for all their liberal policies.

[bluegrassarms]

Originally Posted by Hodgin

I don't know what would happen if someone refused the search.

If they ever stop me on my way through we'll find out b/c I'll sure refuse it.

jtpur - I also wonder if he didn't know about the CCW prior to the stop. In Ky the police know off the license search, if he was able to get from the plates to the license prior to the stop it's a very good question if that's why it happened at all, figuring there may be a contraband gun.

It's one my lawyer would ask in discovery were that me who was stopped. Just what info did the officer have prior to making the decision to stop me?

[aaorb104]

Originally Posted by redlevel

SC doesn't recognize GA's Weapons License. To legally travel with a handgun in SC, I believe I would have to unload the firearm and separate it from its ammunition. SC is the only state bordering GA that doesn't reciprocate with us.

No I was pulled over last year in SC on a routine traffic stop and was asked if I was carring any weapons, I told the officer I had a CCW from FL and my weapon was in my glove box. He told me that was fine and that i did not need a CCW to carry it in my Glove Box in SC.

[ma deuce]

We have no crime at all here in the People's Free State, and we aim to keep it that way. All you gun owners outside our borders should keep your evil guns and your evil selves out there in America and don't disturb our peace.

[islamoradamark]

thats crazy i would have reported him. checking door panels and tossing car for having FL plates guess he was board. he needs a good job like writing parking tickets

[atheophilos]

I live in PA and travel through Maryland on my way home to VA often. This very thing really concerns me.

[steamloco76]

Originally Posted by atheophilos

I live in PA and travel through Maryland on my way home to VA often. This very thing really concerns me.

I was regularly visiting friends in VA for a while, The route only had me in MD for about 16 miles and I would always see MD State Police on that short section.The last couple trips I stopped a couple miles from the border in WV, unloaded my CCW, put the ammo in the truck box and the empty, open gun in a case under the back seat. Once into VA I would re-load and re-arm. Pain for just a few miles, but it beats a felony rap.

[Old cop]

Reading through all this it appears the officer was wrong in his actions and should be sanctioned for it. I do have to object to the term Gestapo when applied to American law enforcement. If you read your history you'll see that it does not fit, we are not Nazis.

[shouldazagged]

Originally Posted by Old cop

Reading through all this it appears the officer was wrong in his actions and should be sanctioned for it. I do have to object to the term Gestapo when applied to American law enforcement. If you read your history you'll see that it does not fit, we are not Nazis.

Somehow I overlooked that characterization, which is not like me. I also object to it. The Nazi stuff gets thrown around pretty carelessly these days, and as a student of history with memories of WWII it bothers me.

[redlevel]

Originally Posted by Old cop

Reading through all this it appears the officer was wrong in his actions and should be sanctioned for it. I do have to object to the term Gestapo when applied to American law enforcement. If you read your history you'll see that it does not fit, we are not Nazis.

Originally Posted by shouldazagged

Somehow I overlooked that characterization, which is not like me. I also object to it. The Nazi stuff gets thrown around pretty carelessly these days, and as a student of history with memories of WWII it bothers me.

I used the term mostly as hyperbole. Actually, I have a Masters Degree in History. I am well aware of how the Gestapo operated. They detained people for no reason, harassed them and terrorized families by separating them and questioning them separately, and bullying people by saying things such as “You’re a liar. You’re lying to me. Your family says you have it. Where is the gun? Tell me where it is and we can resolve this right now.”

Consider my characterization amended to something like, "The Maryland Officers were guilty of using Gestapo-like tactics."

I am a retired teacher. Fifty or sixty years ago, teachers and police officers were some of the most well respected and trusted people in the community. There have been just enough bad actors in both professions to cause that to be reversed. In fact, teachers and police officers are now some of the most reviled members of society. I hate it that I can no longer really trust teachers to do right by the school-age members of my family. I also hate it that I have to advise my grown daughter to never volunteer anything more than absolutely necessary to any LEO, and never, ever to consent to a search.

[forrestinmathews]

Anyone who is trying to imprison a non threatening citizen of another state while on a peaceable journey is a Gestapo-like agent of tyranny and should himself be disarmed and stripped of any and all authority.

The message is clear the Maryland is in the business of infringement upon the rights of her subjects and all who dare to pass through. She is looking to subjugate tourists and motorists with her storm troops. Stay out if you can and if you can't, decide which way you're going to play it.

It is a sad day when corrupt government turns honest men into outlaws with unconstitutional law.

[islamoradamark]

i agree thats why i moved out of that state 35 years ago now it seems to be getting worse. i try not to go to unfriendly gun states. same reason i dont do bizz at stores that say no firearms allowed i tell everyone i know why put yourself and family at risk i can spend hundreds in this other state on vacation with my family, the same goes for stores

[kip_j]

I didn't see anywhere in the article that the Maryland LEO asked for Filippidi's CCW card, nor did Filippidi voluntarily submit it.

I was taught in CCW class (here in Michigan, at least) that if you are stopped for any reason you should surrender your CCW card as well as the other standard pieces of ID that the cops demand; license, registration, and proof of insurance, and that's regardless of whether or not you're carrying your firearm with you.

