I don't disagree but the OP is talking about a striker fired pistol.

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Retired Career Security Guard

What kind of gun are you carrying?

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Don't kiss smiling dogs!

Training or not, most folks just aren't very fast (or safe) at doing that one-handed.

We have kind of wandered around a bit here...

To answer the OP's question, it is not at all unusual to be a little uncomfortable with a round in the chamber when you first start to carry. In 1997, when I started carrying a Glock 23, I was certain of two things. First, everyone could tell I was carrying it, and second that it might go off. Neither was true, and both concerns calmed down within a few weeks.

I do have two safety suggestions. First, get a quality holster with stiff construction that will protect the trigger. Second, do not get complacent in your gun handling. Keep your finger off the trigger and be deliberate in your actions.

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Proud anachronism

I found the reference to the article about AD and the Deputy in the fast food place I mentioned in an earlier post.

Deputy's young son accidentally discharges gun inside Wendy's | www.ajc.com

Dave

This thread made me remember an uncle who was an Infantry Officer during WWII. I once asked him if he carried a round chambered in his .45. His answer was that he carried it with a round in the chamber, cocked and safety off, and cut the flap off his holster, because if the enemy was close enough for him to hit with a pistol, he didn't have time to do anything but pull and shoot!
My assigned weapon for the whole 20 years I was in the Army was a M1911, and it is not practical for me to carry one locked as I am left handed. Other than in a combat zone, I carried without a round in the chamber, but in VN, I always had a round in the chamber and the hammer down, but I have large hands and could cock the gun with one hand while drawing. For civilian concealed carry, I opt for a revolver.

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Tom
1560

I spent years carrying a variety of firearms while in uniform on the streets. Mostly a 1911 or a medium frame 38. No such thing as "not a round in the chamber" in those situations. It is a non-issue to worry about.


My EDC today is a J-frame hammerless.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

The first handgun I ever owned was a S&W model 915, it was designed to be carried decocked, in DA mode but I didn’t know that.

Almost everyone I knew at the time was an M1911 aficionado and they all carried in condition one, generally in a level one retention holster with the strap seated between the hammer and the firing pin.

Not knowing any better I carried my 915 like that for 6 months until someone squared me away.

Now in case I haven’t made myself explicitly clear here I walked around with a cocked and unlocked pistol in my holster for 6 months.

Now as UNSAFE as I now KNOW this is, I have to admit the pistol never “went off” during that time.

I have to ask my self how much less likely a modern firearm, in good working order, carried properly would be to just “go off”

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Retired Career Security Guard

I can't bring myself to carry a gun without a safety either. It may be my lack of knowledge of striker guns but doesn't matter, I still can't do it. Therefore, I have always carried a 3rd gen S&W with chambered round and safety on. Wife got to shooting, and carry within the last couple of years and she loves the 1911 platform. Due to this and size and comfort, we both carry a sig 938 cocked and locked, condition one. Know the gun and platform well enough that am completey comfortable carrying this way. One swipe with thumb on draw and she is hot to go.

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God, country, family.

Always one in the pipe. ALWAYS!

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

Quote:

If you need to use a gun in self defense, you're already behind the curve because:
A) You didn't see the situation coming in time to avoid it.
B) You weren't able to find and take an escape from the situation once it started.
C) You weren't able to control or de-escalate the situation before a gun became your only option.
D) You need a gun RIGHT NOW.
E) Your gun is still in its holster (because you don't draw before you need it, right?)


F) Because you have the living **** scared out of you.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

This is as much of a dead horse as the .22lr for self defense debate.

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M&P 15-22
1911

Before the Israelis retired their Browning Hi-Powers, they carried hammer down on empty chamber. I was privileged to share some range time with members of the Shinbet and these guys could get rounds down range virtually as fast as I could using a Glock 19.

Basically, its a training issue. Carry how you are most comfortable but always train from that mode of carry.

What do the Israelis carry now? In what condition?

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Stay protected my friends.

Let's clear up this Israeli thing. 1)we are not in Israel
2) we are not trained the way they are.
3) depending on their MOS a lot of them forgo the empty chamber idea.

My cousin was in the IDF and now does private security. Most carry a loaded gun. He said if you want to carry an empty chamber you might as well just walk over and surrender yourself. A few years ago he got stabbed in the stomach before he was able to draw let alone chamber. The guy didn't care that there were a dozen other soldiers there he went ahead and stabbed anyway, while waiting in line to be searched. If you ride a desk you probably carry on an empty chamber. If you're on duty and on patrol locked and loaded

...or busy fending off the attacker as you draw?

