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  #51  
Old 04-01-2014, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSDeputy View Post
I hate open carry, unless it is a peace officer with a badge displayed. Open carry in our state does not require the background check and safety class, with range, that our concealed carry permits do. Open carry scares the hell out of citizens. If they allow it they should change the concealed carry permit, to a carry permit, and require the same things a concealed carry permit now requires to carry openly. I see no reason why a citizen needs to carry a firearm openly, except on their own property.


Oh yeah, let's jest let the anointed ones open carry....

I've been in Law Enforcement on and off for forty years and I have found 'We are all citizens'.

This lit'l thing of 'Us' and 'them' is just plain ol BS.

Every man ought to be able to cover the ground he stands on, at his own discretion.

I carry open and concealed carry, sometimes at the same time.

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"unless it is a peace officer with a badge displayed."
One's profession Does Not make one superior in stature to any other man.
To think this....Is just an elitist attitude at it worse, and a purty conceded one at best.


That is all.


.
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  #52  
Old 04-01-2014, 07:59 AM
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THIS is precisely why they are called RIGHTS and not NEEDS/Desires. I don't think some should be ALLOWED to procreate and that's not even in the Constitution
Quote:
Originally Posted by KSDeputy View Post
I hate open carry,
I see no reason why a citizen needs

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  #53  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
One can have their license revoked if a concealed gun is exposed.
You might have known that, but couldn't pass up an opportunity to be a wise guy.
In Texas, yes. Exactly why the right to carry, open or concealed, should be your choice, not mandated. It says the "right to keep and bear arms", not the "right to keep and bear concealed". Once we start limiting our rights, it gets easier and easier to limit them even further.
  #54  
Old 04-01-2014, 09:48 AM
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I believe they even provide more cover (PUN intended) as they changed the criteria to "intent" for the infraction. Can't find the article but I'm pretty sure that's what I read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zonker5 View Post
Last session of the Legislature this was changed so that an accidental exposure of a gun like your shirt riding up is not a violation.
  #55  
Old 04-01-2014, 10:56 AM
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Open carry is fine, but there are enough squirrely ninja wannabes around to make this a hard sell in most places.

Last edited by scattershot; 04-01-2014 at 07:32 PM.
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  #56  
Old 04-01-2014, 02:48 PM
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SB 299 by Sen. Craig Estes/Rep. Kenneth Sheets provides language to clarify the unintentional display of a firearm by a concealed handgun licensee. The language changed from “failure to conceal” to “intentional display of a weapon in a public place” when force or deadly force is not authorized. Passed and Signed by Governor Perry
Effective 9/1/2013
Know the Law
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  #57  
Old 04-07-2014, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamMeow View Post
Sorry for your loss, also for being inconvienced.
Good topic, good vent.
Hope you have/had a safe trip home.
"Hook 'em"
Thank you. We had a long day on the road but made it home safely. We left the house before 0600, got home after 1900.
"Go, 'Pokes!"

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  #58  
Old 04-07-2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith View Post
I don't do IWB. My attendance was last-minute, so I didn't dig out my pocket holster. Didn't feel like wearing my uniform and duty belt, either. So, sue me.

ECS
So, in effect, it's all on you because you didn't want to be inconvenienced. Don't blame Texas, or any other state. We may have some catching up to do regarding ease of getting our permits, etc, but I think most of us would not support an open carry law, especially just for the convenience of outsiders.

So, sue us.
  #59  
Old 04-07-2014, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
The only reason I would want open carry is to protect me in case I accidentally exposed my gun that is supposed to be concealed.
As of January 1 of this year, accidental exposure of your gun is not an issue. The law has changed in Texas. We don't have to worry about 'printing' or accidentally revealing a gun but if we reach for something on the top shelf at the grocery store, or having our shirt tail fly up in the wind. So this argument has no bearing on the open carry debate.
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  #60  
Old 04-07-2014, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph7 View Post
One can have their license revoked if a concealed gun is exposed.
You might have known that, but couldn't pass up an opportunity to be a wise guy.
Again, not true. You need to keep up with current Texas law if you're going to carry here.

Don't confuse accidentally exposing to "brandishing." Totally different.
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  #61  
Old 04-07-2014, 03:17 PM
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We need to look at the big picture. This in not about an "outsider" being inconvenienced, its about moving forward on our Second Amendment rights. Fact is we are 1 of only 6 remaining states NOT to have some form of open carry. In todays world, if your're not moving forward on gun rights, your moving backwards. The gun grabbers arent sitting still, they're doing everthing they can to restrict those rights with their opinions of whats right, and best and how much for each of us. Any restriction is a win for them. Of course Texas shouldnt do it just to catch up with other states, it should do it because its the right thing to do. Give all law abiding citizens their Constitutional right to carry any way they please, and leave it up to the individual to make that decision. Here's a link to an informative site if anyone is interested.

