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  #51  
Old 12-20-2014, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt JL View Post
I mentioned this one other time. Once, many years ago when I was working vice, I got a no-shot stop with a .25acp. I was about to take a real ***-whippin, but when I stuck that .25 in his ear, he stopped.
Yeah, but that's only because he didn't know what caliber you were using!
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Old 12-20-2014, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Actually, the Beretta Jetfire Bond used was 25cal. The PPK Major Boothroyd gave him is 7.65m/32cal. There's a story behind the change, pretty sure it's been detailed elsewhere here.
Actually, the Beretta 418 James Bond used was 6.35/25acp...
  #53  
Old 12-20-2014, 01:24 AM
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Protected One, he knew he only had a .26 caliber ear!!
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Old 12-20-2014, 01:47 AM
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For some reason the most feared weapon I had when I worked the streets was my Taser. Whenever I unholstered my sidearm it didn't seem as though anyone was impressed that much, unless it went bang, but when they saw the Taser and the red dot, everybody usually quit, it seemed nobody really wanted to take the 5 sec. ride. Go figure.
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:05 AM
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Default Lots of good information here

2 Questions RE .380 Ammuntion
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  #56  
Old 12-20-2014, 03:00 AM
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I'm going to chime in here only because I choose a 9mm over a .380 for my carry gun based on reasons that had nothing to do with ballistics. Price and ease of finding ammo. Having said that, a good friend has several .380's and I've shot all of them and I still like shooting my Shield more than any of his .380's, which include a Bersa Thunder, Bersa Thunder CC and a Taurus TCP.

I am far more accurate with my Shield9 than I am with any of the others, and their recoil is far more snappy. His EDC is his Thunder CC and his Wife's is the TCP. She likes it and is comfortable with it and that's all that really matters.

If it wasn't for price and availability, I probably would have ended up with a Thunder CC as my EDC because it's not bad to shoot and size.
  #57  
Old 12-20-2014, 09:42 AM
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I have a couple 380s and one 32 acp that I sometimes carry. I normally will carry a J frame in 38 special though as being just a bit bigger it has a bigger bullet. Then too though it has only 5 shots so a drawback to everything small to conceal carry.
The only thing I've shot with a 380 was a feral cat and it didn't go far. I do know from my wife's experience in a big city OR the 380 and smaller bullets have done a lot of damage and usually have taken the fight out of her patients.
As stated already the gun you do take with you is much better than the bigger one you left behind. I know I carried my 32 before and after my back surgery as it was small and light. Sure sometimes I wished for bigger but it was enough weight for me to carry at the time and made me feel protected.
  #58  
Old 12-20-2014, 11:40 AM
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"Worthless"? No.

Are there better choices, depending upon the application? Yes.

Would I carry a .380? For pocket carry, absolutely. In anything bigger than a Walther PPK/S? Nope. At that point it needs to be a 9x19mm or bigger.

Is .380 optimal? No, but I'd use it in a small enough gun. I'd NEVER carry a .32acp.
  #59  
Old 12-20-2014, 12:17 PM
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I wouldn't call it the best out there but if you can get good hits with it at speed and with one and two hands I don't see why not.

Mostly it depends on what you are doing at the time, I rather have a snub .38 if I'm attacked in an elevator than a Browning M2 .50 HMG but if I'm being shot at 100+ yards I'd want the .50!

The biggest thing is do YOU have confidence in the pistol and ammo you are using.

I was talking to a friend who thinks I'm horribly out gunned with my 7+1 compact .45 and two spare magazines, (didn't tell him that also carry a six shot .38 snub from time to time. ) granted he thinks that a striker fired double stack 9mm is the best and only pistol that someone should use for SD.

We can and will be discussing this probably as long as there is internet forums.

Where's the pop corn?
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  #60  
Old 12-20-2014, 12:28 PM
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It's really pretty simple. Carry the biggest gun that:
A: You will carry all the time
B: You can shoot well
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  #61  
Old 12-20-2014, 05:58 PM
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The best gun to carry is one you can shoot and works properly. I have seen dead people killed by 22s 12ga shot guns and yes 380s. some were a little messed up more than others but they were indeed all dead. Carry the 380 if you like it, can shoot it, and its functions well.
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  #62  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlight View Post
i was talking to a fellow who told me that the 380 was a worthless choice for a defensive round. I think that a larger caliber would probably be better, but a 380 with well placed hits would be a good caliber to conceal carry. What do you think?

