Rastoff's Challenge- Dropping the Gauntlet

Whitwabit · #**451** 01-02-2016, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

You can just print the attached target. It's a reasonable approximation of the center of a B27E.

Nice target .. But save your expensive ink ..duct tape is 2 inches wide .. cut a piece 3 inches long and place in the middle of a sheet of paper .. very cheap ..

V0OBWxZS16 · #**452** 01-09-2016, 06:01 PM

Here are my least bad attempts:
M&P9L CORE w/ RM07
M&P9 Shield
Browning Hi-Power

shakyshoot · #**453** 01-09-2016, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V0OBWxZS16

Here are my least bad attempts:
M&P9L CORE w/ RM07
M&P9 Shield
Browning Hi-Power

Not bad--I've tried 3 times now with my Shield and failed 3 times. Yesterday I blew it on the 3rd 10 yd shot.

Rastoff · #**454** 01-09-2016, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitwabit

Nice target .. But save your expensive ink ..duct tape is 2 inches wide .. cut a piece 3 inches long and place in the middle of a sheet of paper .. very cheap ..

Good suggestion. Just remember to round off the corners a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by V0OBWxZS16

Here are my least bad attempts:
M&P9L CORE w/ RM07
M&P9 Shield
Browning Hi-Power

Not just "not bad", those are quite good. Very few can shoot a Shield that well. I know I can't.

TazTJ · #**455** 01-12-2016, 05:19 PM

Went out to try some new 45 reloads. 230gr RN Extreme bullets over 4.6gr Titegroup. This is 20 shots from 10 yds with my Dan Wesson Guardian. Need to change the front sight, hits high with everything. 1.86" wide edge to edge, 2.177" tall edge to edge.

Rastoff · #**456** 01-14-2016, 09:45 PM

An outstanding group TazTJ. In fact, it's small enough to fit in the orange center of the B-27E...

Alas, the group is not centered on a spot I could see. It is about one inch high.

So, while this is a great group, not a patch winner.

TazTJ · #**457** 01-14-2016, 10:16 PM

Yeah, the Guardian hits around 1" to 1.5" high with almost every load I have tried; my VBOB was the same till I switched the front sight. My aim point is the middle of the X on the 5 spot archery target, so with the distance known and the amount of correction known, now I can order a new front sight! It was also 20 rds at 10 yds because the place I shot was muddy and I didn't want to chase the brass around, so it wouldn't have qualified anyway.

Its a fun challenge to try! One of these days I will get it!

Kronos · #**458** 01-15-2016, 10:16 AM

Looks fun,I'm not too very picky about accuracy in a combat pistol-example I fired my new to me SD9ve yesterday at...oooh about maybe fifteen or so feet and I could cover all seventeen shots with my hand.

When I get worried is when it looks like I used a shotgun on the target!

Rick_A · #**459** 01-15-2016, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitwabit

how does the Webley Tempest shoot ?? I get my RWS out every once in awhile ..

It's what I would call "field accurate." It is no match gun but I can consistently knock down a 1" steel plate at 10m which is good enough for me. Unfortunately it needs a rebuild as the performance has been dropping off steadily lately.

A couple examples in the spirit of the challenge.

My new RO Compact:
My other favorite handgun...-20151229_162105-jpg

My other favorite handgun...-20151229_162105-jpg

16 rounds at 5 yards and 16 at 7yds. These were the first shots from the gun. It's starting to settle in nicely.

20151229_163650(0) by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

My new M67 at 15 yards, 24 rounds in DA:
Model 67 goes to the range-20160104_145225-jpg

It's a bit of a cheater, but the focus is fundamentals, right?

20151116_084317 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

ETA:
9MM ammo was PMC 115gr FMJ
.38 SPL was Remington UMC 130gr

Rick_A · #**460** 01-15-2016, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TazTJ

Did this one a while back, reduced size target (11x18 IIRC?) all at 10 yds, indoor range with my SA 1911 that I rebuilt. 15 shots in the center, 15 shots in the head. Face was on purpose. The RO told me I had to shoot slower, so I did this target. He let me shoot faster after that

I gotta do some more targets with my other carry pistols and see how they do. Most of my EDC guns are DW 1911's, so it's kinda unfair

I have hit a 12" plate at 100 yds with my DW 9mm ECO and also at 200 yds with a 5" 1911 .22lr Nelson conversion, standing 2 hand hold

TazTJ · #**461** 01-15-2016, 03:56 PM

Yeah, tried to do the single line smiley, but it ended up more as an open mouth

I shot it with cheap UltraMax 185gr LSWC reloads several years ago. I need to do another one; this one lived on the fridge for several years and the dogs tails beat it up pretty good!

