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Old 04-02-2014, 02:44 AM
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So I was with my girlfriend at the bar. I met her friend, Jay. Jay was in the army from 1993-98. We have things in common, as I was in the army from 2008-12. In a random conversation, I mentioned I conceal and carry, which Jay replied he can't because he got in trouble with the law here and there. I understand, as I've also been in trouble, but never once have I been convicted guilty nor have I pled guilty, so my record is clean. He asked about people seeing my gun and I ran him through general behavior. When you see a man you see blue jeans, red shirt, white guy, red beard, and that's it. When you look at him you see from the chest up. Nobody ever sees the slightly odd point in my shirt where I appendix carry a full size ruger sr9. Nobody seems to notice.

The bar closes and we move to another bar. This one has a few guys and a rather attractive girl. Our group was 4 total, but Jay is the only important character in my story. Jay strikes me as a disabled veteran age 39 who is now an alcoholic living on a va check each month. In general he's a cool guy. I'm a 25 year old veteran who is in no way disabled. And all I know about the girl at bar #2 is she's rather attractive from the front and back, wearing tight fitting clothing, and I enjoyed viewing her.

Jay, who has by now had several drinks, approached me and asked if he could "borrow my piece." His words, not mine. He made some sort of explanation that I ignored about the girl and some guy that sounded to me like a bar fight was brewing. If I'm alive, the answer is no. I tuned back in and gathered Jay wanted to "make a statement." I let Jay know that pulling a gun is a death threat, and no matter what the outcome is the cops will be here soon if you pull a gun. I figure Jay has 3 options. Put $30 on the bar and leave now, avoid the group and don't look at the girl or the boyfriend all night, or get into the group and end up in a bar fight.

Jay then asked if I could "make a statement" with my gun. I told him no, since using a gun to bully people is still a death threat which still leads to cops when there's a variety of other options and its not my fight. I told Jay if he goes over there with my gun, He gets arrested and my gun is gone. If I make the statement I get arrested and my gun is gone. Either option can be avoided by standing over here or leaving.

Jay then attempted to tell me the whole story saying it's the girl talking smack and such And pushing people around... I asked him is pulling a gun the answer to someone thinking they're cool? He didn't think so. Off topic, thank God for background checks. At this point I'm glad Jay can't conceal and carry.

About 10 minutes later I found my excuse to leave and I was gone.

Going back over the situation, I know I'm right in not loaning out my gun. And I know I'm right in not bullying someone with my gun. I'm pretty sure I'm right in leaving and removing the gun on my belt from whatever situation was about to happen. And I really don't care what this rather attractive girl was saying, since I don't even know her name nor was I interested in learning it. Was I wrong to discuss concealing and carrying and letting someone know I carry? To me discussing guns is like discussing the weather. They're items legally purchased. Its a sport played by a bunch of people. Its an interest of many. But personal defense is like personal hygiene. Everyone does it, and some people's routine stinks, but nobody talks about it. Its personal, not public. Not really secret, but not a general topic of conversation.

I see both sides of the argument here. I just don't know which side I agree with more.


New update since I read all of your replies. Last time I typed up a story you guys pointed out a variety of ways I was in the wrong, and I worked on those points to correct them. Now you guys are bringing up valid points where I was wrong in this one too, So I'll work on those, too. I believe I agree with everyone here. Like I shouldn't have been closing the bar and moving to the next one. I should have been a better judge of character when befriending Jay. Discussing guns and discussing conceal and carry are not 2 sides of an argument, It's 2 different topics. This is why I post my stories here, because I know something happened and it was avoidable before I avoided it, and you guys have pointed out a variety of ways it could have been avoided 2 hours ago. And for the record, I don't drive drunk, So I don't carry drunk either. I didn't drink with the gun. While scolding happens, I want you guys to know I'm the one telling you the story with the purpose of improving myself, and trying not to be dumb or a thug.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson

Last edited by thebeamanater107; 04-02-2014 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:05 AM
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Baseline statement #1 - if you find yourself in a hapenstance where gun play happens , or is potentially in play , it is a sign you need to either patronize a higher class establishment , or drink at home.