" a worthless choice"..... not exactly .....

The best? Not exactly.

Better than the bread knife at your favorite restaurant ? Yes

Better than your car keys in the parking lot, after dinner. Yes

Better than that tiny little pencil in the pew at church? Yes.

Better than a #2 can of Peas at the grocery store? Yes.

Better than a paper cup of black coffee at the gas station/convenience store? Yes


Better than a mug of hot chocolate at a cafe in Sidney Australia? Yes




That's just my opinion!!!!!!

Make up your own mind ...... "but don't leave home without it!"

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  #63  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:18 PM
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First rule for participating in a gunfight: Have a gun.

I carry either a Kel Tec P-32 in a back pocket holster or a P3AT in my front pocket with a pocket clip every day. I'm thinking about a NAA .22 WMR to change things up. Self defense situations are often close up nasty messes. Caliber doesn't matter. Placement matters. Be familiar with your carry gun and how it works, and have it accessible. Everything after that is Ford vs. Chevy hot stove league talk.
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  #64  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:32 PM
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On Oct 2, 1996 a subject fired at my entry team 5 times with a Colt Mustang .380. We were really determined to get him, dressed in body armor and a bunker shield but I can assure you when he started firing that .380 it didn't matter if it was a .380, .22, or a .50 BMG. When the rds are coming at your it changes your focus in life in a hurry.
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  #65  
Old 12-20-2014, 06:40 PM
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Default .380 to the Rescue

I would have to agree with most of the responders in support of the .380. A CCW, if he ever uses his weapon, it will be in personal defense rather than in trying to stop a terrorist assault. Also, the .380 was the standard police chambering in many European countries using ball ammo, where it is known as the 9mm Corto, or Short. Apparently, they thought it was enough gun.
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  #66  
Old 12-20-2014, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by labworm View Post
Always wanted a NAA .22 short, never got around to buying one.
I also have like yourself the PPK, Colt Government and Sig P238 in .380, all excellent shooters and easy to carry. Also have the PPK in .32 ACP
I do not have a colt .380. I got the chance to shoot one and was spoiled by my particular PPK/s. The NAA is an absolute hoot to play with. I like it for sheer fun value. At 250$ with a box of ammo how can you say no?
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  #67  
Old 12-20-2014, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Actually, the Beretta Jetfire Bond used was 25cal. The PPK Major Boothroyd gave him is 7.65m/32cal. There's a story behind the change, pretty sure it's been detailed elsewhere here.
I've never heard it.

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  #68  
Old 12-20-2014, 09:49 PM
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I would probably would not be here today , no let me rephrase this I would not be here today if it wasn't for the 380 calb. that I was carrying as my back up gun 19 years ago. With the new ammo that we have now I would feel comfortable with the 380.
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  #69  
Old 12-20-2014, 10:22 PM
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If a .25 ACP was good enough for a fictional secret agent who never breathed an actual breath on this Earth and was concocted for the purposes of entertaining a reader, than it's good enough for me.

That's why I carry a Beretta .25... because you know, James Bond used it and all.

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Old 12-20-2014, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Fowler View Post
The Sept/Oct 1913 "American Handgunner" had an excellent article on stopping power. It was very well done. I suggest you read it, consider what style of handgun you want to carry and make your decision. The 32 acp ranked first, 72% one shot stops, closely followed by the 380, 62%, .357 mag. 61% then 22 rimfire 60%. It is an article well worth reading.
I have seen many of these types of studies and all of them leave more questions than they answer for me. This study did not mention where shot placement was, what ammo was used and most importantly it didn't give number of examples per caliber. In the case of the 32 ACP to get those results required only 3 examples. While the far more popular 45ACP might have had many examples to draw conclusions from.