Open Carry | OpenCarry.org
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  #62  
Old 04-07-2014, 07:02 PM
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Actually... A TX State senate committee was supposed to be discussing recommendations on removing barriers in Texas to the exercise of our 2A rights. The recommendations include open carry legislation, which they're expecting to be file in 2015.
  #63  
Old 04-09-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxie View Post
I'm a Texan. We don't need to catch up to anybody, Mr. Elm Creek Smith. Most Texans prefer concealed carry and we are quite happy with the law the way it is.
Maybe most, but not all.

I would very much like for Texas to have open carry...as long as it didn't compromise concealed carry as it seems to have in some states (which really makes no sense.) I don't know that I would carry openly, but I'd like to make that decision myself, and not have someone make it for me. Mainly, though, I'd rather an accidental glimpse of my CCW not to be an issue.
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  #64  
Old 04-09-2014, 03:02 PM
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An accidental exposure, printing, etc is no longer an issue with the new laws that went into effect January 1. As long as you are not brandishing (intentionally displaying in a threatening manner) it's no problem any more.
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  #65  
Old 04-09-2014, 05:04 PM
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as I understand things, step 1 is to revise the concealed carry law to allow permit holders open carry. Step 2 will be open carry. The rationale is that step 1 is a change to the current law and step 2 is a change to the State Constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobzGuns View Post
Actually... A TX State senate committee was supposed to be discussing recommendations on removing barriers in Texas to the exercise of our 2A rights. The recommendations include open carry legislation, which they're expecting to be file in 2015.
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSDeputy View Post
I hate open carry, unless it is a peace officer with a badge displayed. Open carry in our state does not require the background check and safety class, with range, that our concealed carry permits do. Open carry scares the hell out of citizens. If they allow it they should change the concealed carry permit, to a carry permit, and require the same things a concealed carry permit now requires to carry openly. I see no reason why a citizen needs to carry a firearm openly, except on their own property.
And anti gunners see no reason why a citizen needs to carry a firearm. Again, why can't we all just support our right to carry, period. Then you choose what is right for you. BTW, my open carrying has never scared anyone. The majority never even notice. Maybe because not many criminals carry openly, but concealed?
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC View Post
I don't know that I would carry openly, but I'd like to make that decision myself, and not have someone make it for me.
What a great post! YES, you decide what's best for you and then support other's right to carry in the manner that's right for them!
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangman View Post
We need to look at the big picture. This in not about an "outsider" being inconvenienced, its about moving forward on our Second Amendment rights. Fact is we are 1 of only 6 remaining states NOT to have some form of open carry. In todays world, if your're not moving forward on gun rights, your moving backwards. The gun grabbers arent sitting still, they're doing everthing they can to restrict those rights with their opinions of whats right, and best and how much for each of us. Any restriction is a win for them. Of course Texas shouldnt do it just to catch up with other states, it should do it because its the right thing to do. Give all law abiding citizens their Constitutional right to carry any way they please, and leave it up to the individual to make that decision. Here's a link to an informative site if anyone is interested.

Open Carry | OpenCarry.org
Another great post! YES, let's not help the anti gunners restrict our rights! That's what we do when we say, " you shouldn't carry that way; you should carry the way I like." We sometimes cut our own throats.
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  #69  
Old 04-10-2014, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Kensterfly View Post
So, in effect, it's all on you because you didn't want to be inconvenienced.
That's right, but you forgot the word unnecessarily as in "...unnecessarily inconvenienced."

Quote:
Don't blame Texas, or any other state. We may have some catching up to do regarding ease of getting our permits, etc, but I think most of us would not support an open carry law,...
I don't blame Texas; I blame the people who sit around smugly proclaiming that their way is best and that "...most of..." them "...would not support an open carry law." Our gun rights are in peril because people are satisfied with the way things are, even if the way things are is not consistent with the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.

Quote:
...especially just for the convenience of outsiders.
How very parochial of you. I suppose you're going to claim that the convenience of other Texans who may disagree with you is unimportant as well.

Quote:
So, sue us.
Nope. I'm not a Liberal Democrat.