Baseline statement #2 - loaning your gun to an alcoholic hanging out in a bar to "make a statement" is an automatic *no way! * , no further thought or discussion required. For it to even occur as a question triggers application of Statement #1 .

[ And I'm not even catagorically opposed to carry in alcohol serving establishments ]
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Old 04-02-2014, 03:17 AM
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Yeah bar number 1 is supposedly a great place where a major radio station broadcasts from on the weekends. I went there for the wings and a pool table. And it was every bit what I thought it was. Its a decent bar.

Bar number 2 was a bad idea. It was clean and decorated, but it was nothing more than a hole in the wall filled with alcohol.

But Jay was the problem, not any other person or establishment in my opinion. It's cool, there are plenty of other hangout places around town that don't involve Jay or the places he frequents.

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Old 04-02-2014, 04:23 AM
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Glad things turned out ok.
I think you have learned a few things too.
And you have much more to learn, young grasshopper.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:53 AM
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You were right not to loan out your gun. Disgussing concealed carry
with a guy you just met in a bar who seems to have obvious drinking
and social problems? Wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Old 04-02-2014, 04:54 AM
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i would have left as soon as he asked to borrow the gun. also, in the original conversation, i would have said i was not carrying because of the location, even if you were. very few people in my close circle know when i am armed. i have even left the house without my wife knowing i am armed.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:17 AM
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Too much drama.

Conceal but don't reveal.
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Old 04-02-2014, 06:34 AM
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The operative word in concealed carry is "concealed." That is true in more than one sense, including telling people you are carrying, especially in an establishment where alcohol is served and drunks being present is a given.

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Old 04-02-2014, 07:13 AM
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Always carry never tell
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:23 AM
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No doubts, you were right in your actions. The only thing that could have happened from "Jay" getting his hands on a gun is unnecessary bloodshed or death AND another incident for the antis to rally around.

People like that, who "Want to make a statement" is only one of the many reasons *I* carry. What I heard Jay saying is "I'm a lethal threat, you may have to take me out someday."
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:23 AM
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Sounds like this guy has some serious problems.
You were of course right in not giving him the gun. I agree with the above posts. Do not tell ANYONE you don't implicitly trust you are carrying. If somebody asks if I'm carrying and I'm not, I say no.
On the other hand if somebody asks if I'm carrying and I am.....I say no.

It's nobodies business.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeamanater107 View Post
Was I wrong for discussing and carrying and letting someone know I carry? To me discussing guns is like discussing the weather. They're items legally purchased. Its a sport played by a bunch of people. Its an interest of many. But personal defense is like personal hygiene. Everyone does it, and some people's routine stinks, but nobody talks about it. Its personal, not public. Not really secret, but not a general topic of conversation.

I see both sides of the argument here. I just don't know which side I agree with more.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson
Glad nothing came of it because it could have been very bad. Imagine if "drunk" Jay had decided to cold-cock you and TAKE your gun? (after you refused to "lend" it)

After going through all that you just detailed, the fact that you STILL have to ask if you were wrong for discussing/disclosing your carry status to someone you don't know is very revealing. As one poster said - you have much to learn, grasshopper. There are people I've known for 30 years that have no idea I carry...and they don't need to know!

Secondly, persoanl defense is NOT something that everyone does, for that matter, neither is personal hygene. I would agree that both are something everyone SHOULD do...but should and do are two entirelly different things.

