Major Epiphany At The Range Yesterday. UPDATE Bought The M&P

Muss Muggins · #51 10-09-2014, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke

As I mentioned in the OP there was actually a point during the course where my brain lock over whether or not to decock actually stopped me in my tracks.

In fact I've been mulling this change over for a while and the thing that got me started thinking about it was something that happened one of the first times I cleaned and reassembled my M&P Shield.

I reassembled the gun , inserted a full magazine,, dropped the slide and froze because my muscle memory was telling me to drop a decocker that my eyes kept telling me wasn't there.

I started thinking about switching my 6906 for an M&P 9mm then and there

Now I'm confused. Your muscle memory for the gun you've carried for years has developed dementia, and you're switching to a gun that matches your virtual muscle memory?

BE Mike · #52 10-10-2014, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbm6893

How many of us actually have to think before pressing the brake to shift a car into gear? None

For whatever reason, your picked up some bad habits with your 6906. Buying a new gun will not fix your problem. And trading a 6906 for a plastic M&P is insanity in my opinion. I have a few plastic guns. They're ok. Do the job. But a 3rd gen they are not. If you reload you can reload 1000 rounds of. 9MM for about 100 bucks. If you dont you can buy 1000 rounds of 9 for around 200 or so. I'd spend half the price of a new M&P on ammo and range time and keep the 6906

I would say that the transition from a traditional double action pistol with decocker and safety to an M&P point and shoot, would be as easy as going from a standard transmission to an automatic.

Smoke · #53 10-10-2014, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

And apparently you've also spent a year on this range building a muscle memory of draw, disengage safety

No, one of the reasons I chose to carry a DA/SA gun is because I can decock it and safely carry it with the safety off. No difference between that and a gun that has no manual safety

Smoke · #54 10-10-2014, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muss Muggins

Now I'm confused. Your muscle memory for the gun you've carried for years has developed dementia, and you're switching to a gun that matches your virtual muscle memory?

Yes, you are confused.

Smoke · #55 10-10-2014, 01:59 PM

On the one hand I don’t have to justify my decision to anyone but on the other I did put it out there for discussion.

To put this in the simplest terms possible I have always looked for ways to simplify the process of using a firearm for self defense. Every step I have to take in that situation is one more thing that can go wrong so I want to eliminate every unnecessary step I can.

I have pull, point, shoot and get your finger off the trigger down and that’s all I need to run an M&P.

BE Mike · #56 10-10-2014, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke

On the one hand I don’t have to justify my decision to anyone but on the other I did put it out there for discussion.

To put this in the simplest terms possible I have always looked for ways to simplify the process of using a firearm for self defense. Every step I have to take in that situation is one more thing that can go wrong so I want to eliminate every unnecessary step I can.

I have pull, point, shoot and get your finger off the trigger down and that’s all I need to run an M&P.

Fagitabouit! You done good. It's your butt on the line, not someone who is nostalgic about older designs. I never liked the traditional double-action transition from double action to single action. DAO is the way to go.

Smoke · #57 10-12-2014, 06:13 PM

Stopped by Family Firearms Sales of Colorado Springs today after church to check on the availability of the M&P 9mm and magazines.

Told the counterman I was planning to sell a RIA 1911 to fund the purchase and we got to talking and things worked out such that I got the M&P, 4 spare magazines, a holster and two boxes of Hornady Critical defense ammunition and 50 bucks and traded off a couple of guns that I didn't want anyway.

Can't give a range report yet but when I can I will

Wyatt p. Tato · #58 10-12-2014, 07:17 PM

You did good. I carried a revolver rather than learn all the safety, de- cocker, stuff. Now that I am comfortable with the striker fireed auto loaders that is what I carry. Point and click.

I think you will be happy with the M&P.

stantheman86 · #59 10-12-2014, 08:18 PM

^^^^

Why I only use revolvers and DAO autos.....

When Murphy is on the loose I don't need any more levers or buttons in my way. My muscle memory is so ingrained with just pulling a long heavy trigger I don't want to relearn to mess with a safety.

Jhawk412 · #60 10-14-2014, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stantheman86

^^^^

Why I only use revolvers and DAO autos.....

When Murphy is on the loose I don't need any more levers or buttons in my way. My muscle memory is so ingrained with just pulling a long heavy trigger I don't want to relearn to mess with a safety.

I personally think it's critical to maintain identical platforms with every gun you carry. This post has revolvers and DAO semis. Both have the same trigger pull. I would not routinely carry Glocks and revolvers.

The reason I say this is for a long time I carried a Sig P229 DAO at work (40cal.) I'd practice extensively with it and get pretty good. Then off-duty I'd carry a Glock 27. Switching back and forth was problematic in fast shooting. I'd either short-stroke the Sig's longer trigger or slap the heck out of the Glock's shorter trigger, depending which gun I'd been training with most recently.

KISS requires the same platform, same trigger in my opinion. YMMV.

Smoke · #61 10-14-2014, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawk412

I personally think it's critical to maintain identical platforms with every gun you carry. This post has revolvers and DAO semis. Both have the same trigger pull. I would not routinely carry Glocks and revolvers.

The reason I say this is for a long time I carried a Sig P229 DAO at work (40cal.) I'd practice extensively with it and get pretty good. Then off-duty I'd carry a Glock 27. Switching back and forth was problematic in fast shooting. I'd either short-stroke the Sig's longer trigger or slap the heck out of the Glock's shorter trigger, depending which gun I'd been training with most recently.

KISS requires the same platform, same trigger in my opinion. YMMV.