From the instances I have studied by far the most important factors were accuracy and penetration.
  #71  
Old 12-21-2014, 01:08 AM
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I carry a glock 42 (380) daily as a back up and feel very confident with this pistol. It shoots better than a lot of my other guns.
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  #72  
Old 12-21-2014, 01:30 AM
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Personally I don't like to go below .38 Special in a pocket-carried DAO J-frame; but that for me has as much to do with simplicity and reliability as it does with the round I carry, which is the old FBI load. I simply trust the revolver more in case I ever am forced to fire a gun with a less than perfect hold on it, and I like not having to deal with a safety.

I think .380 ACP is fine if you can shoot it well and have one you trust to speak its lines on cue 100% of the time. It isn't for me, but I'm old and set in my ways.

If I were to get a .380 I would want one that fired from a locked breech, not a simple blowback. Again, just me. The blowback designs can, I'm told, be pretty brusque in recoil, and I have bad hands.

Near the top of the thread I posted that you wouldn't find consensus. Actually you seem to have gotten more than I would have expected.
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Old 12-21-2014, 02:27 AM
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If you recall Bond also had a sharpened firing pin in his .25. He was also known by sight to many of his adversaries. Neither of these points seem to serve a useful purpose for getting the mission accomplished quite the contrary.
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John R View Post
I've never heard it.

John, in short: in the book and movie "Dr. No", the character James Bond had previously used a .25 ACP Beretta as his spy gun, and in his previous adventure, it malfunctioned at a crucial moment which resulted in his spending an extended time in hospital. M, his supervisor, insisted that he change weapons, and he was provided a PPK in .32 ACP. In the book "The Spy Who Loved Me", he carried the PPK and a Colt Detective Special.

The author of the books and inventor of the character is said to have had limited real experience with firearms.

The PPK is a beautiful weapon. Every one I've fired has been accurate and reliable. I'd carry one if I had one. I usually carry a 642 revolver, though. I recently purchased a 3913, and it is getting some carry time as well.
  #75  
Old 12-21-2014, 11:04 AM
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Let me introduce you to Massad Ayoob he can answer this question for you without the I have never done that before IMHO crowd giving advice.
  #76  
Old 12-21-2014, 11:22 AM
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Let me introduce you to Massad Ayoob he can answer this question for you without the I have never done that before IMHO crowd giving advice.
I just spent about ten minutes using a search engine, and can't find the answer to this question: Has Massad Ayoob ever fired a weapon in a self defense situation? One would think that his CV or at least his Wikipedia page would mention it. If it's well known that he has, and I'm not well enough read, then so be it.
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Old 12-21-2014, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
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I'm going to chime in here only because I choose a 9mm over a .380 for my carry gun based on reasons that had nothing to do with ballistics. Price and ease of finding ammo. Having said that, a good friend has several .380's and I've shot all of them and I still like shooting my Shield more than any of his .380's, which include a Bersa Thunder, Bersa Thunder CC and a Taurus TCP.

I am far more accurate with my Shield9 than I am with any of the others, and their recoil is far more snappy. His EDC is his Thunder CC and his Wife's is the TCP. She likes it and is comfortable with it and that's all that really matters.

If it wasn't for price and availability, I probably would have ended up with a Thunder CC as my EDC because it's not bad to shoot and size.
Ammo cost and availability aside, shoot a Glock 42 and I think you will have different view of .380.
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Old 12-21-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I just spent about ten minutes using a search engine, and can't find the answer to this question: Has Massad Ayoob ever fired a weapon in a self defense situation? One would think that his CV or at least his Wikipedia page would mention it. If it's well known that he has, and I'm not well enough read, then so be it.
Be careful. I once asked a similar question (not here) and was chastized. When I knew of him in New Hampshire he was a part time police officer. Somehow he became an expert on self defense.
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:56 AM
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Thanks to all of you for the great input. I've found all your info very helpful. Have you seen the following test on the different brands of .380 ammo? I thought it was well done. What do you think??

Final Results of the .380 ACP Ammo Quest | Shooting The Bull
  #80  
Old 12-24-2014, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I just spent about ten minutes using a search engine, and can't find the answer to this question: Has Massad Ayoob ever fired a weapon in a self defense situation? One would think that his CV or at least his Wikipedia page would mention it. If it's well known that he has, and I'm not well enough read, then so be it.
No he has not, but is considered a expert witness and has reviewed many shootings.