Keep living and learning, young grasshopper. And if you will keep your concealed carry status "concealed" it may help you in that regard.
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Old 04-02-2014, 07:47 AM
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Always carry never tell
^^+^^ This!!! No one needs to know, period. Here in Michigan, carrying in a bar is a no-no. Even if it wasn't, alcohol and guns are a bad mix. Anyone who thinks their thought process isn't affected is seriously deluding him/herself. If you're going out to hoist a few, leave the piece home in the safe.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:39 AM
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Don't go to stupid places with stupid people that do stupid things.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:46 AM
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Why on earth would you tell someone who, an hour or two earlier, was a total stranger that you are carrying??? In a bar, no less. With all due respect it sounds to me like Jay was not the only one wanting to make a statement. As someone else said, "Conceal, don't reveal."
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:51 AM
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Sounds like it's time to change friends and bars.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
About 10 minutes later I found my excuse to leave and I was gone.
THIS should have happened about 30 minutes earlier.

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Old 04-02-2014, 09:56 AM
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Even if it is legal....never consume ANY alcohol if you are carrying a gun.

If a situation was to occur where a totally legal use of deadly force on your part to save your life or the life of another happened but it was discovered that you had consumed alcohol your life would be destroyed by lawyers.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:00 AM
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As mentioned previously.

Mistake #1, never discuss guns with people you don't know.

Mistake #2, you left 10 minutes too late.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:05 AM
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As a concealed carry instructor in Louisiana for the last 17 years, I'm going to have to borrow "conceal, don't reveal" for my future classes. It's a very good piece of advice. Here, permit holders can't carry in bars, lounges, or other places that sell drinks as their main business, so that's a non issue for obvious reasons. I always tell my clients that nobody needs to know they have a permit and are carrying and that concealed means concealed. Just the mere presence of drawing a handgun could get one charged with "aggravated assault with a firearm", which carries up to 10 years in jail or a hefty fine. As everyone pointed out, it better be a life threating event to justify the handgun's presence in it's owner's hand instead of its holster. Bob!
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:06 AM
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I can't see what "both sides of the argument here. I just don't know which side I agree with more."
There's only one and it's that Jay is not a guy I would hang with let alone drink with unless you enjoy bar fights.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:30 AM
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^^ additionally, if I'm not mistaken, a Louisiana permit is not valid if the permit holder has a blood alcohol content greater than 0.04.

Legal or not, don't drink and carry.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:31 AM
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I'm not the OP , but as a wild guess , the "other side" would be a generalized intent of " guns are legal , common , and nothing to be ashamed of ".

While this general concept might be acomplished ( with an acceptable level of increased risk ) at certain times , preferably with a planned outing or event, a barroom by one's self is definatly NOT such an occasion.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:35 AM
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Obviously the situation troubled you (you brought it up for discussion), and it should. I've been doing criminal law (first as a prosecutor, then defense) for a couple decades. I can't tell you how many stupid murder cases I've worked on that started out substantially the same way as this one.

It's your life - but you ought to give some serious consideration about doing whatever it takes to avoid such situations. If you were my little brother, I'd admonish you that Step One would be not closing down bars while under arms, let alone moving on to another with a crew of drunks (this is where the charging ADA starts to look at adding conspiracy charges and bumping the killing up to Murder One) . . . .

I'm glad for your sake to hear nothing bad came of this instance, but nothing good happens after nine p.m., amigo. You're right to be concerned - be careful not to allow yourself to be placed in such a situation again.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeamanater107 View Post
Was I wrong to discuss concealing and carrying and letting someone know I carry?
Really? Let me answer your question with a question

How'd it work out the last time (read your OP) you did it?
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:43 AM
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Thanking your lucky stars or perhaps you should thank your guardian angel for working overtime to save your backside from what could have been a very tragic situation.

I am not wanting to pile on, I do want to encourage you to realize you dodged a major bullet and hope you have learned a powerful lesson.

I am very grateful this situation resolved the way it did. I am grateful no one was hurt.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:43 AM
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There is so much 'wrong' in your account of the evening's festivities I know not where to start. But let's start with this: Your new pal is '...an alcoholic (now drinking in your presence) living on a va check each month.' And he has a criminal past, apparently. Yet, in your opinion, '...he's a cool guy.' You, young man, are a poor judge of character even if those were the only issues in your story.

