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  #101  
Old 03-23-2014, 03:24 AM
NE450No2 NE450No2 is offline
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I am retired, after 30+ years on the job. I do not go to places where I am likely to find trouble, like bars or bad parts of town, etc.
I do not start trouble.

With as much "meaness" at there is around now, I do not plan, especially at my age, to engage in "fighting".

So all of my current training, is in the area of not to be "touched".
ie. Challange before they are with in "touching" distance. Step back, if it is safe to do so... Display if necessary.
Allow them to back off... If they don't, do not allow them to "touch".

And if "touched", to disengage, immediately, and go to the gun, and get them off of me.
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  #102  
Old 03-23-2014, 10:59 AM
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I am 60, in excellent physical health, but have suffered a number of injuries over the years from working the streets and hard physical training to include hand to hand. Many of those injuries have resulted in arthritis so I am banged up a bit. I am a realist, putting my ego aside I choose to exercise vigorously on a regular basis to remain fit and healthy. I now stay away from the hand to hand stuff for fear of injury.
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  #103  
Old 03-24-2014, 04:29 PM
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Ok ,,,,, just wanted to throw something out there for thought. I too am a senior citizen and though I carry CHL I am limited on how fast my pistol can be brought up and used. So I have purchased a switchblade knife, actually several , which is now legal in our state as of last year. I carry it on my chest in a vest. I have practiced with opening it and without doubt it is half the time to open than to draw my chl carry. You might want to check your knife laws and see if you can carry one of the many new and finely made switchblades so as to equal the field. The knife is only my first quick line of defense and then the pistol if I have the time. I have practiced and the knife drawn is faster by far. Hopefully I will be backing up and trying to defuse the situation , giving me more time to draw my weapon also.

By the way ,,, I too do not go to bars or the bad parts of town , but as in my other post on use of force from personal experience , you never know when a situation can arise. Bad guys are everywhere and it is up to each one of us to learn our defense capabilities and to practice and utilize whatever we can. Just a thought for some of our seniors of which I am glad I am also one of and thankful that I have been able to protect myself with force , but not having to use deadly force . This world has gotten more deadly, not safer and us seniors are the preferred targets. Yes , I may be disabled but I am not totally defenseless. My safety is my choice, not someone elses.


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  #104  
Old 12-30-2016, 05:50 PM
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I've been a kickboxer, and a student of martial arts all my life. Firearms are just an extension of that self defence training, just like being aware of my surroundings, and being able to flee.

Oh; I am 57, I still run, lift weights, and beat on the heavy bag.

Last edited by Win94ae; 12-30-2016 at 05:53 PM.
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  #105  
Old 12-30-2016, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtLumpy View Post
- I've seen the aftermath of hundreds of hand to hand encounters. Not one of them was a "Let's trade punches like gentlemen till one of us cries uncle". It's been no holds barred, no rules, kick him in the goodies, claw his eyes out, try and kill him. ...
I agree. No gentlemanly rules for me.


Almost every thread about old movies mentions the quote from The Shootist where J.B. Books (John Wayne) said:
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."


I may have felt the same when I was younger, but now I have winnowed it down to "I won't be laid a hand on."


If someone does this, he can follow the Marquess of Queensbury Rules if he wants to, my rules will be derived from Le Marquis de Sade.
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  #106  
Old 12-30-2016, 09:22 PM
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My standard response for 30 years when somebody bucked up at me: "I'm not saying that I'm not going to the hospital, but you're definitely going . . . "
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  #107  
Old 12-30-2016, 09:35 PM
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If you're young and you want to go hand to hand with me, you'll lose. I don't have to meet you with equal force, because I fight to win.
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  #108  
Old 12-30-2016, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke View Post
Iím 48, I hold a black belt in Tae Kwon Do and I doubt very seriously I could go toe to toe with a reasonably fit twentysomething but whether or not Iím going to fight hand to hand may not be my choice, if someone jumps me Iím at least going to have to fight until I can get my gun out.

I try to keep myself fit and am currently looking into studying a soft style such as Aikido where I donít have to worry about pulling off a double back flip reverse hurricane kick.
Never fear . no matter how old you are what you learned in the martial arts even thought you think you forgot it it will come back instinctively, the bad guys are just brainless thugs . I'm 67 and trained for years. Dang, hope i'm right , if not the model 60 is close by
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  #109  
Old 12-30-2016, 11:18 PM
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Default Previously noted.

If someone insists they fight me someone will go to the hospital...someone will also go to jail. Sure hope it's not me.

