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Old 03-11-2014, 07:29 PM
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This isn't what you're thinking!

If one is driving and gets pulled over for a minor traffic infraction but you don't have your license because you left your wallet at home, it's generally not a big deal as they just look you up in the system and can see the status of your driving privileges.

But what if you are carrying concealed and you don't have your permit with you because it's in the same wallet back at home? Is there a penalty/fine for that? I spoke to a cop yesterday and he said that he had no way to check an LTC permit from his cruiser and would have to take the weapon back to the station until I presented my permit.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:37 PM
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This would depend on where you are. In some states you can have a gun in the car without a CCW. However getting stopped and not any any ID and a gun in the car might change the playing field.

In NC you can have a gun in plain sight in your car without a CCW. A friend of mine was going to a beach in SC and got pull over by the police and the gun was there in plain sight and it took him forever just to get out of jail. It seems in SC you have to have them in the glove box or console, if you do not have a CCW.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:38 PM
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Not a problem in Texas. Your vehicle is an extension of your home, and no permit is required to posses a gun in your car.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:39 PM
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In Minnesota, not having your permit and identification while carrying is a much more serious offense than driving without your license. You would very likely be charged and detained until they could verify it or you posted bond. If it happened at night, it could be the next business day before you would be bonded out. Friday night could mean a weekend locked up.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:46 PM
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I am in Massachusetts and you need a permit (either Class A or B) to transport a firearm but I cannot find what the penalty is if you don't have it on you. The search continues....
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaysq View Post
This would depend on where you are. In some states you can have a gun in the car without a CCW. However getting stopped and not any any ID and a gun in the car might change the playing field.

In NC you can have a gun in plain sight in your car without a CCW. A friend of mine was going to a beach in SC and got pull over by the police and the gun was there in plain sight and it took him forever just to get out of jail. It seems in SC you have to have them in the glove box or console, if you do not have a CCW.
It's my understanding from my CCW class that here in NC your CCW is linked to your drivers license number. So if you get stopped and they run your license they will know you have a CCW.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:23 PM
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Any way you look at it, irresponsibility will get you in trouble.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:47 PM
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Any way you look at it, irresponsibility will get you in trouble.
I understand your point but I don't think forgetting your wallet equates to irresponsibility.
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post
I am in Massachusetts and you need a permit (either Class A or B) to transport a firearm but I cannot find what the penalty is if you don't have it on you. The search continues....
Might burn us at the stake....
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post
I understand your point but I don't think forgetting your wallet equates to irresponsibility.
Let's see. You are driving without a driver's license, you commit a moving violation, you're carrying a loaded handgun without your license and that's NOT irresponsible? Really?
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:05 PM
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Let's see. You are driving without a driver's license, you commit a moving violation, you're carrying a loaded handgun without your license and that's NOT irresponsible? Really?
Correct. You may have erred but it does not equate being irresponsible. What if you had your wallet but it fell out at home when you got out of your chair and you didn't realize it? Are you still irresponsible?

Irresponsible is leaving your minor kids home alone while you go drink/gamble.

Irresponsible is leaving your pet in a 100+ degree car while you shop for 3 hours.

Irresponsible is leaving your gun out where anybody can grab it.

Having your gun in your possession but having FORGOTTEN your WALLET is not being irresponsible IMO.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:47 PM
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In TN a DL and CL are linked. When the trooper runs the driver's license he will see the carry license. However, the law is that both have to be with you when your driving and carrying. Don't know what happens if you forgot but my guess is that there would be at least a fine. Probably depend on where it happened.
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:54 PM
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Also in Texas the fact you have a CHL will be indicated on a DL check.

Your DL does not have your CHL number on it, BUT your CHL does have your DL number on it.
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Old 03-12-2014, 12:08 AM
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In TN a DL and CL are linked. When the trooper runs the driver's license he will see the carry license. However, the law is that both have to be with you when your driving and carrying. Don't know what happens if you forgot but my guess is that there would be at least a fine. Probably depend on where it happened.
That is what I am trying to find out in Massachusetts.
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Old 03-12-2014, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post
I understand your point but I don't think forgetting your wallet equates to irresponsibility.
Sorry but I disagree. If you're going to carry responsibly, you don't forget your wallet. You don't forget your permit. You don't forget to renew your drivers license or car insurance.

