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Old 11-22-2014, 02:31 PM
dogngun dogngun is offline
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Default Thinking about going back to my .38 Special Smiths for carry...

I have a few and the 2 I would carry would be my 10-6 or my 62-2...I would use those old FBI loads, Remington 158 grain LHP +P if I could find a few boxes...Don't know if they are even made these days.

My 10-6, one of my all time favorite DA revolvers...

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Old 11-22-2014, 04:06 PM
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Why not? Looks like a winner to me.

Do you mean "64-2"?

I see the Federal FBI loads online occasionally. I grabbed 3 boxes last year at a gun show in Tarentum, PA.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:15 PM
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Why not? A revolver's always been a solid choice for SD.

Incidentally, Remington still makes their FBI load under their new HTP line. Finding it for sale anywhere, however, is another matter entirely...
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:28 PM
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When I leave the house I go the to the safe and grab a model 60 with a 2in barrel to take with me.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogngun View Post
I have a few and the 2 I would carry would be my 10-6 or my 62-2...I would use those old FBI loads, Remington 158 grain LHP +P if I could find a few boxes...Don't know if they are even made these days.

My 10-6, one of my all time favorite DA revolvers...

You gotta love the "Bull Barrel"
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:05 PM
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My preference would be to carry my M10 snub but given my old man problems it's just too heavy for anything but home defense so my EDC is a J frame. As to the FBI load you might try Buffalo Bore, they make a standard and +P
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:33 PM
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My 64-2 2" California Dept. of Corrections Law Enforcement surplus with Federal 147 grain Hydra Shock +P+ would do just fine. I just don't carry it that often, but it's a good have ready at the house on the weekend gun.
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Old 11-22-2014, 05:34 PM
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My Mod 10 HB is a great gun. Police trade in. I carry a 638 for my EDC gun. 15 oz vs 28oz for the model 10 4"
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoMF View Post
Why not? A revolver's always been a solid choice for SD.

Incidentally, Remington still makes their FBI load under their new HTP line. Finding it for sale anywhere, however, is another matter entirely...
Unfortunately, as mentioned on a couple of threads here, one of our members (and, I think, some other folks) have chronographed the HTP line and found it clocks markedly slower than Remington's fine old +P FBI load, which I carried for years.

The load that almost exactly matches the earlier Remington stuff, softer lead and all, and offers the advantages of gas-checked bullets and reduced flash, is the standard-pressure Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWCHP-GC. It's what I carry now.
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:08 PM
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Plus one on this ^^^^^^^^

Look no further for a good carry load.
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:10 PM
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Lots of great new guns out there, but those got the job done for years. I would be perfectly satisfied with that.
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:20 PM
Shorty 45 MK2 Shorty 45 MK2 is offline
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If you shoot them well go for it!

I carry a 642 as a bug and a 2" model 10 in the summer or when I'm going in town but prefer my 4567 for out around the "farm" since I may need to take a longer shot at two or four legged varmints.
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shouldazagged View Post
Unfortunately, as mentioned on a couple of threads here, one of our members (and, I think, some other folks) have chronographed the HTP line and found it clocks markedly slower than Remington's fine old +P FBI load, which I carried for years.
Maybe so, but it should work fine from service length barrels for the same reason Winchester's version does.

.38 Special LSWCHP +P: Still a Top Load?
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:04 PM
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I love the 38, that and 9s are what I have most of...
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
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Thinking about going back to my .38 Special Smiths for carry...
Well, unless I missed it in the comments, you don't say what's been your usual or normal carry gun. So I'd be interested to know that, just for comparison's sake.

And you don't say why you may be thinking about going back to carrying a revolver. What factors might be turning you away from your present carry gun?

