AWARE,PREPARE,AVOID…
Simple:
AWARE of Surroundings
PREPARE for conflict
AVOID potential contact and conflict.

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Six rounds,load and holster!

[quote=TexasArmed;138053185]Exactly. I can remember when entering the country illegally would get an arrest and deportation order.....
A family in League City died last night, and it is getting worse.

.......
ABC 13 in Houston reports that a car accident that killed six people, including a family of four, was caused by a man who was believed to be in the country illegally.
Juan Garcia Ahuezoteco fled from the police at up to 100 miles per hour after he was pulled over for a traffic violation, and ran a stop sign, causing him to crash into a family of four. The family, Ahuezoteco, and his passenger were are all killed in the accident. “Ahuezoteco had an outstanding felony warrant for Driving While Intoxicated” according to ABC 13.
The station also reports that Ahuezoteco's girlfriend, who says she was on the phone with him during the chase, told them that Ahuezoteco was afraid of being deported.
..........

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Halfway and one more step

In regard to statistics about violent crime...many of them are reported on a per capita basis.

Our capita has been steadily growing and this certainly impacts our statistics, one way or another.

We are legion.

[quote=TexasArmed;138053185]We were in Chicago 2 or 3 summers ago, staying downtown, and there were at least two flash-mob attacks during the week that resulted is bad beatings. TV cameras and police everywhere. I remember photos of the victims with missing teeth looking very beat up. It was a little disquieting to realize entering a few characters on a keypad could so easily incite large scale criminality, violence, and terror. I was amazed you could, apparently, so easily get so many "people" to participate in such an act. This really put a new spin on "organized crime" for me.

The above link to the apparent manipulation of Chicago crime statistics is interesting.

I will share with you three different experiences I have had during "major malfunctions". I was a SWAt team leader deployed to LA during the Rodney King riots....my team had an assigned grid that we patrolled from 2100hrs to 0900 hrs....it was at ground zero of the unrest....armed property owners and armed citizens were able to protect themselves, their families and their property...those that didn't became victims.....the police could not begin to handle the magnitude of violent and predatory behavior.
In August of that same year my team was deployed to Miami during hurricane Andrew....pretty much same scenario....armed citizens were on their own to protect themselves and their families from predators.....one of the most valuable commodities in this scenario was potable water....at one point we were escorting deuce 1/2's stacked with bottled water to prevent gangs from stealing the water before it got to the ravaged neighborhoods.
June of 2008....the little berg that I live North of was flooded by a rain of biblical porportions and then a levee failed....I spent an entire day in my 12 ft jon boot rescuing friends who had their homes flooded and were unable to flee due to the depth of the flood waters....during the course of the day, there were three separate attempts by different folks to "commandeer" my boat.....my refined interpersonal communication skills, the presence of a side arm and an M-4 prevailed.
The bottom line is and was: when the police presence is gone, then you are on your own....plan accordingly.

... I am SO stealing this...

Yeah, sad. And I wonder every day when they start hijacking tanker trucks filled with gasoline or diesel. Or bread trucks...


Not just when they are gone, even when they are there. I say it since years now, you can't rely on other people to come to the rescue.... in time! So when SHTF you ARE on your own.

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Jorge

I have the hunchback up on the roof keep the huge vats of oil boiling 24/7. You never know when you might need to deep fry some looters, Plus the alligators in the moat prefer the light crispy texture. The beer batter coating was logistically too much trouble.

The goal should be to prepare for realistic short term occurrences and circumstances rather than a 20 year long zombie apocalypse or other absurd fantasies like most "Preppers".

There is no one size fits all plan because what you could possibly experience in the Midwest is very different from what happens in large cities like L.A. and New York. Even during relatively rare exceptional events like Katrina, the L.A. Riots and some of the things going on in the St.Louis area, you can't behave as if in you're in a anarchy war zone since you're still bound by the law. My suggestion would be to not live in such places if the thought of civil unrest is worrisome to you.

.my refined interpersonal communication skills, the presence of a side arm and an M-4 prevailed.
.[/QUOTE]

Lots of good, reasonable discussion here. Some good quotes and thoughts.
This one sticks with me, especially the lesson of how one can refine their interpersonal communication skills.

Except for the meth problem, a best idea seems to avoid the large masses of people.

I can't? If its my property, my home, I can take whatever steps are required to defend it. The law does not do the victims
of such violence much good when they send out the morgue truck. If looters are breaking in on you and your inside, looks
to me like you got only two choices. Let them kill you or defend yourself.

