Dual carry or New York Reload

[Practical]

I wonder how much success people have in carrying two guns, whether as a New York Reload using two guns or carrying two identical guns?

I have tried it and found it only possible when YOUNG and THIN. Now that I am older and concave out rather than concave in, one gun is the best I can do.

Who has success carrying two guns and in particular how much success with two identical guns?

[ultra45]

With today's new improved ammo for the 380, carrying a NY reload is far easier than, say, a small 38 Spl revolver, like a M-36 or similar gun

[B3500]

I have successfully carried two a few times, but they were not identical in size. They were a compact double stack and a 380. The 380 is so small it is not much bigger than a spare magazine for the double stack and takes up very little room.

[Donn]

Everybody to their own poison. MHO, carrying one can be enough of a pain. One gun, one spare mag. If that's not enough, it just isn't my day.

[Mcwsky09]

Convex is the opposite of concave.

I'm thinking that a backup gun would be something smaller and maybe an ankle holster. But I think I would be more likely to carry a spare mag than a spare gun. I am not much into knives but have read lots of folks who carry a gun have a knife as well.

[federali]

I've only carried two guns on a handful of hairy assignments. The incidents in which LEOs saved the day with a second gun, for whatever reason, have indeed happened but should be considered extremely rare. But then, I know of two incidents in which LEOs paid with their lives after shooting their revolvers dry. I don't know of any incident in which a private citizen had to resort to a second gun.

As guns have gotten flatter and smaller, carrying a spare magazine that fits both guns has a lot to offer---one less major thing that can go wrong. If you really like the J-frame platform, a second gun would be a wise choice as few people would be able to reload under fire.

I might add that a second gun is more likely to be used following a stoppage of the primary arm than a situation in which a CCW ran out of ammo or was forcibly disarmed.

[jimmyj]

I found the best solution for me was a Glock M17 and 26 or M22/23 and a M27. The M26 and 27 accepts the magazines of the larger model.
Also tried a Glock M21 and Model 30 but the weight was a bit much.

[Arik]

I've carried 2 guns a few times. Maybe 2 or 3. But when I did I was in a very very bad area where I stood out like a flashing red light. On those few occasions my main handgun caliber started with 7.62 x39 and came in 30 round mags. The back up was a full size 9 or 45

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[Maze 686]

Yes, I carry two guns. I have no problem sticking a backup. 380 in my pocket.

As to why I carry it, if I need to pass it off to my wife, son, or friend. Plus there is always the possibility of a firearm stoppage from a squib or broken extractor, or firing pin.

[lowenguy]

I carry two; 1. J-Frame (Mod 49-2 or a Mod 42 Classic) and a Walther TPH 25 acp as back-up.....

[mark32812]

I watched the videos of shooters on the range doing a NY reload. Something about watching someone dropping a weapon like that makes my skin crawl.

[Double-O-Dave]

Practical:

I'm a big believer in the New York reload. My EDC consists of a Model 38-0 which has a nickeled cylinder (my version of the MSP - Michigan State Police - back-up gun) and a Model 638-1 (the Model 38-0 is on the top in my photo, the Model 638-1 is below it, on the left. The one on the right is a Model 649-0.) Both the Model 38 and Model 638 are identical in weight, and both have the same grips - Crimson Trace LG-405. I usually pocket carry using an Uncle Mike's #3, and a DeSantis Nemesis for pocket holsters. Generally, I'll carry one in my front pants pocket, and the other one in either a hip pocket, or a shoulder holster - either a Null or a Bianchi 9R. I also carry a Tuff Strip speedstrip as well, along with a small assisted opening pocket knife, and a small flashlight.

Regards,

Dave

[P&R Fan]

I almost always carry two.
I usually have my primary on my right hip. Either a K,L or N-Frame S&W revolver or a Glock 23.
In warm weather I carry a Glock 23 or 27 in my Kramer Confidant shirt holster. It is VERY comfortable.
My BUG is my M340PD in my left front pants pocket. Always carry a Bianchi Speed Strip in my right side pocket.

I worked a Bodyguard assignment in 2012 during the Iowa Caucuses for a Presidential candidate. Carried my Glock 23 on my right hip with a spare mag on my left. Had the Glock 27 in the Kramer shirt holster with another mag under my right arm. Had the M340PD in the left pocket, along with a couple of Speed Strips.
Also had an ASP baton and 4 or 5 knives in various places, along with a "Tactical" flashlight.

