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  #51  
Old 04-02-2014, 01:35 PM
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Is the Texas Roadhouse a "bar" in Colorado? Here, it's a restaraunt...that happens to have a bar.
I was sitting in the bar part of the resaraunt.



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I wouldn't say it makes you a fool...just someone who's willing to risk losing their ccw priviledge.
In Colorado I am completely legal if I carry in a bar (of any type) as long as I don't drink.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:35 PM
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So I was with my girlfriend at the bar. I met her friend, Jay. Jay was in the army from 1993-98. We have things in common, as I was in the army from 2008-12. In a random conversation, I mentioned I conceal and carry, which Jay replied he can't because he got in trouble with the law here and there. I understand, as I've also been in trouble, but never once have I been convicted guilty nor have I pled guilty, so my record is clean. He asked about people seeing my gun and I ran him through general behavior. When you see a man you see blue jeans, red shirt, white guy, red beard, and that's it. When you look at him you see from the chest up. Nobody ever sees the slightly odd point in my shirt where I appendix carry a full size ruger sr9. Nobody seems to notice.

The bar closes and we move to another bar. This one has a few guys and a rather attractive girl. Our group was 4 total, but Jay is the only important character in my story. Jay strikes me as a disabled veteran age 39 who is now an alcoholic living on a va check each month. In general he's a cool guy. I'm a 25 year old veteran who is in no way disabled. And all I know about the girl at bar #2 is she's rather attractive from the front and back, wearing tight fitting clothing, and I enjoyed viewing her.

Jay, who has by now had several drinks, approached me and asked if he could "borrow my piece." His words, not mine. He made some sort of explanation that I ignored about the girl and some guy that sounded to me like a bar fight was brewing. If I'm alive, the answer is no. I tuned back in and gathered Jay wanted to "make a statement." I let Jay know that pulling a gun is a death threat, and no matter what the outcome is the cops will be here soon if you pull a gun. I figure Jay has 3 options. Put $30 on the bar and leave now, avoid the group and don't look at the girl or the boyfriend all night, or get into the group and end up in a bar fight.

Jay then asked if I could "make a statement" with my gun. I told him no, since using a gun to bully people is still a death threat which still leads to cops when there's a variety of other options and its not my fight. I told Jay if he goes over there with my gun, He gets arrested and my gun is gone. If I make the statement I get arrested and my gun is gone. Either option can be avoided by standing over here or leaving.

Jay then attempted to tell me the whole story saying it's the girl talking smack and such And pushing people around... I asked him is pulling a gun the answer to someone thinking they're cool? He didn't think so. Off topic, thank God for background checks. At this point I'm glad Jay can't conceal and carry.

About 10 minutes later I found my excuse to leave and I was gone.

Going back over the situation, I know I'm right in not loaning out my gun. And I know I'm right in not bullying someone with my gun. I'm pretty sure I'm right in leaving and removing the gun on my belt from whatever situation was about to happen. And I really don't care what this rather attractive girl was saying, since I don't even know her name nor was I interested in learning it. Was I wrong to discuss concealing and carrying and letting someone know I carry? To me discussing guns is like discussing the weather. They're items legally purchased. Its a sport played by a bunch of people. Its an interest of many. But personal defense is like personal hygiene. Everyone does it, and some people's routine stinks, but nobody talks about it. Its personal, not public. Not really secret, but not a general topic of conversation.

I see both sides of the argument here. I just don't know which side I agree with more.