Protected One · #**462** 01-23-2016, 08:14 PM

I went to the range today with a friend who's a retired LAPD Detective and current Chief of Police for the University of Michigan. On a whim I had him shoot the challenge using my Browning High Power. Embarrassed me with my own gun!

When I pulled the target in I should have stopped it further away from the shelf so the picture would be better. But you get the idea. Shots were "cold", before we did anything else.

Rastoff · #**463** 01-24-2016, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protected One

I went to the range today with a friend who's a retired LAPD Detective and current Chief of Police for the University of Michigan.

Always nice to know that the police can shoot.

I didn't know universities had their own police force.

Protected One · #**464** 01-24-2016, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

Always nice to know that the police can shoot.

I didn't know universities had their own police force.

I don't know if ALL universities do, but he held the same position at Arizona State University (Commander) before coming home to Michigan.

shakyshoot · #**465** 01-26-2016, 05:29 PM

Okay, I cheated. I haven't passed the challenge in a while with any of my centerfire handguns, so I used my Volquartsen Scorpion. Got all 20 in a one hole 15/16" group. I seem to recall there was a special target for 22 target pistols somewhere earlier in the thread, but I can't find it. Not really an "entry" but I guess it's at least as relevant to the thread as some of the random targets at random distances that have been posted.

Rastoff · #**466** 01-27-2016, 01:39 AM

Even with a "cheater" gun, that's good shooting shakyshoot.

The special .22LR target was just a joke. I was having with a few guys who were posting targets shot with their pistols similar to yours. However, if you really want to go for it, I've attached the target. If you can keep all your shots in the orange with this target, you're my hero.

EDIT: For some reason the background of the file looks all black on my computer, it's not. Just download the PDF and print it. Those are some really small orange centers though.

shakyshoot · #**467** 02-02-2016, 04:35 PM

Finally made it with the Shield 9mm on the 4th day of trying. Barely squeezed in that 7yd shot at 2 O'clock, but using a bullet as a gauge, there's some white between the hole and the line. Just under 1 3/4" group. (the 10 ring is 3" x 2", not the X.)

Rastoff · #**468** 02-02-2016, 08:58 PM

Hey, barely in is in. Excellent shooting brother.

EdN · #**469** 02-06-2016, 05:13 PM

WOW....How long does it take to read all 10 pages of this thread? However long it takes! Worth it!!! I have targets to post, but not sure how to do it... (neither of them are winners, but they are morth than Min of Bad Guy...

M&P 9mm Shield and the other is an M&P 45...Both targets shot at 16 @ 7 yds (closest they allow at this range) and 4 @ 10 yds...

73
Semper Fi
Ed

Rastoff · #**470** 02-06-2016, 07:38 PM

Here's Ed's targets:

Not bad Ed.

Plain Old Dave · #**471** 02-06-2016, 07:47 PM

Well, I would take your challenge, but I reject the premise of needing DA for self defense. I can no more forget to ear a hammer back before I shoot than I could forget to breathe.

Rastoff · #**472** 02-06-2016, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plain Old Dave

Well, I would take your challenge, but I reject the premise of needing DA for self defense.

Using a revolver in DA is faster. That doesn't negate being able to use it in single action. Neither does it negate using a SA revolver for self-defense. I never implied that anyone would forget to cock the hammer.

Even so, I'm not changing the parameters of this challenge. The idea is to use a gun you'd use for self-defense (i.e. carry) and use it in the manner you would on the street. If you tell me that you will always use your revolver by cocking the hammer first for self-defense, I'll believe you. If that is your normal method, then it meets the premise of this challenge.