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Last edited by elm_creek_smith; 04-10-2014 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangman View Post
This in not about an "outsider" being inconvenienced, its about moving forward on our Second Amendment rights.
Exactly. If inconveniencing an "outsider" is all right, then we would have no business protesting the restrictive, rights-denying gun laws in states like New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland, Rhode Island, or California. We should keep our mouths shut because "...most of..." their residents wouldn't support changing those laws.

In the meantime, if I come across a state or municipality that is infringing on my 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms, I'm going to call it out. In Oklahoma, we fought to get licensed concealed carry; we fought to get open carry added to our handgun licenses; we fought to get unlicensed carry in vehicles; and we continue to fight to get Constitutional carry. We give full faith and credit to handgun licenses issued by other states, even when they don't honor ours, and we honor Constitutional carry for the residents of those states that have it.

ECS
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:41 PM
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I live here and would point out that I have seen plainclothes LEO 'open carry'. Not sure if they have their badges visible or not. But I guarantee you in certain cities around here they do it. I could point you to some restaurants behind a local police station that, around lunchtime - you can't miss it. I have no idea if it is state or department/city rules.
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  #72  
Old 04-11-2014, 12:53 PM
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Out of sight = Out of mind.

I'd rather them conceal carry. At least then they wont be bothered by some tard calling the police because "He's got a gun!!!!!!".

The criminals are already concealing. Its better the good guys are concealing. So this way they arent giving away their position to the bad guys.
  #73  
Old 04-11-2014, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith View Post
Had to go to Texas for a funeral yesterday. My J-frame was adequately concealed as long as I wore my jacket. (It was a graveside service, and it was in the 50's and windy.) My leather jacket was too heavy and hot once we got to the restaurant. Had to move stuff around to stay concealed. Texas needs open carry.

ECS
Your premise is incorrect. Brandishing is illegal, unintentional exposure is not illegal.
Texas doesn't need to catch up, people need to catch up with Texas law when they're here.
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  #74  
Old 04-11-2014, 05:27 PM
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Aloha,

To the OP
You're Welcome to come to Hawaii
Just leave your guns at home.
Hawaii Does NOT HONOR any CCW from Any where.
You should be Thankful for what you have and that Texas will let you carry concealed at all.

None of the Chiefs of Police in Hawaii issues any CCW.
Altho Hawaii is a MAY issue state, in reality, it is a NO ISSUE state.
Hopefully, because of what happened in the 9th Circuit Court recently things will change,
but not in the near future.
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  #75  
Old 04-12-2014, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl View Post
Oh yeah, let's jest let the anointed ones open carry....

I've been in Law Enforcement on and off for forty years and I have found 'We are all citizens'.

This lit'l thing of 'Us' and 'them' is just plain ol BS.

Every man ought to be able to cover the ground he stands on, at his own discretion.

I carry open and concealed carry, sometimes at the same time.


One's profession Does Not make one superior in stature to any other man.
To think this....Is just an elitist attitude at it worse, and a purty conceded one at best.


That is all.


.
AMEN.
Once again, I concur with my friend Dave, 'cause it's common sense he's talkin'.
.
.
.

NOW, on a much less serious note:

What we can learn from this thread is that when we start a rant, at least base it on existing law, instead of a misunderstanding of the law.
Drawing and brandishing from open carry is the same as drawing and brandishing from concealed...so what's the real beef?
(A) College rivalry
or
(B) Oklahoma (just last year) passed a law to allow open carry?

Being a native of Baja Oklahoma, I appreciate O.K.s guidance for our backward little ol' province that y'all liberated from Mexico.
We bow to your independent nature, and hope to see y'all in Tulsa.
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:48 AM
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My post on open carry really stirred up a hornets nest. I added some information to it that explains the unique situation we now have in our state, which I hope will clarify it. Thank you.
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSDeputy View Post
My post on open carry really stirred up a hornets nest. I added some information to it that explains the unique situation we now have in our state, which I hope will clarify it. Thank you.
Sir,

I'm not trying to diminish your 30 years of LE experience, but you do realize that your edited statement implies that open carriers are no different than criminals, right?

The only time I open carry is when I'm riding my bicycle out in the country. I do not care if well mannered, law abiding people are openly carrying in public with a proper retention holster. I do not feel threatened by them.

