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03-27-2014, 05:36 PM
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Put concealed carry on driver's license?
Here in CA, we have several endorsements for our driver's licenses. There's A,B and C class depending on the type/size of vehicle you drive and then there's M for motorcycle. We also have a tag for organ donor.
Wouldn't it be easier to just include the concealed carry license on there as well?
What do you guys think?
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03-27-2014, 05:42 PM
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Attachment 148020 Sounds like a good idea to me!!
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03-27-2014, 05:55 PM
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While convenient at first blush it has a few liabilities. If your CC is lapsed or revoked and the endorsement remains on your DL, there's a fair chance of you being made to explain things with answers they won't accept.
amongst the unwashed masses, it's not uncommon to have to use your DL as ID when using credit cards and purchasing certain things.
You might not necessarily want to give them any indications beyond name rank and number.
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03-27-2014, 06:13 PM
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That would be too easy and logical solution therefore it is impossible to do it by government.
Also it will help in national reciprocity issue...
But again, too simple, therefore impossible!
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03-27-2014, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
If your CC is lapsed or revoked and the endorsement remains on your DL, there's a fair chance of you being made to explain things with answers they won't accept.
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I guess I don't follow this very well. First, to work at all, the driver's license renewal and concealed carry renewal would have to coincide. So, I think this is a moot point.
However, your second point about having to show your driver's license for identification makes sense. Though, as long as the clerk doesn't start bouncing up and down screaming that you have a concealed license, I don't really think it would be an issue. Still, there is a reason we conceal. So, that may be the defining reason against it.
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03-27-2014, 06:57 PM
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Almost anything would be better than the flimsy sheet of paper they issue now, but I don't think tying it onto your DL is a good idea for reasons stated already.
But if Peruta stands and CCW becomes "Shall Issue" CA really needs to go to a card of some sort. For those out of state who have no idea what we're talking about - the CA CCW permit is a smallish sheet of paper with your info, issuing agency & permitted weapons on the front and (in some counties) a rubber stamped list of "reasonable restrictions" on the back. It is nothing like a normal DL or credit card type thing like my FL license.
Here is the back of a couple of my old CA CCW and you can see how worn they got...
Any other states NOT have a real card?
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03-27-2014, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
Here in CA, we have several endorsements for our driver's licenses. There's A,B and C class depending on the type/size of vehicle you drive and then there's M for motorcycle. We also have a tag for organ donor.
Wouldn't it be easier to just include the concealed carry license on there as well?
What do you guys think?
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Logistical nightmare.
It would transfer the issuance to a single state agency instead of the 58 counties and who knows how many city PD's are issuing them. (There were something like 405 incorporated cities when I checked a few years ago, but obviously not all of those even maintain their own PD's, and even among those that have PD's it's not uncommon to pass along the CCW licensing responsibility to the Sheriff.)
How would you add the additional language needed to list concealable firearms, let alone the long list of added restrictions sometimes added by different issuing authorities?
Besides, could you imagine the screaming from some licensees about having their CCW license status and firearms displayed for anyone to see when they had to routinely display their CDL as identification?
Even the standard DOJ CCW license form gets expanded and added to by an occasional agency.
A plastic CCW license would be nice, as some of the plain paper/card stock can quickly get worn. I don't known how many agencies even issue laminated cards, for that matter.
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03-27-2014, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
While convenient at first blush it has a few liabilities. If your CC is lapsed or revoked and the endorsement remains on your DL, there's a fair chance of you being made to explain things with answers they won't accept.
amongst the unwashed masses, it's not uncommon to have to use your DL as ID when using credit cards and purchasing certain things.
You might not necessarily want to give them any indications beyond name rank and number.
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Good points.
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03-27-2014, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
A plastic CCW license would be nice, as some of the plain paper/card stock can quickly get worn. I don't known how many agencies even issue laminated cards, for that matter.
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Ours here in Florida look exactly like the driver's licenses, i.e., hard plastic picture ID.
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03-27-2014, 08:39 PM
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Missouri used to offer two options.
1. CCW at the top of your DL
2. Get a non-driver state ID
If it's on your license, the endorsement is there for all to see when you present your ID for purchases etc...
After Sandy Hook, ATF wanted to reconcile CCWs with mentally ill people, so they requested the records of all CCW holders. Unfortunately, the DMV agreed and placed a spreadsheet of all CCW holders names, addresses and SS#'s on a disc (with the password written on the front) in an envelope and dropped it in the mail. This created a massive uproar in Missouri and resulted in all CCWs going directly through the local Sheriff's office. The new permits now look like a laminated business card and has nothing to do with the DMV.