Said 'cool guy' wants to use you gun...the one you told him about...after you closed one bar and adjourned to another. This is remarkable. For the record, I do enjoy a beverage and likely have been in more beerrooms than most folks. That said, I cannot tell you the last one I was in one at closing time...and then went to another. Wow!

You should never have told your drunk pal that you had a gun. Which begs the question: Why did you?

And you should have left immediately when asked for the loan of your gun. IMMEDIATELY.

Based on what you have told us, I fear you have issues that need resolution. Please, for your benefit, consider my thoughts and those of others who have posted. You somehow made it through that evening without getting in big trouble though you essentially begged for trouble.

Do learn from your mistakes; you can, I hope.

Be safe.

Note:

Considered 'apologizing' for my rather severe words/tone. But will not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeamanater107 View Post
So I was with my girlfriend at the bar. I met her friend, Jay. Jay was in the army from 1993-98. We have things in common, as I was in the army from 2008-12. In a random conversation, I mentioned I conceal and carry, which Jay replied he can't because he got in trouble with the law here and there. I understand, as I've also been in trouble, but never once have I been convicted guilty nor have I pled guilty, so my record is clean. He asked about people seeing my gun and I ran him through general behavior. When you see a man you see blue jeans, red shirt, white guy, red beard, and that's it. When you look at him you see from the chest up. Nobody ever sees the slightly odd point in my shirt where I appendix carry a full size ruger sr9. Nobody seems to notice.

The bar closes and we move to another bar. This one has a few guys and a rather attractive girl. Our group was 4 total, but Jay is the only important character in my story. Jay strikes me as a disabled veteran age 39 who is now an alcoholic living on a va check each month. In general he's a cool guy. I'm a 25 year old veteran who is in no way disabled. And all I know about the girl at bar #2 is she's rather attractive from the front and back, wearing tight fitting clothing, and I enjoyed viewing her.

Jay, who has by now had several drinks, approached me and asked if he could "borrow my piece." His words, not mine. He made some sort of explanation that I ignored about the girl and some guy that sounded to me like a bar fight was brewing. If I'm alive, the answer is no. I tuned back in and gathered Jay wanted to "make a statement." I let Jay know that pulling a gun is a death threat, and no matter what the outcome is the cops will be here soon if you pull a gun. I figure Jay has 3 options. Put $30 on the bar and leave now, avoid the group and don't look at the girl or the boyfriend all night, or get into the group and end up in a bar fight.

Jay then asked if I could "make a statement" with my gun. I told him no, since using a gun to bully people is still a death threat which still leads to cops when there's a variety of other options and its not my fight. I told Jay if he goes over there with my gun, He gets arrested and my gun is gone. If I make the statement I get arrested and my gun is gone. Either option can be avoided by standing over here or leaving.

Jay then attempted to tell me the whole story saying it's the girl talking smack and such And pushing people around... I asked him is pulling a gun the answer to someone thinking they're cool? He didn't think so. Off topic, thank God for background checks. At this point I'm glad Jay can't conceal and carry.

About 10 minutes later I found my excuse to leave and I was gone.

Going back over the situation, I know I'm right in not loaning out my gun. And I know I'm right in not bullying someone with my gun. I'm pretty sure I'm right in leaving and removing the gun on my belt from whatever situation was about to happen. And I really don't care what this rather attractive girl was saying, since I don't even know her name nor was I interested in learning it. Was I wrong to discuss concealing and carrying and letting someone know I carry? To me discussing guns is like discussing the weather. They're items legally purchased. Its a sport played by a bunch of people. Its an interest of many. But personal defense is like personal hygiene. Everyone does it, and some people's routine stinks, but nobody talks about it. Its personal, not public. Not really secret, but not a general topic of conversation.

