Here's a goofy question.

If you get in a situation that you need to leave your gun in the car and you have no locking glove box or safe but you feel uneasy about leaving your gun.

Would taking removing the slide and the magazine and taking those with you, basically change the law of having a firearm in the car, since all you left was the frame?

Any opinions?? or am I crazy? (Yes I've done this and I'm buying a safe for the car)

The safe is a good idea.

Safe is a good idea. IF nothing else put a good quality lock on it (not a cheap-*** freebie gun lock) and put it someplace not obvious, or even lock it to something fairly solid in the car. A gun safe for the car is not an unreasonable idea.

"Would taking removing the slide and the magazine and taking those with you, basically change the law of having a firearm in the car, since all you left was the frame?"
It would not change the law. According to ATF the parft with the S/N, usually the frame is the firearm. However it would rendeer the gun useless

Bad idea. In NY (at least in some counties) they will revoke your concealed carry permit (and you will then not be able to possess your handguns) if you lose a handgun due to theft from it being unattended in a vehicle. If there is a safe in the car and car gets stolen, same thing.

And once a thug gets your frame, he can easily go buy a clip, barrel and slide.

I bought one of these. It seems sturdy enough and it hides under my seat quite well.

Academy - GunVault NanoVault 200 Handgun Storage Safe

Was watching TriggerTime TV and learned what those cable locks that come with guns are for. You use them to lock your gun to the framework under your seat.

If we are talking about quick trips around town during the day a simple cable lock around the gun locked to the frame of the seat would be OK.

Its doubtful someone who was committing a smash and grab would even notice it, let alone have a pair of bolt cutters and take the time to cut it in broad day light, but you never know these days...

Parking for long periods, at night or in sketchy neighborhoods I would definitely invest in something more secure...

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

In the trunk under the mat or spare tire ??

NOT A GOOD IDEA to leave Firearms in any car regardless of HOW you do it!. In the "PR of NY" it is also illegal and would trigger instant revocation of CCW if caught.

In an absolute emergency situation that was unavoidable, the more you could do to render it unusable the better off you would be. IE: removal of magazines, unloading, taking apart, locking, hiding, etc.

I have one in each car, and have been well satisfied. A bit less than $40 iirc

Once in awhile I have wraped a nasty looking greasy rag or handkerchief around the gun and just put it in the door pocket of my truck.

I put one of these in my vehicle last year.
It is a custom made safe for your vehicles console.
It takes about two minutes to install with a screwdriver.
Console Vault | Buy Direct For Lowest Price + Free Shipping
It comes in handy if I have to briefly leave my gun in the car
when I go to the post office or other place where I am
prohibited from carrying.

Stu

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NRA Benefactor/Cert Instructor

I don't like leaving my gun in a vehicle but have to when going into a post office or other Federal building on business. I do have one of the steel vaults with a cable in my truck and another my brother gave me last Christmas. I once had a cell phone stolen out of my Jeep I thought I had locked but possibly not. It does happen and even in the best of neighborhoods.

Fortunately for most, NY is not the great example of gun laws to follow. If you carry a firearm regularly, at some point you will find it necessary to leave a firearm in your car. If the firearm is locked in a safe, or locked to the seat, you have done all you can really do.

Not sure why NY would see a firearm stolen from a safe in a car any differently than a firearm stolen from a safe in a home. In both cases, the firearm owner is the victim...

Just throw it in the glove compartment and lock the car. I don't think any more about it.

As we all know locks are designed to cause honest folks to remain honest, having made that statement I'll relate to you my story.
I bought a lockable box similar to the one pictured although larger, had two handguns and my GPS unit and other valuable to me items stored in the Trunk with a similar cable secured around the hinge of the trunk lid and back to the lockable safe. Next morning everything seemed normal until I went to open the door, it was not locked and the center console had been left open and the Safe had been removed from the trunk by cutting the cable.
My recommendation is to never leave any firearm in your auto since there is no way to absolutely stop a thief who is after your stuff unless you catch them in the act. The laws that require us to have to leave a gun in the car are not well thought out by those who write and pass them.

__________________
Sam
S&WHF 333 S&WCA 2198

Many posts, but if no one else said it--the FRAME is the firearm. You would still have to meet all the legal requirements of having a firearm in the vehicle.