Just curious...
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Old 11-22-2014, 08:17 PM
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I have lots of great autos; but when it comes to a self-defense gun, it will ONLY be a revolver for me (as always, in my humble opinion, which has held well for over 70 years :-))).
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Old 11-22-2014, 09:45 PM
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I stay w/my revolver & the FBI load b/c that's what saved my butt when the chips were down. Experience is the best teacher.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:22 PM
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I must be suffering from the same condition as a lot of you guys. About 8 months ago I bought a 10-6 that was just about the twin of the OP's and I liked it so much that it found its way onto my hip and it's still there as I type this. But it gets worse; just yesterday I threw away perfectly good money so that I could have yet another heavy barrel K-38, this time in stainless and DAO. I mean, what kind of moron gets two of basically the same pistol? I think I need help.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:34 PM
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I am issued a Tupperware pistol for work, but I almost always have at least one .38 revolver on me when not at work, usually a 1970's Model 60 with a bobbed hammer in a Wild Bill's pocket holster. I sometimes wear a tuxedo for my second job as a professional musician and my old Model 10 4" standard barrel round butt revolver in an old Bianchi #6 clip on IWB holster works better in this role than any other handgun I have. By the way, all my .38s are carried with the Winchester 158 grain LHP loads...
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:38 PM
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Watchdog - Just looking for a change of pace...I have been carrying different handguns over the last 25 years or so...and shooting different types since around 1970. AND the weather here is becoming heavy coat weather, so I can go a little bigger. I had been carrying various pistols from a KT P32 to a High Power...but have not carried a K frame for some years now...Very comfortable and slick.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:40 PM
Kframerbluvr Kframerbluvr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19ontheslide View Post
I must be suffering from the same condition as a lot of you guys. About 8 months ago I bought a 10-6 that was just about the twin of the OP's and I liked it so much that it found its way onto my hip and it's still there as I type this. But it gets worse; just yesterday I threw away perfectly good money so that I could have yet another heavy barrel K-38, this time in stainless and DAO. I mean, what kind of moron gets two of basically the same pistol? I think I need help.
I feel your pain.. I have a weakness for any decent fixed sight K-frame or Ruger GP series .38 revolvers. I have bought one of each this year so far in addition to the .38 M10 described in my earlier post. If I can locate a 3" M10 round butt or M64 at a decent price, I would pounce on it in a second.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:48 PM
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Watchdog - Just looking for a change of pace...
I understand. And after all, variety is the spice of life.
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:44 AM
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About a year of two back I got the sixgun bug and bought a Colt Official Police .38, soon after a Smith 10-8 and 64-2 joined the club!
Thanks for the info on the Buffalo load and that Winchester still loads the FBI load! My stash of "real" Remington is getting low!
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:43 AM
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My oldest handgun is also my favorite, and my go-to gun for home defense. It is a nickel plated 4-inch 19-3 loaded with 357mag JHP. With or without the Crimson Trace laser I shoot this gun as well or better than my other handguns, but I do find it just a tad too big for comfortable concealed carry. So mostly I carry either my 640 loaded with 38+p or my new Ruger LC9s with 8 rounds of 9mm Hornady Critical Defense. But reliable as this Ruger has been so far, in honesty, it doesn't give me the total confidence of a S&W revolver.
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Old 11-23-2014, 10:56 AM
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Pocket carry is far and the way most convenient for me these days, so when I carry, it's mostly my 2" 36 "no-dash" in the pocket holster I made for it.

I use the Federal 158gr. LSWC-HP "FBI" load in it.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:07 AM
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What is "LSWC-HP"?
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:12 AM
Shorty 45 MK2 Shorty 45 MK2 is offline
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What is "LSWC-HP"?
Lead semi wad cutter hollow point.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:15 AM
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LS means lucky strike -- an old type of cigarette.
WC means water closet -- the Continental name for a rest room.
HP is a silicon valley technology company that used to be great -- but not any more.

Seriously, it means:

Lead Semi-wadcutter hollow point.

Usually a soft lead (non jacketed) bullet that has a hollow cavity on the front to make it expand on impact. Used to be used by the FBI so it's sometimes called the FBI load.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:29 AM
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I've often wondered why lead bullets, unjacketed are called "semi wad cutter", instead of just "wad cutter". I've always thought of these rounds as cheaper target rounds, and thought the jacketed hollow points were considered better self defense rounds. I will admit I have no expertise in this area.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:40 AM
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I will never feel unarmed with a good S&W .38 Special revolver, and the Military & Police series (Model 10, 12, 13, 64, 65) is one of the most practical defensive handguns ever made. I've had most of them through the years, and still have a 2" Model 64 and a 3"HB Model 10. Either one of those is more than enough to keep me comfortable in just about any situation.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
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I've often wondered why lead bullets, unjacketed are called "semi wad cutter", instead of just "wad cutter". I've always thought of these rounds as cheaper target rounds, and thought the jacketed hollow points were considered better self defense rounds. I will admit I have no expertise in this area.
Well I grew up thinking lead full bore diameter bullets were wad cutters, and lead bullets that had a taper were called "Semi"

Jacketed slugs can normally be loaded to much higher velocities than pure lead slugs do to leading.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
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I've often wondered why lead bullets, unjacketed are called "semi wad cutter", instead of just "wad cutter". I've always thought of these rounds as cheaper target rounds, and thought the jacketed hollow points were considered better self defense rounds. I will admit I have no expertise in this area.
A true wadcutter is cylindrical in shape, designed to cut neat holes in paper targets for easy scoring on the range.