No matter how you do it, doing it is better than not. Doing it with the gun you would carry and in the manner that gun will be used, will help you be better should you ever need it for real.

Plain Old Dave · #**473** 02-06-2016, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

Using a revolver in DA is faster. That doesn't negate being able to use it in single action. Neither does it negate using a SA revolver for self-defense. I never implied that anyone would forget to cock the hammer.

Even so, I'm not changing the parameters of this challenge. The idea is to use a gun you'd use for self-defense (i.e. carry) and use it in the manner you would on the street. If you tell me that you will always use your revolver by cocking the hammer first for self-defense, I'll believe you. If that is your normal method, then it meets the premise of this challenge.

No matter how you do it, doing it is better than not. Doing it with the gun you would carry and in the manner that gun will be used, will help you be better should you ever need it for real.

I normally shoot ALL revolvers SA. Don't understand how you can hit the broad side of a barn DA, but that's neither here nor there. I will accept the challenge as soon as 1 it's warm out, and 2 I have 20 32-20 shells extra again.

Rastoff · #**474** 02-07-2016, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plain Old Dave

Don't understand how you can hit the broad side of a barn DA,...

Proper technique and practice. In case you missed it earlier, here is my attempt at the challenge with revolver; shot DA:

Not a perfect target, but I'm sure with work I could do it.

I've also earned Distinguished Graduate at Front Sight while using a revolver. All shots there were taken DA. It's really just a matter of knowing the proper technique, practice and trusting yourself. I'm sure you can do it too.

oldfart64 · #**475** 02-07-2016, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

I teach CCW (carry concealed weapon) classes. It is my goal in these classes to help people learn the law and to shoot better in defensive situations. The law in CA doesn't require a shooting component to get a CCW license. However, my local sheriff likes to see it included in the class. To qualify for the shooting portion, a student must shoot 20 shots. They must all be within the silhouette of a B-27E target like this one:

This target is enormous at 2' wide by 3' tall.

The course of fire is:

4 shots from 3 yards
6 shots from 5 yards
6 shots from 7 yards
4 shots from 10 yards

All shots are fired with the shooters choice of grip and stance and start from the ready position (gun loaded, but not in holster). They are all untimed so, there is no need to hurry.

The goal here is to see that the students can handle their guns safely and at least get their bullets to go in the general direction of the target. I thought this would be a very easy test. After instructing many students, I can see that this is more difficult than I thought.

Because I thought it was easy, I had never actually shot the full course. I'm a huge believer that an instructor doesn't need to be the best, but should at least be able to do what he's asking the students to do. So, today I shot the test. Here is my result:

Notice that all the shots are in the orange. There is actually a tiny bit of orange between the right line and the right most hole. So, none of my shots are even touching the line. (It was sunny, but the wind was blowing about 5-10MPH from my back.)

So, I challenge everyone here to run the same course of fire. There is a lot of talk about, "I shoot well enough to defend myself." OK, I'm calling you out. Run this course of fire and post your pics here. Can you keep all 20 shots in the orange? I don't think you can! That's right, I said it, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Here are the rules:

Any target may be used. To say you did as well as I did, all your shots must be within a 2"x3" oval. That's the size of the B-27E bullseye. So, either use a B-27E (regular B-27 would be fine) or provide proof of the size of your group.
The gun must be a gun used for self/home-defense.
The gun must be used in the same fashion it would be used for defense. So, if it is a DA/SA, the first shot at each yardage must be shot DA first and then SA for the rest. If it's a revolver it must be shot DA for every shot.
The course of fire is as above.
All shots are untimed.

This is done on your honor. If you say you did it, I'll believe you, but you must post a picture of your target. Let's keep this in the spirit of the forum. While I'm sure you can use this gun to defend yourself...

...it doesn't fit the spirit of the competition.

I used this one:

Well there it is.

I know you can't beat me, but can you even come close? PROVE IT!!! (There might be a prize involved.

)

I have a dead stock (for now, I am awaiting an apex sear) shield. I will give it a fair and honest trial. I will not be shooting before I install the sear.

blackhorse2010 · #**476** 02-18-2016, 05:50 PM

Between work and starting my Graduate degree, I was finally able to get back out.
Shot cold with my Kimber Pro Carry II, Federal 230gr aluminum case.