To answer your question, I dislike having it on my ID since it is used for nearly everything... Except voting (different conversation)
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03-27-2014, 09:55 PM
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I am from Missouri also. I renewed just before the change, so I still have the DMV Non-Drivers License Card.
We have a Law in Missouri not to share the CCW information with the Fed's. The head of the DMV and probably the Highway Patrol should have went to jail or at the least been Fired over shareing that information. I am sure our DemocRAT Governor probably helped them stay out of Hot Water.
Bob
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03-27-2014, 09:57 PM
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Our Kentucky CCW license (I don't like the term "permit") is a plastic photo-ID card. I'm amazed to hear that they are only pieces of paper in some areas.
I think the problems of combining the licenses has vastly more drawbacks than advantages.
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03-27-2014, 10:05 PM
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IMO, the fewer people that know my business the better.
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03-27-2014, 10:08 PM
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I don't believe I want to give D M V any more authority than they already have.
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03-27-2014, 10:51 PM
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When I worked out of our hiring hall, I would have many different employers through the year. (14 was the most) every contractor made a copy of my DL and kept it for their records. I had mine put on a state ID.
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03-28-2014, 06:49 AM
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It's already included on driver's license info here in Michigan, but we're still required to have a separate CPL.
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03-28-2014, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
However your second point about having to show your driver's license for identification makes sense. Though, as long as the clerk doesn't start bouncing up and down screaming that you have a concealed license, I don't really think it would be an issue. Still, there is a reason we conceal. So, that may be the defining reason against it.
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I think this IS the defining reason against it - at least for me. Do you want to trust every cashier/bank teller/bartender/clerk/FedEx Driver etc... to keep your secret? I don't.
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03-28-2014, 07:48 AM
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I have always said as Ras' original post...put a barcode into everyone's forehead at birth. This serves as their SS number, Drivers License when old enough, Credit and Debit to a single account with the limits set based on their income. Gun Rights, permits, etc...
Most argue "the government will then know too much about you...". Like they don't already. You have to provide all your financial information to obtain a loan to purchase a home, fill out forms to buy guns, obtain permits. I don't understand why some think no one knows about their business and activities.
However, it might increase crime. A criminal may cut off your head if he wants to steal from you.
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03-28-2014, 09:32 AM
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How about this - anyone who is legally prohibited from carrying a firearm would have a designation on their license indicating such - and everyone else can carry without needing to obtain a permit.
If the goal is to stop folks who have been deemed to have lost their 2nd Amendment right from carrying a firearm - then make the lawyers and courts and police take steps to "tag" them as such and leave the rest of us alone.
The way this would work is that if you are stopped by an officer and you in possession of a firearm and cannot produce a Driver's license without the prohibition listed then you go directly to jail.
Anyone who is convicted or adjudicated would have to produce their driver's license and have it replaced with an updated version showing the prohibition.
Perhaps even two different prohibitions, one indicating not allowed to conceal carry and another indicating not allowed to posses at all.
Of course that would just foster a criminal market in fake IDs but at least it would be placing that additional burden on the criminals rather than the law abiding.
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03-28-2014, 01:12 PM
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OP, a Californian would think that was a good idea. DL and CC licenses aren't remotely connected in FL. It's none of the Dept. of MV's business.
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03-28-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
How would you add the additional language needed to list concealable firearms, let alone the long list of added restrictions sometimes added by different issuing authorities?
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Getting rid of those silly requirements and restrictions should be the first step.
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03-28-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_san
Getting rid of those silly requirements and restrictions should be the first step.
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On the face of it, it would seem simple from the respect of only having to re-write the statute which presently gives issuing authorities the ability to create their own additional restrictions. (Created in 1999 when the CCW laws were revised.)
However, I'm not sure all the counties & cities would be so quick to give up their own local control over licenses and restrictions, even if the state were to become Shall Issue. I could easily see the ability to impose restrictions being the last thing to ever change.
Or, in order to gain some sort of state-wide consensus (among counties & cities who have issuing authorities), I could see the legislators developing some "reasonable" set of state-wide restrictions that would be agreed to by everyone in order to simplify issuance. Since the courts have increasingly held that some reasonable restrictions don't adversely effect the 2nd, and continues to be in the interest of the public safety, this might become the sort of "compromise" reached by lawmakers.
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03-28-2014, 02:42 PM
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Absolutely NOT! Too much info for people who need NOT know! We don't have to help 'em, do we?