It's arguable that open carriers of the "in your face" variety pose a public nuisance, but I could not in good conscience equate ALL open carriers with the criminal element simply because of a minority of "bad apples."
  #78  
Old 06-21-2014, 01:29 PM
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In urban/suburban areas, open carry is for attention seeking wimps. Look at me! I must be a Real Man because I have a gun!
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elm_creek_smith View Post
Had to go to Texas for a funeral yesterday. My J-frame was adequately concealed as long as I wore my jacket. (It was a graveside service, and it was in the 50's and windy.) My leather jacket was too heavy and hot once we got to the restaurant. Had to move stuff around to stay concealed. Texas needs open carry.

ECS
Sorry, but that J frame should have been in a pocket holster from the get-go, and if it had been, no coat would have been required in the first place.
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSW View Post
In urban/suburban areas, open carry is for attention seeking wimps. Look at me! I must be a Real Man because I have a gun!
Is there a scientific study that backs this up, or is this your opinion?




Patrick
  #81  
Old 06-21-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
Sorry, but that J frame should have been in a pocket holster from the get-go, and if it had been, no coat would have been required in the first place.
Here's an idea - Sit in your car wearing a seatbelt. Now, draw your J-frame from your pocket holster. I'm sure the threat will wait.

Sent from my little slice of Heaven.
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5BeansintheWheel View Post
Is there a scientific study that backs this up, or is this your opinion?




Patrick
They're just repeating what they heard from the VPC, Brady Campaign, NRA and other anti-gun organizations.
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Old 06-21-2014, 01:58 PM
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I live in Arizona where open carry is quite common. However, it does put people off and most prefer concealed carry. I only open carry in rural areas. I conceal carry in the city. I don't want people running the other way when they see me coming. I've never hear of open carry causing problems though. If you are stopped by a law enforcement officer here, they may ask to take control of your weapon during the stop. If you are carrying concealed and they ask if you have a weapon, you are required to answer truthfully. They will return it to you (if appropriate) when business is concluded. They understand that it's legal and I'd say most are OK with it. The general population though has misconceptions and misinformation on this topic that run from mild to wild. There's usually no point in frightening them.
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Old 06-21-2014, 02:09 PM
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Cities shouldn't be able to make their own firearms laws in any case.
ECS
I disagree. I personally don't want the Feds, or even state government, sticking their collective noses into local city and county gun ordinances. They have their fingers in enough pies as it is.

What might be illegal in one state may be perfectly legal here where I live. Open carry is one of those things. I want to keep it that way.
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Old 06-21-2014, 03:06 PM
5BeansintheWheel 5BeansintheWheel is offline
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I disagree. I personally don't want the Feds, or even state government, sticking their collective noses into local city and county gun ordinances. They have their fingers in enough pies as it is.

What might be illegal in one state may be perfectly legal here where I live. Open carry is one of those things. I want to keep it that way.
This getting off topic, but I have to disagree with this. Pa passed the Uniform Firearms Act to prevent towns, cities and counties from passing their own laws. Philly got a few exceptions because of the city of first class status.

With out the UFA traveling across the state or even town to town would be a nightmare. I would be legal in one town and go 2 miles down the road and get arrested because of some absurd law.


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Old 06-21-2014, 03:17 PM
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Default Look AT ME!

It's all about the "look at me syndrome" which invariably can lead to a unneeded confrontation. In my opinion it also shows a lot of insecurity on the individuals part.
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:40 PM
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FYI…..KSDeputy……, you should be aware of this by now……and for those who are not……The state of Kansas becomes an open carry state……July 1, 2014.

Semper Fi!
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Old 06-22-2014, 12:53 PM
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It's all about the "look at me syndrome" which invariably can lead to a unneeded confrontation. In my opinion it also shows a lot of insecurity on the individuals part.
No, it's not, and, no, it doesn't. The only person who has ever confronted me over open carry was an anti-gun loon. Do you think she'd have confronted me had I been in uniform?

Your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's and is less important than the law. Don't bust my chops over legal activity.

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Old 06-22-2014, 01:50 PM
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I agree that open carry lends itself to more than its share of "look at me!" tough guy types...as do enormous biceps and Ford Shelbys. Those people get the reward that they apparently want. Looking ridiculous is still not against the law.
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Old 06-22-2014, 01:53 PM
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Here's an idea - Sit in your car wearing a seatbelt. Now, draw your J-frame from your pocket holster. I'm sure the threat will wait.

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I understood the OP to say he was STANDING out in the open at a funeral. Unless it was some sort of "drive-up" or "drive-thru" scenario, then drawing from a seated position in the car is not even part of this discussion.
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Old 06-22-2014, 01:57 PM
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Thumbs up Wow! Can of Beans Opened?