I agree with a lot of his stuff but think there is something to learn from most instructors out there none being the "one" source. (Even Jeff Cooper or James Yeager. )
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:34 PM
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.380 is just fine, don't believe the range commandos......

people at my job were talking about the newer Glock 42 and saying they wouldnt "trust" .380 for defense....hogwash, some of the newer loads like Civil Defense have as much energy as .38 Special. I for one don't want a 90 grain .380 caliber piece of metal piercing into my body cavity at 1300 fps.

I honestly don't believe even the most drug addled attacker is going to shrug off a .380 to the frontal lobe or sternum.

There's a line you have to draw, everyone always has an opinion and no caliber is big enough for some people unless you're carrying a S&W .500.....I often carry a Beretta Bobcat .25 which is blasphemy for some people but 10 rounds of hot Fiocchi .25 FMJ is a decent get off me payload.

Sure if you can carry a larger gun, do so. But my LCP is so light it's easy to carry when I can't carry anything else. When I'm in gym shorts and a t-shirt I can't conceal even my S&W 60 or Airweight but I can make my LCP disappear.

I also carry NAA Mini revolvers in .22 Short and LR.

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Old 01-01-2015, 11:42 PM
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carried a Sig .380 when in a suit and a beretta .32 when undercover always felt well armed . Think shot placement.

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Old 01-02-2015, 12:21 AM
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I didn't need a Beretta 84F 14-shot 380...but when I saw a nice Israeli surplus one for less than $300, I bought it. Figured I would shoot it a few times, the sell or trade it.
Well, I found I really like the 84F. Fits my hand well, good heft and pointability, accurate and reliable. Nice safe design, too.
So, while I have other suitable options like my G26 9mm or my GP100 3", the Beretta is in my belt right now.
  #84  
Old 01-02-2015, 12:25 AM
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.380 is fine. It's always about shot.placement and always has been. When I did ccw I did Glock 42. I do have a Glock 19 and 32 by my bed though
  #85  
Old 01-02-2015, 12:53 AM
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Anyone thinking about buying a .380 I would ask "Why bother?"
Everyone should already have a 9mm and new 9mm mini pistols like the Sig P938 are just so small there is no reason I could think of to add another caliber to your collection. Keep it simple and maintain the power of a 9mm JHP.
  #86  
Old 01-02-2015, 03:18 AM
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I have wanted a Beretta 84 for a while, but I've also been looking for a CZ-83 .380. I had a CZ82 9x18 I foolishly sold when a small part broke inside of it, 9x18 is a good round and those guns are very reliable. I had a CZ83 .32 but that dissapeared when I split from my wife.....

I had a commercial .380 Baikal Makarov that shot like a dream, very pleasant to shoot and very accurate. I should have kept that one. There's just something cool about medium sized all-steel .380 pistols.
  #87  
Old 01-02-2015, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATF View Post
Anyone thinking about buying a .380 I would ask "Why bother?"
Everyone should already have a 9mm and new 9mm mini pistols like the Sig P938 are just so small there is no reason I could think of to add another caliber to your collection. Keep it simple and maintain the power of a 9mm JHP.
Like several others on the forum, you seem to miss the point.
The fact that 9mm pistols are available in sizes similar to that of most 380's is NOT the only determining factor in purchasing. In fact...it may not even be the most important.

The trend of building larger calibers into smaller and smaller platforms is the gun industries response to the rising demand for concealable carry handguns. "Gotta give the people what they want" is their motto. Many people, mostly new to ccw and lacking a solid education on ballistics, believe that having a large caliber (45acp, .40S&W,357mag, 9mm) is a "must", but they still want a small package for carry. They give little or no thought to the fact that the recoil may be unmanageable for them, preventing the ability to accurately put shots (or follow up shots) on target. Some, my wife for example, are keenly aware that they are recoil sensitive and need something they can shoot accurately. For them the .380 (or even a .22magnum) fits the bill.