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03-28-2014, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
Here in CA, we have several endorsements for our driver's licenses. There's A,B and C class depending on the type/size of vehicle you drive and then there's M for motorcycle. We also have a tag for organ donor.
Wouldn't it be easier to just include the concealed carry license on there as well?
What do you guys think?
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No, because I like having the option to not let the officer pulling me over or the guy at the liqueur store know I carry a gun. Some get too jumpy about it.
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03-28-2014, 03:21 PM
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I must now leave this thread. I don't need another point on my forum license.
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03-28-2014, 04:18 PM
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No. I show my DL when making purchases, at banks, renting cars... on and on. No need to advertise I'm carrying.
In Tennessee, our Handgun Carry Permit# and Driver License# is the same. They even use the same photo. However, we are issued separate cards.
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03-28-2014, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
I must now leave this thread. I don't need another point on my forum license.
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take a breath there guy .. points, counter points and some post debate evaluation leads to better opinions in the next round
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03-28-2014, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
take a breath there guy .. points, counter points and some post debate evaluation leads to better opinions in the next round
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It's not a big deal. It's just that this subject is too easy to drift into a political discussion. That's illegal here so, discretion is the better part of valor.
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03-28-2014, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Springfeildkid585
No, because I like having the option to not let the officer pulling me over or the guy at the liqueur store know I carry a gun. Some get too jumpy about it.
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As far as an officer I wouldn't get to concerned about it.
If I was the guy behind the counter in a liquor store I'd be more concerned about a drunk coming in the store than a law abiding citizen concealed carrying.
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03-28-2014, 11:59 PM
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Vote for me as the next President.... I'll make it happen!
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03-29-2014, 12:02 AM
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Really bad idea. I see no value in it at all.
You want ANOTHER gov't agency involved in my right to keep and bear arms?
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03-29-2014, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastbolt
A plastic CCW license would be nice, as some of the plain paper/card stock can quickly get worn. I don't known how many agencies even issue laminated cards, for that matter.
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Here in Va, my county issued my CCW. It was a piece of card stock but I did get it laminated.
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03-29-2014, 03:36 PM
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I rather doubt this will ever occur in CA, myself.
However, one method of coding CDL's for CCW licensing might be how some retired peace officer & reserve ID's are made, which involves using different color lettering and background colors.
Think of the word POLICE being done in one color for a retiree who is approved to carry a concealed weapon, and another color if not approved. Also, some ID cards use different color backgrounds (around the word) for different classifications (active peace officer, retired, LE reserve, rescue reserrve, etc).
This would make it easy at a glance to tell whether the CDL licensee was also licensed for carrying a concealed weapon.
However, the problem would still remain for having a way to list any additional restrictions (above the standard DOJ restrictions listed in the application) on someone's CDL, as there just isn't a lot of room on the back of the license. Also, that would put DMV into the awkward position of having to receive and then list the many assorted restrictions that might be desired by all the various issuing authorities.
In addition to that ...
Imagine if someone was suspected of having disobeyed a restriction for their CCW. Confiscating the CDL/CCW license, for return to the issuing authority until the circumstances can be reviewed by the issuing authority, would mean the actual CDL was also being taken.
I'd think it better to leave the CDL & CCW licenses separate.
After all, we leave CDL's and agency peace officer ID cards separate, right?
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03-29-2014, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
However, your second point about having to show your driver's license for identification makes sense. Though, as long as the clerk doesn't start bouncing up and down screaming that you have a concealed license, I don't really think it would be an issue. Still, there is a reason we conceal. So, that may be the defining reason against it.
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You're counting on sheeple to be calm, intelligent and keep it to themselves. That's the first and only reason I would need to bunk this one.
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03-30-2014, 04:12 PM
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I am opposed to it. KS started putting it on the DL's, then they had problems because the DL and the CCW permit had different expiration dates. Now the CCW permit looks a lot like the DL, but is a different card. Also it is different enough that an LEO could not confuse the two.
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03-31-2014, 12:13 AM
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Definately NOT.
Many times you need to show your DL for Identification, when cashing a check, using a Credit Card, etc.
No reason to let those people you have a Concealed Carry License.
Much better to have a seperate Carry ID.
That is the way Texas does it, and I find it works perfect...
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04-21-2014, 08:32 PM
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Lets think this through.
Do you REALLY want the department of motor vehicles to have ANYTHING to do with your concealed carry permit?
I didn't think so.
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04-21-2014, 09:17 PM
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Why not put it on your social security card?
Why not put it on your electric bill?
Why not put it on your VISA or AMEX card?
Seriously, your CC Permit has nothing to do with your DL, and the DMV has a tough enough time just keeping up with DL's, I don't want them messing with my CC Permit too.
