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  #151  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:52 PM
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True story:

US Army Basic Training, 1968. Bayonet instruction under the tutelage of a Guamanian Sergeant First Class who, with absolutely no inflection or punctuation in his presentation, instructed us as follows:

Gentlemens with the bayonet you always go for the soft fleshy parts of the body You never want to get your bayonet stuck in the bony parts like the ribs If you ever get your bayonet blade lodged in the bony parts of the body you do not make like John Wayne and put your foot on the man's chest to pull out your bayonet You just fire one round from your rifle and the recoil will free the blade of your bayonet Any questions gentlemens.

I had to be the one to ask: If there is one round left in my rifle what the heck am I doing in a bayonet fight?

That cost me about a hundred push-ups, and I never got an answer to, what remains in my mind, a very valid question.

Judo, jiu-jitsu, karate, aikido, ken-po, boxing, and other sporting exercises are all well and good for younger folks in top physical condition willing to commit themselves to a regimen of training and exercise in order to show the rest of us how it should be done. I am not a young man in prime condition, I am a great-grandfather with two bum knees, a hernia, a problem shoulder, COPD, compression fracture of the lumbar spine, and a few other issues (some related to multiple Purple Heart medals over 40 years ago). I do my absolute best to avoid any type of physical conflict. I may not be able to run away as well as I might have done years ago, so I have to concentrate on what I am capable of, such as gouging out an eye, twisting a gonad sack until the design specifications have been exceeded, kicking a knee in a direction it wasn't designed to go, or such other expedients as the situation may allow (assuming that I am not able to escape any other way). A stout walking stick has come in handy on occasion, with both man and beast.

Fortunately, I have not had to resort to such awful behavior for a long time, and I haven't had to shoot anyone for weeks and weeks. Trying my best to keep things that way.
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  #152  
Old 09-26-2017, 08:02 PM
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Grew up boxing with my Father who boxed in College. Then was exposed to hand to hand and knife fighting. But at my age if I'm not shooting I guess I'm pistol whipping them.
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  #153  
Old 09-26-2017, 08:59 PM
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I will fight to the end, long as i can win in 3 seconds im good, after that im in trouble.
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  #154  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:09 PM
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In my 30 years on the street I was involved in many scrapes making arrests but always managed to come out on top, but that was 20 years ago. I'll be 71 soon and walk w/a cane so I cannot run and getting into a fistfight is unrealistic, I'll lose quickly and probably be badly hurt. My gun is an absolute last resort, as it should be, and I'll rely on my situational awareness to keep me safe.
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  #155  
Old 09-26-2017, 09:35 PM
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at 72 years, i have no intention of going "hand to hand"...however, if i am attacked, i have no hesitation of pulling the trigger and taking you out.....
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  #156  
Old 09-26-2017, 10:39 PM
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at 72 years, i have no intention of going "hand to hand"...however, if i am attacked, i have no hesitation of pulling the trigger and taking you out.....
If you were the target of a sucker punch in someone's "knock out game", would you not try to evade or parry the blow rather than just receive it and immediately go for the gun?


Unarmed transitional skills to access the weapon would still be considered H2H.

...

Last edited by Mister X; 09-26-2017 at 10:47 PM.
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  #157  
Old 09-26-2017, 11:04 PM
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If you were the target of a sucker punch, you wouldn't see it coming. Otherwise it wouldn't be a sucker punch.
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  #158  
Old 09-26-2017, 11:22 PM
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Hopefully we're not going to get caught up debating the precise definition of a sucker punch.

A sudden unexpected strike with the intent being to catch you off guard is simply what I'm referencing. Obviously if you never see it, you can't defend against it.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
Hopefully we're not going to get caught up debating the precise definition of a sucker punch.

A sudden unexpected strike with the intent being to catch you off guard is simply what I'm referencing. Obviously if you never see it, you can't defend against it.
Correct! I wrote earlier but being aware of where you are, who is around will go a long way to keep you out of trouble. Talking your way out might be a option depending on circumstances.

Staying out of bad areas also goes a long way, but sometimes you just have to be where you are. Heck even good areas if you watch the news after something nasty happens they always interview some neighbor that says, things like that never happen in this neighborhood.
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  #160  
Old 09-27-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NYlakesider View Post
Correct! I wrote earlier but being aware of where you are, who is around will go a long way to keep you out of trouble. Talking your way out might be a option depending on circumstances.