I felt ready for World War III.
Jim

[badge]

I once knew a lad who carried a Model 39 with ONE spare magazine. I teased him a bit regarding departmental policy and he had the same dopey response as so many before him. If I need more than this,... blah, blah, blah. A holdup alarm later with three perps and MANY rounds expended and he, along with a Sgt. were OUT of ammunition and SCREAMING for more. No spares carried either. Should you carry two weapons? That's up to you friend. I do, always. But, it is a personal decision and you may be a better Policeman than I or a better man. I do not seek trouble but sadly, trouble has a way of seeking folks out. That and ole' Mr. Murphy. That old guy can get into the darndest places and weapons. Just my thoughts.

[TexasArmed]

Originally Posted by P&R Fan

I almost always carry two.
I usually have my primary on my right hip. Either a K,L or N-Frame S&W revolver or a Glock 23.
In warm weather I carry a Glock 23 or 27 in my Kramer Confidant shirt holster. It is VERY comfortable.
My BUG is my M340PD in my left front pants pocket. Always carry a Bianchi Speed Strip in my right side pocket.

I worked a Bodyguard assignment in 2012 during the Iowa Caucuses for a Presidential candidate. Carried my Glock 23 on my right hip with a spare mag on my left. Had the Glock 27 in the Kramer shirt holster with another mag under my right arm. Had the M340PD in the left pocket, along with a couple of Speed Strips.
Also had an ASP baton and 4 or 5 knives in various places, along with a "Tactical" flashlight.

I felt ready for World War III.
Jim

I just cannot comfortably manage all that extra stuff, like that.
Besides knives are not covered in my state under a permit. There is a blade length. Now I could carry two 38's if that's a New York reload. But I carry one 38 special snubbie S&W airweight, in my pocket holster in my pocket. I carry the second revolver a CA 44 Special in a paddle holster. That
leaves me room for another pocket to carry a billfold. And a
shirt pocket to carry my 4 speed loaders. I don't have no more
room for pepper spray, knives, or mace. Oh and one more thing I never leave home without
my cell phone in case I am a victim.

[Protected One]

Originally Posted by Maze 686

Yes, I carry two guns. I have no problem sticking a backup. 380 in my pocket.

As to why I carry it, if I need to pass it off to my wife, son, or friend. Plus there is always the possibility of a firearm stoppage from a squib or broken extractor, or firing pin.

+1^^^^^^^^

[Old Unk]

in the olden days. '69 Mod 60,in homemade rough-out leather pocket square in RF, RR uniform pants or R jacket pockets. I had the hammer bobbed. Speedloaders somewhat better than drop boxes however NY reload had its fans when revolvers more or less ruled as duty weapons.

Best.

[Old cop]

I always carried a back-up on the job but in retirement, not so much. When we take a trip I usually carry an extra .38 in the car just in case. A speed strip is always with me however.

[badge 851]

I carry two J frames & two reloads every waking moment of the day. I'm 6'2", 230#, & round; concealing these two guns is no problem.

[Frizzman]

In my working days, I always carried a lightweight .38 snub in an ankle holster. I did that no matter what else was my primary arm. I found that the ankle holster was easier to draw from in a descrete fashion while seated in a car if needed. These days, I still regularly carry my bobbed hammer 337ti on the ankle and my 640-1 IWB...I've never been fond of pocket carry since I like to have ready access using either hand sitting or standing...Do I NEED a second revolver? Probably not but I don't like to bet staying above ground on "probably"...I knew another cop who was taken hostage and eventually killed with his own revolver. THAT made a lasting impression on a young rookie.

[GerSan69]

Two-a-day here also. I pocket either my little Taurus .380 or one of my Model 49s or the 649. Currently, the "main" firearm is my 3913 with 2 spare mags.
IMHO unless you're carrying two smaller guns, like a pair of Chiefs, pair of Shields, etc., the weight of two heavier guns (even slightly more heavy than a Chief) can wear you down and cause you to seek a lighter combo. Only the most dedicated carry a pound or two on each side willingly.

[Arik]

Dual carry



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[66snub]

The new generation of 380's make it so easy to carry a second gun, you almost don't have an excuse not to. That said, I usually just opt to carry reloads as opposed to more guns.

On duty, I do carry multiple guns. I have a M37 in an Uncle Mike's sidekick holster inside my vest straps and a Shield in 9mm in an identical holster on the opposite side. You never know which hand will be free or usable when you need to draw that second gun.

[twobit601]

I think Josey Wales in one scene carried four cap and ball revolvers.

I sometimes carry two handguns. When traveling, the vehicle has a few in it. When I used to work patrol I always wore a PPK as backup. Ranch truck usually has a Keltec sub 2000 in a laptop case. One pant pocket always has a NAA mini-mag revolver in it.

