If you saw a third-party situation going violent, would you intervene on one of the participants' behalf? Would you jump into a situation you don't understand, a situation that could be nowhere near what it looks to be? Are you looking to be a "hero"?

There are alot of people coming on this forum that are new to concealed carry, but even if you've been around CCW for a while, if you have never read this short piece here it is:

Commentary by Evan Marshall

Now I'm not talking about an "active shooter" scenario or a Muslim attack on a shopping mall; I'm talking about more mundane circumstances, like you see two people fighting over a kid, a fistfight, etc...

For me, I would stay back but within observation range, draw my S4 Galaxy, not my Shield...call 911 and let the cops handle it...how 'bout you?

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M&P's and K Frames Pleeze!

I think you've answered your own questions.

First of all call 911. Then ask if any help is wanted. If Domestic Violence is one of LE's biggest nightmares I don't want to jump in one myself. Then I'd worry its a cop taking down a bad guy. Then I'd worry that I'm stopping someone from getting a beating that they deserve.

Little old lady getting mugged? That's easy. Most assaults aren't so objective.

As you can see in this audio clip I remembered from the Johnboy and Billy Bigshow, Sometimes you don't need to intervene.......

Old Lady Attack Voicemail Sound Clip and Quote - Hark

Been there done that. Back in my younger years, before cell phones and concealed carry, I witnessed a man and woman arguing in the parking lot of the local grocery store.

When the guy slapped the woman and knocked her down, I yelled at him to lay off. The guy starts cursing at me, takes a swing and we’re in a fight. It didn’t go too far before a squad car pulled up. The woman who was being slapped around told the officer that I started the fight.

Sorry folks, but if you can’t take care of yourself don’t look to me for help.

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A gun has no brain.. use yours

If you are not LEO - stay out of it, call 911 and be a good witness. Don't ever confuse having a CCW with having LEO authority.

As an MP, I responded to a disturbance at the NCO club. Outside, a man was slapping a woman repeatedly. I ordered him away from the woman, only to have her fully support her man against me.

Tony, the brother of a girl I once dated, observed a woman being chased out of an apartment building in her underwear, a man in hot pursuit. He grabbed her and threw her to the ground. Tony intervened, only to have the woman tell him to mind his own business.

Sorry, ladies, if you're attracted to abusive men, expect to suffer the consequences. I'll call 911, serve as a witness but don't expect me to fight men a third of my age or use deadly force and likely throw my life away.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but it is the cold reality of the world we live in.

Well, I wouldn't make a habit of interfering in an altercation that wasn't mine, but....a long time ago, I did and it probably worked out for the best. I was driving down the street with my wife in the front seat and baby strapped down in the back when I noticed two people having an animated conversation on the sidewalk. I drove on by (family on board, right?) then looked in my rear view mirror to see the guy strike the woman who then spilled two bags of groceries on the ground. My automatic reaction was to hit the brakes, back up, get out and yell something to the effect of "Hey, what the heck are you doing?" That distracted things for a moment and before I knew it, the young lady jumped in the back seat of my car and locked the door So I floored it and zoomed out of harms way.

Only then did we notice that the young lady had an infant in her arms that turned out to be three days old! So, we got her story which there is no need to repeat here and I decided to drive her to the police station where she got out and went in the door. That's the end of the story. Maybe not the smartest thing to do with my own family in tow, but I couldn't help myself. I suppose it could have ended poorly, but I might do it again.

Edit: Just to clarify, I wasn't armed and this was well before cell phones. I advocate the 911 option these days.

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Some collect art; I shoot it!

Jumped between people with intent a couple of times, but I was not carrying. Worked out well both times. The gun never made it out of the pocket one of those times, though the hand went in. Never would sit well with me to watch a friend get shot. Pulling a gun is not ALWAYS the best answer, but be quick and mean what you say well enough to follow through. Not having a gun does not mean to sit and watch someone get gunned down, either.

We all know what we are capable of. Every situation is different and changes every second.

Had I called 911, my friend would have been shot.

No, no and no.

===================================

Respectfully, I would like to ask what authority Law Enforcement has to protect folks from violence that any ordinary civilian doesn't.

I have had a CCW for 9 years, and taken the class twice, with different instructors each time. Both instructors said within the first 5 minutes of the start, "having a CCW and a gun does not make you a cop. If you want to be a cop, take a different class".....

Unless it's me or mine on the wrong end of an assault, then my only role will be as a witness. I didn't bring anything into retirement but good memories, good friends and some good guns. I left the "authority" as well as the need and/or desire to get involved behind.

My commission is long lapsed into retirement, and so my authority / desire to get in the middle of something that does not directly impact me / mine.

I'll call 911, but that's it, when I don't have a mutual understanding with one of the parties involved.

You have to be very, very careful. The problem is there are few non direct situations that you can look at in a few seconds & actually know what you see. Two guys beating the snot out of one guy could be two victims that got the jump on their armed attacker. You just don't know. Ccw is to get me out of trouble, not deeper into it. Active shooter in your proximity, no LE, maybe. Armed robbery in a place you are in & they start moving or injuring people, maybe. Anyone willfully injury children & lives are at immediate risk, probably.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Not a matter of authority. LEO has training, insurance, body armor, and usually backup. They still don't like to get between fighters.