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Stay protected my friends.

Please invest in some quality training and education about firearms. Learn every little detail about your EDC including the built in safety features as well as good trigger discipline. I'm afraid that you have purchased a firearm, shot a couple boxes of ammo, read a few internet articles, and started carrying. You are not ready obviously by the original post. Carrying a weapon is a very big responsibility and should be approached with your unwaivering commitment to obtain and secure continuing education. The training NEVER stops!!

NC

This again, so here's this again. Go on You Tube, enter the 21 foot rule, watch the videos and ask yourself, even if you're an expert in the Israeli technique, will you have the time to identify the threat, draw, rack the slide, aim and engage?

If you pick up a revolver, don't trade in your 40c. You're new to all this, so you're preferences will develope over time. Chances are you may find yourself coming back to a compact semi after you get more hands on time.

I carry anything from an LCP to a G27 or a 642 inside the waistband, appendix. The semis are carried with a round in the chamber. An appropriate holster and proper handling is needed no matter what gun you carry.

This is what I like about my SD40-VE. Its trigger pull is more like a revolver. Same 8# trigger pull from first round through the 14th. But for peace of mind, even though there are no external safeties, several things have to happen. First the hinged trigger safety has to be manually pulled back for the trigger to be pressed to the rear. Second, the linkage must pull the sear down to release the striker. And third, the linkage also must press up on the striker block to allow the striker to reach the chambered round. All three of these must be accomplished for the pistol to fire. That being said, I would feel equally comfortable and protected carrying a .38 snub. If a revolver makes you feel more at ease, then by all means get a revolver. The secret is regular practice of whatever you carry. Being completely familiar and proficient with your firearm is the best safety you could have. Good luck with whatever you end up with. I, myself, have been kind of jonesing for a 442/642. I love my Wife's older Taurus 85, but she won't give it up!!

L8R,
Matt

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SD40-VE owner and proud of it!

I am mostly a DA revolver guy. I own the remington rand I showed but seldom carried it. In the past also owned many other old autos. If someone hasnt trained much on a auto and doesnt want to, I recommend a DA revolver. We all live at different levels of risk. Some might be more apt to be hit by a meteorite than having to fight for their life. If they already own the auto, feel more comfortable with having to jack a round in and dont want to or cant get much training, go ahead with what makes you feel safe. Odds are still on your side unless you live like Jack Reacher.

If you're sure you never going to use it, then why carry it all? That's the safest option.

Unless the revolver is the type where the firing pin doesn't contact the primer directly, there is still a chance of the gun going off if dropped.

Negligent Discharge of firearms are growing at a alarming rate do to untrained carrying. Until you have proper training you must decide if the split second between having enough time and no time at all is worth an accident. If while carrying your firearm it is ever pointed at yourself or someone else you are already breaking one of the first rules of gun safety.

But ya know... Even though it was uncocked, you had it in a level one retention holster with the strap seated between the hammer and the firing pin.

On another note...
What I usually tell people who are new to carry and who are unsure, is this:
Carry an UNloaded (cocked) pistol for a day or two. Don't be easy on it... Be overly active, bending, twisting, knock into stuff, etc. At the end of the day, take the empty pistol out (you know it's empty... right?), point in a safe direction and check the trigger. Is it still cocked? or did something set it off during the day? Something tells me it will still be cocked. If not, there's a problem with either the holster, or the pistol and it needs to be checked.

I had the misfortune of working with a jackwagon that didn't carry one in the pipe when I was a cop in Virginia. He was the volunteer desk officer, which says a lot, but happened to stop out with me at an alarm call with an open door on his way back to the station after code 7. He gets out of the car, draws, and racks one in the chamber.

I asked him what in the ever lovin H E double hockey stick he was doing not carrying a round in the chamber. He said he didn't trust Glocks with a round in the chamber.

As long as it's a S&W revolver

As long as your finger is not on the trigger, IT WILL NOT GO OFF. I have also trained for double-digit years, but with a semi-auto rather than a revolver like one of the other posters. It all comes down to what makes YOU comfortable. If you're not comfortable with carrying a semi with one in the pipe, carry something else until you are. Just keep practicing and soon you'll be just as comfortable with a full loaded (one in the chamber) semi as you are with a wheelgun. Don't rush it, you'll get there when you get there.

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Don

I think you need to go back and read what I actually wrote.