[Arik]

What would "the taxi driver" be considered?

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[br25004x4]

Seems I've heard somewhere two is one, one is none. I have carried two sometimes recently. Wilson compact .45 and a Sig P938 9mm 2 spare magazines for each. I'm still trying to find the right carry method for the Sig currently it's either pocket or ankle. Not sure I like either choice. May try off side appendix carry for the Sig next.

[MrTrolleyguy]

Lately I usually carry two. A model 649 in a Don Hume IWB and a G42 in the front pants pocket.

I noticed that I feel more secure with the extra IWB .38

It always reduces my stress level to carry two.

I haven't found a comfortable way to carry my G26. More firepower but the extra weight is so noticeable in pocket.

BTW br25004x4 , The way I heard it was, "one is none, two is one and three is better"

[forrestinmathews]

I have recently been enjoying a pair of G29's reloading to 15 round magazines. I have a pair of regular magazines and a pair of Pearce grips. Not the smallest of guns, but I like them. I use the flush mags for pocket carry and the Pearce for IWB. Previously I ran a .45 on the hip and a .357 in the pocket. Now one caliber does the job and the ammunition supply is universal.

[VictorLouis]

Pair of 12s as of late, one IWB, and one off-hand pocket. Works best with the fit of, and larger pockets of, Dockers type slacks rather than jeans. But, either way is workable. Other front pocket is the C2, a Sabre O/C, and a one-hand opening knife clipped on.

With a fat-stack 9mm, a j-frame will do as the back-up.

Originally Posted by TexasArmed

I just cannot comfortably manage all that extra stuff, like that.....
Oh and one more thing I never leave home without
my cell phone in case I am a victim.

I'm 6', currently over 300lbs right now, w/accute Dunlop condition. You CAN DO it, you just have to try it out, and you'll find it's not that difficult. I absolutely loathe the idea of going hands-ON with an attacker, if it's all avoidable, that's why I am a firm beliver in the two types of intermediate force.

[Shorty 45 MK2]

I carry two, a 642 week side and a Shorty 45 MK2 strong side, sometimes a G***k 19.

Carry a spare mag or two for the Shorty or G19 and a speed strip or a speed strip and a speed loader for the 642.

The 642 acts as a alternate gun as much as a BUG/NY reload, since one hand might not be able to reach the handgun on its side.

I live out in the country and police response time is about 30mins. so that's part of the reason for the extras, plus I'm normally around a few people who either have a CHP, but don't carry "unless they think they'll need it" or they are proficient in the use for handguns, but are under 21 so they can't have a CHP,
so I can arm them if the situation allows.

Don't feel naked with just the 642 and a speed loader either, but I prefer more.

Just my two cents, YMMV.

[haywood]

I carry Two Snubs all day every day. I also carry at least Two speed loaders.

[Practical]

I am not LEO, and have only carried two guns when travelling around the state and found myself carrying my wife's token gun.

It turned out over the last 20 years she is not opposed to guns but is one of those "I will do what you like" to please you wives. However, I have to return the favor and go to or tolerate a lot of sewing shop stops.

I was quite happy with a 10 or 15 shot Glock, but now that NY is restricting us to 7 rounds, the idea of 2 J-frames is appealing.

I don't like the extra weight, but going from 15 to 10 now to 7 rounds makes it seem all the more practical to have more than one gun and a few magazines.

[Buford57]

Originally Posted by Frizzman

In my working days, I always carried a lightweight .38 snub in an ankle holster. I did that no matter what else was my primary arm. I found that the ankle holster was easier to draw from in a descrete fashion while seated in a car if needed. These days, I still regularly carry my bobbed hammer 337ti on the ankle and my 640-1 IWB...I've never been fond of pocket carry since I like to have ready access using either hand sitting or standing...Do I NEED a second revolver? Probably not but I don't like to bet staying above ground on "probably"...I knew another cop who was taken hostage and eventually killed with his own revolver. THAT made a lasting impression on a young rookie.

Sounds familiar. My coworker survived being disarmed, but only through dumb luck. That was when an "onion field" .22 mag derringer in the second sap pocket joined the Cobra on my ankle. Today I don't go looking for trouble and am usually satisfied with a 642 and a speed strip, although there is an edged weapon on me almost always.

[forrestinmathews]

For you twin J frame guys, check out Bell Charter Oak Holsters. He's a forum guy and makes a nice looking twin holster for them.

Full disclosure: I don't know him or own any of his products, yet. I simply made an inquiry and he responded promptly and politely.

