At church this morning (as is the case most Saturday's) helping with various task. Today, it's outside, painting the signpost which is about 25' high. The sign is within 15 feet of the major street that we are located on, so there is traffic and pedestrians on the sidewalk to be conscious of.

I'm working from a step ladder and carrying my Shield 9mm, owb with an un-tucked button up shirt for cover. At one point I reach up with the roller which is attached to a expandable 8' extension pole, and in an effort to reach the very top, my shirt bottom rose above my holstered gun...just as the police were rolling by.

They pull over, back up, exit the vehicle and say 'is that a gun on your hip?
Yes officers, and I have a license [retrieve and present]
Even with this, carrying on church grounds is prohibited.
Except with permission of the senior official - which I have.
Is he here now?
No sir.
So there is no way we can confirm that, now is there?
I have written, signed permission from him in my wallet [retrieve and present]
[Officer reads and hands back]
"Have a nice day sir"
"Thank you officers. You as well"

Whew! Thank God for preparedness.

Is the church thingy a local law? AFAIK, it's perfectly ok in this jurisdiction so long as there are no prohibitions posted by an individual church.

It's law in Michigan that you must have permission from the church officials to carry.

I personally thank God I'm in Arizona where if this had happened the police would probably have waved and drove on by.
Jim

Sounds like you were well prepared. In theory the same thing could happen at my church here in Missouri, although I've never heard of it. We issue permission letters to those approved to carry--after reading your story I'm thinking about switching over to a card that folks can carry in their wallets.

Churches are okay here unless there's a sign. I know in some states it's prohibited and may have been in TN several years ago, before I got my permit.

Some states, like Michigan and Texas, carrying a gun is prohibited without express permission in writing. Good on you to have the proper docs.

The other day I went to the range and on my way home stopped to fill up on gas. As I reached for my wallet, I discovered that I had forgotten it at home. Yeah, you can bet I didn't break any road laws on that trip home.

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Freedom isn't free.

We don't need a letter unless the church has it's own policy. Then I would suspect they will have to find some new members. That's only my opinion.

Not judging (specifically) the OP but I do ponder why someone NEEDS to be armed whilst painting/working about the church...or anywhere else.

I was on the golf course all day. No gun...obviously.

YMMV!

Be safe.

It seems as if the officers might have been nit-picking. You clearly weren't doing anything alarming or questionable, and you had a valid carry permit. I would think that should have been enough? It just seems as if they were looking for a reason to give you a hard time. Lucky for you, you had all of your I's dotted and your T's crossed.

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M&P Shield 9MM

I am glad you are prepared. Yiogo

Do you think people are only targeted for crime while they are in the deepest Ghettos at exactly 12 midnight, on a full moon?

It's one of the Cardinal rules of CCW...either Always carry (whenever completely possible) or don't carry at all. If you pick and choose when to carry, how do you know you are picking the time that you might need to?

Criminals don't care where they assault their victims. Actually, they prefer to do so at times when they think people will be off guard or not expecting it. The times when their future victims say to themselves, "why would I need to carry there?"

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M&P Shield 9MM

I understand why you wonder this. We don't live in Beirut. We live in the US where it's safe to walk the streets. Places like our house of worship and our homes should be safe havens.

Alas, that is not true.

This happened on a Saturday last year: Dancers screamed in terror as gangs began shooting in packed Hackney church - News - Hackney Gazette

This happened less than a month ago: Man was killed in home invasion on his birthday, teenager is injured | Local - Home

Whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, people get shot at work, at church, at play and in their homes. You just don't know when self-defense will be needed. That's why people carry.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convince anyone that they should carry. I'm just saying that we see reasons to carry in the news every day. So, if you're wondering why, just watch the news.

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Freedom isn't free.

Actually in Texas neither a bank nor a Church are off limits to
a CHL holder carrying unless "Proper notice is given". I
think that changed several years back. There are any number
of churches now in Texas that folks carry because of the history
of mass church shootings. Same with banks in Texas. It seems
that both Churches and Banks different states vary. I did not
track down other sites to verify this except just one just now.
Texas CHL Prohibited Places - THR
Proper notice in Texas is a 30.06 sign or if you are asked to leave by owner in any business.

One day I went by a local bank and cashed a check after using
my card, then I went to the next town to run by another bank
and suddenly realized my wallet was missing. I just about
panicked till I remembered that I had not left my vehicle and
had used a card from my billfold, so I then realized I must have
it in my vehicle. Before I remembered that I called home to
have someone check if I had left it at home. This is a symptom
of getting old, for us older people.

Obviously? Why "obviously?"

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

By the way in regard to the first part of your quote, I found this
on other sites as well, one guy has a list he carries around with
him for Texas. So I would not worry about carrying in church unless
I saw the 30.06 sign or unless someone from the church notified me
not to carry. Lots of folks still think you can't carry in a bank too.
I think I will print out the following list and just stick it in my billfold.