Allow me to join in to this Excellent Discussion?
First, and foremost, As a Native Texan and very Proud of it, The RIGHT to possess and carry a firearm is the right of every CITIZEN. Texas has chosen a path of moderation to this touchy subject! A lot of city folk move to the country and don't understand the ways of living in the country. When a person chooses to Open Carry or not, that should be their decision! Personally, I choose not to open carry for the reason of not drawing attention to myself. When I see a A4 (M16) hanging from a shoulder in a Downtown area, I've got to wonder about the person's decision making capability. Not saying they don't have the Right, but Rights have responsibilities that don't always get used wisely!
As a resident of New Mexico (an Open Carry state), It doesn't bother or surprise me when I see an open carried firearm. It is their right to do so!
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:28 PM
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I live in a state that allows open carry. I have friends who only carry this way. Here's an PA opened carry story.
My friend was in line at a Turkey Hill to pay for his gas. He was open carrying a full size 1911. There was a couple from out of state in front of him and a state trooper behind him.
The couple sees his gun and they start to talk to each other. They get very antimated. The women then says to the trooper, "OFFICER, THAT MAN HAS A GUN!" The trooper smiles at my friend and says "he sure does". End of encounter.
I mostly carry concealed, but it's nice to live in a place that gives you the option to open carry if you want to.
Now that is a classic. If I had been there, I would have bought the troopers gas for him. My son-in-law is a LEO and that sounds exactly like what he would have said. And he would have had a BIG smile on his face too.
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Old 06-22-2014, 02:50 PM
5BeansintheWheel 5BeansintheWheel is offline
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I agree that open carry lends itself to more than its share of "look at me!" tough guy types...as do enormous biceps and Ford Shelbys. Those people get the reward that they apparently want. Looking ridiculous is still not against the law.
Driving a Shelby makes a person look ridiculous? I was not aware of that, thank you. Ya never know what you will learn on the internet.

Do you have a link to the study that backs this up?

Maybe we can get a law passed to crush them.


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Old 06-22-2014, 04:01 PM
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I agree that open carry lends itself to more than its share of "look at me!" tough guy types...as do enormous biceps and Ford Shelbys. Those people get the reward that they apparently want. Looking ridiculous is still not against the law.
Are you saying it looks ridiculous to be physically fit, drive a super-nice car, or carry a gun in plain sight when it's perfectly legal to do so?

Seriously?
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:37 PM
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I find it amusing that an Okie with a burr under his saddle is telling Texicans how they should carry. Yeah, I've heard about the rivalry between the two states. Funny that the OP doesn't want anyone telling him how to carry, yet would make others follow his convictions. I'm personally happy to let the Texans decide how they want to carry, and from the posts they've made in this thread, they seem to be mostly happy with their current cc laws.

I've been a LEO for 27 years, and I never open carry when off duty, unless I'm hunting, hiking in the national forest, or checking fenceline on my own property or the private property of family or friends. While my state does allow open carry with restrictions on courthouses, school property, bars, etc. the only individuals I've encountered who have done so were from out of state. Not sure why they felt they needed to exercise that right, other than to draw attention to themselves. They did do that. Around these parts we call those types of folks "Attention Whores."
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:08 PM
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Are you saying it looks ridiculous to be physically fit, drive a super-nice car, or carry a gun in plain sight when it's perfectly legal to do so?

Seriously?
OK. You got me there. I failed to make my point. Having lived most of my life in an open carry state, I'm simply a little surprised that anyone in this forum would be against it, whether it's legal in their state or not, regardless of how its perceived. 'nuf said. There is no way of delineating "ridiculous". A Lou Ferrigno wannabe in a tank top would be much harder for me to look at that a guy carrying a 1911 on his hip. I'm out of this thread and at your mercy.
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Old 06-22-2014, 08:49 PM
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I understood the OP to say he was STANDING out in the open at a funeral. Unless it was some sort of "drive-up" or "drive-thru" scenario, then drawing from a seated position in the car is not even part of this discussion.
I AM the OP. If you were interested in discussion instead of trying to show how smart you are, you might have tumbled to that. How, exactly, do you think I got to a funeral in Texas from Oklahoma? I drove. The issue didn't come up at the funeral, but later when the mourners met at a restaurant.

I'm over it, but apparently you and others aren't. So,...

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Last edited by Dan M; 06-23-2014 at 05:32 AM. Reason: delete pic
  #98  
Old 06-22-2014, 10:18 PM
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I reckon we're about done here.
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