New York City, alone, averages 500 vehicle thefts daily. With those kinds of stats, you have to be insane to leave a gun in the car for any reason.

If you daily activities are such that you may not have a firearm at times such as visiting a post office, school, or your employer forbids them on his site, it's best to leave the gun at home. I know one high school teacher, who, along with a friend, left their handguns in a car in a restricted-access high school parking lot as they planned to go shooting after school. When they came out, they discovered that the car was gone along with its entire contents.

The only exception I would make is if you can keep the car within view.

Here is a review I wrote on the Club Personal Vault
The Club Personal Vault

I am still very satisfied with it and have also used it in motel rooms that had something permanent that I could attach it to.

What if we take the word "auto" and change it to "home"? The logic and statement still remains true... there is no way to absolutely stop a thief.

My recommendation is to never leave any firearm in your home since there is no way to absolutely stop a thief who is after your stuff unless you catch them in the act.

Point being that in your home or your car, all you can do is take some steps to try to prevent theft, or at least make it more difficult. But if someone breaks into my home or my car and steals my firearm, I am still the victim of the crime and should not be punished for it.

So you would recommend that you go unprotected to and from these places? There is a principal at a school in Mississippi who stopped a school shooting with a handgun he retrieved from his vehicle. I bet he would disagree with your opinion.

According to an attorney that teaches the CCW course here in AZ and also specializes in criminal defense, in Arizona you are obligated to take reasonable care if you leave a firearm in a vehicle. If you leave it in plain view, or unlocked in a door pocket, you may be held responsible for a number of charges, up to and including any crimes committed with the weapon.

If you secure the weapon in a safe or other locking device you have met the burden of reasonable care. If someone defeats your safe or locked box you're not responsible.

I personally have a portable safe similar to the one shown above, except it's a combo lock. The safe is cabled to the frame of the drivers seat and is hidden from view under the seat. I keep a spare 9mm in it just for added security. I have another safe under the passenger seat that's empty should I need to lock up my EDC.

NYC is an anomaly and hardly a representative example in my opinion. For every New York there are thousands of cities and towns where the odds of your vehicle getting jacked are much lower.

The bottom line is that you have a right to protect yourself and your loved ones. As long as you take steps to secure your weapon in the vehicle, outside of gun hating states like NY, MA, CA, etc. you won't have a problem.

NYC auto theft statistics (or anything about NYC for that matter) do not matter unless one lives in.....wait for it.....New York City.

I live in a small, extra urban town surrounded by countryside. The nearest city is 15 miles away and its crime statistics (particularly auto theft) are nowhere near close to those you cite. What's even more important is that those 15 miles may as well be 1500 when it comes the way they isolate my home from the criminal impact from the nearest city.

I am not saying that there is no crime where I live and work. What I am saying is that its likelyhood of occurance is minimal. Moreover, the consequences of a stolen car with a gun here are basically a police report and an insurance claim.

I still leave my pistol hidden in a locked car whenever I cannot have it on me and lose not one second of sleep about it.

I live in a safe suburb.My truck has been broken into twice over a 10 year period,my work trailer has been emptied once.They ripped the doors off of the trailer and shattered the windows in the truck.Its easy to do and at 3am nobody hears anything...
Ask your local pd what they think about leaving guns in cars.

That's an odd definition of safe. Not to mention the fact that this thread is not about leaving firearms in cars parked outside overnight.......

I couldn't care less what my local police (or any police department) thinks about guns in cars or any place else. If it were up to most police chiefs/administrators, we would all be 100% unarmed.

I think you might want to rethink "safe" if this is what you are dealing with. Not sure anywhere is "safe" anymore because evil is everywhere, but like the analogy made earlier about your house, all you can do is take reasonable precautions.

I was making a point about how simple it is to break in to a car.Where do you think
these clowns get most of their guns?

According to DemocRATS they buy 'em at gun shows and through dealers...

From a quick Google search on "guns stolen from police cars", it seems like many police officers leave firearms in their vehicles...

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&g...om+police+cars

Holy ****! When the bad guys are swiping guns from the good guys what's next?!