Texas CHL Prohibited Places
1. On premises of 51% establishments.
2. On premises of high school, collegiate or professional sporting event.
3. On premises of a correctional facility.
4. On premises of hospital or nursing home, without proper authorization, if proper notice is given.
5. In an amusement park, if proper notice is given.
6. On premises of established place of worship, if proper notice is given, or you have received actual verbal notice.
7. At any meeting of a government entity, if proper notice is given.
(“Proper Notice” means the 30.06 sign)
(Premises does not include parking area)
There is also information on the following website about
our current restricted carry places.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ? Gun Law Information Experts

It would be nice if we had one nice list on one sheet of paper
that lists all the prohibited carry places we could just carry around with us. It would be easy for someone to think just
because he can carry one place in one state its okay to do so
in a state that has a reciprocal agreement, but that is NOT THE
CASE. Its a pain having to research different states when you
get ready to travel in one.

But if that main site that lists reciprocal states could add a
feature to be able to click on a list print out the reciprocal
prohibited carry places that would really be a nice feature.
I certainly would like to have a small printed list of the prohibited
carry places for the reciprocal states to Texas.

I also have been picking and choosing for over 50 years. Guess I just have been lucky.

Most people will never encounter a situation when they will need to draw or use their weapon in self defense. Based on that fact, why do you ever carry in the first place?

It's not about the 99.9% of the time that most people will never need it. It's about the slim chance that one day someone might need it. How do you know when that time will be or if you are that person? So you played the odds and have come up un-needing for 50 years like almost everyone else...congratulations. People CCW so if they ever find themselves in that situation...no matter how slim of a chance it might be, they will be able to defend themselves and their loved ones. Do you have a crystal ball to see if or when that might be? What would you say to the people that have defended themselves and their loved ones in situations that you think they shouldn't have needed to?

Winning a lottery that 99.9% of the people that play will also win is nothing to brag about. Just remember 0.1% won't win. Do you want to take the chance of being in that 0.1%?

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M&P Shield 9MM

I never said I didnt need a gun. I was lucky and had one several times when I needed one. I spent 35 years working security and was armed. Two days ago I hit a poor fawn with our UTV far back in mountains and had to put it out of its misery. 73 years old and have had to pull but not use it more than a couple times. I see no need to have one in arms reach of the shower or when I mow. Do you have or ever had kids? Did you arm them when they go to school or out for a malt? Were they not just as much at risk in there goings as you? How about your wife when she shops? Does she pack? If not, why not? Is`nt she at as much risk and probley moreso than you? She`s got to be cuter. Yeah, I know these are stupid examples but no more stupid than your jumping to conclusions about me. Got a aged mother? Does she pack? Fine if she does but if she doesnt why on earth would you allow her not to? I do have a CC permit. I do usualy throw a gun In my vehicle when I go some place. Maybe some times I dont. I dont live in bagdad or detroit. I have lived in high crime areas, I dont now. You dont know me and I dont know you. Dont jump to conclusions. Get 35 years of security, police or similar work, 73 years of a colorful life, come back and we will talk.

Google "Mary Shepard" and "Illinois Church". That's why. She was beaten and left for dead during a robbery at her church in rural southern Illinois.



Downstate woman became concealed carry icon - chicagotribune.com


Woman sues the state Illinois after attack at church, gets one of first IL concealed carry licenses


----

And if you are carrying a golf bag, can't you disquise a long gun in there?

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John

I hear you. That is why Arizona is on my list of potential retirement places. Last night I attended my high school class reunion. Classmates were here from all over the country. One of them, now in L.A. suggested that I move there. I told him there was NO WAY that was ever going to happen, though I didn't tell him why.

Don't let Big D fool you - I think the comment was sarcasm.
And if I'm not mistaken he has a LEO background, and thus, certainly knows the need to be armed whenever possible.

As for me, until my crystal ball gets back from the repair shop I will be carrying wherever I am legally allowed (including at home)...that way I KNOW I'm covered if the need arises.

Yep, probably just sarcasm. But we do not want folks from
other states that own gun companies or who have gun permits
from crossing Texas off our list. Your perfectly okay to carry
them in Churches or Banks in Texas without the 30.06 sign
unless they pick you out and inform you otherwise.

And besides the criminals down here, rob whoever has money.
That includes churches. Any number of mass shootings at Churches shows, that the criminal elements do not cross Churches off their lists. Any source of an ATM machine will do
whether its in a bad neighborhood, good neighborhood, golf course or church will do just as well.

I will be okay with that unless them traveling missionaries
come openly carrying and telling me I have to go to church.
Most criminals here in Texas are recycled ones, in the news
every month, basically commit the same crimes out of habit.
Now that we are getting twice as many gang members coming
in across the southern border, I don't expect they will cross
churches off their list either.

Likewise in Ohio.