If/when you get pulled over, cops don't care WHY. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Neither is forgetfulness.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:59 AM
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The Texas CHL law says you have to carry your license, but a couple of years ago they removed the penalty for not doing so.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:00 AM
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Depending on the region and Officer. If the Officer is a old time street cop-no big deal. If the Officer is a "Newbie" hot shot-than you might have a problem.
*** If you are inside your vehicle--I don't see a problem unless you admit you are "Carrying". I made it a habit to consider everyone was armed on a Traffic Stop.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Badquaker View Post
Not a problem in Texas. Your vehicle is an extension of your home, and no permit is required to posses a gun in your car.

As long as it is "in the car" and not on your person its not a problem.
As above in TX you are required to have permit on you if the firearm is on you.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:19 AM
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Get a copy of your states Firearm Laws. It was issued to me when I finished the paperwork for my cpl application, but your state may operate differently. It should (I would think) be on the states website.

I'm surprised that the law can't tell if you have a cpl during a traffic stop. Here in Michigan it's the 2nd line that comes up when a plate is run. The fine (1st occurance) is $100 here.

And Yes, it is irresponsible to carry without your card on you. Whether or not you did something on purpose is not the deciding factor. Responsible means taking care of the things that are your responsibility. Irresponsible, is NOT doing so. So unless you want to argue that you aren't responsible for keeping your card on you when you carry...?

Last edited by Protected One; 03-12-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:35 AM
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It depends on the state. Here in Michigan We are responsible to Always have our CPL when carrying concealed:



Proper Conduct During Encounters with Police

Responsibilities of Individuals With a Concealed Pistol License:
An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately disclose to the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle.
Failure to disclose this information to a police officer carries the following penalties:
First offense = State Civil Infraction - $500 fine and 6-month CPL license suspension.
Second offense = State Civil Infraction - $1000 fine and CPL license revocation.
An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall have the license in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.
Failure to possess CPL license when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and a $100.00 fine.
Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a police officer:
His or her license to carry a concealed pistol
His or her driver license or personal identification card
Failure to show CPL license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.
A pistol carried in violation of numbers 1, 2, or 3 is subject to immediate seizure by a police officer.
If a pistol is seized for failure to possess a CPL while carrying a concealed pistol:
Individual has 45 days in which to display their license to carry a concealed pistol to the law enforcement agency that seized the pistol and the pistol shall be returned.
If the individual does not display their license to carry a concealed pistol within 45 days the pistol is subject to forfeiture.

It is important to know the laws in your state and also in states you may travel to.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stc1 View Post
It depends on the state. Here in Michigan We are responsible to Always have our CPL when carrying concealed:



Proper Conduct During Encounters with Police

Responsibilities of Individuals With a Concealed Pistol License:
An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately disclose to the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle.
Failure to disclose this information to a police officer carries the following penalties:
First offense = State Civil Infraction - $500 fine and 6-month CPL license suspension.
Second offense = State Civil Infraction - $1000 fine and CPL license revocation.
An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall have the license in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.
Failure to possess CPL license when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and a $100.00 fine.
Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a police officer:
His or her license to carry a concealed pistol
His or her driver license or personal identification card
Failure to show CPL license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.
A pistol carried in violation of numbers 1, 2, or 3 is subject to immediate seizure by a police officer.
If a pistol is seized for failure to possess a CPL while carrying a concealed pistol:
Individual has 45 days in which to display their license to carry a concealed pistol to the law enforcement agency that seized the pistol and the pistol shall be returned.
If the individual does not display their license to carry a concealed pistol within 45 days the pistol is subject to forfeiture.

It is important to know the laws in your state and also in states you may travel to.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

I've also found out that it can be beneficial to notify the officer that you have a permit but are not carrying. My son-in-law and I have both been pulled over at different times and notified the officer that we had a permit, but no gun. We were both thanked for doing so and let go without a ticket.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
Sorry but I disagree. If you're going to carry responsibly, you don't forget your wallet. You don't forget your permit. You don't forget to renew your drivers license or car insurance.

If/when you get pulled over, cops don't care WHY. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Neither is forgetfulness.
this!

if i plan on driving, i check my pocket for my wallet just before i walk out the door and then again as i get in my vehicle. i do this even if i am just bringing my vehicle from being parked on the curb across the street into my driveway.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:32 AM
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I am pretty anal about checking for my wallet but I have forgotten it once or twice. I don’t think a random incident equates to irresponsibility, an ongoing pattern of behavior where you continually walk out the door without your wallet maybe but not a one time lapse.