That said, it will take a whole lot of bad things to happen before a 'fight' occurs.

But as noted a couple years ago in this very thread, not all confrontations have to involve a gun.

If I shot everyone who took a poke at me there would be a lot less folks walking the planet.

Be safe.
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  #110  
Old 12-31-2016, 05:05 PM
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Sometimes....no matter how hard you try.....someone wants to take advantage of "old"guys! Once I walked away!! One time I didn't walk!!I'm 73....train & carry a blade & a model 60!
Jim
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  #111  
Old 12-31-2016, 06:33 PM
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When I was a young man living at the DMZ in Korea I trained daily. Now I'm an old man. Too old for fistfights, so those inclined to start a fight with me take heed...
"NEVER pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just KILL YOU.."
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  #112  
Old 12-31-2016, 09:53 PM
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"Old dogs bite."
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  #113  
Old 01-01-2017, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiganScott View Post
I'm 62, arthritic with prosthetic hips and rods in my back. I use an aluminum cane with a strap around my wrist. If necessary, this will be used to fend off any attacker until I can access my concealed weapon, which will then be used because of the "disparity of force".

I feel situational awareness will make this unlikely. I certainly do not allow myself to get into the same situations that I did 40 years ago. Avoidance is key.
I'm 61 and in good health, but have never trained or practiced martial arts.

Having said that, the best defense is a good defense, if I may so blatently invert the phrase and have ALWAYS had excellent situational awareness and use it every time I carry. My wife, on the other hand, has ZERO awareness so I do double duty on her behalf.

I think 'situational awareness' is an instrinsic mentality as much as it is a learned one and practicing it is only beneficial if one is going to internalize it's message.
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  #114  
Old 01-02-2017, 01:42 AM
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Three-year-old thread.

Since I first posted on it, I'm now seventy-nine, on oxygen, and walk very painfully with a cane. I'm much less able to survive a hand-to-hand encounter than I was three years ago.

Defense is what the steel cane and my gun are for if it comes to that.
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  #115  
Old 01-02-2017, 04:40 AM
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You must train for hand to hand combat.
Even if you are carrying a gun, the attacker is not going to stand there
waiting for you to get your gun.
You must train to be in a state of MUSHIN (pronounced moo-sheen)
which means instantaneous reaction without thought.
Is there a "best" training? I believe as early and young as possible
one should get involved in many martial arts. Wrestling, boxing, etc.
Usually one gets some training if in the military.
But there is no training as good as experience.
Go to a college town. Preferably where there are also a lot of cowboys,
oil field workers, biker gangs, (you get the idea).
Then find the wildest nightclub you can and get a job as a bouncer.
After 3 or 4 years of getting "involved" every weekend, you will
start to reach that state of "mushin".

I was in line at a McDonalds and some guy started yapping at me,
with some threatening words, about cutting in line. He invited me
outside. I very calmly told his wife to call 911 and ask for an
ambulance, and told her he was going to need it. She grabbed him
by the arm and drug him out. (I think he was on something).
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  #116  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishinfool View Post
If you have to fight someone, fight dirty, fight to win. Standing there are trading punches with someone who is younger, faster, and has more endurance then you is a fools game.

Frankly, if I am armed, and in a situation I cant walk away from, and I think someone has a reasonable chance of jumping me and winning, I am going to draw my weapon beforehand. I am not going to risk being disarmed, and my weapon being used on me or some other innocent person.

Larry
I think Larry hits the nail on the head. I'll be 62 next month & I'm not in my prime fighting condition. I have one knee replaced, the other one needs it, a hip replaced & ditto, a heart condition & congestive heart failure. I can't run or wrestle to a draw...but I can throat punch; eye gouge; block & punch; bite...& all without any conpunction to "go easy" on the attacker. Plus, I have a .357 to even the odds.
In TN, age & health is taken into consideration as far as drawing earlier than a much younger defender might, PLUS, we have a no retreat law & a non-retalitory protection from lawsuits from attacker (if they survive) or from family...IF...you can articulate that you felt your life or well being was in iminent danger. And as the saying goes, be the first to call 911 & identify yourself & the situation. Hopefully, I'll still be alive to do that but it won't be because I didn't try.

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  #117  
Old 01-12-2017, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NE450No2 View Post
I am retired, after 30+ years on the job. I do not go to places where I am likely to find trouble, like bars or bad parts of town, etc.
I do not start trouble.

With as much "meaness" at there is around now, I do not plan, especially at my age, to engage in "fighting".