I see both sides of the argument here. I just don't know which side I agree with more.

the original point and click interface, by Smith & Wesson
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich View Post
Obviously the situation troubled you (you brought it up for discussion), and it should. I've been doing criminal law (first as a prosecutor, then defense) for a couple decades. I can't tell you how many stupid murder cases I've worked on that started out substantially the same way as this one.

It's your life - but you ought to give some serious consideration about doing whatever it takes to avoid such situations. If you were my little brother, I'd admonish you that Step One would be not closing down bars while under arms, let alone moving on to another with a crew of drunks (this is where the charging ADA starts to look at adding conspiracy charges and bumping the killing up to Murder One) . . . .

I'm glad for your sake to hear nothing bad came of this instance, but nothing good happens after nine p.m., amigo. You're right to be concerned - be careful not to allow yourself to be placed in such a situation again.
Thank you for bringing the voice of reason to this discussion, if anything is more volatile than alcohol and gun powder it would be alcohol + gunpowder + testosterone

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Old 04-02-2014, 10:59 AM
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Aw, shucks - thanks, Jim. Honestly, we've all been in bad situations - the key is to evaluate what the problem was and to avoid that sort of thing in the future. Kudos to the OP for being reflective about the whole thing.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:03 AM
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Anyone who carries a gun and takes it into a bar is a fool. A dangerous fool. If you are too afraid to go out drinking without a gun, stay home. You will either wind up in jail or in the cemetery. And I don't care what you think the law in your state is. You sound like a decent person. Now get smart.
Have a nice day.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by twobit601 View Post
Even if it is legal....never consume ANY alcohol if you are carrying a gun.
I didn't. I figure if you don't mix cars and heavy machinery with alcohol because it's dangerous then you shouldn't mix guns and alcohol.

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggfoot44 View Post
I'm not the OP , but as a wild guess , the "other side" would be a generalized intent of " guns are legal , common , and nothing to be ashamed of ".

While this general concept might be acomplished ( with an acceptable level of increased risk ) at certain times , preferably with a planned outing or event, a barroom by one's self is definatly NOT such an occasion.
Yeah the other side of the argument is talking about guns. While everyone agrees the topic that we don't discuss is carrying one. I see now that there's not 2 sides of an argument as talking about guns and conceal and carrying is a different topic that could get you in trouble.

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:18 AM
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Talking about guns and shooting is fine. Talking about concealed carry in the abstract is fine among good company. I enjoy a good conversation about the merits of a snubby versus semi-auto, or ammo for defense, or holster preferences.

However, even amongst the best company I do not discuss or disclose whether I am carrying or not. Even if asked directly I will not answer, even if I am not carrying. No possible good can come of it.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:22 AM
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Talking about guns and shooting is fine. Talking about concealed carry in the abstract is fine among good company. I enjoy a good conversation about the merits of a snubby versus semi-auto, or ammo for defense, or holster preferences.

However, even amongst the best company I do not discuss or disclose whether I am carrying or not. Even if asked directly I will not answer, even if I am not carrying. No possible good can come of it.
I agree with you now. After reading all these replies I see its not two sides of an argument, it's 2 different topics of discussion. Guns and shooting and such is one topic but conceal and carry is another topic entirely. I'll fix that and not talk about it anymore

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:23 AM
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Telling someone that you conceal and carry is a sign of immaturity and of a novice. Once you tell someone, you are no longer carrying concealed. Telling someone you just met in a bar is inexcusable.

You never said if you were drinking or not but I will assume you were because it is hard to do this much wrong while you are sober. Even if you were not drinking, staying with a crowd that's closing bars will lead to nothing good.

You are very fortunate that no one got hurt that night and I hope you have learned something from it, but your title, "I think I'm right" makes me question that. Hopefully after reading the comments here, you will look at your actions in a different light.

We all make mistakes, it is what is learned from them that is important.