The dust bowl, Pearl Harbor, 911, huricane Andrew / Sandy / Katrina, countless tornadoes, riots over shootings, riots over sport teams, and power outages of the entire eastern seaboard were not just in places like. New York or Chicago.
It doesn't matter where you live, civil unrest can happen any time anywhere.

Being prepared is the only "smart" thing to do. The 3 U's (unplanned, unexpected,unaware) will "hurt" you. Remember, the police will respnde "after the fact" -- in the mean time, YOU are the "first responder".

I lived through a hurricane named Katrina , 2005 in New Orleans , La.
I have seen what can happen during a disaster, I have seen what people can do and how they act. I have witnessed this first hand.
The first thing I did, after getting to Baton Rouge was purchase 2 boxes of buckshot for my 12 gauge (had plenty of birdshot) and a 45 cal. handgun. I am now prepared! It could happen again.
Gary

Excellent point and a good example of the saying about lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Another useful statistic would be how many people are only taking and not giving? Even if no external event or trigger occurs - what happens when our system of entitlements collapses under its own weight? I am not even talking about whether any or all entitlement programs are good or bad or indifferent - but it sure does seem like we are on a path that will most assuredly result in a majority of the population not producing anything of value and if you then yank the support system of government payouts from under them you may very quickly have a nationwide unruly mob of looters etc.

Somehow we need to get back to a standard where the overwhelming majority of citizens are contributing to the health and growth of our nation.

Having ammo to defend a position only gets you so far if you are facing a mob with molotov-cocktails - how long will your ammo last if your house is burning down?

The rest of your life?

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Retired Career Security Guard

I was doing some research on Savage pistols earlier today and ran across this:

Savage Pocket Automatic Model 1907 - Specifications

It is absolutely amazing to read - you could almost take off the 1907 date, and put 2014 on it and it is still valid.

(It's all interesting, but especially the first 8 pages appropriate to this thread)

I grew up in an all Small Midwestern town with a population of 300 all white church going folks. Civil unrest per the modern definition simply does not happen and will not under any likely REALISTIC circumstances. Folks there know their neighbors and will actually work together in times of crisis. Look at Joplin etc. That doesn't mean nothing can happen, but I've also lived in Chicago and that place is a completely different story and I prepare accordingly based on the location and probability and specific type of problems.

My point was you just can't go around shooting or executing people that do not pose a direct threat to you. You would be charged and prosecuted once the chaos subsides as unusual. There is no free to kill pass just because there is rioting going on. Many of the paranoid fantasy/ zombie apocalypse types think they are going to be running and gunning it out with mobs and gang members with a tricked out AR in the streets, but such thinking is delusional and childish.

]]
'
My point is here in Texas our State law provides the right to
use deadly force to protect our property. That is exactly what
I would do. I certainly will not allow anyone to burn it or to take it without a gunfight unless I run out of bullets.


As for you, you do what you like. As for me and mine, I protect
my life, my family and my property. That is section 9.42 of the Texas
Statutes. And no, rioters and looters do not get a free pass to take my
property just because there is rioting and looting going on.
And no I will not turn in my weapons just because some guy
issues some executive order.

Setting internet bravado & machismo aside for a moment, protecting your property even in Texas is not a right that is absolute. If you shoot & kill someone for stealing a lawn dwarf, you will be charged... even in Texas. I would hope anyone would do anything in their power to avoid taking another human life. That doesn't mean protecting yourself or your family any less, but there is no need to go all Joe Horn and kill someone just because they stole a TV.

It?s not about Defending Your ?HOME?? | I.C.E Training Journal

I am familiar with the Joe Horn case. The problem any would be looter will have is getting thru the door alive. Then the problem will be he will be leaking so badly he won't haul the
TV off with him. My property does not belong to looters. They
did not pay for it. They will not walk away with it. There is
no internet bravado involved. I am no different than many other Texans in my state. You want my property, and you try to take it by riot, looting or any other method than lawful, I
will protect it by any means necessary.

Texas State Law specifically gives property owners the right
to protect their property particularly during the night time.
I will do exactly that. I have nothing in my yard to steal. I
won't leave my home if looters are down the street coming my
way. I will defend it to the last bullet. As to whether I would
be tried after refusing to leave my property to looters by running off, I will worry about that when the time comes.
I expect the looters best pick a state besides Texas to try and
loot property.

I have no idea what the law is in Missouri about protecting property, but I know what the law is in Texas. I will not give
in to some pc idea of letting them have it, just to see if it
calms them down. That's like feeding a crocodile tidbits, and
hoping he don't eat you next.

