This isn't what you're thinking!

If one is driving and gets pulled over for a minor traffic infraction but you don't have your license because you left your wallet at home, it's generally not a big deal as they just look you up in the system and can see the status of your driving privileges.

But what if you are carrying concealed and you don't have your permit with you because it's in the same wallet back at home? Is there a penalty/fine for that? I spoke to a cop yesterday and he said that he had no way to check an LTC permit from his cruiser and would have to take the weapon back to the station until I presented my permit.

This would depend on where you are. In some states you can have a gun in the car without a CCW. However getting stopped and not any any ID and a gun in the car might change the playing field.

In NC you can have a gun in plain sight in your car without a CCW. A friend of mine was going to a beach in SC and got pull over by the police and the gun was there in plain sight and it took him forever just to get out of jail. It seems in SC you have to have them in the glove box or console, if you do not have a CCW.

It's my understanding from my CCW class that here in NC your CCW is linked to your drivers license number. So if you get stopped and they run your license they will know you have a CCW.

Any way you look at it, irresponsibility will get you in trouble.

__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I understand your point but I don't think forgetting your wallet equates to irresponsibility.

Let's see. You are driving without a driver's license, you commit a moving violation, you're carrying a loaded handgun without your license and that's NOT irresponsible? Really?

Sorry but I disagree. If you're going to carry responsibly, you don't forget your wallet. You don't forget your permit. You don't forget to renew your drivers license or car insurance.

If/when you get pulled over, cops don't care WHY. Ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. Neither is forgetfulness.

__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

That is correct, Jim. You also have to tell the officer that you have a permit and are carrying concealed. Not sure if they can track it by your tag number as the OP was wondering what would happen if you did not have your CCW permit with you.

Not a problem in Texas. Your vehicle is an extension of your home, and no permit is required to posses a gun in your car.

As long as it is "in the car" and not on your person its not a problem.
As above in TX you are required to have permit on you if the firearm is on you.

In Minnesota, not having your permit and identification while carrying is a much more serious offense than driving without your license. You would very likely be charged and detained until they could verify it or you posted bond. If it happened at night, it could be the next business day before you would be bonded out. Friday night could mean a weekend locked up.

I am in Massachusetts and you need a permit (either Class A or B) to transport a firearm but I cannot find what the penalty is if you don't have it on you. The search continues....

Might burn us at the stake....

If you really want to know, call the state police (or your states equivalent) and ask for the person most knowledgable on firearm laws. Done.

Also in Texas the fact you have a CHL will be indicated on a DL check.

Your DL does not have your CHL number on it, BUT your CHL does have your DL number on it.

The Texas CHL law says you have to carry your license, but a couple of years ago they removed the penalty for not doing so.

Depending on the region and Officer. If the Officer is a old time street cop-no big deal. If the Officer is a "Newbie" hot shot-than you might have a problem.
*** If you are inside your vehicle--I don't see a problem unless you admit you are "Carrying". I made it a habit to consider everyone was armed on a Traffic Stop.

Get a copy of your states Firearm Laws. It was issued to me when I finished the paperwork for my cpl application, but your state may operate differently. It should (I would think) be on the states website.

I'm surprised that the law can't tell if you have a cpl during a traffic stop. Here in Michigan it's the 2nd line that comes up when a plate is run. The fine (1st occurance) is $100 here.

And Yes, it is irresponsible to carry without your card on you. Whether or not you did something on purpose is not the deciding factor. Responsible means taking care of the things that are your responsibility. Irresponsible, is NOT doing so. So unless you want to argue that you aren't responsible for keeping your card on you when you carry...?

It depends on the state. Here in Michigan We are responsible to Always have our CPL when carrying concealed:



Proper Conduct During Encounters with Police

Responsibilities of Individuals With a Concealed Pistol License:
An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol who is stopped by a police officer (traffic stop or otherwise) while in possession of a pistol shall immediately disclose to the police officer that he or she is carrying a concealed pistol either on their person or in their motor vehicle.
Failure to disclose this information to a police officer carries the following penalties:
First offense = State Civil Infraction - $500 fine and 6-month CPL license suspension.
Second offense = State Civil Infraction - $1000 fine and CPL license revocation.
An individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall have the license in his or her possession at all times he or she is carrying a concealed pistol.
Failure to possess CPL license when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and a $100.00 fine.
Upon request, an individual licensed to carry a concealed pistol shall show both of the following to a police officer:
His or her license to carry a concealed pistol
His or her driver license or personal identification card
Failure to show CPL license and Michigan driver license or Michigan personal identification card when carrying a concealed pistol is a State Civil Infraction and $100.00 fine.
A pistol carried in violation of numbers 1, 2, or 3 is subject to immediate seizure by a police officer.
If a pistol is seized for failure to possess a CPL while carrying a concealed pistol:
Individual has 45 days in which to display their license to carry a concealed pistol to the law enforcement agency that seized the pistol and the pistol shall be returned.
If the individual does not display their license to carry a concealed pistol within 45 days the pistol is subject to forfeiture.