So all of my current training, is in the area of not to be "touched".
ie. Challange before they are with in "touching" distance. Step back, if it is safe to do so... Display if necessary.
Allow them to back off... If they don't, do not allow them to "touch".

And if "touched", to disengage, immediately, and go to the gun, and get them off of me.
Forced retirement for me after 16 years of not working due to a severe back injury .. to look at me you would not know anything was wrong .. but I can't do any type of fighting or even running away is out of the question ..

So I have become super observant of my surroundings any time I am out of my home safe zone .. and with that my wife has also .. we are a team in everything we do ..

For instance if I am pumping gas she is watching the area 360 degrees .. if anyone starts to approach our 25 foot safe zone she alerts me even if I am looking that direction .. nothing is taken for granted .. one of our phones is always set to video camera mode .. activating it gets us a movie and sound of anything that we would need to record .. without fumbling around for a minute trying to set it up to record ..

Be observant and stay safe !!

So far its worked for us ..
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  #118  
Old 01-12-2017, 07:59 PM
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At 67 years of age,I only train my trigger finger, to the trigger of a firearm.My God have mercy on your soul.
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  #119  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitwabit View Post
Forced retirement for me after 16 years of not working due to a severe back injury .. to look at me you would not know anything was wrong .. but I can't do any type of fighting or even running away is out of the question ..

So I have become super observant of my surroundings any time I am out of my home safe zone .. and with that my wife has also .. we are a team in everything we do ..

For instance if I am pumping gas she is watching the area 360 degrees .. if anyone starts to approach our 25 foot safe zone she alerts me even if I am looking that direction .. nothing is taken for granted .. one of our phones is always set to video camera mode .. activating it gets us a movie and sound of anything that we would need to record .. without fumbling around for a minute trying to set it up to record ..

Be observant and stay safe !!

So far its worked for us ..
I could not live my life in that condition . . .
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  #120  
Old 01-12-2017, 08:25 PM
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I took around 14 or 16 years of martial arts training. Two different schools; lots of parallels. Kung fu, jiu jitsu, hopkido (sp?), & similar. The older I got the harder it became to do all of the complex exercises and I tore my rotator cuff some years back doing combat rolls. So I no longer train for hand to hand combat. If it comes to that what will be will be but I'm very careful about my personal space because my preference is to have room to draw my weapon.

Then, again, I practice the color code rules of safety adopted by Col. Jeff Cooper so I'm mostly pretty much aware of who is near me and what they appear to be doing.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:03 PM
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Default Indeed.

Spot on.

Be safe.


Quote:
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I could not live my life in that condition . . .
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  #122  
Old 01-12-2017, 11:19 PM
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Closing in on seventy, brawling is not on the dance card. If I haven't prevailed in the first 30 seconds, things are likely going badly for the home team.
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Old 01-12-2017, 11:38 PM
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...kick 'em in the left knee...kick 'em in the right knee...kick 'em in the wee knee...then run like hell...
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
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I took around 14 or 16 years of martial arts training. Two different schools; lots of parallels. Kung fu, jiu jitsu, hopkido (sp?), & similar. The older I got the harder it became to do all of the complex exercises and I tore my rotator cuff some years back doing combat rolls. So I no longer train for hand to hand combat. If it comes to that what will be will be but I'm very careful about my personal space because my preference is to have room to draw my weapon.

Then, again, I practice the color code rules of safety adopted by Col. Jeff Cooper so I'm mostly pretty much aware of who is near me and what they appear to be doing.
I know exactly what you mean. Started Krav Maga last year, and while its a strictly combat system (no forms, tournaments, etc...) the level of endurance required is "taxing" on us older guys. When I was young we often *intentionally* drew fights out because we considered them practice. Endurance was not an issue. Now, if I were to find myself in a fight, my goal would be to hurt them quickly and get it over with, because I don't have the desire (or stamina) for a long, drawn out fight.
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:32 AM
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I'm 72, only 5'7' and 150 pounds. I trained in hard style Karate for about five years and learned some important things:

1. In hand to hand combat, I will never beat some guy who grew up fighting for lunch money every day on the street.
2. Situational awareness is more important fighting skills. A fight avoided is a fight won. Run away if I can.
3. Don't go to stupid places and do stupid things with stupid people.
4. If all else fails, shoot to stop the threat.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:46 PM
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Some of the best advice I ever got about a fight is, "If you ever give some *** your best shot, don't hang round to see how it turns out!"

