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  #51  
Old 12-03-2014, 11:31 PM
breakerofwind breakerofwind is offline
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Can't help ya with this one...I'm outta there...it's against my religion...my mama raised a Devout Coward...
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  #52  
Old 12-03-2014, 11:51 PM
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If possible...

20140130_111347_LLS by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr



Otherwise...

20140728_154830 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr
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  #53  
Old 12-03-2014, 11:52 PM
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Not at arms length against two or more attackers.
I guess that's why it's often chosen as an entry team weapon. Those trained to use a shotgun in close quarters and shotgun retention techniques will argue the point with you. Me, for one. I'll take the tactical advantage of a shotgun any day.
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  #54  
Old 12-03-2014, 11:58 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Nothing much wrong with a 1911 in .45 ACP. A Glock 19 or S&W M&P 9 Full size, provided I have premium ammo available, is also a good choice. My ammo of choice in 9mm is Winchester RA9B or RA9TA, or equivalent from either Federal or Speer, in its Gold Dot line.

Someone mentioned consideration for whether the need is a surprise or not.

Folks, if I know about it ahead of time, then I am going to simply avoid the situation entirely. If I know it is coming, and cannot avoid the situation entirely, then an M4 or even an M1A with plenty of spare magazines would be primary.

Recall the woman who noticed that a Texas Ranger at the party she was attending was wearing his pistol. She asked the Ranger if he was "expecting trouble." The Ranger responded, "No, ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle."


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  #55  
Old 12-04-2014, 12:30 AM
scott1970 scott1970 is offline
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I don't read much about defensive tactics, shootouts, CCW stuff, and such, but from the list provided I did pretty well with a semi auto .40 cal for ten years at work (HK USP .40 cal). The .40 cal ain't a show horse in the world of personal protection, but I've watched it kill a man very efficiently.
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  #56  
Old 12-04-2014, 10:21 AM
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I've seen the capability of a 12ga loaded with 00 buck first hand. It's a devastating weapon. It's hard to do much better inside 25 yards or so.

However, with what I have real world access to, it's the AR-15 that I pick up every time. I do so because it's my personal rifle built to needs and not a generic, neglected and unwieldy* shotgun that stays locked in the trunk that I've never fired before.

Our 870's have Speedfeed stocks that make the LOP too long and the gun cumbersome with body armor and other equipment on.


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  #57  
Old 12-04-2014, 12:49 PM
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I guess that's why it's often chosen as an entry team weapon. Those trained to use a shotgun in close quarters and shotgun retention techniques will argue the point with you. Me, for one. I'll take the tactical advantage of a shotgun any day.
The key word there is TEAM. If I have a "team" with me, then that changes my answer too!
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  #58  
Old 12-04-2014, 01:59 PM
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12 gauge. It doubles as a baseball bat when empty
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  #59  
Old 12-04-2014, 09:30 PM
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Up close and personal? This...

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  #60  
Old 12-04-2014, 11:06 PM
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Default WHAT MAKES ME FEEL SAFE

A beneli super black eagle with a pistol grip stock/ extended mag/ #6 3 1/2" 12 ga Dixie tri-balls. 3- 60 caliber 325 gr hard cast balls @ 1100 fps. The Sig 220 in 45 acp makes me warm & fuzzy too.
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  #61  
Old 12-05-2014, 12:02 AM
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Like comments above it depends on circumstances. I've only been in one situation where a gun was used and that was a double shotgun in 12 gauge. It took all the fight out of three thugs with a tire iron and hunk of chain without a shot being fired.
So my first pick is the pump shotgun in 12 gauge I'm most familiar with. I've done a lot of bird hunting so a shotgun feels right in my hands. It's what I keep under the bed at night.
Isn't it amazing how brave they are, when THEY have the upper hand?
When the tables turn they turn into babies.
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  #62  
Old 12-05-2014, 08:38 AM
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Up close and personal? This...