It is important to know the laws in your state and also in states you may travel to.

__________________
MCRGO member

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I've also found out that it can be beneficial to notify the officer that you have a permit but are not carrying. My son-in-law and I have both been pulled over at different times and notified the officer that we had a permit, but no gun. We were both thanked for doing so and let go without a ticket.

I am pretty anal about checking for my wallet but I have forgotten it once or twice. I don’t think a random incident equates to irresponsibility, an ongoing pattern of behavior where you continually walk out the door without your wallet maybe but not a one time lapse.

That said, in Colorado no permit is required for you to carry in your car if you are caught on foot it creates what the law calls a rebuttable presumption that you don’t have a permit and it’s handled like driving without an insurance card. They give you a court date and on or before that date you show up with a permit issued before the day you got ticketed and they dismiss the case.

__________________
Retired Career Security Guard

In Alabama permits are not linked to drivers license. If you do not have permit on you then the officer contacts the issuing county you claim to have received it from. It can be a quick call or a lengthy wait depending on how busy the S.O. is at that time. There is no option to carry a loaded or accessible handgun inside the passenger area of a vehicle here without permit or reciprocity recognized permit...

FWIW, I guarantee I would be in big trouble (if not in handcuffs) were I somehow (for any reason) id'd as toting a gun in NYC or any other place I frequent and could not immediately produce my LEOSA credentials, in full.

With that in mind, I am careful to comply with all requirements associated with carrying a concealed weapon. IMHO, my personal failure to do so would be irresponsible...and unlawful.

Be safe.

This will vary from state to state, so answers generated here will likewise vary. My carry license(s), retired ID, and other critical stuff are with my DL in a small ID case (I no longer carry a traditional wallet, and I gave up on hip pocket carry of my ID a decade ago because it does a lot of damage to the nerves in that area). Making sure you have your DL, carry license and other critical stuff is not an option; it is part of being a responsible armed adult. Don't F(oul) Up.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

DITTO! Traditional wallet carry (hip pocket) has been medically proven to cause spinal misalignment. The thicker the wallet the more severe the misalignment.

You guys must have more money than me. I never have enough in my wallet to injure my spine.

The biggest culprit in thick wallets is not money, but all the other "****" men tend to keep in them. Average wallet is about 1" thick.

I just counted. I have 15 plastic items in my wallet (credit cards, DL, CHL, insurance and various other ID cards.) My wallet opens up to four pockets, each pocket can hold up to six cards. When closed, my wallet currently measures just slightly less than 1/2 inch and that includes, at the moment, 14 bills of various denominations. Closed, in pocket formation, it measures 3.5 inches x 4.5 inches.

You cannot tell that it is in your hip pocket.

In Ms we have open carry law. Solves a lot of problems.

Mississippi | OpenCarry.org

We have open carry in MI too, however, in the car or vehicle...if you don't have a CPL, it must be cased and inaccessible to passengers/driver. Also must be unloaded and separated from ammo.

If you have a CPL, you can have it in plain sight on the dash board if you wanted too...

Good idea to not only become familiar with open/ccw laws while traveling both in your state, and surrounding states you may visit/drive through.

A few years ago I was an hour away from home. Looked at the plates on my SUV and realized they were expired. Called the county treasurers office and renewed them over the phone with a credit card. Then I realized we had no insurance card. Dang it. THEN, I realized I had lost my carry permit. I was carrying two revolvers. I called my local Sheriffs department and explained all that to the deputy. He laughed and said if I get pulled over they can advise the officer that I have current tags, and a carry permit. Whew.

I drove home REAL careful.
Jim

DL and CWFL are not linked in FL either, and not having your license and required ID is a non-criminal civil penalty of $25. How that works out with the LEO at the time of the stop is another question altogether. I think LEOs can access the CWFL system, but it takes a different check beyond a DL check.

This seems like the perfect situation to be courteous and professional and if they can't verify my CWP I would be ok with him taking my weapon.

People make mistakes. We forget things but that isn't an excuse but we are human. I want to meet one who doesn't fall into this category.

My Louisiana permit lists my Drivers Lic. number so maybe they are cross referenced. Of course, my CCW lic is not listed on the Drivers Lic.
Steve W

Depending on the state's laws, presenting the license later would be at best an affirmative defense. Here in Washington, for example, it becomes a civil infraction (like a fine only traffic ticket), BUT ONLY LATER. You can be arrested, booked, held to see a judge, have to post bond, etc, and then go to court. Your firearm would be held, etc, and in the People's Republic of the I5 Corridor at least, getting it returned in a timely manner would be an unholy pain the backside. The penalty in time lost, money expended, and embarrassment from the record of arrest and booking and all the other crud would be staggering. Your car would be towed - which is a ton of bucks. If I am traveling with my dog, he is at extreme risk because he is big and hates strangers. There are all kinds of bad things that can happen, and they are solely under your control and solely your fault if they do.