New update since I read all of your replies. Last time I typed up a story you guys pointed out a variety of ways I was in the wrong, and I worked on those points to correct them. Now you guys are bringing up valid points where I was wrong in this one too, So I'll work on those, too. I believe I agree with everyone here. Like I shouldn't have been closing the bar and moving to the next one. I should have been a better judge of character when befriending Jay. Discussing guns and discussing conceal and carry are not 2 sides of an argument, It's 2 different topics. This is why I post my stories here, because I know something happened and it was avoidable before I avoided it, and you guys have pointed out a variety of ways it could have been avoided 2 hours ago. And for the record, I don't drive drunk, So I don't carry drunk either. I didn't drink with the gun. While scolding happens, I want you guys to know I'm the one telling you the story with the purpose of improving myself, and trying not to be dumb or a thug.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson
I think you managed a bad situation pretty well. Sure there are things that you could have done in advance that would have helped. I as a rule, the statement is "I carry" not "I am carrying" and I usually say that I'm not at the moment (it's even the truth sometimes). I, as a rule don't carry when I'm drinking, so I rarely am carrying when I'm at the bar, but you've established that you weren't drinking.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:38 PM
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I don't know who came up with this originally but I use it in my classes. Makes sense to me! We have all been in situations that ended up being dicey and thankfully emerged unscathed? Sounds like what you have described, glad it worked out, lesson learned.
A variety of lessons now.

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Old 04-02-2014, 01:39 PM
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I'm just going to throw this out, had you never told the guy you were carrying or even that you did carry (why in the Hell do you drop that on some random stranger you just met?) you never would have had the issues you had later.

Second thing (JMO) if that amount of drama is common to your circle, you need a different circle.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:42 PM
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Ya sound like a fairly young one, somewhere between figuring it out and knowing where it's at.
Your half way doomed to find yourself in a bar in the not so distant future. At that age the bar is something of a vortex that sucked up a large portion of your social contacts.

Now, you say that you could have cared less about what was going on with the piece of fluff and her group of players ....
Really?
If trouble is going to start, that's a perfect setup for it. Thus it makes sense to keep an eye on it before the fission starts.
You missed some critical activity there, and probably a whole lot more.
Like that dude at the other end of the bar eyeballin the piece of fluff like he still had the Mojo he vaguely remembered back in the 70's or 80's. Go ahead ... next time your roped into the joint, scan the crowd and find this guy.Shouldn't be too hard, they really stand out after ya notice them.
Long ago, he found ways to tolerate the antics, convince himself he was happy, and never figured out that it never did him any favors.
Thats why he's still there, thinking he's got a shot with that chick that could have been his daughter. His old crew moved on along without him.

Your his replacement.

You found ways to tolerate it like he did.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:15 PM
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You know those guys who just like people and get along with everyone?

I'm not one of them.

I have no interest in people like your acquaintance. They neither amuse nor entertain me. Working VERY hard to avoid people like them has served me well over the years. I've never been arrested, and that's one reason why.

I like INTELLIGENT people with interesting things to say, not screwed up people who act out when they drink. That's one reason why I generally avoid bars.

I have relatively few friends, and NONE like that guy. It helps me avoid being a prohibited person... or worse.

Your choices are your own, but they almost always have consequences.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:28 PM
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You know those guys who just like people and get along with everyone?

I'm not one of them.

I have no interest in people like your acquaintance. They neither amuse nor entertain me. Working VERY hard to avoid people like them has served me well over the years. I've never been arrested, and that's one reason why.

I like INTELLIGENT people with interesting things to say, not screwed up people who act out when they drink. That's one reason why I generally avoid bars.

I have relatively few friends, and NONE like that guy. It helps me avoid being a prohibited person... or worse.

Your choices are your own, but they almost always have consequences.
I have many acquaintance but few friends, and I can get along and hold a conversation with just about anyone. My problem the other night was I didn't keep my conceal and carry gun a secret, and I'll fix that. My other problem was closing down the bar and moving to the new one. I'll fix that, too. I can agree with you.

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Old 04-02-2014, 02:36 PM
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Ya sound like a fairly young one, somewhere between figuring it out and knowing where it's at.
Your half way doomed to find yourself in a bar in the not so distant future. At that age the bar is something of a vortex that sucked up a large portion of your social contacts.

Now, you say that you could have cared less about what was going on with the piece of fluff and her group of players ....
Really?
If trouble is going to start, that's a perfect setup for it. Thus it makes sense to keep an eye on it before the fission starts.
You missed some critical activity there, and probably a whole lot more.
Like that dude at the other end of the bar eyeballin the piece of fluff like he still had the Mojo he vaguely remembered back in the 70's or 80's. Go ahead ... next time your roped into the joint, scan the crowd and find this guy.Shouldn't be too hard, they really stand out after ya notice them.
Long ago, he found ways to tolerate the antics, convince himself he was happy, and never figured out that it never did him any favors.
Thats why he's still there, thinking he's got a shot with that chick that could have been his daughter. His old crew moved on along without him.