Even all my LEO friends are unanimous in saying that, if they are off-duty, they will NOT get involved even if they are carrying UNLESS they are within their own jurisdiction where responding officers will recognize them AND, more importantly, the situation is obvious and obviously life-threatening to a helpless victim; otherwise, call 911 and observe until the on-duty responders arrive. Way too high potential for misunderstandings otherwise.

Call 911.... maintain a safe distance!!!!!

My favorite aspect of this forum is sanity prevails. "What if" scenarios are quite popular on interweb gun forums. You'd be surprised, and maybe a little scared of the responses to this same question elsewhere on line.

Don't forget sovereign immunity and taxpayer funded legal counsel if he screws up

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Retired Career Security Guard

A little off topic but as a rookie cop I stepped between two individuals who were in a fist fight and got stabbed in the back for my troubles. I was not seriously hurt but I did learn a valuable lesson.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

DEFINITELY. NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED. CALL 911 AND LET THE COPS DO THEIR JOB. IF A MURDER IS UNFOLDING, BEFORE THE COPS ARRIVE, I WOULD STEP IN TO SAVE A LIFE. CALL 911 AGAIN TO ADVISE THE COPS OF ANY CHANGE IN THE SITUATION, AND CLEARLY DESCRIBE YOURSELF, SO YOU WON'T GET SHOT WHEN THEY SHOW UP. IF THEY TELL YOU TO DROP YOUR GUN, DROP THE DAAAMN THING ! ! !

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I would and I have and when the time comes there's really no conscious thought, it's instinct at least in my case.
One a corner I drive past every day I witnessed a shouting match between a motorist and crossing guard. Suddenly the motorist stopped in the middle of the intersection jumped out of his car and went after the little woman crossing guard. I was on my hands free phone with my wife at the time and without even thinking or saying anything to her, I was out of the car confronting the potential attacker. Fortunately for him he backed down.
I got back in the car and Ms Comrad was saying, what happened, I told her, I really didn't know but I knew instinctively I had to stop that guy.

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Back to back World War Champs.

Jest depends there, although the right to carry a firearm neither warrants,
nor carries any authority of arrest in misdemeanor assaults.....

Some times a man has to be a man, it's a moral obligation kinda thing to one another.

If'n I were to witnessed a woman or a child taking a beat down....
Or a law enforcement officer out numbered and or being over powered,

Hell yes, I'll stepping in, Leo or no Leo!


But, that just me talkin here....
Those of you that have met me in person, well y'all know me


.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

No one can decide for someone else what the "right" thing to do is in a situation like these.

Sometimes the "right" thing isn't necessarily the "smart" thing or even the "legal" thing. Sometimes, it is.

It's all in what we, individually, can live with.

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Ukraine -- now more than ever

It is highly dependent on the situation. Always call 911.
Intervene doesn't necessarily mean get in the middle.
Being an active witness can often disrupt what ever is happening plus give the LEO third party information.
I wouldn't run straight in but would be ready to if I felt it was necessary to save a life.

As a non LEO getting into the middle of a domestic dispute....... is really putting yourself at risk............everyone can turn on you.....call 911;keep a safe distance and keep an open line to 911.......

Similar event 20 years ago when I lived in Harrisburg...... I yelled to the couple that I'd called the police...... I was on the other side of a 12" barbed wired topped chain link fence! Cell phone in my left hand and my 640 tucked in my waistband. The guy bolted to his car and took off.

Now if he's beating her with a bat.........

Is this a serious question?

If it is, I was really lucky when intervening in myriad fistfights, barroom brawls, and assaults in my career...on and off duty. And even luckier when dealing with 'terroristic threats' and such.

By your reckoning I was without 'authority' to do so.

Be safe.

Right, wrong or indifferent,
we'll live with our decisions or in-decisions when it comes to matter of this kind....

Of course, I was raised in a time before folks could call for 911


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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

It sure DOES involve 'authority.' Professional LEO's absolutely do have authority to involve themselves in situations wherein assaultive behavior is ongoing...or even threatened, for that matter.

Be safe.

Best answer so far.

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Bob | KM4DEO
Sport | Glock 22

I'll never understand these sorts of questions.

If A then B. Would you....?

How about I just play it by ear and decide my actions in the moment?

We can find perfectly reasonable arguments for taking action as well as perfectly reasonable arguments for not taking action.

Here's reality; no situation will ever be so clearly defined that one could make a decision beforehand. Know going in that you have options, and make the best decision you can make with the info you have at the moment. I know going in that my first option will always be to call 911. After that I will or won't take action based on the circumstances present.

It's really not that hard.