Ultimately, everyone will make this choice for themselves, as you obviously have. But just as you have reasons for the choice you made, there are valid reasons for other people to make a different choice.
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  #88  
Old 01-02-2015, 04:27 AM
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A .380 is better than stern looks and harsh words , and I wouldn't care to be shot with one , etc . A full sized metal frame .380 ( think the Berreta 84 from above) will have minimal recoil, important for people with severe arthritus , carpal tunnel , and other hand disabilities. Modern subcompact .380's are close to the size of many .25acps , and the .380 is a step up. I used to carry a .380 in the 1980's .( Note , I didn't in '90s , '00s , or to date in 'teens )

Blowbacl .380s kick like a mule . In my hands , my subcompact .380 was more punishing than a .44mag ( more to due with hand fit than physics ). For a brief slice of history , that particular .380 was the most-est power in the smaller-est package , and I put up with it for that reason...for a while.

Modern polymer subcompact 9mm's are similar sized to previous .380's . But provide an entirely different level of performance. I moved on to Airweight J frames and subcompact 9 as BUGs , and never looked back.

Ironicaly , I like .32acp . If one places any faith to studies based on real world results ( at least in cals with a large number of dtat points ) , compared bullet type to bullet type ( fmj vs fmj , jhp vs jhp ) , the .32acp was within two percentage points of the .380acp . But with much less recoil , and resultant much better control and practical accuraccy..
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  #89  
Old 01-02-2015, 04:43 AM
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Ironicaly , I like .32acp . If one places any faith to studies based on real world results ( at least in cals with a large number of dtat points ) , compared bullet type to bullet type ( fmj vs fmj , jhp vs jhp ) , the .32acp was within two percentage points of the .380acp . But with much less recoil , and resultant much better control and practical accuraccy..
I had a conversation with a local LEO the other day. His department issue is a 357sig, which he hates. This man is a lifelong hunter and firearms aficionado, and he too loves the .32 as a self defense round over .380.
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  #90  
Old 01-02-2015, 05:02 AM
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Protect One posted while I was pecking at the mini-keyboard.

The first two thirds of his post make excellent points. When asked , the masses will reply they want : Most smallest , Most lightest , AND most powerful . This not new, it has been going one since the begining of ctg handguns, and and a lot of meaningful progress has been made.But eventually the laws of physics and human ergonomics become a factor.

We have pistols too physically small to be grasped by an adult hand . We have very light very powerful pistols that can not be meaningfuly controled by 98% of users. And there is a point where shrinking a gun further doesn't provide any advantage in meaningful carry.

Sure , I've know people who carried a .22short mini revolver inside a cigarette pack ( empty of cigarettes ). I've know people to carry a Baby Browning buttoned inside a shirt pocket. But when we set our parameters to include being able to draw them quickly in a situation where the organic compost is flying, the exotic deep , deep cover modes won't cut it.

Thru first hand experience I learned that with any BUG carry mode that I could carry a .25acp with rapid access , I could as easily carry an Airweight .38 ( and later poly subcompact 9mm ) , and still be adaquately concealed.

Rather than Most small AND most powerful , what we really need is Plenty small enough , combined with reasonably powerful.

*To me* that means if I want more than a .32 , the next practical jump is subcompact 9mm or small .38 .
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  #91  
Old 01-02-2015, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
Like several others on the forum, you seem to miss the point.
The fact that 9mm pistols are available in sizes similar to that of most 380's is NOT the only determining factor in purchasing. In fact...it may not even be the most important.

The trend of building larger calibers into smaller and smaller platforms is the gun industries response to the rising demand for concealable carry handguns. "Gotta give the people what they want" is their motto. Many people, mostly new to ccw and lacking a solid education on ballistics, believe that having a large caliber (45acp, .40S&W,357mag, 9mm) is a "must", but they still want a small package for carry. They give little or no thought to the fact that the recoil may be unmanageable for them, preventing the ability to accurately put shots (or follow up shots) on target. Some, my wife for example, are keenly aware that they are recoil sensitive and need something they can shoot accurately. For them the .380 (or even a .22magnum) fits the bill.