Your his replacement.

You found ways to tolerate it like he did.
There's a theory I hadn't noticed and it lines up just fine. Jay is 39 and hangs out at the bar. The 35-65 year old crowd was gone by 10, and Jay was hanging out with me, Mike, and the group of 6 girls I was with. All the girls age between 21 and 23. Mike dated one of the girls but they're no longer dating. That's all the drama I know about. It appears now that Jay needs a new crew because he's trying to be 23 years old in his head. It makes sense.

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Old 04-02-2014, 02:37 PM
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100% right on leaving. But i disagree about not closing a bar and going to another. Why not have a good time. If something l like that starts to happen just leave. The only problem I see is telling someone you just befriended that you are in fact carrying at the moment. I can see having a discussion about firearms. ...it's a topic. ....but not telling them that you are packing.

I've been going to bars socially for the last 13 years. I have a good time, see old friends, make new ones. Often we close the bar. In all this time I often have a gun, mostly because I was out and doing something else before that. 99% of the time I leave it in the car, sometimes I don't. However in all this time I have yet to walk out angry. I always have a good time. If I see a problem starting I/we leave. I don't care for beer muscles and have nothing to prove. I've never been in a situation where I was in the middle of a confrontation of any part of it. I don't get why that's so hard to do

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Old 04-02-2014, 02:42 PM
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I've never been in a situation where I was in the middle of a confrontation of any part of it. I don't get why that's so hard to do
You should, of course, do whatever you want - whatever you decide is right for you, is.

I have worked on at least a dozen cases in which perfectly innocent bystanders were killed when a nearby drunk turned out to be an idiot. I suspect the stupid places/people/times wisdom is intended to minimize such instances.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:43 PM
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100% right on leaving. But i disagree about not closing a bar and going to another. Why not have a good time. If something l like that starts to happen just leave. The only problem I see is telling someone you just befriended that you are in fact carrying at the moment. I can see having a discussion about firearms. ...it's a topic. ....but not telling them that you are packing.

I've been going to bars socially for the last 13 years. I have a good time, see old friends, make new ones. Often we close the bar. In all this time I often have a gun, mostly because I was out and doing something else before that. 99% of the time I leave it in the car, sometimes I don't. However in all this time I have yet to walk out angry. I always have a good time. If I see a problem starting I/we leave. I don't care for beer muscles and have nothing to prove. I've never been in a situation where I was in the middle of a confrontation of any part of it. I don't get why that's so hard to do

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It was time for us to leave anyway. Jay starting to get extra dumb simply threw up all the red flags saying we need to hasten our exit. I don't usually close the bar. I usually stay and hang out until I get tired and I'm in bed at 11pm. The other night I was wide awake and hanging out with the girls at midnight. So if I go back to my normal routine of leaving in a timely manner, then I might not be in another bad situation.

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Old 04-02-2014, 02:46 PM
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So i should just sit home? That is the only 100% sure way not to get killed by an idiot drunk. I can give you this case......a friend's father was killed by a drunk on a nice Sunday morning while sitting at a stop light. I guess just sit at home

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Old 04-02-2014, 02:50 PM
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I don't go to bars since I rarely drink alcohol and dislike being around drunks. As many have said, drinking and guns don't mix anywhere or anytime. If I did intend going to a bar, I would leave the gun in my safe. If that idiot had started telling someone that they better watch out because his "friend" is carrying a gun, then what?...At that point, like it or not, you are involved...My policy is that I NEVER discuss my status regarding concealed carry with anyone in public. There are only two people who are aware that I am armed at times...One is my wife and the other is my best friend for the past forty years. That has worked well for me since I began carrying concealed as a young police officer in 1978. That is also why openly carrying anywhere but in the wilderness is not an option for me. I have seen experienced law enforcement officers do stupid things with guns when drinking or being around drunken people. This is literally "deadly business" and unforgiving of bad choices.
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:58 PM
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I will only discuss the subject of CCW (to the extent of my doing it or not) with folks who have both a need to know, and my trust....