That said, in Colorado no permit is required for you to carry in your car if you are caught on foot it creates what the law calls a rebuttable presumption that you don’t have a permit and it’s handled like driving without an insurance card. They give you a court date and on or before that date you show up with a permit issued before the day you got ticketed and they dismiss the case.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim1392 View Post
It's my understanding from my CCW class that here in NC your CCW is linked to your drivers license number. So if you get stopped and they run your license they will know you have a CCW.
That is correct, Jim. You also have to tell the officer that you have a permit and are carrying concealed. Not sure if they can track it by your tag number as the OP was wondering what would happen if you did not have your CCW permit with you.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:04 AM
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In Alabama permits are not linked to drivers license. If you do not have permit on you then the officer contacts the issuing county you claim to have received it from. It can be a quick call or a lengthy wait depending on how busy the S.O. is at that time. There is no option to carry a loaded or accessible handgun inside the passenger area of a vehicle here without permit or reciprocity recognized permit...
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:52 AM
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FWIW, I guarantee I would be in big trouble (if not in handcuffs) were I somehow (for any reason) id'd as toting a gun in NYC or any other place I frequent and could not immediately produce my LEOSA credentials, in full.

With that in mind, I am careful to comply with all requirements associated with carrying a concealed weapon. IMHO, my personal failure to do so would be irresponsible...and unlawful.

Be safe.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:38 PM
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This will vary from state to state, so answers generated here will likewise vary. My carry license(s), retired ID, and other critical stuff are with my DL in a small ID case (I no longer carry a traditional wallet, and I gave up on hip pocket carry of my ID a decade ago because it does a lot of damage to the nerves in that area). Making sure you have your DL, carry license and other critical stuff is not an option; it is part of being a responsible armed adult. Don't F(oul) Up.
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Old 03-12-2014, 05:58 PM
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In Ms we have open carry law. Solves a lot of problems.

Mississippi | OpenCarry.org
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post
Correct. You may have erred but it does not equate being irresponsible. What if you had your wallet but it fell out at home when you got out of your chair and you didn't realize it? Are you still irresponsible?

Irresponsible is leaving your minor kids home alone while you go drink/gamble.

Irresponsible is leaving your pet in a 100+ degree car while you shop for 3 hours.

Irresponsible is leaving your gun out where anybody can grab it.

Having your gun in your possession but having FORGOTTEN your WALLET is not being irresponsible IMO.
With all due respect, the first three you mention are NEGLIGENCE, the fourth is irresponsible. JMO
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M. View Post
My carry license(s), retired ID, and other critical stuff are with my DL in a small ID case (I no longer carry a traditional wallet, and I gave up on hip pocket carry of my ID a decade ago).
DITTO! Traditional wallet carry (hip pocket) has been medically proven to cause spinal misalignment. The thicker the wallet the more severe the misalignment.

Last edited by Protected One; 03-12-2014 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Punctuation
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:52 PM
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DL and CWFL are not linked in FL either, and not having your license and required ID is a non-criminal civil penalty of $25. How that works out with the LEO at the time of the stop is another question altogether. I think LEOs can access the CWFL system, but it takes a different check beyond a DL check.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post
This isn't what you're thinking!

If one is driving and gets pulled over for a minor traffic infraction but you don't have your license because you left your wallet at home, it's generally not a big deal as they just look you up in the system and can see the status of your driving privileges.

But what if you are carrying concealed and you don't have your permit with you because it's in the same wallet back at home? Is there a penalty/fine for that? I spoke to a cop yesterday and he said that he had no way to check an LTC permit from his cruiser and would have to take the weapon back to the station until I presented my permit.
This seems like the perfect situation to be courteous and professional and if they can't verify my CWP I would be ok with him taking my weapon.

People make mistakes. We forget things but that isn't an excuse but we are human. I want to meet one who doesn't fall into this category.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:31 PM
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DITTO! Traditional wallet carry (hip pocket) has been medically proven to cause spinal misalignment. The thicker the wallet the more severe the misalignment.
You guys must have more money than me. I never have enough in my wallet to injure my spine.
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaysq View Post
You guys must have more money than me. I never have enough in my wallet to injure my spine.
The biggest culprit in thick wallets is not money, but all the other "****" men tend to keep in them. Average wallet is about 1" thick.
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  #35  
Old 03-12-2014, 09:29 PM
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My Louisiana permit lists my Drivers Lic. number so maybe they are cross referenced. Of course, my CCW lic is not listed on the Drivers Lic.
Steve W
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  #36  
Old 03-13-2014, 02:18 PM
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Depending on the state's laws, presenting the license later would be at best an affirmative defense. Here in Washington, for example, it becomes a civil infraction (like a fine only traffic ticket), BUT ONLY LATER. You can be arrested, booked, held to see a judge, have to post bond, etc, and then go to court. Your firearm would be held, etc, and in the People's Republic of the I5 Corridor at least, getting it returned in a timely manner would be an unholy pain the backside. The penalty in time lost, money expended, and embarrassment from the record of arrest and booking and all the other crud would be staggering. Your car would be towed - which is a ton of bucks. If I am traveling with my dog, he is at extreme risk because he is big and hates strangers. There are all kinds of bad things that can happen, and they are solely under your control and solely your fault if they do.