I also carry a good stout cane because I am old enough to do so without it looking like a weapon. A few basic blocks and counters are all I can do well. I mean to hurt them enough to get away.
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  #127  
Old 01-13-2017, 05:49 PM
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Old 01-13-2017, 07:45 PM
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The problem with these martial arts guys is that ya gots to shoot em before they get the idea to leave ya alone.

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Old 01-13-2017, 08:07 PM
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I'm 67, with bad hips and knees.

I lose in hand to hand combat.

Not so much if I use a handgun.

No, I don't train in hand to hand combat.

My time is better spent training with my handgun.

May be tough on the attacker.

That's OK.

He started the fight, I just want to end it.

With me OK.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:16 AM
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Honestly, my biggest fears are aggressive dogs, and getting sued for shooting someone in self-defense. Even if I am in the right, legal fees scare me. I know, it's better than being 6 feet under,but I've worked hard to amass my retirement savings. I don't like to be f'd with, but I'm a 'last resort' type of guy. Please don't tread on me!

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Old 09-26-2017, 10:31 AM
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Was once told that using a bayonette when you have rounds in the magazine is not a good trade off. Why get in really close to stick 'm when you can stand off and shoot?

If a physical confrontation is the issue - walk away. If that is not working - OC spray and run like hell.

If all else fails, young healthy guys beating on an old infirm guy, disparity of force issue - lethal force must now be considered.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:31 AM
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I carry a hardwood cane, that I can use like a baton. First I will break the person's clavicle, that will most likely end it. If not I have other weapons I can use besides my firearm.
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Old 09-26-2017, 10:51 AM
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I carry a hardwood cane, that I can use like a baton. First I will break the person's clavicle, that will most likely end it. If not I have other weapons I can use besides my firearm.
I have an Irish blackthorne stick I used to religiously carry but have gotten away from on the walks with the dog up and down the mountain to the mailbox on the main road and back.

No humans have felt it's bite but a few unruly and unsupervised dogs have learned not to approach with menace on their mind.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:11 AM
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It may be comforting for the elderly and disabled to think they can just rely on situational awareness and their gun, but that isn't always reality. You may have no choice but to utilize unarmed self-defense skills(even if just to access your weapon) whether you train in them or not. Probably even more so since the ability to flee is comparatively limited, mental awareness and acuity decline over time and quickness of movement and reflexes slow with age. Plus violent predators often prey on what they view as weak and easy targets. There will often be very little warning when they launch their assault so as to catch the victim off guard. Keep in mind I'm referencing violent crimes not ego driven street brawls. I'm not advocating the disabled or elderly undertake some type of extensive H2H or martial arts training, but I think it wise to study and gain familiarity with the issue to understand how best to minimize risk and mitigate limitations.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:04 PM
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That's why I carry a gun, at 68 I'm too darn old to be going hand to hand and running is out of the question .
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gaucho1 View Post
All I can say..........if it's going to go......start with the finish

Avoid if AT ALL possible............very dangerous
I have a steel plate and screws holding my neck together, both shoulders have injuries, my ribs suffered a flail chest with multiple rib fix.. list goes on.

If I have to react strongly to avoid, I will.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:45 PM
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Looks like I am the really old guy on the block. I am 75 and gratefully in good health except for both rotator cuffs being damaged and arthritis of the hands.

I do not train in H2H fighting I just practice six essential moves that would be best used in a close quarter fight like a mugging or knife attack. The moves work well against an arm driven attack with a knife, club, or fist/hand. While I once was trained to do much more, I selected simple to do basics for a physical encounter.

A few months back I wrote them out in a post I made to this forum. I will see if I. An find it and link to it.
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Old 09-26-2017, 02:59 PM
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At my age (72) and state of health. Breathing problems, bad leg, heart problems, take Cumindin, I will not get into a hands on situation. Someone might try to go hands on with me but that does not mean I have to.

It was decades ago I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and knew how to fight. Things are much different for me now!
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:12 PM
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I took a dozen years of martial arts training. My body cannot stand that any longer but if I have to get physical I am prepared for it.
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:16 PM
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I do, with younguns and olduns. We have a local force on force group.