Michigan law does not require permission be in writing, just that the senior official allows it. Asking him to sign a letter was just my way of covering myself if the need ever arose. He has stated from the pulpit that he has no problem with people concealed carrying as long as they have provided the church office with evidence that they are doing so legally.


I had a similar experience recently. Drove about three miles to get some flowers from a nursery. Forgot that I had changed pants after work, and my wallet (along with my drivers license & cpl) was in my other pants. When I went for my credit card I realized what had happened. The cashier probably thought the panicked look on my face was because I couldn't pay for the flowers. (Nope...that was EASILY solved by calling my wife and having her give a credit card number to the lady.) I had a glock23 on my hip...and no cpl on my person That I also didn't have my drivers license was of "little" concern. LOL Yeah, that was one careful drive home.

Reminds me of a story I heard several years ago at one of our Tennessee Firearms Association meetings. The guest speaker was a prominent local Minister well known for advocating the legal carry of self defense weapons.

He and some friends were playing golf. Somewhere on the back nine and away from just about everything, a young man approached the group, pulled a gun and demanded money. Thinking quick one of the group said "You may have a hard time explaining this to that cop walking up behind you." Naturally the BG turned around to see. There was no police officer. But when he turned back around he found himself staring into the barrels of four guns.
He surrendered without a fight.

The Preacher swears this is a true story. His point was ALWAYS CARRY.

Protected One is a smart guy.

My post was somewhat 'tongue in cheek,' and I don't always carry...but I usually do.

That said, I never have carried on a golf course. My game is bad enough I may be tempted to cause myself harm.

And I flew to Boston last week for a quick two day visit for a wake/funeral. DID NOT CARRY THERE. Flew the US Airways Shuttle; didn't want to check a bag for scheduling reasons. That was the sole reason I did not.

Be safe.

I think the police were wrong to stop and ask you for your permit. It should be no difference than driving a car. Do the police stop everybody they see driving a car to see if they have a license?

Yes, you have.

Glad everything worked out well for you. Always best to follow the law. Happily you had your necessary documentation available. Good lesson for everyone.

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<><

I can't believe a comment like this in a thread on the concealed carry & self-defense forum.

I can't believe you didn't read the entire thread before posting.

Be safe.

That law makes absolutely no sense. Isn't it Michigan that has laws that treat pellet guns as firearms?

I hope you removed you gun unloaded it and put it in the trunk.

If you had been walking you could have just tucked in your shirt and opened carried. If stopped for no reason are not required to provide ID in Michigan. In a traffic stop you do have to provide ID. Michigan does not have a law that prohibits open carry.

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Carpriver.

I will be going to the U.P. in a few weeks, at which time I will be open carrying. But there is no place I go down here in S.E. Mich that I would even consider open carrying.

I just carry the letter in my wallet.

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Stay protected my friends.

I am glad you were prepared Protected one.

The cops in your town must not have much to do.

Thats not a bad thing.

Wingmaster

LOL! It was in Detroit.

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Stay protected my friends.

Right on OP! Good on you for having everything in place. I carry everywhere I go and forget I am sometime. I pocket carry a BG380 and the other night I woke up and it was in my flannel PJs. Went from TV in the den straight to bed .

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I'm Proud To Be An American!

I remember when I lived in Ft Lauderdale, FL, a golfer was robbed and killed on the course.

That's not exactly "par for the course".

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Stay protected my friends.

LOL. You're worse than me. When I'm watching TV my Glock23 is on the table beside me, and it goes to the nightstand at bedtime.

BG380 is what I carry INSIDE church, but when I'm outside...I go a little bigger.

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Stay protected my friends.

Is CC prohibited in Post Offices?
I looked for a sign but have not found one in my local PO.

In Ohio it's prohibited in all goverment buildings

You may not carry on post office property, including the parking lot and grounds, even if it is in a locked container[39 CFR 232.1 l] See Concealed-carry in a post office may lead to rude awakening | Buckeye Firearms Association for more info.

Yes, it must be posted, but I guarantee you it is. I went looking for it in my local post office. I found the posting, but it wasn't easy. It was on a bulletin board towards the back of the public area. The notice was an 8.5"x11" piece of paper in #10 font so, it wasn't obvious.

Don't try to carry in a post office and claim that you didn't know. It is common knowledge that you can't carry there and that's how the courts will rule. You might be able to claim ignorance on the parking lot part, but I still wouldn't try it.

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Freedom isn't free.

Exercising their right to carry. Big D......shame on you for stirring the pot.

Your just lucky that you weren't raped, robed, attacked, beaten, or accosted in any way.

Be safe out on that golf course.

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John

Used to, now it states a firearm, propelled by smokeless powder.

We've had a few pro gun laws passed in the last 10 years.

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John

Unfortunately, every state is different in where and when you can carry.My permit is good anywhere in NY, except any town, state or federally owned property or facility, and the 5 counties that make up NYC.

It is prohibited in all Federal buildings.