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by thebeamanater107 View Post
Yeah the other side of the argument is talking about guns. While everyone agrees the topic that we don't discuss is carrying one. I see now that there's not 2 sides of an argument as talking about guns and conceal and carrying is a different topic that could get you in trouble.

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We're talking about it now...right here. Not at a bar.
You're young, and obviouslly you take your personal defense seriouslly - good for you. Now you have to realize that "legally" ccw puts you in a different category of responsibility. You MUST learn to be smart about carrying, and it's a never ending process.
Pick up a good book (Massad Ayoobs -"Concealed carry" would be a good start) and read it. You'll be glad you did.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:34 AM
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I'm just shaking my head here. I make it a point to never advertise. Even my wife has to ask me if I'm carrying, sometimes.

Sometimes the anti-gun people are right. There are way too many people who buy guns, load them up, and carry them. They envision scenarios in which they'll be the hero and stop a bank robbery and protect the "innocent civilians", somehow thinking that having a gun in a holster transforms them into something other than a "civilian".

A lot of them figure that after shooting 50 rounds through them, they're ready for anything. Hey, I had a fist-sized group at 7 yards! All of those would stop an attacker in their tracks! Damn, I'm good!

What I find myself considering most is that if I ever am in a situation in which there is a holdup, I'll probably be just hitting the floor to avoid the poorly aimed spray of gunfire from some "honest citizen" trying to protect everyone from the bad guy.

I am still really good at the range - against paper and steel that stays where it is - and doesn't shoot back at me. I have no preconceived notions that my time at the range every week trains me for a gunfight. I also am not 100% sure that if faced with a gunfight scenario that I wouldn't just pee all over myself. Hell, sometimes when I laugh real hard, I pee a little, as it is.

I can say that with all sincerity, because I make fun of myself all of the time. If most people were really honest with themselves, they would realize that they're not nearly as good or as smart as they think they are.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:37 AM
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Telling someone that you conceal and carry is a sign of immaturity and of a novice. Once you tell someone, you are no longer carrying concealed. Telling someone you just met in a bar is inexcusable.

You never said if you were drinking or not but I will assume you were because it is hard to do this much wrong while you are sober. Even if you were not drinking, staying with a crowd that's closing bars will lead to nothing good.

You are very fortunate that no one got hurt that night and I hope you have learned something from it, but your title, "I think I'm right" makes me question that. Hopefully after reading the comments here, you will look at your actions in a different light.

We all make mistakes, it is what is learned from them that is important.
I typed up an update on the bottom of the original post, probably while you were typing up this reply. But no, I was not drinking. I don't mix alcohol with cars, so I don't mix alcohol with guns either.

I originally thought I was right to not loan my gun to Jay, and to not bully the girl, and to leave shortly after. But you guys have brought up a variety of things I didn't notice before, so I know I was wrong before the situation happened.

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:46 AM
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We're talking about it now...right here. Not at a bar.
You're young, and obviouslly you take your personal defense seriouslly - good for you. Now you have to realize that "legally" ccw puts you in a different category of responsibility. You MUST learn to be smart about carrying, and it's a never ending process.
Pick up a good book (Massad Ayoobs -"Concealed carry" would be a good start) and read it. You'll be glad you did.
And that's exactly why I post my stories here. So far the situations I've been in and typed up here came with a wave of criticism. I read it, get a little embarrassed, and fix what I did wrong. This time is no exception.
I fully understand that I'm young and dumb. So I did my best with the later part of the scenario and felt good that I avoided what could have been a murder, and surely would have been jail time. And then you guys picked me apart at all the other times I could have avoided the ridiculousness.

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:48 AM
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A secret weapon is precisely that.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:49 AM
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Being young and dumb is better than being old and dumb. At least you got out before you got in over your head. I will bet that you don't do that again.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:51 AM
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Being young and dumb is better than being old and dumb. At least you got out before you got in over your head. I will bet that you don't do that again.
And at least I type my stories in here with the intent on learning and improving myself. Others don't. Just imagine if I continued thinking I was right and went out and did this again!