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Retired Career Security Guard

If you feel uncomfortable with one in the chamber, then it doesn't matter what the rest of us are comfortable with, or what we tell you. But my guess is that you are plain uncomfortable with carrying right now. You might want to carry your gun without a magazine in it, so you can feel totally safe. If you have your draw your gun and there is no time to insert the mag, rack the slide and aim, then you can use your gun as a short club.

BTW, I thought you were already dead. You were a great President of the NRA.

If you would be comfortable with a DA/SA revolver, you might also be comfortable with a S&W 3913

[IMG]Guns 048edcrf2 by Jerry Jaynes, on Flickr[/IMG]

Or how about a Double Action 640

[IMG]Guns 039ed2cf by Jerry Jaynes, on Flickr[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Rastoff;138113113]This question comes up from time to time. It's a perfectly understandable response considering the fact that a gun was designed to inflict serious injury.

No, it doesn't "freak me out" and hasn't for at least 7 years now. I believe my calm with this is due largely to my intimate understanding of how the gun works.

For the M&P, as long as the striker block is functioning, the gun won't fire unless the trigger is held back. It can't be dropped, hammered or kicked to make it go off. Still, this is my own understanding and others may still be concerned.

So, I have a suggestion to help. Carry your M&P with an empty chamber. At the end of every day, check to see that the sear is still cocked. After some time, this will give you confidence that the sear will not release inadvertently. After a week or so you'll gain enough confidence to carry with one in the chamber. It will still feel weird, but that will fade over time.[/QUOTE

Ding ding ding, Ive picked a winner. Thanks to all who have responded. Ive read every response concisely. Yall make loads of sense. Besides A quick tutorial in basic training (when I prolly could barely keep my eyes open due to being smoked all day and fire watch) my training is very little. As you can imagine from original post im extremely careful with my handgun. My finger is never on the trigger loaded or not unless im about to fire. Its holstered in a cross breed supertuck. Ive fired about 6 to 700 hundred rounds through it. My fear is not me accidentally discharging it, rather it doing itself for whatever reason. Im beginning to expect its my paranoia. Thanks again for all the responses. You guys and gals are the salt of the earth and I appreciate your comments. I plan to take some courses on cc that are offered at one of my lgs. Yall the best, be safe and thanks again.

I took CH to mean that he recognizes the likelihood of ever having to draw in self defense is -- statistically speaking -- quite low, not that he expects he wouldn't draw even if he needed to.

And I believe virtually every modern revolver (mid-20th century on up) prevents the firing pin from touching the primer except when fired; certainly that's the case for S&Ws.

window shopping at revolvers as we speak. Hoping a performance center 686 is legal in my state

I'm not one to tell people what to do. But you're going about things the wrong way.

Do you REALLY think that Smith & Wesson or any other gun manufacturer would produce and then sell a gun that was unsafe?

You're wasting your money unnecessarily.

Up to you whether or not you take our advice. But you asked. Most of us have been carrying a long time. We went through what you are long ago.

Doesn't make us any smarter or better than you. Just more experienced. Which would you rather listen to?

As far as comfort level. BALONEY. Carrying a gun is NEVER comfortable.

It's a sacrifice we make when we choose to protect ourselves.

Up to you my man. But most if not all of us has gone through the same thing. We bought and sold many guns to find the PERFECT gun. It doesn't exist!! We learned the hard way. You don't need to.

Stick with what you have and LEARN! A revolver is no safer if you don't take the time to teach yourself proper gun safety at all times.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Thanks point taken... But I do also need an excuse to start my personal arsenal . I have a name to uphold (C.H.) for crying out loud! My baby will always be my first which is my 40c

The only time I get a bit concerned with one in the chamber of my XDm, is when I first holster the firearm. Gotta be really careful not to get the shirt tail in the trigger guard. That's where the grip safety shines.

CH, I think a revolver will do you good. It makes your concern a moot point. Whether or not your concern is the same as ours or not does not matter.

I cut my teeth on CCW carrying a snubby, went to Glocks for a while, and am back to the snubby. I still have the Glocks but I have more faith in the reliability and safety of my snubby.

Believe me. Just trying to help.

It's only a matter of time before you're confident in whatever you choose to carry.

By all means, more guns is better.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I think the OP has seen enough opinions, so I'll just offer this observation: Have you seen all the movies and TV shows in which the guy is pointing a 1911 at another guy and THEN (ostensibly for dramatic effect) cocks the hammer?

If someone were pointing a hammer-down 1911 at me, I would take it from them and beat them unconscious with it.

To my knowledge, the Israelis now carry compensated Glock 19s. However, I do not know if they carry with a chambered round.