Staying out of bad areas also goes a long way, but sometimes you just have to be where you are. Heck even good areas if you watch the news after something nasty happens they always interview some neighbor that says, things like that never happen in this neighborhood.
I agree. The problem is so many people are speaking in absolutes and the reality is no one can be aware and alert to every potential threat every waking moment of their life. Nobody. No one is perfect in this regard. Look at how famed Chris Kyle lost his life.

Situational awareness, understanding pre-attack indicators and avoiding high risk areas and situations do go a long way in avoidance and preparation... Do you carry religiously? You may not be as safe as you believe. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

However, it's not always enough... The Myth of Situational Awareness

People often speak of being alert of ones environment, but how many actually know what to look for? nosofttargets.com

Unless you never go out in public, you will be in very close proximity to multiple people on a regular basis and someone intending to do you harm will try to give as little indication as they can of their intent and they are often very good and experienced at doing so. Irregardless of how soon you may pick up on it, an unarmed defensive response will very often be necessary to avoid or at least mitigate the damage done by the initial strikes to even get to the gun. You simply may not see the assault coming from a distance or have adequate time to access your weapon before the attack comes.

Effective(unarmed)counter-ambush methods is the key to many of these defense scenarios, but they are completely overlooked by many gun centric individuals who think they are safe just because they carry a gun.
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  #161  
Old 09-27-2017, 12:27 PM
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I no longer wrestle, box or bar brawl..............

But, I can still defend myself, if need be.
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  #162  
Old 09-29-2017, 10:14 AM
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When I had to start taking cumadin many years ago, the doctor told
me I couldn't get into any more knife fights. So, just to be on the
safe side, I try to not get into any kind of fights anymore. At 82 I've
been there & done that.
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  #163  
Old 09-29-2017, 03:48 PM
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Yes, I'm over 55.
Yes, I've trained in "hand-2-hand", which was used to some extent daily until I completely retired from cop-work 2 months ago.
Now, training mainly consists of staying in shape (weight control; regular cardio exercise program).
Luckily, my experience goes back ~40 years, however, in karate and kung-fu. I don't have advice for someone just starting out other than to just get what training you can or desire. Otherwise, consider some other non-lethal weapons too, such as, pepper-spray or some form of impact weapons (which can still benefit from actual training, however).

I still shoot regularly, often several times per week. All this makes for a busy-enough retired life.
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  #164  
Old 09-29-2017, 04:43 PM
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A


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  #165  
Old 09-29-2017, 06:05 PM
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This thread is over three years old. When it was still pretty new I posted that my age and physical limitations made running or fighting impossible (running) or impractical (fighting).

Now in a few weeks I'll be eighty. In addition to stage 3 COPD (no, I stopped smoking twenty-five years ago) I've developed three kinds of heart trouble. I have to use a four-wheel walker; my cane is no longer sufficient.

I'm pretty sure my situation is not unique on this forum.

I get out far less these days. I never go to bars, or knowingly visit high crime areas. But wherever I go, I am easy pickings for the kind of lowlife piece of excrement who likes to rob and/or beat the goo out of frail geezers.

Even more than when I posted here three and a half years ago, if I'm attacked my priority will be positioning myself so that my gun can be deployed. I pray it won't be necessary, but if it is that will be Job One.

I'm not ready to check out or be turned into a turnip. Not just yet. I'm afraid I would miss something interesting.
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  #166  
Old 10-03-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
If you were the target of a sucker punch in someone's "knock out game", would you not try to evade or parry the blow rather than just receive it and immediately go for the gun?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister X View Post
Hopefully we're not going to get caught up debating the precise definition of a sucker punch.
No, not debating the definition. The point is, if it's a sucker punch, you won't see it coming. Therefore, you won't be able to evade or parry.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:20 AM
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...if I'm attacked my priority will be positioning myself so that my gun can be deployed. I pray it won't be necessary, but if it is that will be Job One.
I think this is key.

You are not alone, but neither are you defenseless. I don't think anyone on this thread expects anyone to be Jackie Chan. At least I don't. My philosophy is that you need to put some thought into empty hand defense even if it's only to position yourself to get your gun out.

It's really about awareness and proximity. If I can keep the bad guy at a decent distance, I greatly increase my chances of winning the altercation. If I can't keep that distance, how can I make some distance?