Ultimately, everyone will make this choice for themselves, as you obviously have. But just as you have reasons for the choice you made, there are valid reasons for other people to make a different choice.
Your reasoning is sound but I try to keep it as simple as possible. My wife uses a .38 special which she has absolutely no problem with. She can handle the recoil fine because it's a heavier stainless J Frame DA/SA. I also use this on occasion especially when we are traveling together. It's no use asking her to shoot a 9mm semi-auto because if it jammed she'd be lost. Same scenario with any semi-auto women in general have problems with them, whatever the caliber is.
I was just trying to make the point that keeping your calibers as minimal as possible is one way to go. Others have different opinions of course.
Now I only use 9mm, .38 and 12 ga shotgun shells and life is so much simpler.
I believe Hitler committed suicide with a Walther .32 ACP so they do work I'm not denying that.
  #92  
Old 01-02-2015, 09:19 AM
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Well considering that the .380 has been around since 1908 I'd say that if it wasn't a decent round then it wouldn't be around for as long as it has. IMO I think the .380 is a great defensive round.

I'd like to hear more from our LEO's or those who work in the ER any stories you guys can tell us from first hand accounts of any experience dealing with 380's. I think that would give us a realistic idea of the effectivness of this round.
  #93  
Old 01-02-2015, 09:57 AM
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A GOOD QUALITY .380 SEMI-AUTO (MAYBE A SIG) WITH SOME BUFFALO BORE +P AMMO, SHOULD DO THE TRICK. RE A GOOD QUALITY .380---I PURCHASED A WALTHER PPK, YEARS AGO. IT WAS NOT CHEAP. IT CAME NICELY PACKAGED WITH A TEST TARGET. THE TEST TARGET SHOWED A TIGHT 3 SHOT GROUP, A BIT LOW AND TO THE RIGHT. I TOOK IT TO THE RANGE, AND WAS ALL OVER AND OFF THE TARGET @ 50 FEET. I MAINTAINED A SMALLBORE AVERAGE IN THE 290s FOR MANY YEARS, AND AT THE TIME, AND PROBABLY BEEN SHOOTING FOR OVER 40 YEARS. NONE OF MY FRIENDS COULD SHOOT IT WORTH A HOOT EITHER. WHAT IT DID DO WAS CUT TWO LINES IN THE WEB OF MY HAND FROM THE SHARP EDGED BACK STRAP. I SOLD IT, AFTER FOOLING WITH IT THROUGH ABOUT 2 BOXES OF FMJ AMMO. I NOTICED A POSTER ABOVE WAS VERY HAPPY WITH HIS, BUT THAT WAS NOT ME EXPERIENCE. IN ANY EVENT, I WOULD STAY AWAY FROM THE CHEAP .380s OR CHEAP SEMI-AUTOS IN GENERAL. THEY TEND TO TURN OUT TO BE JAM-O-MATICS……..
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  #94  
Old 01-02-2015, 10:57 AM
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Don't be too quick to discount the .380. With the correct ammo it can be a very effective self defense round. The best carry ammo is Buffalo Bore 100 grain hardcast lead. This bullet will penetrate through heavy layers of clothing and through rib bones to reach the vitals. 380 hollow points could possibly fill up with clothing material causing them to loose penetration ability. Another consideration is how well you can access and shoot your 380. I recently had the opportunity to take a small pistol/pocket pistol class at a local range. We engaged targets from long distance (maybe 50') to as close as 9'. I was very disappointed with my ability to draw and fire my pocket 380 at nine feet. (turning targets with a two second presentation as I recall) I will still carry my 380 but I plan on carrying my Shield more than I used to.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l ... tail&p=127

"This 380 Auto+P ammo will better all American made 380 Auto ammo by 150 fps to 200 fps in all bullet weights we make. This is a serious improvement in this typically anemic cartridge. This 380 auto+P ammo is more powerful than the typical 38SPL ammo made by most American ammo makers and you'll get 7 shots of it in a small/flat/light weight 380 versus 5 shots out of a bulkier 38 SPL J frame revolver. Additionally, with the 380 you'll get much faster reloads and the little magazines are flatter than a speed-loader used for a J frame."

The course I took

Center Target Sports - Defense with Pocket/Compact guns CTS-240

My Kahr P380 with the Buffalo Bore hardcast defensive ammo



  #95  
Old 01-02-2015, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATF View Post
Anyone thinking about buying a .380 I would ask "Why bother?"
Everyone should already have a 9mm and new 9mm mini pistols like the Sig P938 are just so small there is no reason I could think of to add another caliber to your collection. Keep it simple and maintain the power of a 9mm JHP.
Since you asked....