Hehehe...I had the same thought Rastoff, but since he specifically asked about guns I didn't go there.
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  #63  
Old 12-05-2014, 07:18 PM
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Easy knees, elbows, throat shots and the old 7 slash with my knife...but my choice for clearing my house is my Mossberg 12g with 00 buckshot. I cant use my acr for fear of hitting my kids through the wall ....plus I have seen the damage a 00 buck does to human flesh. ill take it!!
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  #64  
Old 12-05-2014, 07:19 PM
lockjawcrazy lockjawcrazy is offline
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Up close and personal? This...

Love it that's why I said elbows, knees etc... that's up close and personnel!! LOL...congrats by the way I know from my experience that is years of training!!
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  #65  
Old 12-05-2014, 07:22 PM
lockjawcrazy lockjawcrazy is offline
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Isn't it amazing how brave they are, when THEY have the upper hand?
When the tables turn they turn into babies.
Yes they do the car jacker who tried me had a gun and a knife but no training so it was worthless. I beat the living **** out of him!! All you need is to draw their line of sight to get the upper hand!
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  #66  
Old 12-05-2014, 08:24 PM
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Hehehe...I had the same thought Rastoff, but since he specifically asked about guns I didn't go there.
Yes, I know he was asking about guns, but I was also making a statement. If I'm within arms reach, the gun is a secondary tool. I won't have time to get it out and use it effectively. I'll also run the risk of having it taken away from me. So, like lockjawcrazy, it's all elbows, knees and forehead from me within arms reach. My goal is to specifically create space. Once the space is created, then I'll go for the gun if it's still necessary.

Of course the shotgun with 00 Buck is the preferred tool to dispatch the assailant directly. However, they are difficult to carry so, my 1911 is the preferred tool on a normal day.

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Originally Posted by lockjawcrazy View Post
Love it that's why I said elbows, knees etc... that's up close and personnel!! LOL...congrats by the way I know from my experience that is years of training!!
Thanks, it does take some time. I'm way out of practice since I broke my leg and haven't been able to work out. I even missed my opportunity to test for 3rd on time.

Still, some take more time than others. I'm sure there are those with only a couple years of experience that can whoop me good. It's my preferred stance that I'm sometimes a teacher and always a student. No guarantees. Size always matters and there's always someone better out there. The best fight is no fight. I should have responded with this instead:

Because this is way more important than any training or tool. (I am the weapon, the gun is just a tool.)
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  #67  
Old 12-06-2014, 02:59 PM
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Love it that's why I said elbows, knees etc... that's up close and personnel!! LOL...congrats by the way I know from my experience that is years of training!!
I give up. What is that thing?

Never mind. I found out.

Up close and personal?
How 'bout a Snuggie?
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  #68  
Old 12-06-2014, 03:06 PM
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Up close and personal?

I guess my .223. It allows me to "reach out and touch someone."
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  #69  
Old 12-06-2014, 06:57 PM
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Up close and personal? Bad breath distance? In contact? After emptying your SD handgun into the bad guy there's nothing better than a razor sharp, double edged dagger. Just keep slashing and plunging it into the body, legs, groin, and the neck. Open him up. The bad guy will get the message.

Sue his family to get the carpet cleaned.
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  #70  
Old 12-06-2014, 07:14 PM
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The key word there is TEAM. If I have a "team" with me, then that changes my answer too!
That's right. I'm a Team of One You totally sidestepped the proven effectiveness of the combat shotgun in close quarters. In a recent thread you posted promoting a new .380 Browning modeled after the 1911, you said the mere presentation of a handgun often deters BGs. Using your logic, I'd surmise that presenting and racking the slide of a defensive design pump shotgun would create an even greater deterrent. I suggest you take a tactical combat shotgun course. It might change your opinion of the cqc application of the 12 ga.
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  #71  
Old 12-07-2014, 12:45 AM
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John, You could ruin a good shirt doing that sort of thing !
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  #72  
Old 12-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Waywatcher View Post
In order:

For home defense;

20 gauge Remington 870 with 18" barrel, loaded with #3 buckshot (cruiser-ready), locked in a Shotlock.
I have a question about that set-up. We tried something similar in our house but the constant influx of dust and dirt made us worry about effectiveness if we had to actually use it. On a farm in the country we have dirt and cat or dog hair everywhere and no amount of vacuuming will discover the glob that through the law of selective gravity migrates to the inside of the barrel. So the question is can you hang that with the barrel down? That would solve some of the dirt issues.
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  #73  
Old 12-07-2014, 11:32 AM
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I have a question about that set-up. We tried something similar in our house but the constant influx of dust and dirt made us worry about effectiveness if we had to actually use it. On a farm in the country we have dirt and cat or dog hair everywhere and no amount of vacuuming will discover the glob that through the law of selective gravity migrates to the inside of the barrel. So the question is can you hang that with the barrel down? That would solve some of the dirt issues.
A: Yes, you can, but . . .

B: Unless you get verticle mud slides, there is no amount of cat dander in a barrel that will keep that weapon from firing . . .
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  #74  
Old 12-07-2014, 12:31 PM
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"Up close and personal...." to me that 3 feet/arm's length or less...............

This rules out long guns .....IMHO.....attacker is already "inside" the muzzle..... and you really need two hands on the weapon.......

Autos at contact distance have a higher likelihood of turning into a single shot weapon than a revolver.......limp wrist or attacker/defender putting contact drag on slide............

IMHO at contact distance;.... a .44/45 special hollow point revolver w/ a less than 4" barrel.........

from what I own; a 3" model 66 with 125gr. hollow points..........

If you've got "room" I prefer a .223 to a shotgun..................but would take a shotgun (in hand) over a handgun if we are talking more than 12ft

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  #75  
Old 12-10-2014, 10:11 AM
BaaBaa BaaBaa is offline
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Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
A: Yes, you can, but . . .

B: Unless you get verticle mud slides, there is no amount of cat dander in a barrel that will keep that weapon from firing . . .
I guess it's my small bit of neatnik, I clean my guns after every time at the range and to me cat hair and dander in a defensive weapon is a potential risk. I guess I'll rethink that. Thanks for pointing out the obvious that the cat hair won't make one whit of difference in firing ability.
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  #76  
Old 12-10-2014, 01:22 PM
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I guess it's my small bit of neatnik, I clean my guns after every time at the range and to me cat hair and dander in a defensive weapon is a potential risk. I guess I'll rethink that. Thanks for pointing out the obvious that the cat hair won't make one whit of difference in firing ability.
Or put another way; If cat hair and dander WILL prevent your firearm from shooting....you need a new choice of firearm!
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:27 AM
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Depends on how close "up close and personal" is. If it's at arms length or closer, I'm taking the revolver. Leaves a hand free to defend, and if the guy is on top of me, I can push it into his ribs and pull the trigger without it going out of battery.
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranger514 View Post
That's right. I'm a Team of One You totally sidestepped the proven effectiveness of the combat shotgun in close quarters. In a recent thread you posted promoting a new .380 Browning modeled after the 1911, you said the mere presentation of a handgun often deters BGs. Using your logic, I'd surmise that presenting and racking the slide of a defensive design pump shotgun would create an even greater deterrent. I suggest you take a tactical combat shotgun course. It might change your opinion of the cqc application of the 12 ga.
I've seen that effect for myself. Couple years ago we had a disturbance call. Two officers arrived, and due to the details of the call, had 4 guys at gunpoint. The guys weren't listening to commands, taunting the officers, etc. I get there,pull out the shotgun and shhhhhkt shhhhhkt, all four guys immediately shut up and got on the ground when they heard that.
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  #79  
Old 12-11-2014, 11:53 AM
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Post#13 is the best answer.
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Old 12-11-2014, 12:51 PM
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My soft, pink blanky.
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