Hello, As I learned in College, "Politics is Money and who gets it." Make the state pay a price for their behavior. I myself will never travel into or through the state. The law is quite flexible, one can run down and kill multiple people while drunk and get "rehab", while another can commit the unforgiveable sin this woman has and serve ten years. Since the law is not obeyed by the same people that make the law it loses quite a bit of its power.

Yes I know the laws regarding this in my state and obey them. I do however live in a state which has had its governor prosecuted, our county sheriff plead guilty to avoid jail time, our neighboring sheriff served time for selling guns and drugs from the evidence room, our school superintendent was investigated and discharged for exceedingly suspicious use of funds, one of our local bank officials embezzled 1 million dollars and payed a fine of approx. 250,000 dollars, I could continue but you get the point. Perhaps we should riot and vandalize a shoe store, we- as protesters -might get what we demand.

One of the things missing from the usual curriculum in state-mandated CHL classes, is "What are the laws in other states?"
I add that to my Oklahoma CHL classes, and use CA, NJ, MA, and NY as specific examples.
When I describe the laws (and extreme penalties) in New Jersey, many in the class think I am making a sick joke, that no state in the US could treat its citizens that way.
One couple who were getting carry licenses and preparing to tour the NE US in their motorhome learned that they had to leave their guns at home or completely stay out of DC, MD, NJ, etc.

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Science plus Art

Individual state gun laws are easily available all over the Internet. If someone is getting a CHL, CCW, CCP, etc... they need to take the responsibility to find out this information on their own. If they can't take the time to at least find out that little bit of easily obtainable info, they shouldn't be carrying anyway. It's great that you provide this info, but people need to be responsible when it comes to learning about this info because you can't tell them everything about all of the State's laws that they need to know...and you shouldn't have to.

You mentioned part of the real problem in the last part of your post. It's unfortunate that a legally licensed / permitted person has to leave their EDC at home because some individual States won't make provisions in their laws to allow licensed individuals to bring their EDC through a state that otherwise doesn't allow the residence of that state to carry. Such provisions need to be built into each states gun laws in order to be effective. They can be worded however they want, ie. Gun must be separate from ammo, locked in a box in the trunk,...etc...The point is to give someone a chance to do the right thing (follow the laws) while still being able to keep their right to have the firearm for when they are legal to carry it. Federal provisions are usually fine, but in this case individual states seem to do whatever they want and even "IF" a Federal provision is used as a defense, it usually still means an expensive and lengthy court battle before the state will comply. Of course getting states with already ignorant gun laws to allow for these provisions would take an act of Congress...literally, and then we are back to the Federal versus State again.

I guess the bottom line is that ignorant lawmakers will make ignorant laws...just avoid those states for everything whenever possible.

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M&P Shield 9MM

Sounds a little like the ex-Marine jailed in Tijuana on a gun charge. Haven't spent much time in NJ, but from comments made on this thread, it sounds a little like TJ.
Bob

The part of NJ that I'm originally from (10 miles west of the Lincoln tunnel, on route 3) is exactly like Tijuana except for the per capita income. Only by having "proper connections" can you avoid the troubles "regular folk" experience. Anyone who agrees with the "righteousness" of this woman getting the mandatory 42 months in Rahway (or whatever they call it today), well, I'd get banned for speaking my mind. I got plenty of folks back in NJ and in a few months they'll be right thrilled to come thisaway. I sure ain't voluntarily going there. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

In light of this, you're correct. The FOPA will most certainly not protect her. It wouldn't have protected her anyway since her pistol wasn't stored in a not easily accessible area of her vehicle in a secure container.

I was in DC about a week and a half ago for 3 days. It was part of a trip that went from GA through Tenn., Virginia, West Virginia, PA, MD, DC, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and GA again. There was absolutely no way I wasn't going to take my EDC with me. Was I taking a risk in the ignorant (anti-gun) states / DC? Yes. Unfortunately I had to make a choice between being unprotected versus breaking some state laws. It should never have to be that way. I would have been more than willing to comply with each state's (and DC's) gun laws if they would give a chance or a method to do so, but they don't. My first choice (as I have said) is to avoid these states that are anti-defense. But in order to get from one place to another on the highway system and for business reasons, it can't always be done.
It's always a risk to go through anti-gun states but I think most people that play it smart and don't draw attention to themselves make it through just fine. For example, while in DC, I obviously didn't carry. The gun stayed in my luggage in the hotel room safe or at least in the hotel room the entire time I was there. Common sense goes a long way, but it is still a risk. It's beyond sad that it has to be that way.

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M&P Shield 9MM

I learned two things from this thread.

!- Double check state laws for any state you will be traveling through.

2- I will never visit NJ, not no how, not no way.