The semi-wadcutter has a cylindrical body with sharp edges and a tapered point, usually with a flat face. These are much easier to load in a revolver cylinder than the blunt wadcutter rounds.

Both wadcutters and semi-wadcutters are unjacketed, made of lead (or lead alloys) cast or swaged to final shape. The softer the bullet metal the better the performance is likely to be for defensive purposes. Unjacketed lead bullets are always much softer than any bullet jacket material (copper, brass, or alloys of such materials), thus being generally good for defensive handgun bullets. Adding a hollow point usually increases the tendencies of these bullets to expand on impact, reducing penetration, and transferring energy more efficiently to the target.

Jacketed hollow point bullets can allow loading to higher pressures and velocities without leading in the barrel, forcing cone, and chambers. If (and that is always a big IF) the jacketed hollow point performs as intended it will generally perform well for defensive purposes (expand, transfer energy to the target, limit penetration).

Generally speaking, lead semi-wadcutter bullets are considered to be a good all purpose choice for practice, training, and defensive use.
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Old 11-23-2014, 11:57 AM
Shorty 45 MK2 Shorty 45 MK2 is offline
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I've often wondered why lead bullets, unjacketed are called "semi wad cutter", instead of just "wad cutter". I've always thought of these rounds as cheaper target rounds, and thought the jacketed hollow points were considered better self defense rounds. I will admit I have no expertise in this area.
Wadcutters are flat on the end and semi wadcutters are more cone shaped. (See photo below.)

HP are generally better SD ammo but the FBI load takes the best of both worlds and uses the better cutting action of the semi wadcutters with the expiation of the hollow point.
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:06 PM
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As a person that carried a Model 60 in the mid 70s early 80s I have been thinking about going back to a circle gun for CCW.

I have 4 shorty wheel guns that would do yeoman duty as a CCW!(Above mentioned model 60), 642(no lock) and a Colt Dick specia .38l. 66 2/12 is just a little big /heavy for general carry but if situation warranted would do just fine. Of course I have a few even bigger 4'' if necessary.

I just like the feel and heft of a good revolver.

As of now my casual carry gun is a S&W Bodyguard.380, it fits fine in a pocket (holster) and it would take a pat down or metal detector to know I am armed. My '"city" or more potential trouble expected gun is a XDS.45 carried with the short magazine for better concealment and a longer mag available for a reload.
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:17 PM
ironhead7544 ironhead7544 is offline
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Nothing wrong with a 38 Special and the right ammo for self defense. I sometimes use a 4 inch BL M12-3 RB for carry. Lighter than some J frames and I can shoot it well. And it doesnt throw the brass all over the place, a consideration when you handload.
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:21 PM
getoff getoff is offline
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i do bust out an old wheelie now and then... 64 -3, or an old police positive. i don't feel under gunned except in very crowded places. thats what my G17 is for...
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:40 PM
ironhead7544 ironhead7544 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vito View Post
I've often wondered why lead bullets, unjacketed are called "semi wad cutter", instead of just "wad cutter". I've always thought of these rounds as cheaper target rounds, and thought the jacketed hollow points were considered better self defense rounds. I will admit I have no expertise in this area.
The true wadcutters start to lose stability at around 50 yards. The semi wadcutter shape will hold accuracy better at longer ranges, if you can hit out there.

The semi wadcutter still has a sharp shoulder that will cut a clean hole in paper when it gets to a velocity high enough. It was also thought that when the semi wadcutter hits flesh, it would make a sharp clean edged wound that would let out more blood. There are also some flat point bullets that do not have this shoulder but look like a semi wadcutter.

Many years ago, Elmer Keith designed some long range semi wadcutter bullets for various revolver cartridges. You will see some semi wadcutters advertised as "Keith type" but his designs are very specific and many people believe in them for any purpose.

The hollow point semi wadcutters were designed to give expansion when desired. They are generally softer lead to allow this expansion. For many years the 38 Special 158 gr factory LSWCHP +P was considered the best you could do with that cartridge for defense. Today, I would go with one of the two Buffalo Bore loads with a soft LSWCHPGC. The GC stands for "gas check", a little copper cap on the back of the bullet that helps keep leading out of the barrel.