Its the same as the alarm company signs on your front yard... you can advertise you have an alarm (and its type) or you can shut up and let it do its job.... I am sure from your post that Jay taught you a LOT about who to discuss CCW with (again, in respect to "do you carry").

I carried every day at the gun store I worked at, and was asked at least once a week "are you carrying now?" my answer was always the same.... a VERY GRUFF "none of your business", followed by a polite explanation of just how rude that question is/was.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:14 PM
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this is a great story......for face book, my space, twitter, you tube........
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:17 PM
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So i should just sit home? That is the only 100% sure way not to get killed by an idiot drunk. I can give you this case......a friend's father was killed by a drunk on a nice Sunday morning while sitting at a stop light. I guess just sit at home

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Quote:
You should, of course, do whatever you want - whatever you decide is right for you, is.
My post replying to yours was only in response to your claiming to be perplexed about why people on this thread were suggesting not closing one bar and going to another - not to tell you what to do. You're grown: you decide what you should do. But if you're going to ask for clarification, you'll get it.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:27 PM
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Never said that

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Old 04-02-2014, 05:34 PM
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And at least I type my stories in here with the intent on learning and improving myself. Others don't. Just imagine if I continued thinking I was right and went out and did this again!

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson
Well, we have all pounded on you pretty hard but I think the important thing is....You have learned something from all this. Carrying a gun is serious business and I think you now get that.
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Old 04-02-2014, 05:50 PM
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Not bashing the OP, but things like this should be considered BEFORE carrying a gun.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:02 PM
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Haven't had a drink in close to 32 years. Sat in the bar at Texas Roadhouse 2 weeks ago eating a cheeseburger with my wife. Aside from the fact that I didn't order a steak, how does that make me a fool?
If anything can go wrong, it probably will. How was the cheeseburger?
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:08 PM
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Most of our good judgement comes from experience. Most of our experience comes from having had bad judgement.

If your younger brother had been in the same situation, what advice would you give him?

Stay safe, brother.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:32 PM
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My own personal thoughts:

Stay out of bars. Nothing good ever happens there.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:03 PM
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So i should just sit home? That is the only 100% sure way not to get killed by an idiot drunk. I can give you this case......a friend's father was killed by a drunk on a nice Sunday morning while sitting at a stop light. I guess just sit at home

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There's a lot of choices other than sitting home or going to the bar.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:29 PM
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To much drama - sorry but this all centers around you making poor decisions. 1. NEVER, ever, even think of "loaning" a gun out. 2. NEVER, ever tell people you are carrying. 3. Pick better people to hang with. If you can't clean up your act don't expect your "friends" to do it for you. If your gun goes "BOOM" it doesn't matter who has it - your on the hook and your next call is to a criminal defense attorney.

If I were you - I would leave the gun at home.

Sorry, but that is just the way I see it.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:33 PM
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this is a great story......for face book, my space, twitter, you tube........
perfect for here...it was a learning situation...the OP now knows something he had not thought about...telling some one that he is carrying as opposed to saying nothing(preferable) or leading them to believe that he was not...now he knows and knowing is half the battle...

we all should strive to be "teachers of the gun" if you will
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:34 PM
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I'm not going to get into the bar VS restaurant issue, but I do want to restate what has already been said because I think it is a vital point. You just need to be more aware of the type of people you hang around. For example: My neighbor is about my age, works hark at landscaping, helps his parents and is up to date on his child support, generally a nice guy ... until you figure in his multiple arrests and convictions for crystal meth possession and distribution. I might say hi to the guy if the situation arose, but no way in hell would I go out and have a few beers with him, even if he has been clean for a while (if he has).

I'm just saying that you may have to shrink your circle of friends or "screen" them a bit closer before 'hanging out.'
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:45 PM
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I'm not going to get into the bar VS restaurant issue, but I do want to restate what has already been said because I think it is a vital point. You just need to be more aware of the type of people you hang around. For example: My neighbor is about my age, works hark at landscaping, helps his parents and is up to date on his child support, generally a nice guy ... until you figure in his multiple arrests and convictions for crystal meth possession and distribution. I might say hi to the guy if the situation arose, but no way in hell would I go out and have a few beers with him, even if he has been clean for a while (if he has).