I went to a bar with a friend one night. Upon leaving, my buddy walked out just ahead of me, and saw a guy slapping a girl around in the parking lot...with several people watching. He went over and grabbed the guy's arm to stop another slap...and as I walked out he was now in a fist fight with the guy. Cops showed up, and the girl said my buddy started it . Thankfully there were witnesses . I hate to say it , but some women aren't smart enough to realize when enough is enough. I wouldn't have done much more than call the cops in my buddy's place.

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1st smiles,lies.Last,gunfire.

35 years ago, my brother in law prevented me from intervening when we saw a guy beating a woman outside of a club we were leaving. The minute I turned to head that way he grabbed the back of my shirt collar and said - "stay out of that, if you stop him SHE'LL be on your back helping him!"
From that day since I have never even THOUGHT of intervening in such situations.

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Stay protected my friends.

This is ONE sitution in which I would render aid. Don't expect the officer would be trying to blame me for starting the incident afterwards.

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Stay protected my friends.

No. Not in today's environment and the litigious happy population out there. It is for DEFENSIVE purposes only. To protect me and mine. I will be a good witness and call 911.

^^^^^^ This enough said.

That's the best way, a lot of things are not what they appear to be.
Don't get yourself involved in something you'll be sorry for, it could cost you dearly.

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John

In one word, NO.

We're still on that.

While I can sort of understand an unequivocal yes, the unequivocal no seems much more wrong. If someone were pulling your daughter into a van, you’re OK with an armed citizen standing by and only phoning police? Likewise, would you stand idly by while such a thing was happening?

EDIT to add: Why do I sense the "everything looks like a nail, lemmie get my hammer" thing in this thread. There is a lot one can do that has nothing to do with a gun to intervene.

There are few black & white things in life, this thread included. Anyone saying there is no such scenario that would get them involved or not involved, just hasn't played the 10s of 1000s thru their head. It will always come down to what you know vs think you know. Show up with a gun at the wrong place & wrong time & someone will be going to jail or the hospital & you may be 100% wrong, even though your "instincts" said otherwise.
It's just not that simple, yes or no, more like maybe & maybe not. I used to think even the guy beating the snot out of a say a 12yr old kid or small woman is something to consider as automatic, but then they could just be defending themselves against armed attackers that weren't very good at the attempt. Prudence & caution should reign in any situation where you are not directly involved.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I do not even call 911. Let somebody else do it. I also do not have a cell phone.

I see so many 'I will protect only me and mine' replies (not just in this thread) and always ponder: What if everyone thought just like you? Sad, in my thinking.

And what if your 'mine' was not in the company of you?

Most importantly, not all problems are solved with a gun...nor a cell phone. Oh, or by a lawyer, either.

Be safe.

This thread comes up on almost every gun forum I have ever participated in and every time it does it always plays out the same way.

Everyone splits into two camps, each camp sees the issue as either all black or all white and one side decides the other is fools for risking themselves( on any level) for strangers and the other side decides the one is a bunch heartless monsters that have no love for their fellow man and probably club baby seals for fun.

The situation in front of me isn’t going to be the same as any of the situations that are listed in this thread. I’m going to have to make my own decision based on the circumstances that I face. I do know that if I end up calling the police the last thing I would want to do is announce that fact to the combatants.

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Retired Career Security Guard

I've said this before, but while I don't take much of what Evan Marshall says as gospel, he's makes a good point with that commentary. If he got himself into situations like that as a cop, what person in their right mind would want to do the same as a civilian who doesn't enjoy the same legal protections as the former?

I did a lot of things as a cop b/c it was my job, and I felt a strong sense of duty to protect those who could not protect themselves. I was younger and stronger then. My only duty now is to protect myself and those close to me from harm. Besides, I've witnessed women turn on the guy/cop who intervened to protect them when the abuser was suddenly on his way to jail.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

There seems to be arm chair heroes saying they'd dive in willing to intervene in anyway to anything...... and then those who say they would do absolutely nothing absolutely every time.

Put me in the category of "I really can't answer until I am forced to make such a decision in real life".

There are too many variables... Are there other people around? Are there witnesses to back me up? Is my wife with me? Would my actions put her in danger? Am I alone? How many nefarious individuals are there? etc etc...

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- The Federalist #46 -

Libertarian here so.....Nope, none of my business!

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17-2, 65-5, 442-2, 10-5

There is no one right answer to this question. Even a specific instance might have more than one correct answer and more than one incorrect answer. I've done things in my time that were probably illegal, but I felt were right for the circumstance. One reason we have courts and juries is because few things in life are cut and dry.

FWIW, I clearly remember a story my Dad told me. As a young man he was a professional boxer, with an impressive 46-2-1 record as a middleweight. Just a few years past his boxing days, when he was working as a union organizer (in the 1930's) he came upon a man smacking a much smaller woman around. Being the tough guy that he was, he intervened and literally knocked the man out with a single punch. But as the man went down he was stabbed in the back by the woman who was screaming "leave my husband alone!". While not seriously injured, he vowed that day to never intervene in a fight where his family was not involved and he did not know the details of what was going on. When he told me this story I was a young guy who felt he could be a hero and save the world, and he was advising me to be not so quick to get involved in other folks lives.