Unless you have been through that, or put others through it for legally appropriate reasons (as I have in both LE and prosecution, although not for a firearm offense of this nature), you have NO IDEA what you are risking by the irresponsible act involved. In some states, the reaction could be even worse because of the likely administrative responses to the event.

Carrying a firearm is serious business, and the standards that have to apply are high. If you are not responsible enough to ensure that you are always in compliance with the legal mandates that go with carrying, you have two choices: don't carry, or un(screw) yourself.
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  #37  
Old 03-13-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Damn Yankee View Post
In Ms we have open carry law. Solves a lot of problems.

Mississippi | OpenCarry.org
We have open carry in MI too, however, in the car or vehicle...if you don't have a CPL, it must be cased and inaccessible to passengers/driver. Also must be unloaded and separated from ammo.

If you have a CPL, you can have it in plain sight on the dash board if you wanted too...

Good idea to not only become familiar with open/ccw laws while traveling both in your state, and surrounding states you may visit/drive through.
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  #38  
Old 03-13-2014, 04:22 PM
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A few years ago I was an hour away from home. Looked at the plates on my SUV and realized they were expired. Called the county treasurers office and renewed them over the phone with a credit card. Then I realized we had no insurance card. Dang it. THEN, I realized I had lost my carry permit. I was carrying two revolvers. I called my local Sheriffs department and explained all that to the deputy. He laughed and said if I get pulled over they can advise the officer that I have current tags, and a carry permit. Whew.

I drove home REAL careful.
Jim
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post

... What if you had your wallet but it fell out at home when you got out of your chair and you didn't realize it? Are you still irresponsible?
Absolutely. It's SOMEBODY's responsibility to have that license in posession. And that somebody is...guess who.

As others have pointed out, you appear to committing at least three violations. 1) traffic violation(s), 2) no driver lic, 3) carrying a weapon without a permit. Using the excuse "It fell out in my chair and I didn't realize it" is not much different than "I didn't stop for the stop sign but it was because I didn't realize it". You're either acting responsibly or you're not. You're either abiding by the law or you're not. Blaming it on the chair is NOT acting responsibly.

Take responsibility for your own actions. Or ask the cop to take your chair to jail instead of you.


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Old 03-13-2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rlongclu View Post
With all due respect, the first three you mention are NEGLIGENCE, the fourth is irresponsible. JMO
So if you purposely leave your underage kids at home while you go drink - you're being negligent? But if you forget or inadvertently dropped your wallet at home - it's being irresponsible?

Let me put it in another scenario for you in hopes of you understanding of what I am trying to say..

Lets suppose you are carrying your handgun and your permit but managed to drop your wallet while out shopping (or maybe even got pick-pocketed) and on the way home you get pulled over for having a license plate bulb being burnt out. As you reach your wallet you realize it is gone! Have you suddenly gone from being a law abiding citizen to an irresponsible jerk?
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post
So if you purposely leave your underage kids at home while you go drink - you're being negligent? But if you forget or inadvertently dropped your wallet at home - it's being irresponsible?

Let me put it in another scenario for you in hopes of you understanding of what I am trying to say..

Lets suppose you are carrying your handgun and your permit but managed to drop your wallet while out shopping (or maybe even got pick-pocketed) and on the way home you get pulled over for having a license plate bulb being burnt out. As you reach your wallet you realize it is gone! Have you suddenly gone from being a law abiding citizen to an irresponsible jerk?
First, nobody said you'd be a jerk, just irresponsible. In the latter scenario just hope the pickpocket doesn't take your weapon also. Then you may have real problems to deal with
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2014, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post
So if you purposely leave your underage kids at home while you go drink - you're being negligent? But if you forget or inadvertently dropped your wallet at home - it's being irresponsible?

Let me put it in another scenario for you in hopes of you understanding of what I am trying to say..

Lets suppose you are carrying your handgun and your permit but managed to drop your wallet while out shopping (or maybe even got pick-pocketed) and on the way home you get pulled over for having a license plate bulb being burnt out. As you reach your wallet you realize it is gone! Have you suddenly gone from being a law abiding citizen to an irresponsible jerk?
You are relying on a cop just trying to do his job. He may or may not see the gray area that you want him to see. His world is literally black and white. And when it comes to a firearm, gray areas don't exist. You would probably be taken to jail and things would be sorted out later.