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Goose
I'm still standing.

Hummm,

I didn't follow this particular incident. Reading the topic and following the discussion makes me a little worried about travel.

When I followed the discussion right, than is there a Woman that has a ccl in the state that she lives in and traveled for what reason ever to an other state that denial law obeying citizens to carry a gun or keep one in their car.

I read further that the woman followed exactly the procedure that is taught in any given CCL class by instructors. Only criminal minds hide weapons from the LE officers – right?

However what about traveling? For my understanding is traveling with a weapon not depending on the vehicle that is used and traveling is not defined depending on the purpose of travel.

So that means for me that if I like to visit my army buddy in Shreveport Louisiana that I actually travel from Texas to Louisiana and can keep a weapon in my vehicle. So I thought.
The same is for this woman. She traveled from PA to NJ to do what is in no ones business. She traveled from one state to the next - period.
I wonder how Truck Driver doing that. Is traveling in some States in the US per definition based on the Vehicle used and purpose of travel, or does the definition of travel need a liberal permit of travel-cause, travel purpose and travel time?

Well thinking on retirement and planning to see finally the US, I already made plans what to see and where to go.
Me as an old European surely have to see NYC and Baltimore. But I already skipped this plan for the same reason why I skipped to visit the Soviet Union, DDR, N Korea or other States that suppress their population in favor of organized corruption, crime and street criminals.

Corruption harms and kills more people than any given weapon in private hand ever could. Interesting enough for me is that no hormone based hysterical outburst occurs, when a politician is openly shown in the living room TV and I wonder why.

I’ll think no one should go to any State or doing business small or big in a state that refusing, threatening or planning to take or impede the citizens constitution rights.

Opinion off.

The Supreme Court hasn't said so, and it's their opinion that matters.

Were I to choose to break the law, I don't believe that I would tell a police officer about it. The existence of that Bersa .380 in her purse was on a need-to-know basis. She's the only one who needed to know it was in there.

People can be righteously indignant all they want. It doesn't change the fact that she broke the law.

When I visit the East coast, I just leave my firearms at home. I know that hindsight is 20/20, but that's what she should have done.

That is just my opinion, of course. Everyone has one. Especially with these things.

But it does not answer travel.
If you travel the US how would you do that? How do you get rid of a weapon only because you travel 2 hours trough a total police-state and why can a Truck driver keep his weapon in the truck but you don't?

Questions over questions

not counting un state drivers. I've never heard of truck drivers being allowed to keep a firearm in the truck and I'm in the trucking business.

Maybe if the keep the gun locked and the mags/ammo in a different compartment

I hate to think that any of you would be on a jury----especially mine! (except Scooter, S&W and such)---I am so disappointed.

Can't even count on our gun owners.

I don't think we should count on other gun owners to look the other way as a jury member in a firearms-related case.
I'm not going to throw a party if this gal goes to jail, but I'm certainly not going to be surprised or indignant about it.

Jurors aren't usually clued in on punishment during a criminal trial.

This will likely go away through some kind of plea.

Vhere are your papers....

The 2nd amendment is being violated again here, it's as simple as that. It doesn't say where or when you can be armed. These violating "law makers" swore to uphold our constitution...they should all be drawn and quartered.

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I'm Proud To Be An American!

Mmmmmm?

Just curious.....When they do decide against the Second Amendment, how will you feel about their opinion then????

I don't understand why multi-quoting is not working for me. Anyway, those people in the robes say whether it's constitutional or not. They are the only ones who count on such issues in a nation of laws, not men. To say that your opinion should be the law is one thing. To insist on it without going through the judicial process is contrary to everything American and invites anarchy.

I'm sorry if I understood something wrong. A friend, Semi truck owner business based in Texas, drives from Texas up to the Canadian border and is trucking all over the US.
He told me that it would be allowed to keep a gun in his truck cabin for self deference.

1) I understood wrong
2) he is mistaken.

One would have to research FOPA and state laws, and need more facts than as stated. There are too many variables not addressed in your minimal fact pattern, and each case will turn on its own facts and applicable law, and where the alleged criminal act occurred.

Things to consider (not at all full & complete):

CCW permit or not;
reciprocity or not;
Gun stored or not;
Gun loaded or not;
Passing through or stopping for a while;
individual state laws
conflict between state law and federal, etc.
Nationality of your friend may or may not play a role..

Good luck! So, it depends....

Doesn't sound very good to me that your friend might get by with impunity everywhere- not likely.

Putting aside legality, have heard that some store loaded firearm in business attache case with separate and built-in combination locks on either side- easy to lock or unlock, easy to open or close.

In CA the following would be legal whether CCW or not: IF firearm is not loaded and attache case were locked, even though a loaded magazine might be in same container (NOT ATTACHED to firearm, AND no round in chamber).