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Old 04-02-2014, 11:59 AM
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Sorry to jump back in and pile on but this statement raises a few concerns.

"originally thought I was right to not loan my gun"

Thought you were right, there should have been absolutely no question about NOT loaning your gun. I mean really, in a bar with a drunk you don't really know who told you he has had problems with the law!
Sorry to offend but how did you get a CC permit with thinking like this?
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:01 PM
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And at least I type my stories in here with the intent on learning and improving myself. Others don't. Just imagine if I continued thinking I was right and went out and did this again!

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I think you got it pretty good and you "get it".
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:31 PM
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Sorry to jump back in and pile on but this statement raises a few concerns.

"originally thought I was right to not loan my gun"

Thought you were right, there should have been absolutely no question about NOT loaning your gun. I mean really, in a bar with a drunk you don't really know who told you he has had problems with the law!
Sorry to offend but how did you get a CC permit with thinking like this?
I either typed that wrong or you read it wrong. I'm correct in not loaning my gun. I'm correct in not pulling my gun. I originally thought I handled the situation well, but now I know I make a variety of bad moves before I denied a drunk man my gun.

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Old 04-02-2014, 12:32 PM
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Anyone who carries a gun and takes it into a bar is a fool.
Haven't had a drink in close to 32 years. Sat in the bar at Texas Roadhouse 2 weeks ago eating a cheeseburger with my wife. Aside from the fact that I didn't order a steak, how does that make me a fool?
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:50 PM
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For the sake of clarification, in Louisiana, the cut off limit on blood alcohol is .05 , not .04. Once a permitee reaches .05, their carry permit is considered invalid and therefore they can't carry. I always teach(preach) if you carry, don't drink. If one knows they are going drinking, leave your gun at home and take a cab to avoid a DWI arrest as well. Bob!
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:10 PM
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Haven't had a drink in close to 32 years. Sat in the bar at Texas Roadhouse 2 weeks ago eating a cheeseburger with my wife. Aside from the fact that I didn't order a steak, how does that make me a fool?
I wondered about that too, but I'm not engaging this man on that topic. I was shooting pool And eating wings and fries, hanging out at a "bar and grill." I wasn't drinking, other people were, and none in my group of girls was drunk since they all had to work the next day. We met up and hung out for 2 hours, and I met jay and Mike. One of the girls in my group was dating Mike but she dumped him last night because of other things that happened after I left him and Jay at the bar. Those events have made Jay and Mike not in the group of friends anymore.

Sure, I didn't need a gun. The vast majority of us will never need a gun. But there may be one day where I might need a gun, and that's why I carry. Also if some people carry, the gangsters leave. One time I needed a gun due to a snake in the woods. I had one. Not because I felt unsafe in the woods, but because I always have one.

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Old 04-02-2014, 01:11 PM
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Haven't had a drink in close to 32 years. Sat in the bar at Texas Roadhouse 2 weeks ago eating a cheeseburger with my wife. Aside from the fact that I didn't order a steak, how does that make me a fool?
Is the Texas Roadhouse a "bar" in Colorado? Here, it's a restaraunt...that happens to have a bar. What difference does it make? It's legal (here anyways) to carry in a restaraunt, even if it has a bar; wheras it's NOT legal here to carry in a "bar" ( or any establishment that makes more than 50% of its revenue from the sale of alchohol).
I wouldn't say it makes you a fool...just someone who's willing to risk losing their ccw priviledge.
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:28 PM
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Don't go to stupid places with stupid people that do stupid things.
I don't know who came up with this originally but I use it in my classes. Makes sense to me! We have all been in situations that ended up being dicey and thankfully emerged unscathed? Sounds like what you have described, glad it worked out, lesson learned.
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