I'm just saying that you may have to shrink your circle of friends or "screen" them a bit closer before 'hanging out.'
In his defense, all too often, one is subject to the screening process of others in your crew, who all too often, suck in their ability to do so.

Change of venue is in order.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:57 PM
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thebeamanater107,
I admit that I didn't read all the posts in this thread. Even so, I appreciate your candor and attitude. I'm glad you decided not to loan your gun as that would have been a very poor choice.

There is a lot to learn for all of us. I just hope others are as willing to learn as you are.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:13 PM
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Haven't seen this mentioned, and hopefully our helpful attorneys or LEO's will provide the correct answer. I've always been told that it is illegal for a federally "prohibited person", aka a convicted felon, to touch a firearm anywhere at any time. If the OP had loaned his gun to Mike and the police were called, would our OP have been facing charges?
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:22 PM
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Good point Squarebutt. Yes, you cannot legally loan a gun to a person who is legally prevented from owning a firearm. If something happened and the cops were called, the OP would have been culpable.
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Old 04-03-2014, 06:44 AM
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There's a lot of choices other than sitting home or going to the bar.
No kidding?! Guess you didn't read the other part. My point is you'll run into them or those types everywhere

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:12 AM
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No kidding?! Guess you didn't read the other part. My point is you'll run into them or those types everywhere

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I agree, you may run into idiots just about anywhere these
days. In my senior years now I rarely go to bars anymore
but I have no qualms about going in for a sandwich and drink
if I want to. But there is one thing I have noticed over the
years in general that relates to closing one bar and going to
another. It seems that in most public gathering places the
prudent people tend to leave before the last minute. As it
gets later and later in bars or shopping malls or wherever
the general atmosphere tends to slide downhill. Better to
be one of those who departs a bit too early than a bit too
late in my opinion.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:21 AM
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I've read the original post a few times and there are a lot of things that bug me. First is telling someone that the OP barely knows that he's carrying a gun. Not the smartest thing to do. 2nd, I may be wrong but upon basic review, it's still illegal in Georgia (I believe that's where the OP is) to carry in a bar. It doesn't seem too far a stretch that this situation is not nearly as volatile without the weapon in a place where inhibitions are being removed.

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:34 AM
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In his defense, all too often, one is subject to the screening process of others in your crew, who all too often, suck in their ability to do so.

Change of venue is in order.
I'll agree with you on that one, but in a way I lead a "sheltered life." My 'crew' are all first responders of one sort or another, mainly cops though and other than a few exceptions to the rule, pretty well "screened."
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:38 AM
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No kidding?! Guess you didn't read the other part. My point is you'll run into them or those types everywhere

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True. Just as you can run into a criminal everywhere...its just more likelly at a prison.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:56 AM
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If anything can go wrong, it probably will. How was the cheeseburger?
Just a trifle undercooked
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Old 04-03-2014, 02:05 PM
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No kidding?! Guess you didn't read the other part. My point is you'll run into them or those types everywhere

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its about the odds.
You could possibly fall victim to radiation poisoning today. Not very likely, but it could happen somewhere in the fraction of the last percentile in the statistic.
This probability rises if your environment is a nuclear facility, and perhaps further rises with the type of nuclear facility.