Think about it. Driving a vehicle, in possession of a firearm, and no ID. What do you expect a cop to do?
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  #43  
Old 03-13-2014, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post

So if you purposely leave your underage kids at home while you go drink - you're being negligent? But if you forget or inadvertently dropped your wallet at home - it's being irresponsible?
Yes
Yes

What's the problem with checking for your wallet as you get into your car? Don't you check other things as well? Ammunition in your gun? Gun in the holster? Or did they fall out in the couch cushions at home before you left the house too?

Let's see...I'm going to drive my car somewhere. Do I have my driver's license?

Let's see...I'm going to carry my weapon and a CCW is required in my area. Do I have my CCW permit?

Let's see...I'm going to jump out of an airplane. Do I have my parachute?

Nobody has called you a jerk. If you're going to carry a weapon, you have a higher level of responsibility than someone who does not carry. Rise to the occasion. Or don't.


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  #44  
Old 03-13-2014, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M. View Post
Depending on the state's laws, presenting the license later would be at best an affirmative defense. Here in Washington, for example, it becomes a civil infraction (like a fine only traffic ticket), BUT ONLY LATER. You can be arrested, booked, held to see a judge, have to post bond, etc, and then go to court. Your firearm would be held, etc, and in the People's Republic of the I5 Corridor at least, getting it returned in a timely manner would be an unholy pain the backside. The penalty in time lost, money expended, and embarrassment from the record of arrest and booking and all the other crud would be staggering. Your car would be towed - which is a ton of bucks. If I am traveling with my dog, he is at extreme risk because he is big and hates strangers. There are all kinds of bad things that can happen, and they are solely under your control and solely your fault if they do.

Unless you have been through that, or put others through it for legally appropriate reasons (as I have in both LE and prosecution, although not for a firearm offense of this nature), you have NO IDEA what you are risking by the irresponsible act involved. In some states, the reaction could be even worse because of the likely administrative responses to the event.

Carrying a firearm is serious business, and the standards that have to apply are high. If you are not responsible enough to ensure that you are always in compliance with the legal mandates that go with carrying, you have two choices: don't carry, or un(screw) yourself.
^^^^^^^^^
What Doug said!!

All he forgot to mention is the thousands of dollars you will give your new best friend : your attorney.
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  #45  
Old 03-13-2014, 09:08 PM
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Here in Missouri the CCW license has the same number as your drivers license. My CCW is on a non-drivers photo ID. I went through a sobriety checkpoint once and the officer saw the non-drivers ID and said,"what's that other license, a CCW"? I said that it was, then about that time my scanner went off and was picking up his department. He asked me how I got the frequency of his department, and I told him I got it on the internet. I asked him if it was OK to have my scanner in the rig and he just told me to go on. Never asked me if I was carrying or not. I don't see why they could not tell you have a CCW by running your plates or DL. I think a lot of the time it is your attitude that makes the difference. Cops are probably relieved to approach a courteous person on a traffic stop of any kind. Helluva job they got there.
Peace,
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  #46  
Old 03-13-2014, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
You are relying on a cop just trying to do his job. He may or may not see the gray area that you want him to see. His world is literally black and white. And when it comes to a firearm, gray areas don't exist. You would probably be taken to jail and things would be sorted out later.

Think about it. Driving a vehicle, in possession of a firearm, and no ID. What do you expect a cop to do?

I absolutely agree with you 100%....which brings me back to my original question in Post #1! What is the fine or penalty?
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  #47  
Old 03-13-2014, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hogwylde View Post
I absolutely agree with you 100%....which brings me back to my original question in Post #1! What is the fine or penalty?
Here? Or Mass?

RCW 9.41.050: Carrying firearms.

RCW 7.80.060: Person receiving notice ? Identification and detention.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=7.80.120
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Last edited by Kanewpadle; 03-13-2014 at 10:09 PM.
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  #48  
Old 03-13-2014, 10:11 PM
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Preferably MA but if one could at least give an example of what happened elsewhere....it may at least just serve as an eye opener or topic of conversation.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:26 PM
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I have had a roadside chat with the 5-0 on a couple occaisions.
Once was young Wyatt Earp attempting to do a job he was in no way prepared for, and on other occaisions the LEO only asked if I was armed and did I have a permit. Only interested in if there were any warrants, and was any booze on board. This state is generally populated with armed citizens. Way higher per capita than other states. It is considered a normal condition.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:36 PM
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WHERE did it occur? You post a question without pertinent facts?

Be safe.


Quote:
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I absolutely agree with you 100%....which brings me back to my original question in Post #1! What is the fine or penalty?
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