As Troy would say - CHOOT 'EM!

It is relatively simple to break into a house as well... Looking the statistics, , more firearms are stolen from homes than autos.

Bureau of Justice Statistics Firearms Stolen during Household Burglaries and Other Property Crimes, 2005-2010

"About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year— about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes."

biglos:

No, you're not crazy for asking your question. These days, even some LEOs I know aren't supposed to carry their firearms even when in uniform - such as when dropping their kids off at school. (When I asked them about this, they told me that the school principal "asked" them not to carry their duty weapons onto the school grounds.)

I don't think much of the small, portable gun safes. I bought one and had no difficulty defeating the lock with a large screwdriver. Also, I'm not impressed with the thin, braided steel cable you're supposed to use to secure the safe to part of the car. The upside is that they're affordable and better than nothing, but that's about it.

I've made my own gun safe out of a 7.62 mm Army surplus ammo can, a high security (Master lock brand) hasp and high security Master lock, and some very heavy steel chain. I'd guess I have about $40.00 invested in this "safe". I'm waiting for a local welding shop to weld the hasp onto the ammo box, and as soon as they've done this, I'll post photos. My hope is that even the well equipped "smash and grab" thief will take one look at my creation and won't even be tempted to try to hack into it.

By the way, I'm a federal employee and management has made it very clear to all hands that anyone bringing any firearm(s) in the building will be fired. We can leave them in our cars in the parking lot, but that's it.

Good luck,

Dave

Years ago when I lived in california I seen a guy driving down the street with a revolver hanging over his antenna hooked through the trigger guard! He was in slow traffic so I got a good look and he looked terrorized! I could only imagine what that was about. I am guessing he had found the gun and was taking it to the sheriffs station or whatever and was terrorized of guns and what laws were applicable. Now a lot of similar discussions remind me of that incident. I am willing to bet far more static and trouble has been experienced by people so scared of laws when just using common sense and hiding the damn gun under the seat or glove box and getting with their day.
There were times on my job I had people ask me technical questions about company rules, what if`s etc and it was like, I really wish you hadnt asked me that! Now I had to give them the company line or rule that when made couldnt take into every lesser plausible scenario. I bet just about every leo could give a amen to that.
Okay, it could be pointed out that I should know better by the more cautious as I have been on every side of the question. First my job WAS searching cars entering our company etc. I also once had a revolver stolen out of my own truck. That was a long involved deal I wont explain here. Bottom line since I aint a lawyer, leo or guard anymore, just hide the gun and live life. Act hinckey and you will get bit. Ask a leo and he will lower is voice a octave, and very professionally have to tell you what you dont want to hear and he will be wishing you hadnt asked.

I do not own a safe and never leave my vehicle with a gun
inside it, unless I am parked in a street parking place, while
I walk across and pick up mail at the post office. As for leaving it in your vehicle if you park inside a Post Office Designated parking spot, or if you park on federal property it is not legal
to have the gun in your vehicle at all. (except possibly law enforcement). As for it being stolen during that brief time
I walk across the street to the parking lot, that is what I have
car insurance for, which also covers a gun, and additional insurance that covers my guns if stolen. I do keep a list of
the serial numbers just in case one ever is stolen. If someone
wants a gun bad enough a safe won't stop them.

We are not liable for a criminal breaking in and stealing a firearm out of our home or our vehicle at lest not in my state.
I just would not even leave one in a vehicle unless I am compelled to do so resulting from the federal government
not permitting me to carry it with me inside a post office.
I am not responsible for the federal government's decision
on that issue, I just have to obey their law. The safest place
for the gun is to be on me, but someone at the federal level
thinks it is safer for the gun to be locked inside my vehicle
than on me when I walk into a post office.

I do keep the best alarm systems on my vehicles and I would
protect my firearms in them if I were armed. When the federal
government chooses to force me to not carry into a place like
the post office I am left with the choice of just taking reasonable precautions which is a good car alarm system and
keeping any loss I might incur insured.

I think if I were a car thief or a gun thief, that's where I would
go to look for a car to steal, since lots of folks leave their vehicles unlocked.