But as I find myself getting older and approaching the big 50, and the years of dirtbike riding and other sports are taking their toll on the old joints.... pepper spray or other less than lethal means to complement my five banger is starting to look better and better.
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Old 09-26-2017, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TexasArmed View Post
I am 67 myself. The only kind of physical fight I will have at this age will
be a gunfight. As for an assailant being unarmed, we do not have to suffer knockouts,
be mugged, be attacked by young thugs, before we draw, in order to use deadly force
in Texas. I won't start a confrontation but if I cannot retreat for one or avoid it. Many
folks have been beaten to death by young thugs who are unarmed. I do not intend to
be a victim just because a thug is unarmed, and I am old. I had such training in the Marine Corps
but at my age, I will rely upon my handguns, and avoid places where I am compelled to go unarmed.
^^^ This. I'm 75 yo and have a heart condition. I never leave the house without a pistol and a spare mag. The only requirement in TX is that we are in fear of our life. I avoid "iffy" places and situations, but if someone (or several someones) decide the old white-haired guy is gonna be an easy victim, I'll draw and fire without hesitation.
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Old 09-26-2017, 04:29 PM
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Having just completed my annual "street quals", including weapon retention, restraints and hand to hand skills, I repeat the words of my instructor/certifier. "The only rule in hand to hand is to win. The best way to win is to create space and go for spray, batton or taser to overcome whatever force is being used against you, but if he grabs for your Glock then he means to kill you so all bets are off".

Legally in this country there is a defence of self defence but there is no right for civilians to carry spray, batons, knives or firearms to exercise that right. Where there is such a right to carry I would counsel: A) As well as a carrying a lethal force option also carry at least one less than lethal force option. Do not fall into the trap of "it's shoot him or nothing", and B) The best and most carried but least used option is situational awareness.

Incidentally, here is a paradox. As a NZ cop I can use my Asp baton when an offender is only actively resisting, provided my use of force is proportional. But I can only deploy a taser when his behaviour is asssultative. That means I can deploy an appointment capable of being lethal (blunt force trauma) at a lower threshold that I can deploy a non-lethal option but only if I use it appropriately.
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Old 09-26-2017, 04:47 PM
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That's why I carry a gun, at 68 I'm too darn old to be going hand to hand and running is out of the question .
Why do you assume it can be avoided just because you carry a gun?
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Old 09-26-2017, 04:52 PM
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That's why I carry a gun, at 68 I'm too darn old to be going hand to hand and running is out of the question .
Quote:
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Why do you assume it can be avoided just because you carry a gun?
Why do you assume he's going to avoid.

I get it as "shots rang out"..
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:47 PM
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At 57 years old, I worry more about fitness, rather than hand-to-hand combat. I will make every effort to avoid it.

I try to run at least 15 miles per week. I don't need my heart to give out, just when I need to take care of business. That means trying to outrun/outlast an attacker. If it's in my home, my firearm will be my first choice.
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
Why do you assume he's going to avoid.

I get it as "shots rang out"..
I don't understand your post.

He said he's too old to engage in H2H and that's why he carries a gun.

My question to him was regarding how he expects to avoid H2H since I don't think it can be in many scenarios.
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:23 PM
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Looks like I am the really old guy on the block. I am 75 and gratefully in good health except for both rotator cuffs being damaged and arthritis of the hands.

I do not train in H2H fighting I just practice six essential moves that would be best used in a close quarter fight like a mugging or knife attack. The moves work well against an arm driven attack with a knife, club, or fist/hand. While I once was trained to do much more, I selected simple to do basics for a physical encounter.

A few months back I wrote them out in a post I made to this forum. I will see if I. An find it and link to it.
Responding to my own post above promising information. Rather than link to it I copied and pasted it. Here it is.

Let me start by saying that there are already good books and videos about hand to hand defense. Look for Krav Maga an Israeli system it MARMAP, Marine Martial Arts Program. I think there are even YouTube videos on both, and there might be phone/tablet app for them too.

Here is what I learned, when and where.

Defending against a knife attack

In 1960 in Marine Corps Infantry Training Regiment (ITR) now called called School of infantry. It was an 8 week course that you did after 12 weeks of boot camp. In boot camp we learned the fundamentals of hand to hand combat. In ITR It was not uncommon to practice those skills ten to twelve hours a week so at minimum you had 80 hours of training and practice. Part of that training was fending off a knife attack. When you were assigned to an infantry battalion that practice continued several days a week for several hours. You learned by rote.

Here is what we were taught. For the purposes of this description I am assuming a right hand attack from the front. If the attack comes from the side you have to pivot to face it. If the attack comes from the rear, say your prayers. Of course the fundamental rule is never let an attacker get behind you.

Keep in mind that these five steps have to be done in rapid succession.