Unless you have been through that, or put others through it for legally appropriate reasons (as I have in both LE and prosecution, although not for a firearm offense of this nature), you have NO IDEA what you are risking by the irresponsible act involved. In some states, the reaction could be even worse because of the likely administrative responses to the event.

Carrying a firearm is serious business, and the standards that have to apply are high. If you are not responsible enough to ensure that you are always in compliance with the legal mandates that go with carrying, you have two choices: don't carry, or un(screw) yourself.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

^^^^^^^^^
What Doug said!!

All he forgot to mention is the thousands of dollars you will give your new best friend : your attorney.

Here in Missouri the CCW license has the same number as your drivers license. My CCW is on a non-drivers photo ID. I went through a sobriety checkpoint once and the officer saw the non-drivers ID and said,"what's that other license, a CCW"? I said that it was, then about that time my scanner went off and was picking up his department. He asked me how I got the frequency of his department, and I told him I got it on the internet. I asked him if it was OK to have my scanner in the rig and he just told me to go on. Never asked me if I was carrying or not. I don't see why they could not tell you have a CCW by running your plates or DL. I think a lot of the time it is your attitude that makes the difference. Cops are probably relieved to approach a courteous person on a traffic stop of any kind. Helluva job they got there.
Peace,
Gordon

__________________
better have that checked

I have had a roadside chat with the 5-0 on a couple occaisions.
Once was young Wyatt Earp attempting to do a job he was in no way prepared for, and on other occaisions the LEO only asked if I was armed and did I have a permit. Only interested in if there were any warrants, and was any booze on board. This state is generally populated with armed citizens. Way higher per capita than other states. It is considered a normal condition.

When I was a guard checking in contractors to badge them to enter our factory I was amazed what percentage of people "claimed" they left their wallets and driver licenses at home!

Given the attitude about LTCs and firearms in general there, the penalty is likely only part of the problem. I could see administrative action that really sucks. If you use appropriate care, it will never be an issue.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

I can't answer the question but this begs clarification.

This information is in direct opposition to the guy in Maryland traveling with his family to Florida and was pulled over. If I recall correctly the indicated they ran his plates and knew he could carry a gun - had a CWP. They make the family get out of the car, searched his vehicle, luggage and detained for about 2 1/2 hours.

He did not have his gun with him...but they knew.

So one LEO says they have no way to tell (the OP's case) and another pulls a guy over because he knows he has a CWP.

Something doesn't sound right here.

One of my brothers in Texas law enforcement told me several years ago, that they do not know you have a CHL till they run the DL#, not when they run the tags, but I listen to a scanner
and it sounds to me like they know a lot from just the plates.
I wonder if that has changed.

Then my question becomes can LE get a name for a licensed driver to run from a license plate? How else would the Maryland LE know about the driver? This case made TV NEWS here in Roanoke/New Castle Va area.

It depends on the way the state of registration enters the license plate info into their system. Some require that the registered owner(s) provide DL #s on the registration forms/renewals, and then that is associated with the plate.

The next variable is the software. In some states, the software automatically provides the DL info back when the plate is run. Illinois did this even in the mid80s. I watched mine run by a dispatcher as an experiment, and it took less than 10 seconds from entry to return. The return showed the car and its data (make, model, color, etc); the address to which it was a registered (A PO Box, of course, for safety reasons), and the registered owners (my wife and I). The software having picked up the DL#s, ran both, and showed any moving violations in the last year (none), wants, and DL stops (suspended or revoked, of course also none), along with all my endorsements (A, T, X, M, glasses restriction, etc).

When I got to Washington, the software here (ironically called "ACCESS") was flat out primitive/not set up that well, a real safety hazard for officers. The next interface issue is that when running a plate from State A in State B, the software involved (both state and NCIC) may not pick up the data from state A in a useful manner, and of course dispatchers and officers have a hard time knowing the nature of the responses from 49 other states, plus Canadian provinces and sometimes Mexico.

The entry of other stuff, such as a carry license, is a matter of state process and software design. Again, of course, how State B accesses the stuff from State A will vary and may not be familiar to officers and dispatchers. My recollection is that here, for example, the CPL data is not associated with the registration, but when our new software was put on the car computers, we could press another button for various other searches, and the data would populate the right fields for the search associated with that particular button. Some would not auto-populate, and we had to cut and paste just like on your home computer.

Hope that helps.

__________________
NHI, 10-8.

Minnesota, known for Minnesota nice, allows carry without a permit-concealed or open-in certain instances. Be aware that the Minneapolis PD operate under their own rules. Carrying with a permit may get you hit with sticks and spread and cuffed.

This has nothing to do with the original post which regarded carrying concealed in a vehicle without your permit.

If you get pulled over in NY with a gun and no ID.... Good Luck.

They will take your gun. YOU have to get it back. They can detain or arrest you which will get your car towed. Un screw your self is a good way to put it.

I got in a motorcycle accident. I asked the officer present to take my handgun before they loaded me in the ambulance. He did. After I got out of the hospital, I went to the police station, showed them my permit and got my gun back with a "Good Luck".