[Ransom]

Originally Posted by kip_j

I didn't see anywhere in the article that the Maryland LEO asked for Filippidi's CCW card, nor did Filippidi voluntarily submit it.

I was taught in CCW class (here in Michigan, at least) that if you are stopped for any reason you should surrender your CCW card as well as the other standard pieces of ID that the cops demand; license, registration, and proof of insurance, and that's regardless of whether or not you're carrying your firearm with you.

It is not necessary in Michigan to show your CCW permit if you are not carrying (see Handgunlaw.us). In Missouri you don't even need to inform an officer when you are carrying. I've thought this one over a lot and read pros and cons about informing and come to the conclusion it is best to say nothing more than the state laws require. To say more is to invite further scrutiny.

[Kadonny]

Originally Posted by Ransom

It is not necessary in Michigan to show your CCW permit if you are not carrying (see Handgunlaw.us). In Missouri you don't even need to inform an officer when you are carrying. I've thought this one over a lot and read pros and cons about informing and come to the conclusion it is best to say nothing more than the state laws require. To say more is to invite further scrutiny.

I think some are getting a little carried away. This was one officer in one incident from what I see.

Also, if I'm in another state and get pulled over and don't have my gun on me or in the car, I'm not showing the officer my CCW permit. Same goes for my home state, PA. If I get stopped and don't have my gun on me or in the car, I'm not showing my CCW permit either. Now if I do get stopped while I have the gun with me, you better bet I'm showing that officer my CCW permit at the same time I show him my license and registration even though I'm not required to by law.

[Ransom]

Originally Posted by Kadonny

Now if I do get stopped while I have the gun with me, you better bet I'm showing that officer my CCW permit at the same time I show him my license and registration even though I'm not required to by law.

Interesting. What made you decide to inform the officer even though you are not required to?

[Kadonny]

Originally Posted by Ransom

Interesting. What made you decide to inform the officer even though you are not required to?

Based on the round table discussion we had with various law enforcement officers at my CCW class and some informal discussions I've had with LEO freinds. The bottom line is in a state that is very gun friendly, most officers actually appreciate you showing them the CCL up front rather than finding out about it later on in the process. The more info they have up front, it allows them to make better decisions about you. If you are a law abiding citizen who has a CCL and you are carrying a gun properly, then there is no worry.

I'll choose full disclosure up front rather than something happening for whatever reason and him finding out later. The last thing I want is a gun pointed at me by him because he doesn't have enough information about me.

Just my personal opinion.

[Frizzman]

I don't know anyone in Delaware or Maryland and have no reason to cross into those states. If I have to go to the Northeast, I go to the trouble to go around. I will not contribute a cent to either state...He needed to discuss what his wife would do in such a case. The treatment was stupid but once it starts, it usually continues until the officer(s) is satisfied. I would be unhappy about that much of my resources wasted on such a traffic stop. They must have too many officers with too little to do. Were I a supervisor in that agency I would not be happy. While they were tied up on that, who knows how much actual criminal behavior was passing by?...DUMB!

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

Detained for 90 minutes on the side of the road, subjected to pat-down searches, automobile emptied out and searched, all without probable cause or warrant? I call this an illegal arrest and unreasonable search, clear violations of this family's Constitutional rights.

Time to fire up the legal machine, let those bozos spend a few years marching back and forth to depositions and court hearings while they learn just how difficult it can be to get a mortgage or car loan while your credit report shows a pending multi-million dollar federal civil rights lawsuit. Then it will be the time to take their pension funds and file garnishments on their paychecks for the rest of their lives.

Examples need to be made.

Totally agree, people need to suffer all the consequences of their illegal actions. Enough of this garbage.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by forrestinmathews

Blame the agency and hold the officer personally accountable for violating this man's rights. This was clearly an illegal search and attempted seizure, without any probable cause, performed by an idiot who should clearly be stripped of any and all authority, unless this kind of tyranny and fear is what the great state of Maryland wants to impart on all who pass through her borders. Say what you will, but people like that need to be removed from positions of authority, for the safety of the public. What if this genius had shot the motorist during his warrior cop tyranny stop? Or done some other physical harm? We the people should not live in fear of the government. Quite the contrary.

Amen^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[jtpur]

Originally Posted by bluegrassarms

If they ever stop me on my way through we'll find out b/c I'll sure refuse it.

jtpur - I also wonder if he didn't know about the CCW prior to the stop. In Ky the police know off the license search, if he was able to get from the plates to the license prior to the stop it's a very good question if that's why it happened at all, figuring there may be a contraband gun.

It's one my lawyer would ask in discovery were that me who was stopped. Just what info did the officer have prior to making the decision to stop me?

Yep I agree and that is what I tried to convey. He found out as he tailed the FL guy running his plates. He'll you can do the same with a program called auto track. Run my tag and it comes back with all data entered into public records. Even when a state blocks CCW from public records law enforcement has access to those records? I believe the driver was stopped because the Officer learned via radio that our guy had a CCW. Hence guns are illegal in MD and hence Florida guy may be packin. As I said a hangin offense.

[Grayfox]

Time to lawyer up. I see a big payday in this guy's future.