Step one: face attacker head on with feet shoulder width apart. The stance is important. Keep you eyes shifting between the knife and attacker's eyes. Frequently the eyes will telegraph where the knife will be aimed.

Step two: using the left arm block the attacker's arm by placing your arm against his near the wrist. You should use that part of the upper side of your arm a bit below the wrist. That way you can keep maneuvering your arm along his as he tries to pull away or otherwise maneuver. Never grab the wrist at this point of an encounter. If you miss you could end up dead. The idea is to keep the knife away from you not to take it until later.

Step three: this is critical to get right. Staying in stance mentioned in step one, as you block with your left arm with you right arm make a strong fisted jab at the attacker' nose. You are not going for a knockout punch. You want to keep him off balance. Follow that with a heel of the palm of your hand upward under his chin. Use all the strength you can muster. That violently snaps the head back and causes a serious jolt to the brain stem/ spine junction. Done hard enough it can knock a person unconscious or kill him.

Step four: as soon as you have delivered the palm thrust, pivot on your left foot placing your right foot directly under his arm. This puts you at an angle to the attacker. While blocking his arm with your arm smash your right elbow into his face.

Step five: bring your right arm at your elbow over the attacker's arm at his elbow. Pull up on his elbow and push down on his wrist until you hear a crack. That is his elbow being dislocated. His arm is now practically useless to him. If he does not drop the knife grip his hand with your two hands and twist the wrist so the palm is going upward facing the sky. Continue to twist the wrist until he drops the knife of you break his wrist. At which point if he fails to drop the knife just take it from him. It's safe to do that because you have really destroyed his ability to use the knife.

All five steps should take no more than three to four seconds. That takes a lot of practice, but it is quite possible to master. If the knife attack is from the left side then you have to do the same thing to that side.

So in summary it is block, punch, thrust, lock arm, break wrist, disarm. I can assure you it works. I had to do it once in Nam, and I was really glad I did not have to go through that twice.

Forgot one thing. Never rush the attacker make him come at you. People in motion has less balance than those who are stationery.
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
I don't understand your post.

He said he's too old to engage in H2H and that's why he carries a gun.

My question to him was regarding how he expects to avoid H2H since I don't think it can be in many scenarios.
If that was the question, you didn't ask it.

He plans on using a gun not hands. Hence my response.
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:50 PM
Mister X Mister X is offline
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Originally Posted by bigggbbruce View Post
If that was the question, you didn't ask it.c

He plans on using a gun not hands. Hence my response.
The whole thread is about H2H. I thought my question was clear. If not, it is now.

A lot of folks here believe they can rely completely on a gun and situational awareness. I think that is short-sighted and unrealistic.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:09 PM
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My opinion, for what it's worth...

I'm inclined to agree with Mister X on this one. There are certainly scenarios where one would have to use empty hand skills to create enough of a space and/or time gap in order to draw and fire a gun if necessary. Also, not all attacks might require a deadly force response. Of course, someone with physical limitations may be able to resort to deadly force in situations where it wouldn't be justified for a more able-bodied person due to disparity of force, but as a practical matter I think it would still be a good idea to have at least a basic set of empty hand techniques, even if it's just pushing an attacker away or a palm-heel strike. Maybe I'm outside my lane, but I have difficulty visualizing someone who is physically capable of firing a gun to defend oneself but lacks the ability to execute simple empty hand techniques (I'm not talking about uber-deadly Navy SEAL/Delta Force commando techniques or Chuck Norris-style flying roundhouse kicks).

Extensive martial arts training isn't necessary, and honestly may even be counterproductive depending on the circumstances. If you're studying a system with hundreds of possible techniques, such as aikido, will you be able to properly apply them under stress? On the other hand, a system that has simple, realistic techniques, like Krav Maga, might be a better choice. (As a side note, I always thought it would be interesting to get some training in WWII/OSS-style hand-to-hand techniques that were meant to get operatives to a functional level of skill quickly.)

I would be surprised if a good quality school that emphasizes self defense, such as one teaching Krav Maga, couldn't work with a student to help him/her deal with whatever physical limitations they may have. I have heard of students in wheelchairs or with amputations getting such training and having their needs accommodated. I would also be surprised if there weren't at least a few YouTube videos showing such techniques for those who, for whatever reason, can't or won't go to a self defense school.

I'm certainly no martial artist. I've dabbled in a few different martial arts, but I always keep coming back to a few basic techniques that are simple to apply and can create enough space and/or time to either draw my gun or run away screaming like a little girl ( ), whichever the situation requires.

Again, just my opinion.
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