The point here is, just having the gun isn't enough. You have to be able to deploy it when it's needed. The fact that a person can stand and move around tells me that they can do something. It might not be pretty, but there is always something.
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Old 10-03-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
No, not debating the definition. The point is, if it's a sucker punch, you won't see it coming. Therefore, you won't be able to evade or parry.
Actually you are. Textbook definition of a sucker punch is an unexpected punch or strike. That in no way indicates to me that it cannot be defended. Irregardless of what it means to you, most schools do teach sucker punch defense and usually differentiate between it coming from the front, side or from the rear. Debating semantics doesn't have any value.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:21 AM
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I guess that I would like to direct this question primarily to the older guys like me that routinely carry. I'll define "older" as over 55. Younger guys can feel free to chime in too especially if you have specific knowledge or experience in self defense training (you there Rastoff?)

Everything I've ever read says that you are much more likely to be involved in a close quarters physical altercation than a gun fight, which makes sense. It also makes sense that you can't just shoot unarmed assailants and not expect serious consequences. We are generally urged to train for this sort of combat if we undertake the responsibility of carrying a firearm. As I've aged a bit and developed typical aging changes (mild back issues, some shoulder issues, maybe heart, etc) I simply am unable to realistically train in Ju Jitsu, Krav Maga, or similar disciplines the way I maybe could have in the past. And I realize it will only get worse in the coming years. I can still effectively train with a firearm however. We all carry to defend ourselves and to be prepared, but my concern is I feel a nagging sense of being ill-prepared in this area. I stay in reasonably good shape and intend to continue to; maybe I could hold my own against some younger guys, but the effects of aging can't be stopped, and my fist-fighting days are dwindling fast! Obviously the biggest advantage of aging is wisdom and patience...ie being smart enough to avoid fist fights, but some unarmed attacks may not be avoidable.

So the question for some of you fellow mature guys is do you train for physical altercations,
if so how? Any recommendations? General thoughts on the subject?
Thanks in advance!
I am a 61-year-old handicapped USN Vietnam veteran. My Glock 17 is loaded and ready for all altercations range 0-100 yards. My numb right leg makes me vulnerable to hand-to-hand stuff, so I'll just shoot him/her.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:08 PM
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I could not live my life in that condition . . .
many of us that have been hurt in a work place accident caused in my case by a negligent employee's unsafe act don't have a choice ..

It's a hell of a lot better then being dead !!!!!@
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:42 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
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to answer the question .. many of us older people ( I'm 67) have more ailments that limit mobility and ability to fight off an aggressor in a hand to hand combat situation ..

COPD a lump together of all breathing ailments with no cure affects 10 million of us with 70% over the age of 45 .. many don't realize how bad it is effecting them till it reaches stage II of III stages and they are in their late 50's and older .. would limit any one with it from running away .. many with COPD are on O2 and lug around a tank or O2 concentrator ..

many of us have ailments that they are unaware of .. such as 4-6% of the male population that has smoked have abdominal aorta aneurysms of various size that if they were hit in the abdomen could rupture .. many families don't find out their loved one has one till it is the cause of death !! I've lost 2 friends with one in the past 10 years .. one while surgeon's were trying to repair it .. Rupture of the AAA occurs in 13% of men aged 65 or more, the mortality is 7095%

High blood pressure and other heart ailments can make it harder for the older population to do any kind of exertion that would raise their heart rate .. pace makers, stints and other electronic devices are implanted for heart conditions that would have killed you just 15 to 20 years ago !!

The list of ailments the elderly have is quite long .. I could go on but won't .

An instructor I took a class from told an elderly man that in some cases it might be best to fight from your back lying on the ground fending off an attack with your feet till you could draw your weapon .. instead of trying to run and being attacked from behind or standing taking punches to the head or body !!
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Old 10-15-2017, 11:54 AM
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An instructor I took a class from told an elderly man that in some cases it might be best to fight from your back lying on the ground fending off an attack with your feet till you could draw your weapon .. instead of trying to run and being attacked from behind or standing taking punches to the head or body !!
This is, and always has been, my point. There is always something you can do.

People make claims that they cannot fight. That simply isn't true. What Whitwabit said is true, there are plenty of people who can't afford to raise their heart beat or stress level on a regular basis. Even so, that doesn't mean they are completely helpless.

What it does mean, is that they need to learn alternate means of defense. Laying on your back and kicking could be one such method. Since I don't know what ailments everyone reading this has, I can't suggest methodologies. It would take too long. But, you can find a self-defense instructor in your area and work with them. Any self-defense instructor worth their salt should be able to guide you in alternate methods.
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Old 10-16-2017, 01:25 PM
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I train 4 or 5 days each week. I go full contact on Thursdays.
I'm big and easy to hit.
I hit back real good.
I turned 61 this year.
I test this spring for 4th Dan.
I ain't stoppin'
I ain't givin' up.
May I presume you have that 4th Dan and are now working toward "Master" level? (5th Dan)
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