Likewise, environment effects the probability of contact with the violent criminal demographic.
If you are sitting in a church on any given Sunday, some, from that demographic may very well be in the same room as you.
in the prior Saturday night, at the bar, the probability shifts to near certainty.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:42 PM
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Fifty years ago I knew this guy that just got discharged as a AF pilot. He was waiting to go on a airline where he just got accepted. Now I only say this only to point out he wasnt a bum, gang banger or a low brow type.
I got off at midnight, changed cloths and met him at a topless bar in north hollywood. It was real close to closeing and we both ordered a drink. I chugged mine down but he nursed his. The place was almost empty except for another table with three or four guys sitting at it and it was evident they were regulars that knew the bartender. I dont think we had our drinks but a minuet or two when the bartender came back to get the glass`s as he said he had to close. My buddy hadnt even started his drink but my glass was empty. My buddy just said something like, "Hey guy, you just gave me the drink". The bartender read more than that into it and mouthed off I will do anything I need to to get drink! Then he hollered to one of his buddys at the table, "Tony, I need a little help here!" All four guys got up and braced us. This was fifty years ago and in those days I could be a fighter. I didnt say a word to my friend or the bar keep but got up to back up my friend. It was his play and I was just as ready to fight or leave. My buddy just got up and told me lets go and headed for the door so I followed him out. I lived only a couple blocks away so told my friend lets go to my place, I have a bottle there.
He followed me home and we had a drink. He went to the bathroom and a few minuets later I had to go too. When I walked to the bathroom I noticed my revolver was out of my holster where I had stashed my gunbelt above my uniform!
I went back in the living room and he was making to leave. I knew darn well he must have my gun hid under his sports coat! I also knew he probley was going back to that bar! I tried to stall and keep him from leaving as I started talking about flying as I was a student pilot in those days. I had made up my mind to stall him hoping the people in the bar would be gone if I couldn't pull off the sucker punch I had in mind. He was really wanting to leave so I was just getting ready to throw a haymaker and he sensed it! He reached under his sport coat, pulled my gun from his back and I was looking at my gun! He calmly reversed it and handed it to me! He said "it aint worth it, is it? Yeah, I was going to go back there and settle things!"
It wasnt just a short time later that he was friends with the bartender, the guys that braced us and had the best looking stripper at the club!
Always wondered what happened to him. Last I knew he flew for american airlines. He probley retired about 25 years ago. The name of the bar was "The cockpit". It was near LAT airport.

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Old 04-06-2014, 04:46 PM
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Please take this with offense, but this kind of conversation makes the forum look bad.

You have exercised bad judgment in carrying a gun and drinking or being in a bar at that hour with a gun, furthermore your buddy is bad company.

I think you are wrong headed in a lot of ways.
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Old 04-06-2014, 05:10 PM
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Please take this with offense, but this kind of conversation makes the forum look bad.

You have exercised bad judgment in carrying a gun and drinking or being in a bar at that hour with a gun, furthermore your buddy is bad company.

I think you are wrong headed in a lot of ways.
I disagree. I think this makes the forum look good. Here's why...

A guy comes here looking for advice. Maybe he's new to carrying concealed. He tells us a story with many flaws in it. Forum members respond without looking down on him and offer up some great advice. The OP reads and heeds the advice. He learns from his mistakes and we learn from his mistakes. By having a calm, gentlemanly discussion we all get better for it.

I'm glad he came here with this and I'm thankful for most of the responses and the OP's attitude toward learning. I think it makes us and the forum better for the experience.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:10 PM
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Please take this with offense, but this kind of conversation makes the forum look bad.

You have exercised bad judgment in carrying a gun and drinking or being in a bar at that hour with a gun, furthermore your buddy is bad company.

I think you are wrong headed in a lot of ways.
I disagree. People exercise poor judgment all the time...and many of them are older than 25. The fact that it's being discussed (here) makes the forum look "good" - not bad. It demonstrates that there is someplace to go for sound advice and learning. The ABSENCE of such a place would be the bigger shame.
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Old 04-06-2014, 09:26 PM
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Please take this with offense, but this kind of conversation makes the forum look bad.

You have exercised bad judgment in carrying a gun and drinking or being in a bar at that hour with a gun, furthermore your buddy is bad company.