Yeah right! Just like the people that tell women not to fight a rapist and let him just do it so the women don't get killed. Idiots.

Criminal behavior cannot be tolerated, under no circumstances!

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Jorge

Agreed. Pacifying criminals, home invaders and looters just
increases their appetite for me free stuff. I am not in the
psychological counseling business to try to pacify or understand
looters, criminals and home invaders. I will leave that to the
social workers.

My property belongs to me. I chose to live in Texas and in
my state I have the right to protect myself, my family and my
property. I intend to do just that. I will not hesitate or
waiver on my willingness to use deadly force to protect
my property, and in my vehicle. We do not have a special
exemption for looters and rioters in Texas for breaking down
anyone's door. I do not own a business, but if I did I would
be at the business protecting my property as well.

At the same time those who live in Missouri where this
incident happened, they have to know and operate under
Missouri Law. I know the laws in my state and I refuse to
allow anyone to take anything from me by unlawful means.
You can bet if I lived in Missouri I would be checking the
Missouri statutes regarding what means I legally had for
protecting my property there, if I lived where this were
happening.

I hear folks say, they would rather not shoot someone over
a $300 TV set, that a home intruder is taking. How do
they know that's all they will take? How do they know
they are not going to be beaten and killed by the thugs?
I don't intend to allow one past my door to negotiate with
me about what he will or will not take.

Although I don't promote shootings with the intend to kill in non life threatening situations, as soon as someone kicks in the door there's no "hey, lets sit down and talk about!" You simply just never know. Forced entry is obvious.

Not so obvious is they approach you outside the home.
Thugs are up to their game mostly and also rely on the good in people when they approach and play their little "ah excuse me sir/ma'am, can I ask you something?" game. Just to get you robbed, raped or killed. Or all of the above.

My wife likes to watch those criminal investigation TV shows and sometimes I watch with her. W/o being a smarty pants, lots of those murders could have been prevented if one of the victims would have had a gun. Period.

Too many sickos out there. Once the line is crossed, it's crossed!

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Jorge

Or be eaten.

Agree with above, if you are in my house at night you are getting shot, no hesitation. If you walk into my house during the daytime, you will at the bare minimum have a gun pointed at you.

My biggest concern in regards to civil unrest is my job; I'm a security guard on the city contract and I'm positive they're not going to tell us to stay home and watch out for our homes. Also due to recent budget cuts all city security (with a few select exceptions) is now unarmed.

I have no problem envisioning them sticking me on a gate somewhere unarmed and telling me to "maintain order".

The site I work at is very remote and I hope they decide to leave it manned in the event of civil unrest. In that case I would have my family join me there.

My second concern is that our apartment is right next to a 400 unit low income housing project I'm fairly certain that place will look like a war zone if any serious rioting ever starts.

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Retired Career Security Guard

Why does it matter if it's day or night? Shouldn't your response be the same regardless...work the trigger?

Maybe he leaves the door open during the day. Mine are
always double locked. Drug addict folks don't know whether
its day or night. Now I had been thinking about my next gun
which I have always wanted a Smith & Wesson 696 that I could
find at a local gun shop. But now maybe I should reconsider
regarding a long gun or shotgun. I have heard about that
thin metal on the S&W 696 and have waivered maybe toward
a S&W Model 66, instead. Also I have thought about the other 44 Specials.

My security plan is not designed to meet multiple crowds of
looters, or attackers. My plan for home defense is to be able to stop two or three intruders while they are trying to get in,
which I think is more practical and more likely than the other
possibility. In a small apartment with one way in and one way
out, a long gun or shotgun just don't seem as practical as a
handgun to defend myself and my family, when hand guns
offer the additional plus of being able to carry it concealed,
when I leave my residence.

I heard this morning that in the Missouri area that gun sales
have quadrupled, during a morning rant by some mayor against
illegal guns slamming and blaming the gun industry for the
problems in Missouri. I suppose that it will now cost me more to buy my next handgun.

As for it mattering whether it is day or night with home defense, I figure that a criminal is just about as likely to
try and get in during the daytime as during the night. I just
hate to put out the money for a Mossberg Shotgun when that
same amount would buy another good revolver.

At daylight it's easier to see the intruders hands as well as if the intruder/s is/are holding a weapon. That second perhaps safes a life but eventually puts it behind bars...

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Jorge

My doors are not always locked at day so I suppose someone could walk in and maybe it's an accident. At any rate I should certainly be able to see their hands. Like I said at a minimum in this situation you are looking down the barrel.