CH: I encourage your picking up a revolver purely on the grounds that the more handgun types you can spend serious time with, the broader your experience and better you'll be able to determine what compromises (they all have compromises) work best for you.

I'd take time to consider your personal defense needs, practical and otherwise, before buying the revolver, though, and look closely at the many revolver options there are out there in terms of size, caliber, etc. Plenty of good reading about this on the forum...

Does this answer your question?

Jimenez Arms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Retired Career Security Guard

This is a good recommendation. Carry this way until it feels safe to carry with one in the chamber. What you are going through is normal.

A lightweight j frame is a must in anybody's carry rotation imho. I prefer a black centennial like a 442, you should be able to get one for around $400. I can't imagine not having one around for a backup, or to pocket carry.

Honestly, the reason I carry with one in the chamber is I have a vision of a 200lb rotweiler clamped on my left arm, and having to beat him with a gun that won't go bang.

I think as long as you stick with a big name manufacturer you can be sure the gun is safe and reliable. Smith, colt, ruger etc. I never heard of any of them producing junk in my lifetime.

The only time I am concerned about one in the pipe is when I ride my motorcycle. I carry an LCP in my riding jacket pocket with or with out a pocket holster. In a wreck it could possibly go off as in the trigger getting pulled.

The rest of my time I carry with a live round ready to go.

MOST of the time I carry a 637 in an ankle holster.

When I started out carrying, it was a Sterling 22. Striker fired, I don't think it had a safety. I was careful at first but once I got used to having one in the pipe, I traded the gun for a safer one because I did not want to carry it with an empty chamber.

I bought a Beretta model 21a 22lr with tip up barrel. Double action or single with a safty. I now carry that gun with one in the pipe, hammer down, safety off.

Again, I usually carry a J frame smith. (light weight 5 shot 2" 38.)

David

That one second that it takes you to cycle the action on your pistol to chamber a round could cost you your life. And, according to your own logic, you really have the same problem with a revolver. The firing pin is being prevented from contacting the primer on a live round by some mechanism in the gun.

This is about training. The rangemaster at your local range isn't worried about the guns in your range bag. He's worried about the guns you're handling. That's because he knows that modern firearms don't just "go off". This is not about how much you trust your gun, it's about how much you trust yourself. Until you get somewhere with that you may want to reconsider whether or not you want to carry at all.

I was going to reply that you can be sure you're not the only one but it's a bad practice unless you train and train and train. The Israelis carry their guns without a round in the chamber but they train to rack-shoot so fast it doesn't matter all that much. But that's what you have to do - train. Otherwise, you'll fail to fire when the elephant arrives.

I agree that revolvers solve the problem but typical double action pistols are not that much different. It's later era guns, like Glocks and their progeny, that have "tricky triggers", that I worry about. But I'm old......YMMV..... and I didn't like Glocks when they first arrived, anyway.

***GRJ***

The only time I have had malfunctions was when I carried a snake load in one chamber. When jarred by recoil or another way I have twice now had them jar forward and tie the revolver up. Once by hitting a car window with the gun the chamber with the shot load bounced forward halfway into the throat and chamber totaly tieing the gun up and just lately I had to put a fawn out of its misery that ran in front of my rzr. I had a shot load in a different chamber bounce forward tieing the gun up for a followup shot.
45 years ago I had a terrible accident on my harley at close to a 100 mph. I left the road on a mountainside curve and was thrown through tree branches, brush etc and rolled down the embankment quite a ways.
I had a model 60 with a snubbed hammer in my quilted vest and it was about the only thing on me or the motor that wasn't tore up. I carried that model 60 for 33 years and finaly it was stolen along with my truck. I replaced it with a old model 40 and a 3" model 36 but I sure miss my model 60. Bought it I think in 1969. Serial # R4266. I packed that gun more than all other pocket guns put together. Want it back!

Not one-handed they couldn't, I reckon.

I had a hard time with a 5" 1911 when i first started carrying it,
condition 1, cocked and locked…….I finally carried it around the house for days…….condition 1, no round in the chamber…..I pulled the trigger……bent, twisted, layed on the couch, used the recliner…….tried every thing I could to get that hammer to drop….I couldn't get it done……I am now very comfortable carrying that gun ……..but a striker fired gun with out a thumb safety….haven't tried that one yet.

Semper Fi!

There's a round "chambered" in my LCR at all times. Being a revolver guy I guess I just never thought about this.

Iffn ya don't want it to go bang, don't pull the trigger.