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04-21-2014, 11:39 PM
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License? We don't need no stinking license!!
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04-22-2014, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle
License? We don't need no stinking license!!
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^^^^^ This IS the answer.
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04-23-2014, 02:12 PM
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A number of folks pointed out that they would not want the permit to carry concealed on their ID - which is why I suggested turning it around - and only having those who are prohibited with any sort of indication on their license. Why the Driver's License (or state ID)? Because it is perhaps the most widely accepted form of state issued ID recognized by establishments or agencies which need to verify your identify or at least your age etc.
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04-29-2014, 09:34 AM
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N C has a paper type which after you sign it they laminate it. It's good for 5 years. Even tho it is not tied to your DL, when they run your DL they will know if you have CCP. I really would not want mine tied to my license in any other way.
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04-29-2014, 09:50 AM
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NO. Too much information for those that it is none of their business. DL is too often used as a photo ID.
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04-29-2014, 01:49 PM
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Why can't adults have a civil conversation about a topic like this? Here we are trying to convince the general public that we are responsible have a frame of mind to carry a weapon.
Personally I don't feel that there is anything to hide. And just having a permit does NOT indicate that you are carrying should someone see a license that indicates you have a permit.
If I have the "M" endorsement for the Ca motor cycle doesn't mean my vehicle is a motor cycle.
Awareness can make some feel more comfortable. I think the general community needs to learn that LAC carry are not out looking for trouble. They should see that it is OK to carry.
I don't see any changes just because it is reflected on your DL rather than another separate card. There is no reason for the DMV to have any effect on the outcome. It should be a convenience rather than a problem.
Everything I have expires at a different time - my DL, CWP, registration on my vehicles (each is different too), insurance, and the list goes on. Id love to see this all match.
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04-30-2014, 12:00 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: St. Louis area
Posts: 3,778
Likes: 1,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff
Here in CA, we have several endorsements for our driver's licenses. There's A,B and C class depending on the type/size of vehicle you drive and then there's M for motorcycle. We also have a tag for organ donor.
Wouldn't it be easier to just include the concealed carry license on there as well?
What do you guys think?
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In MO we were given a choice. I chose not to. If I have to show ID at a business they don't need to know that I have CCW. I chose to get a separate ID.
In CO there was no choice, a separate ID was issued. I was glad.
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05-02-2014, 09:53 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SouthWest Michigan
Posts: 583
Likes: 284
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I believe that a driver's license should be for driver's license related information. Besides, here in Michigan, I see so many people's CCW license lapse and they get lazy about renewing. I know it puts another card in your wallet, but I think they should remain separate.
For me, when I pull people over or do a file check, I know if they are a CCW holder when I run them through my MDT in my cruiser or get my file check back from dispatch. You would be surprised how many people don't present me with their CCW card when I pull them over. Most don't even mention it.
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05-02-2014, 10:25 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,664
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I'm not totally sure how the system works in Utah. We do have a plastic DL type card with a picture. Some say your DL number is tied somehow to your CCW so a traffic stop and check would reveal that you have a license to carry. Others have said that's not true but we were told at the CCW class that, if we're ever stopped, we should state that we have a CCW and whether or not we're carrying.
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05-02-2014, 11:10 AM
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Absent Comrade
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: utah
Posts: 13,063
Likes: 2,547
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It probley doesnt make much difference either way. I just dont like giving tons of extra info. We have got to this point why add more? I will say I have a fat wallet and it isnt because there is much or any money in it. Seems I already carry a inch of plastic.
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05-08-2014, 04:51 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North West Kansas
Posts: 138
Likes: 157
Liked 29 Times in 19 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentucky Dave
Almost anything would be better than the flimsy sheet of paper they issue now, but I don't think tying it onto your DL is a good idea for reasons stated already.
But if Peruta stands and CCW becomes "Shall Issue" CA really needs to go to a card of some sort. For those out of state who have no idea what we're talking about - the CA CCW permit is a smallish sheet of paper with your info, issuing agency & permitted weapons on the front and (in some counties) a rubber stamped list of "reasonable restrictions" on the back. It is nothing like a normal DL or credit card type thing like my FL license.
Here is the back of a couple of my old CA CCW and you can see how worn they got...
Any other states NOT have a real card?
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San Bernardino County issues a plastic card with picture, like a driver's license for CCW.
That being said, in California you do not have to volunteer the info that you are carrying to a LEO, unless he asks you. The Sheriff's office told us NOT to tell a Chippy (if he doesn't ask) because the Chippies freak out.
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