ETA: It's actually called the New York Reload and has models for snubs and autos.

[LimaCharlie]

I am old, retired, overweight, and opinionated. I carry a 5" 1911 and a spare magazine on my belt in either .45 ACP or 10mm. I also pocket carry either a Sig P938 9mm or a Springfield Armory XDs-45 .45 ACP with a spare magazine as a BUG. They go on when I get dressed and go on the nightstand when I go to bed.

When I spend time in remote rural areas, I often swap the 1911 and spare magazine for a Glock G20 SF 10mm or an FNH FNX-45 Tactical .45 ACP and two spare fifteen round magazines. When I spend time in wilderness areas with black bear, I swap the 1911 for a 4" S&W 29-2 .44 magnum and two speed loaders. One of the BUGs and a spare magazine is always in my pocket when I am dressed.

[Brian41]

I carry a 37 in my pocket and one reload. When I go to the city I'll carry that still and maybe a 1911 and two spare mags. I don't do that often though.

[BAM-BAM]

Broke out the 337PD and Safariland speed loader today for the first time since last summer......

For me 85% of the time ....just one gun..... 3913/14 ...with 1-2 spare mags, phone, small light and lock-blade pocket knife (read "tool").........

10-15% of the time I might bump up to a PC 6906 (13rds) or Compact Beretta 92(14rds)........with 1 or 2 full size (15-17rds) mags........


if I think I'm going to need 2 guns I....1) stay home or 2) go to a rifle.......LOL


I know that after 50 years of shooting......

I'm not going to just drop the first gun on the ground and grab the second........my reflex will be to holster the first gun........ so I might as well just reload my primary........

If I was in Iraqi, Detroit or on the Border. ........ maybe....... but I don't train that way.....

does anyone actually "train" to drop their primary and grab the "New York reload"??" Strong hand or weak??????

[BAM-BAM]

I think I killed this thread with my question......................

[arjay]

I think you did too

[snubbyfan]

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

Broke out the 337PD and Safariland speed loader today for the first time since last summer......

For me 85% of the time ....just one gun..... 3913/14 ...with 1-2 spare mags, phone, small light and lock-blade pocket knife (read "tool").........

10-15% of the time I might bump up to a PC 6906 (13rds) or Compact Beretta 92(14rds)........with 1 or 2 full size (15-17rds) mags........


if I think I'm going to need 2 guns I....1) stay home or 2) go to a rifle.......LOL


I know that after 50 years of shooting......

I'm not going to just drop the first gun on the ground and grab the second........my reflex will be to holster the first gun........ so I might as well just reload my primary........

If I was in Iraqi, Detroit or on the Border. ........ maybe....... but I don't train that way.....

does anyone actually "train" to drop their primary and grab the "New York reload"??" Strong hand or weak??????

I've trained with a M66 on my right hip and my 442 in my left front pocket. I'd draw and fire the M66 with a 2 handed isosceles hold. When it runs dry, I hold it against my chest with my right hand, draw my 442 with my left hand and fire it one handed with my left hand. If I gotta reload after that then I'm in some serious trouble.
I generally don't carry that way and I don't intend to ever go anywhere I'll need to but it's nice to know that I can if needed.

[Shorty 45 MK2]

Yes, I do train to draw my BUG sometimes, other times I just reload, since I carry both a BUG and a reload I practice both.

[petepeterson]

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

I think I killed this thread with my question......................

It's a great question, and I'm pretty sure the general answer is "no."

I don't even like dumping mags on the ground...

[Rpg]

A few thoughts about this topic:

I admit that I'm old school.

If you aren't a LEO, carrying two firearms is much more trouble than its worth.

If a civilian needs more than one, the civilian is likely either looking for a fight ,his skill is insdequate or his judgement is questionable.


Aside from the hassle of packing two firearms on your person (just because it's possible, doesn't make it practical or a good idea), it suggests that you are either looking for trouble or you aren't competent enough with a firearm to be trusted carrying in the first place.

If you can't get it done with one handgun, you need much more than another handgun: something like a fire squad.

Much more competence with what you carry, or a more effective handgun, is in order.

Imagine how the authorities, not to mention the press, would react to 'two gun Jake' in a sd shooting:

'this guy was lookng for a fight'.

I'd hate to have to defend that in court.

You'd be portrayed as a nut looking for an excuse to shoot lots of people.

My view may not be popular for folks on this thread, but I think it's reality.

Bam Bam said this more gently, so did Old Cop.

Contemporary firearms manufacturers want to sell as many firearms as they can and will promote any idea that will increase sales.