There are no special laws for truck drivers. He is either lying to you or more likely he is using the excuse of passing through, which is legal. ....in a way. Gun might have to be locked up and or separate from mags and ammo, in certain states. The problem is. ..and I don't know the answer to this one. ...is what's considered "passing through"? Is the final decision considered a pass through?

Probably because you block third party cookies like me.

I think if I were the cop that stopped her, I would have figured that she just didn't know any better. If she knew better, or had some evil intent, then why would she freely disclose that information to me? But I suppose the law is the law and common sense be damned.
Peace,
gordon

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better have that checked

Last I heard, about week or so ago, the prosecutor turned down all requests for some sort of arrangement proposed by the defense counsel to take jail time off the table. So likely headed to trial. The defense is said to be looking for a jury to determine her fate.

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Sure you did

Believe me, you know when you cross from Philly into NJ in this area. And if I stop you, you did something to bring me to you. The "you-stopped-me-for-out-of-state-tags" might fly if it was a PA plate in TX, but not here. Every other car on the road in this area has PA plates. The Bellmawr and AC Xway barracks take 100s of drunk drivers off the road ever year. One of the primary stop reasons: Failure to Maintain Lane.
I have stopped more than a few people carrying guns. Some are nice; some are not. I had a drug seizure where the occupant told me: "I do have a weapon" as I'm getting him out of the car. He had a receipt for it too. Also had a half pound of weed underneath it. Good guy? He must be, he told me about his legal GA carry permit and gun.
I don't know what/who you are when I stop you, but you know who I am because I'm in the blue suit. My safety is paramount. If you make a spontaneous admission that you have a weapon, I go right into self-preservation mode. If I can determine that you are not a bad guy while I'm on the side of the road, and you are just ignorant of the NJ laws, I write you what I stopped you for, make you put your weapon in the trunk, and send you on your way. If I can't, guess what, you're coming back with me in cuffs.
I thank the forum for allowing me to put in my 2 cents.

As a LEO (you, not me), this makes sense. It is your job to enforce laws, not make them. I also commend you for using common sense in your discretion when it comes to how you handle each situation. Not everyone is a criminal and you definitely seem to understand that. At the same time, you are in a situation where people need to make that impression on you in a very short time. So it truly is up to them to do so. Unfortunately, your style and view isn't always shared by all LEOs that seem to forget about the common sense parts. So, thank you for doing things the right way, even if the laws aren't something everyone agrees on.

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M&P Shield 9MM

I agree with the charge but 10 years ? come on, the criminals in Philly get arrested and are released before the ink dries committing crimes far more serious than this.
About twenty years ago my house was searched the trooper asked if I had any weapons in the house I said yes it was a unregistered Colt that I brought with me when I move to NJ from PA luckily I had the sales receipt was registered in PA the only penalty imposed was they confiscated my Python. A NJ trooper some where has a near perfect Nickel plated python in his collection

koz, good post.
Everyone, needs to check on state laws before entering out of state.
I have an NH carry license only which no other New England state recognizes (except VT) and I live on the border of NH and MA.
My pistol stays in my safe when I know I am going out of state.
I understand all of that. I understand she made a mistake.
Goodness gracious. I hope some of you never make a mistake.
Yiogo

You don't have to talk to the police or answer their questions.

New Jersey recently received the honors as the State with the rudest residents.

Let's see rudest residents and an anti -gun State. I am so thankful nearly 2,000 miles separates me from a State I never want to step foot in nor spend one dollar to support.

Russ, a proud Utah resident where I can pack in all public schools in my lovely State including football and basketball games.

Correct, there is no way to accidentally cross over. I suppose if one fell asleep and took a NJ exit, crossed a toll bridge and entered NJ then maybe. Where she was at was a good hour away from Philly.

Well I never drive when I am that sleepy. But then my rules are I do not drive into New Jersey. I have not lost anything in
New Jersey. I don't buy anything made in New Jersey. I don't have any relatives in New Jersey. And I don't support anyone
who is in any political office in New Jersey, and won't.
I sure hope Smith and Wesson never moves to New Jersey,
and I need any parts. I hope that I have no equipment I
have purchased through the years that needs a part, that
I might have to order from New Jersey.

My reasons are: New Jersey does not recognize my Texas Permit. New Jersey outlaws the hollow points that I carry in
my guns.

Lockheed Martin, BASF, Honeywell & Unilever, Campbell soup, Pinnacle food, Johnson and Johnson, Merck, top 3 in states that produce fruits and vegetables. Just saying!

And here she goes... 11 years. That's crazy!

Mother Faces 11 Years in Prison ? LewRockwell.com

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Jorge

That was a pretty interesting read.