The Sig is a nice gun, and I really wanted to find a reason to buy one. Unfortunately, I found the Sig to be an oversized boat anchor for pocket carry compared to my Ruger LCP. I tried to justify pocket carrying the Sig at a pound empty and over an inch wide, but I've already got the best pocket gun at a pound and over an inch wide, S&W 642. I just couldn't find a niche for the Sig that other guns don't serve my needs better, particularly absent small safety controls to fumble with.

Back to calibers.... Adding calibers to my collection? Of course. Different calibers accommodate my different needs. I'm not interested in trying to accommodate a caliber. Only have one .380, that's all I need. Greg Ellifritz study, An Alternative Look at Handgun Stopping Power, helped confirm what I already believed.
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:27 AM
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Since you asked....

The Sig is a nice gun, and I really wanted to find a reason to buy one. Unfortunately, I found the Sig to be an oversized boat anchor for pocket carry compared to my Ruger LCP. I tried to justify pocket carrying the Sig at a pound empty and over an inch wide, but I've already got the best pocket gun at a pound and over an inch wide, S&W 642. I just couldn't find a niche for the Sig that other guns don't serve my needs better, particularly absent small safety controls to fumble with.

Back to calibers.... Adding calibers to my collection? Of course. Different calibers accommodate my different needs. I'm not interested in trying to accommodate a caliber. Only have one .380, that's all I need. Greg Ellifritz study, An Alternative Look at Handgun Stopping Power, helped confirm what I already believed.
Phil I'm 100% behind you on the Smith but I prefer the 60 with a hammer.
The real question is why didn't you for the LC9 the size difference is marginal and I agree with you about the Sig P938 too many safeties but I can live with it because it's such a great shooter.
  #97  
Old 01-02-2015, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12string View Post
Buffalo Bore 95 gr. hollow points are what my wife carries in her Sig P238

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVCsosglj8E
I load my PPK with a BB 95 Gr JHP in the pipe and 1 more as the first round in the mag. The rest of the mag is loaded with BB +P, 100 gr. Hard cast FN.

That gives me 2 very good hole makers and 5 penetrators should the first 2 not get the job done. Ballistics gel tests of these rounds are very impressive.

Bob

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  #98  
Old 01-02-2015, 04:47 PM
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Phil I'm 100% behind you on the Smith but I prefer the 60 with a hammer.
The real question is why didn't you for the LC9 the size difference is marginal and I agree with you about the Sig P938 too many safeties but I can live with it because it's such a great shooter.
The LC9 is another great gun. But like the Sig, it's just more gun than I want for pocket carry. An inch longer and taller, and about twice the weight of my LCP. In a DeSantis Nemesis, the LCP stays in the pocket from the time I get dressed till bedtime. I'm just not willing to trade ease of all-day pocket carry with the LCP for a different caliber other than my 642 which I carry maybe 10% of the time now. My safe is full of larger guns from 9mm to 45ACP that I don't/won't carry.

If there comes a time when my hands are not strong enough to 100% reliably shoot the small LCP then I'll never carry it again. Until then, I believe the .380 is adequate for self defense and I shoot it to my satisfaction.

7yds.

[/URL]

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Old 01-03-2015, 04:10 AM
stantheman86 stantheman86 is offline
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There once was a time when police carried .32 Long and .38 S&W revolvers and they were considered good enough......now 9mm is the "new .380" and .40 is the new 9mm etc. etc.

I believe it's more marketing and machismo than anything else, .38 Special was plenty good enough for 50+ years but now it's seen as inadequate.....someone explain to me why that is.....
  #100  
Old 01-03-2015, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by forrestinmathews View Post
Well I carry an NAA in .22 short. I don't feel undergunned at at all. I feel like I can make sufficient noise and I won't pause to wonder whether my assailant is rolling around laughing or has actually been injured by a bullet.
I used to have some .22 LR that had small shot in a plastic "bullet". Never fired them and they are long lost during a move. I had rifles then and though the shot shells would pretty much discourage someone. I sold the rifles after moving here and have settled on an SD9VE but often wonder whether those shot-filled .22's would actuate a pistol or whether they would deter someone.

Anyone have a thought or experience with the .22 shot shells?
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