Buy as many as you want, but don't imagine that packing them all at once is a good idea.

Carry a firearm you can hit with, quickly and with sufficent impact to end the fight.

Note: having another forearm in your vehicle is a different deal altogether: my comments refer to carrying two firearms on your person.

Just my opinion, of course.

[Model 1955]

I carry two. The second is my double barrel 38 Special.

[The Big D]

Just a bit of thread drift...but I have never carried two (2) handguns and simply cannot envision a scenario(s) that would require that I do so.

Please be aware that my CCW experience includes 30.5 years as a LEO. That vast majority of that time was spent living and working in big cities including Boston, New York City, and DC.

Be safe.

PS:

Some note reluctance to drop a magazine at the range. You would fail LEO firearms training with that mindset.

[BAM-BAM]

Glad this thread got it's second wind.......

Big D posted while I was writing.... so let me add.... I've been concealed carrying for about 35 years; daily since the early 1980s in rural areas and large cities.

When I see one of these threads on carrying 2 or more guns...... I always think of the "Gaylord?" middle of the back double holster for 2 36s or 2" 10s.

It makes sense to me ....if I was a cop in NY in the 50s-60s ...limited to a 5-6 shot revolver..... no speed loaders ..... your extra ammo in belt loops, dump pouch or loose in a pocket. I'd want to be able to just grab a second gun..vs. a 30 second to 1 min reload.

Today as a civilian living in a comfortable "safe" suburb of Pittsburgh.... or at the cabin in the southern Allegheny's.......one gun with a least one reload.......16 rounds with the 3913....18 rounds (2 speedloaders and/or speedstrips) with my 3" 66...31rounds with the Beretta 92 I feel comfortable.......two extra mags. makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

LOL my philosophy is : the first mag is for self defense the second is there to cover my retreat...

I own and have carried a small .32, .380 or .38.......digging them out of my jeans is a slow process....the only way pocket carry works for me is in my cargo shorts..... on hot muggy summer days.

I concluded years ago that I could reload/clear most malfunctions faster than trying to dig out a less effective gun from my pocket.

For those who do carry 2 I wish you well..... and can only conclude you must have extra pockets in your pants and/or lots of extra room inside your waistbands........because even if I wanted to carry 2 I'm not sure where I'd put it.....LOL because when I add my wallet, keys and money clip to my 3913, extra mag. (s), light and pocket knife .....I have no room left for a second gun.......I would need a fanny pack, Photo vest or "Man bag"!!!!! And according to forum legend 2 of those options will label you as the "shoot me first" target...... the third would get me unwanted attention from "metrosexuals"

As to my original question ......how do you train to carry and use the second gun?

[getoff]

my edc kit is usually a G17 with a spare Aredondo extended mag, and my lcp front pocket with a spare mag off hand side front pocket. on my belt. i also carry an esee izula fixed blade. when i'm not at "work" i carry an old model 37 with a factory bob in my front pocket, my trusty old 442 in a belt slide, same knife and 2 speed strips. one strip in a belt holder, the other in a cargo pocket. it may sound a bit kooky. i may be out shot, but never out gunned. you may have a failure or malfunction, or the need to arm someone else for help. its also nice to have a couple levels of force for options... just my 2 cents worth.

[BAM-BAM]

Rereading the thread....... see 3 trains of thought emerging......I think>>LOL

1) one gun is enough (almost all carry at least one reload)

2)2 guns with the second being a "reload".....if the first goes dry

3) 2 guns with the second being a "back up" for the primary and it's reload.

So far I think only Snubbyfan....... responded to my question; are you going to "drop" your primary gun when you grab the second....... how do you train?

My question relates to the old stories of police officers dumping their empty brass into their hand and putting it into their pocket .....then reloading .....during qualification....... and then doing the same in a real shoot out...... and getting shot/killed.

[Maze 686]

I carry two guns and gave my reasoning why. If you are involved in a shooting and you have two guns on you it has nothing to do with with the justification on your use of force.

No man or woman can determine when they get a squib from factory ammo, or when their firing pin / striker is going to break, or when they are going to drop their one gun after being shot. I won't even get into weapon retention and fighting for your life when someone has grabbed onto your one and only gun.

I can think of many reasons to carry a second gun and everyone of them is an asset. Not one reason not to carry one, including comfort.

[Maze 686]

As to dropping your handgun. No I have never trained to drop it. I have pulled to my chest to simulate an injury to my hand or arm and draw my second gun.

When I am working I carry a Glock 27 IWB on my support side under my external body armor. Everyday carry is a Sig 238 in support side pocket. Plus my main gun.