If you do get leading in the barrel, it can easily be removed by wrapping some material from an all copper scouring pad made by Chore Boy. Use enough for a tight fit in the bore.
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:12 PM
Tyree1867 Tyree1867 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vito View Post
I've often wondered why lead bullets, unjacketed are called "semi wad cutter", instead of just "wad cutter". I've always thought of these rounds as cheaper target rounds, and thought the jacketed hollow points were considered better self defense rounds.
My Dad, NYPD 1941-1978, carried 158gr full wadcutters in both his duty & off duty revolvers for many years. The choices were lead round nose or the WC. He felt the WC was the better defense choice of the two. In later years he carried SWC off duty. Hollow points of any kind were prohibited. Any similar experiences?

Last edited by Tyree1867; 11-23-2014 at 01:13 PM. Reason: correct typo
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:55 PM
Watchdog Watchdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vito View Post
I've often wondered why lead bullets, unjacketed are called "semi wad cutter", instead of just "wad cutter".
As others have said, they're two different types of bullet. The wadcutters I used to use had a hollow base. Back in the seventies, we would often load them with the hollow base out...sort of a giant hollow point.
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Old 11-23-2014, 02:03 PM
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I have a 13-3 in my nightstand, a model 36 IWB, and a 35 year old Speed Six in my car. Feel very safe.
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Old 11-23-2014, 03:55 PM
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The revolver isn't obsolete, and is still a viable defensive handgun, especially in the hands of an experienced revolver shooter.

While the venerable 158gr LSWCHP/LHP +P worked pretty well for many years, nowadays we do have some other choices utilizing some more modern hollowpoint bullet designs that would've been the envy of many revolver shooters 30-50 years ago.
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Old 11-25-2014, 10:26 PM
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Tyree1867 many large agencies were/are more concnerned with politcal image and cost rather than what actually made sense. A lot of big Cities refused the use of holow points, because they were too inhumane. Most have seen the light.
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Old 11-25-2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
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I feel your pain.. I have a weakness for any decent fixed sight K-frame or Ruger GP series .38 revolvers. I have bought one of each this year so far in addition to the .38 M10 described in my earlier post. If I can locate a 3" M10 round butt or M64 at a decent price, I would pounce on it in a second.
I have 3...

I have the one pictured, a stainless 65-2 in '357 magnum and my late wife's Model 15-7, which is slick as glass and might be my final choice...


The Magnum..


The 15 - 7 and it's little friend...



Or maybe....
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Old 11-26-2014, 09:51 PM
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Most every day I carry a 36 with a bobbed hammer or a 442 no lock.
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Old 11-26-2014, 10:28 PM
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Default If you can carry/conceal it....

If you can carry and conceal it, those are great choices.
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:31 AM
Brian41 Brian41 is offline
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I too went back to carrying revolvers a few years back. I started with them and trust them.
I usually pocket carry a model 37 but at times have carried model 66, 686 plus and 15, all snubbies.
I am restricted here on where I can carry and have to leave my gun in my vehicle at times. Since there is the chance they could get stolen is another reason I use more inexpensive revolvers than say my Kimber Ultra CDP.
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:38 AM
mickeyblueyes mickeyblueyes is offline
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I concur my friends, Sunspots will never melt my 642PC enhanced trigger,filled with Winchester Ranger +P+. When you see the flash....smile

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Old 11-29-2014, 08:31 PM
Jaymo Jaymo is offline
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Don't you know that a .38 SWCHP moving at over 1000 fps won't expand and will just make a bad guy mad, whereas a 9mm HP with a heavy jacket that moves at less than 1000 fps is a supreme fight stopper????
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:53 PM
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Don't you know that a .38 SWCHP moving at over 1000 fps won't expand and will just make a bad guy mad, whereas a 9mm HP with a heavy jacket that moves at less than 1000 fps is a supreme fight stopper????
I don't know were you got this info from about the 158 LSWHP, but I will tell you from real life you are very wrong!!!!!!!!! been carrying since the 80's and even if it doesn't expand I've never seen it piss anybody off.
a matter of fact when things were said and done they are not here to complain to anyone!!!

remember shot placement is the king of all shootings.
now I cary just Jim Cirillo's Safe Stops or plain full wadcutters, solid LSWC and never feel under gunned. As for the 9mm I will agree with you I do like 147 grainers.

And what would Jim Cirillo do Carry his Safe Stops or when he didn't have any of those around a full plated wadcutter
all loaded at 750 FPS out of a snub and.

Last edited by pete950; 11-29-2014 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 11-30-2014, 12:36 PM
CO_Kid CO_Kid is offline
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Pete, that was tongue in cheek. He's referring to the non-logic used by police admin when going to the "wondernines" over the 38 special decades ago.
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