At night, it's no accident and there's only one reason why you could possible be there.

That's actually not true, there have been two incidents with in the last couple of years where a drunk wandered into the wrong house in Colorado and got shot for it. The law came down on the side of the home owners both times but I wouldn't want to have to carry a killing if I didn't have to.

That said I would respond to any non invited person in my home as a threat and I would use what ever level of deadly force (In Colorado I have used deadly force as soon as I pick up the gun) it takes to ensure the safety of me and my family.

If they run so be it, I am not trained to detain people and I don't want to set myself up in a situation where I'm attempting to hold a criminal at gun point while waiting for the police. That has been known to result in the homeowner being shot by responding officers.

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Retired Career Security Guard

It would be difficult for drunk to wander in at night when my doors are locked...

What bothers me when people start pontificating about their right to shoot to protect their property is they tend to assume that because I've decided that I wouldn't shoot if I saw you running down my driveway with my TV it means I'd stand there and let you take it from my living room.

If your moral compass says it's OK to shoot a fleeing burglar and your local law supports you have at it.

In my state it's crime and I'm not gonna do it.

I also have that replacement insurance where they replace my old TV with a brand new one

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Retired Career Security Guard

I wouldn't shoot either.

But depending on the time of the day and the cloths I wear, I's either case after him via foot or vehicle. Also a perfect time to deploy the cell# everyone has today...

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Jorge

Flooding in Colorado last year brought home severals points.
Water, Food, Power, Safety, cooking or warming food.
Have a good device that will clean the water.
Canned goods(Dinty Moore beef stew)beans, The healthy bars, Serial , rice, etc for a few days, maybe 30. Camping stove, utensils, pots and pans, fuel for it.
Safety, most here have a weapon.
I know there is a lot more to it, but this is basic, IF you can stay in your house.

I don't worry about myself. I'm 69 and have had a good life. I don't worry about my son and daughters. I worry about my darling little granddaughters. They are not close enough for me to get to them quick enough if need be. Can't finish

That's the nice thing about America, nobody forces us to live
in the State we live in. Texas law allows home owners to
used deadly force to protect property, apparently your state
does not. If I did not like the laws in one state I would move
to another where I liked the laws better. If I saw him
during the night time running away with the TV I would not shoot, but could under State law. But if I met him exiting my busted door, he would not be leaving with my TV.

Anyone is free though in Texas to work for a change in our
State laws. It does happen from time to time. I don't have
any problem with the way our laws read. I don't pontificate
about such matters. I just make sure I follow the law until
such time they outlaw guns, in which case I would just become
and outlaw.

With my dead bolted door in my home, there is little possibility
of the intruder getting into my living room before I encounter
him. Since I am not equipped with an arsenal of weapons and
don't have a large gun collection like other posters, I have to
make do with my revolvers. That means stopping them coming
in.

In Arizona, once the intruder crosses the threshold of your dwelling he may reasonably presumed to be a threat to your safety. You may in most cases use deadly force. Burglars just want your stuff and they don't want you to be home when they enter your house. Anyone who knows you're home or doesn't care that you might be home has to be considered extremely dangerous. Good judgment, discretion, and heightened awareness are still called for. You are not required to shoot.

A guy I worked with shot and killed an intruder in his home in the middle of the night. The bad guy was brandishing a weapon of his own. He was completely within his rights and was not charged with any crime. Still, he killed a guy and could not deal with it. He sold the house and moved out of state. We're all human.

Learning to shoot is one thing. We cannot practice killing. When I took my CCW class we were told to understand the aftermath of a legal shooting. It can be very unpleasant.

Just about all the PD's are prepared for such an event, have you seen the armament they have ? I see them at the range daily firing high power weapons that cant be used for any other purpose

Wow for a second I thought I was reading a Diane Feinstein quote

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Retired Career Security Guard

Evaluate the risks in your area and your lifestyle, and plan accordingly. The risks in my area are mostly weather-related, but such a disaster could overwhelm local government public safety resources. We had a "weather event" that caused power outages and closed roads. Local law enforcement (sheriff's office) couldn't get to my rural area. Several of my neighbors and I set up a checkpoint at the entrance to our neighborhood to control access. On the fourth day, an Escalade turned into our street and stopped when the driver saw the sawhorses with red and blue lights. A person in the back seat started to open the door when someone else in the vehicle apparently saw the two of us and said something. The door closed, and the Escalade backed out of the neighborhood. This was at 2:30 in the morning on a Wednesday.

Just plan for what might happen.