One day I had a young black man very angrily denounce me
for locking my car door with my remote at a post office.
I learned that day that all I could do was call the police about
it since the post office did not own the street parking.
Of course I was unarmed at that point, so I could have been
carjacked, robbed of my car remote, lost my vehicle and my
gun, but I have insurance. What he does with the gun
afterwards is a matter for the police and the justice department.
I could suggest to them they change that law but I am not
going to hold my breath, because its not going to happen.

We are in the same state... and there are other times that you may have to leave your firearm than just the post office...

I work from home most of the time, but the office I work out of is posted... I have to leave the firearm in the vehicle there.

Schools, post office... Not too long ago I dropped my wife off at Sprouts and I ran next door to Lowe's. After I was done looking at Lowe's, I went back over to Sprout's to meet up with my wife. Guess what, they were posted. Had to leave the gun in the car to go inside and tell my wife that we don't shop there anymore.

Point is that while our state doesn't punish us for theft, others do and that is just wrong.

Yes I can see where that is a problem for you if you work. I am retired so that is not a problem for me. It is not for me since I just do not go where something is posted. As for the post office the feds causes that problem, so they can deal with it.
I just wish I could force them to deliver mail at my apartment
but like many post offices in Texas mine will not. So for that
few minutes of time I have to lock it up, go inside and get my
mail. As for other states if I am going there, I am not heading for a post office.

40% from friends and relatives. 40% from illegal street sales. 11% by theft and 3% from gun shows.

That's a great idea, the ammo can thing! I'd love to see your creation!

I truly do appreciate everyone's input, perceptions are a learning curve for me and I do love getting the input. I do agree, I do not like leaving my firearm in my vehicle at all. This one situation is when I had to go into a establishment for an hour or so and had no safe in the car. Now there's a Gunvault NV300 I bought for times like that, but I would never leave my firearm there overnight.

Thanks for your input!

I wouldn't go in if I felt that uneasy. I never leave home without it but if I had to go where they weren't allowed a box like recommended fits my bill. Most newer vehicles have alarms built into them nowadays, at least the ones I've owned. Heck if not buy one and install it. Remember a determined thief won't stop and no alarm or locked box with keep them from getting what they want. It may slow them down though.

When I was a federal employee we weren't allowed to bring any firearm or bow or ammunition, hatchet, pocket knife etc. on base. Look how well it protects military bases.

Any lock or cable can be broken, cut or just taken away. You will be considered in most states that have any kind of sense, if you use the lock boxes properly installed, doing you part to protect your firearm.

You didn't state what state you live in and I'm sure all states have different opinions. Heck I remember years ago we use to have gun racks hanging in the back window but those days are gone for good.


Heck from another post the police in LA can't keep them attached to their MC's with Velcro.

__________________
Psalm 23:4

Amen to that brother!

__________________
Music/Sports/Beer fan

After reading this thread earlier in the week, I ordered one of these. It came today and is now installed in my truck. Without commenting as to the whys or wherefores of its possible uses, i can say that it is of very good craftsmanship and design. Whatever one might chose to lock inside will be much more secure than putting it in the glove box or slipping it under the seat and hoping for the best. Perfect solution? No. But definitely a step in the right direction if you need to leave something important behind in the vehicle...

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Why not just use the glove box and lock it? Don't see much difference (other than the location)

Can't recall seeing a car with a glove box that doesn't lock.

This is precisely why I do not have an NRA sticker on my vehicle. It announces to the world that there MAY BE a firearm within.

I have one (Honda).

And even if it did lock, none of them offer any resistance to a crow bar.

I think it's better than nothing! But a safe would be a better option...Under the seat and in pieces should be enough though.

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Still just a kid at heart

Let me see, if I am picking up my mail, my car is locked with
an alarm system. And say I make it to the car without getting
mugged walking from the post office to the vehicle on the
street. And these shifty characters are following me, and I
can't outrun them. And I quickly get inside my vehicle just as
one of them smashes my window open to carjack me.

And then I reach for that option that is not concealed on me
but is under the seat. And I grab the pieces, and attempt to
assemble them while the guy starts hitting me in the head
with the hammer. I guess I forgot to bring my hard hat.
I don't think this option of having it locked under my seat
in pieces is going to turn out that well for me if it really
hits the fan.