I wonder if the D.A. is up for re-election or not, or wishes to pursue higher office and this lady is his sacrificial lamb. D.A.'s love to get publicity, especially in less than gun friendly states.

Maybe the best way to deal with the tyrants in N.J. would be to cancel any travel plans to that state and let them know why. This is a complete misuse of the justice system. This young mom was not there to commit a crime, she was only concerned about her safety . New Jersey has the most restrictive gun laws in the country and has 5 of the most dangerous cities, coincidence ?

Registration of firearms in the state of New Jersey is voluntary. You should have hired a lawyer and not have submitted to a search.

There is a clear split in the Circuit Courts on this issue. With the Peruta decision, the Ninth Circuit has said that justification is not a valid reason for permit denial. As has the Seventh Circuit.

Other Circuits have held the opposite, including the Fourth.

The time would seem ripe for the SCOTUS to decide that issue, but they have declined so far. They will at some point, but there is no way of knowing when that will happen.

As to this particular case, on one hand it is her responsibility to know the laws regarding where and where not her permit is valid. That being said, the police and County prosecutor could use their discretion to file a lesser charge or no charge at all.

Being NJ, that won't happen and the Governor won't intervene either.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

The reason the trooper(s) interacted with the subject was not provided. When I search a house and ask about weapons, it is more times than not a Domestic Violence situation and the guns, voluntarily registered of not, have got to go. Two sides to every story; somewhere in the middle is the "truth".

Unless you are Trump or a fortune 500 company I don't think they'll care.

I was just thinking they could have more on this woman and possibly her intent than has been released. This is pure speculation on my part.

Throwing the defendant under the bus to facilitate one's political aims? Hey, it worked for David Wilentz. And in the same state, too. Imagine that.

I wonder if the same would have happened to some well heeled Wall St banker type. That is, the DA refusing some sort of deal.

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Sure you did

That is true since Loughtenburg's Law went into effect.

Thanks, I read the labels on what I can. I have been boycotting
New Jersey for years. New Jersey is at the top of my boycott
list. As for the lady, I guess this is why 36000 criminal illegals
some with murder convictions had to be released to make room
for cases like hers. I would rather buy products direct from
China, Russia, Japan before I would buy anything made in
New Jersey or Illinois.

Update...

A Republican lawmaker says he has introduced a bill that would give discretion to New Jersey judges dealing with out-of-state gun owners.
Assemblyman Ronald Dancer introduced ``Shaneen's Law'' in response to the case of Shaneen Allen. The Pennsylvania mother faces charges for carrying a gun in New Jersey. She is legally allowed to carry the gun in Pennsylvania.


Read more: Bill Introduced to Grant Discretion in Gun Cases | NBC 10 Philadelphia
Follow us: @nbcphiladelphia on Twitter | nbcphiladelphia on Facebook

I agree that what she did wasn't very smart, but, I also believe that she did not break the law. She broke a statue that is in fact unlawful. The Constitution and Bill of Rights and the supreme law of the land. The Right to Keep and BEAR arm shall not be infringed. What part of BEAR and Infringed does anyone with an IQ over 60 not comprehend.

Ya, its that simple and states that don't want to follow the rules of the Constitutions should be tossed out of the union. I avoid them at all costs as they are not part of the United States anymore than Mexico and most have a murder rate that approaches most of Mexico.

Rant complete LOL

Sort of swaying from the topic, but I don't run across very many folks from New Jersey, but I did do a traffic stop on a New Jersey resident just this week. I clocked him doing 81 mph on a two lane US Highway posted at 55 mph.

Maybe I don't read the nuances of the cultural differences between myself and New Jersey residents well, but as I made contact with him on the traffic stop he seemed to exhibit an attitude with me right off the bat. I distinctly heard him use the term "hillbilly cop" in his initial salutation as I approached his car, I'm pretty sure it was not meant to be complimentary. Since I'm always striving to be an ambassador of my community when I deal with out-of-staters, I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I ended up writing him a hard copy for speeding 25 mph over the limit. When I gave him the ticket to sign he blurted out, "don't you guys give any warnings to visiting out of staters?"

"Yes sir, we do. If you come back through here speeding that fast again I will write you a citation for reckless driving and have your vehicle impounded. Please slow down and have a good day, sir."

To my back I heard him say, "Screw you!"

I'm sure he thought he had the last word. As he drove off heading north, I switched my radio over to the channel for the neighboring county's dispatcher. Giving them the make and model of the car and advising them it had New Jersey plates, I advised them that they may want to be on the lookout for that vehicle as it could possibly be entering their county shortly at a high rate of speed. Sure enough, in about 15 minutes I heard radio traffic of that vehicle being pulled over again and was given another citation for 25 mph over the limit.

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- Change it back -