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

My philosophy is "We are all going to die, but my family members will not die because we ran out of ammo, food or water".

Being prepared comes in many forms. Drinking water, emergency food, cash without having to go to an ATM.

Somehow I think a store owner in St. Louis would have felt naked with a snubby. That's where something a little more substantial might be advised.

However I dont see one man with an AR15 and Glock fighting off the hordes and angry masses. I do see a small group of well armed neighbors banding together.

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The American dream is alive

I have a hard time with your statement. Being as though I was a State LEO Firearms Instructor. What are they shooting, belt fed, AT 4, 90 mm Recoil, 40 mm HE?

Can you say what your seeing?

If you have good neighbors, yes. I'd like that.

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Jorge

See that scares me too. I look around at some of my neighbors and I could just see them trying to "take command" in a civil unrest situation.

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Retired Career Security Guard

I didn’t expect this thread to generate nearly 100 responses and 2,500 views, but I’m pleased that it opened up a civil discourse and appreciate those who added their thoughts and opinions.

Since I started this, I’d like to chime in with a few follow up comments. First, I believe that the human race is inherently violent, thus millennia of fighting is no surprise. What I am alarmed by however, is a pervasive sense of entitlement amongst many rioters in the last decade or two. During the 1960s, rioting and civil unrest seemed to be rooted in legitimate anger about something, be it race, government, etc. As of late, whether Occupy Wall St., Ferguson MI, or a spontaneous flash mob in Anywhereville, it appears that many participants are there simply because they have an excuse to act out as joiner-inners. Looting stores and burning cars are the actions of greedy and opportunistic thugs more often than not, rather than individuals looking to protest. Such hooliganism happens with regularity after sporting events and championship games … far removed from any “legitimate” reason for angry crowd behavior. These are the people I am most wary of, as their actions show a blatant disregard for lawfulness, as well as a pronounced lack of civility and common sense. The more newsworthy socio-political situations that devolve into riots are often populated by closet anarchists and weekend Socialists starting obligatory trouble because of their hatred of the system. I’m also wary of these cretins, as they are bent on lashing out provided they have a crowd and catalyst incident to hide behind. In NYC during the 1980s, we had numerous acts of “wilding” … the precursor to flash mobs. It was violence committed by packs of thugs acting spontaneously and without provocation. Watching footage of the Ferguson riots, I noted numerous people running through the streets laughing and smiling … they certainly didn’t look like they were protesting or demanding justice. I think given the right excuse to act lawlessly, a crowd will do so, any place, any time.

As to protecting myself and family, I live in a Castle Doctrine state which affords me greater latitude as to what my legal courses of action may be should I be confronted by a threat. I believe PA amended the Castle Doctrine recently to include vehicle and place of business to home, thus the scope of one’s defensive conduct is broader than before. Whether I have a lost drunk break through my kitchen door at 2am or a couple dopers stealing my lawn mower off my back porch at midday, I view trespassers and thieves as threats to myself and loved ones. I don’t have time to conduct an in depth Q&A as to motive, thus my defensive actions/reactions will be commensurate to the threat I face.

With respect to preparedness, my initial thought for this thread was not about supplies (water, batteries, etc.) but rather mental and emotional readiness should civil unrest occur. I have no desire to end up on the roof defending my modest homestead with a Kalashnikov, but that potentiality is far different than my daily CCW mindset. If I walk into a bank robbery or cross paths with a nut job in WMart, a J-frame gets me to safety, not the OK Corral. Rioting and wanton violence in the streets calls for a fortified defensive position and a long gun with plenty of ammo. And yes, I realize the possibility of violent rioting in my town is remote, but the odds of winning Powerball often reach the 100s of millions-to-1 and someone always wins. What are the odds of something triggering societal breakdown in my area, or a similar locale? Far less than those for Powerball. Fortunately, living in a smaller town and fairly rural community allows me some lesser degree of apprehension than residing in an urban/metro area. I’m from the city … now I’m far from the city, exactly where I want to be.

In closing, I will once again thank everyone who contributed to this dialogue. I appreciate hearing differing opinions as much as knowing there are those who share my concerns. We live in an increasingly dangerous and unpredictable world, and staying alert is key to our individual and collective survival and prosperity.

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I'm with the banned ...

This is one of my favorite (convenient) reasons for accumulating so many firearms...I've (secretly) decreed myself "neighborhood armory." And what better way to arm the neighbors than with Smith revolvers all firing the same cartridge?

I see a U-Haul across the way. I should probably go grab a Model 15.

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Because of the metric system?