I think you are wrong headed in a lot of ways.
so teaching right from wrong and "proper concealed carry protocol" is bad?

people learn from mistakes, both their own and those of others. this forum has used a potentially bad situation from someone who was unaware of their improper actions and used it as a positive learning experience without argument or insult, for the most part. i fail to see how this is detrimental to this forum. this is why i enjoy this forum more than others i have visited where arguments and insults are a daily "show".
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Old 04-07-2014, 11:10 AM
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Allow me to congratulate you for the courage to post this story and face the backlash. This is how we learn and for my part I never reveal to anyone, aside from those who know anyway (wife, family, etc.), I'm armed.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:07 PM
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I disagree. People exercise poor judgment all the time...and many of them are older than 25. The fact that it's being discussed (here) makes the forum look "good" - not bad. It demonstrates that there is someplace to go for sound advice and learning. The ABSENCE of such a place would be the bigger shame.
exactly ...
he screwed up in a fair handful of ways.
Some, he figured out, others we pointed out.
At the end of the day, we saved him some time on the learning curve.
Given that some points lay at the foundation of fatal mistakes, we may have helped him avoid a future prison sentence.

Sure, It got a little messy back there, but I think most of it mopped up fairly well
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:09 PM
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I didn't get into a situation in a bar, but I did make the mistake of telling a friend I got a CWP. Friend has sometimes referred to this in locations and among people I would prefer not to know that I carry. I think I've gotten friend to understand not to talk about it, and I don't discuss it with anyone anymore outside of the range or educational gun class situation.

Also found out spouse was talking about it at work. I asked him not to, and spouse has stopped. If someone wants to see my firearm, he or she can accompany me to the range. It is not a toy to show off. And if I need to use it, I want the bad guys to think that I'm just a clueless, sweet lady who poses no threat--until after I have chosen to take action.

I'll always walk away from a situation, if I can.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:25 PM
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I did make the mistake of telling a friend I got a CWP. Friend has sometimes referred to this in locations and among people I would prefer not to know that I carry. I think I've gotten friend to understand not to talk about it, and I don't discuss it with anyone anymore outside of the range or educational gun class situation.
Sheesh: been there, amiga. Gun friends even do this, sometimes. I've actually decided a couple friends were too idiotic to see socially after a couple such incidents.
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:31 PM
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I didn't get into a situation in a bar, but I did make the mistake of telling a friend I got a CWP.
Yep, this can always be a problem. We want to talk about our accomplishments and getting a concealed permit is a goal for many people so, they talk about it. Often we find, too late, that those we tell are not discrete.

The best way to keep a secret is to not tell anyone.

I have a friend who carries and we've been to a couple classes together. One day, while I was teaching a range orientation class, he said to the class, "Both he and I are carrying now" which didn't sit well with me.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:16 PM
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Yep, this can always be a problem. We want to talk about our accomplishments and getting a concealed permit is a goal for many people so, they talk about it. Often we find, too late, that those we tell are not discrete.

The best way to keep a secret is to not tell anyone.

I have a friend who carries and we've been to a couple classes together. One day, while I was teaching a range orientation class, he said to the class, "Both he and I are carrying now" which didn't sit well with me.
Posted this in another thread

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It’s been my experience that once you let that knowledge out you lose all control over it. Right after I got my CHP I made the mistake of telling a friend who proceeded to share that information with a third party that I wouldn’t have told. He actually piped up in the middle of a conversation the three of us were having with “Smoke’s carrying a gun right now.” Luckily the comment went right over the third guy’s head.

I also made the mistake of telling another friend from church who then proceeded to tell everyone in his circle because he thought carrying guns was “cool” and that knowing someone who carried a gun made him “cool” even though he never got his CHP. When I explained that I had shared that with him in confidence and would rather he didn’t pass it along he told me it was better that people knew because they’d feel more “comfortable”. I’ve avoided him since.

My wife told our daughter who also dropped it into a third party conversation in the form of ‘Don’t mess with my mom man, she’s strapped.” although she did have enough sense to listen when her mother asked her never to do that again.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:23 PM
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Yes, these experiences are why I had a conversation with my wife and son. They know I carry, but I've asked them not to tell anyone at any time. They both agree that is a wise choice.

Under the right circumstances I would tell someone. I will always follow that with, the statement that it's neither polite nor wise to tell anyone else.
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:45 PM
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I'm the one telling you the story with the purpose of improving myself, and trying not to be dumb or a thug.
We appreciate your desire to improve. Those of us who have carried for years have made many of the same mistakes (and worse!) but we just ain't willin' to admit it. Thanks for sharing.

BTW, there are times even my wife does not know if I am carrying. Nor do I know when she is carrying.
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