Please see this thread

http://smith-wessonforum.com/conceal...arry-guns.html

Going forward I will be limiting myself strictly to the M&P 9 and on those occasions when I can’t conceal an M&P 9 an M&P Shield 9mm.

Waywatcher · #62 10-14-2014, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jhawk412

I personally think it's critical to maintain identical platforms with every gun you carry. This post has revolvers and DAO semis. Both have the same trigger pull. I would not routinely carry Glocks and revolvers.

The reason I say this is for a long time I carried a Sig P229 DAO at work (40cal.) I'd practice extensively with it and get pretty good. Then off-duty I'd carry a Glock 27. Switching back and forth was problematic in fast shooting. I'd either short-stroke the Sig's longer trigger or slap the heck out of the Glock's shorter trigger, depending which gun I'd been training with most recently.

KISS requires the same platform, same trigger in my opinion. YMMV.

In my experience, Glocks equipped with the NY-1 trigger spring are interchangeable with a DAO revolver--very similar trigger pulls. The NY-1 was created for precisely this reason--for police that were used to DA revolvers. The NY-1 spring makes a Glock have consistent resistance right from the start of the trigger pull, and the resistance is usually described as 8lbs.

Shorty 45 MK2 · #63 10-14-2014, 05:26 PM

I know you already have bought the M&P, which is good because it's your gun and your life.

But...I'd highly recommend shooting an IDPA or similar match (something that gets you moving while manipulating and shooting your carry gun.) since it seems most if not just about all of your shooting/training has been on a square range.

It has helped me a lot shooting from non traditional positions in the cold, rain and heat. I'm not in them to get the fastest time and beat everyone else nor do I use game guns, just my carry guns.

This is just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

Smoke · #64 10-15-2014, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty 45 MK2

I know you already have bought the M&P, which is good because it's your gun and your life.

But...I'd highly recommend shooting an IDPA or similar match (something that gets you moving while manipulating and shooting your carry gun.) since it seems most if not just about all of your shooting/training has been on a square range.

It has helped me a lot shooting from non traditional positions in the cold, rain and heat. I'm not in them to get the fastest time and beat everyone else nor do I use game guns, just my carry guns.

This is just my opinion and worth what you paid for it.

Finances would be the limiting factor but I do agree with your concept

Shorty 45 MK2 · #65 10-15-2014, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke

Finances would be the limiting factor but I do agree with your concept

The local matches near me are $15 and require about 100 rounds of ammo for six different course of fire (Stages) and three magazines.

Springfeildkid585 · #66 10-15-2014, 03:58 PM

Smoke, I believe there is a far bigger issue at hand here than your weapon. You've been training for a threat to end after two bullets. While cutting out the safety reduces your recovery time, it doesn't change the fact that you will hesitate after two rounds. You're treating the symptom, but not the cause. You can still get yourself killed if you don't fix the training issue. I would also like to know why somebody would train to only ever fire two shots.

Smoke · #67 10-15-2014, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springfeildkid585

Smoke, I believe there is a far bigger issue at hand here than your weapon. You've been training for a threat to end after two bullets. While cutting out the safety reduces your recovery time, it doesn't change the fact that you will hesitate after two rounds. You're treating the symptom, but not the cause. You can still get yourself killed if you don't fix the training issue. I would also like to know why somebody would train to only ever fire two shots.

You need to go back and read the thread this issue has been covered.

The only time I stopped firing after two shot on this course was on the part of it where they wanted two hits on the target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke

Oddly enough I never once tried to reholster the gun I just kept trying to decock the weapon.

I also have issues manipulating the decocker it just feel awkward in my hand

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAM-BAM

Don't take this the wrong way......... but why????????

Train to draw ,fire 2 decock and reholster......... except in the opening credits of "Gunsmoke" can't see that as a reasonable scenario........

Draw, fire for effect, move; assess the situation ....... from cover if possible ...... repeat steps 2,3,4 as necessary.

My response to BAM-BAM's post above ^^^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke

Because we were training for the qualification test.

I said it above but I never once tried to reholster until I was done with the course. I also never stopped after two shots.

I engaged the targets until they either went down or I met the standard, a couple of the steel targets weren't going to go down so we were instructed to engage until till we got two solid hits ( Bong, Bong). but every time I did stop shooting I kept trying to decock that gun, at one point I stopped cold in the middle of the course while my brain locked over it.

I may never ever be in a real gunfight but if I ever am and I do what I did yesterday God Himself will likely have to intervene to keep me alive.

If I can take that variable out of the equation by getting a different tool for the job then I'm going to do it

Smoke · #68 10-15-2014, 05:14 PM

For the last year the trainer's have had us shooting at stationary paper targets and they are trying to add some realism to the training.

On this particular course when they gave me the go command I turned around and my first two targets were steel pie plates on stands, the idea was I shoot them until they fall down. Then I moved over to my cover because they’re trying to teach us to use cover if possible instead of standing in the middle of a hallway blazing away at the guy like Jeanne Asaam did.

Once I got to my cover I had to engage a group of 3 targets, two steel targets and a paper target behind them. The Idea was to hit the steel targets without hitting the “innocent bystanders” behind them (real possibility in a crowded building like a church.)

My next cover was a door way, the wanted me to shoot around it at two more steel targets and then the poster target had a gun in its hand and two “hostages” but you had to move to be able to see the gun and hit the “shooter” without hitting the hostages.

The last station was a silhouette target with a balloon in the back of its head connected to a string holding the target up. The target was moving in the wind and the idea was to shoot until you hit the balloon and the target fell and “died”