Ole Joe Clark · #**477** 02-18-2016, 08:30 PM

Blackhorse, I might could do that good, but I would have the hide the powder burns from 12" away. Great shooting.

Rastoff · #**478** 02-19-2016, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhorse2010

Between work and starting my Graduate degree, I was finally able to get back out.
Shot cold with my Kimber Pro Carry II, Federal 230gr aluminum case.

Outstanding!

Hmmm, maybe this is too easy? Or could it be that y'all are getting better? I'll take the second one.

blackhorse2010 · #**479** 02-19-2016, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

Outstanding!

Hmmm, maybe this is too easy? Or could it be that y'all are getting better? I'll take the second one.

Definitely not too easy. I could feel the stress level rising with each shot.
There were two RSO's watching and one of them guffawed when I explained the challenge to him.
I gave him a target and he tried it and put two into the orange and the rest were in a 6" or so group.
As he was bringing his target in he replied "damn, I've never been so humbled".

prplbkrr · #**480** 02-19-2016, 11:44 PM

No, it is not too easy. I have over 500 (five hundred) rounds fired at this target and haven't cleaned it yet. I have come close.

Been a little cold around here lately and haven't tried in a month.

Maybe when the snow melts off so I can find my brass.

Rastoff · #**481** 02-21-2016, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhorse2010

Definitely not too easy. I could feel the stress level rising with each shot.

Yes, I agree. I really do believe that a bunch of you guys are getting better. I love to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackhorse2010

There were two RSO's watching and one of them guffawed when I explained the challenge to him.
I gave him a target and he tried it and put two into the orange and the rest were in a 6" or so group.
As he was bringing his target in he replied "damn, I've never been so humbled".

This is what I see most often. A lot of people have stated that this is too easy and not worth their time. Anyone that's tried it knows better. I too keep some targets with me and offer them up. So far only one person has tried and didn't succeed.

There are a lot of claims on the internet. I hear this all the time, "I usually shoot 2" groups at 25 yards with my brand X gun. Therefore, this new gun is **** because it won't do that." I never see this kind of shooting at the range.

If you can shoot 2" groups at 25 yards, there's a lot of money to be made in the shooting sports. Alas, these are almost always just internet bravado.

shakyshoot · #**482** 02-21-2016, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

If you can shoot 2" groups at 25 yards, there's a lot of money to be made in the shooting sports. Alas, these are almost always just internet bravado.

Okay, here's a legit 25 yd offhand 1 1/2" group I shot with my Ruger 22/45. When will the money start rolling in? lol

Rastoff · #**483** 02-21-2016, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakyshoot

Okay, here's a legit 25 yd offhand 1 1/2" group I shot with my Ruger 22/45. When will the money start rolling in? lol

When you do that consistently, join the Olympic team and get sponsors. Seriously, if you can do that consistently, there are people who will pay for you to do it.

Nice shooting.

shakyshoot · #**484** 02-21-2016, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

When you do that consistently, join the Olympic team and get sponsors. Seriously, if you can do that consistently, there are people who will pay for you to do it.

Nice shooting.

Thanks--No, I can't do it consistently. That was a 99 on a target that's actually slightly harder than than NRA 25 yd slow fire target. If I can get 90's I'm happy. I did hit a 96 on a 25 yd NRA target last time out. But then I'm shooting 2 handed, and all the "real" bullseye competitions are one handed.

Targets Guy · #**485** 02-21-2016, 10:36 PM

SW22, 10 yards

30 rounds

< 1 minute

Rastoff · #**486** 02-21-2016, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Targets Guy

SW22, 10 yards

30 rounds

< 1 minute

Great! Now do it with a defensive gun and at the yardages in the OP. I'd love to see how you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakyshoot

But then I'm shooting 2 handed, and all the "real" bullseye competitions are one handed.

Two hands or one, if you apply the fundamentals you can shoot like this. The only advantage to two hand shooting is under time pressure for recoil control.

Bob O · #**487** 02-23-2016, 10:31 AM

I will try this challenge again this Spring with a couple of Glocks.

V0OBWxZS16 · #**488** 02-25-2016, 12:01 AM

I tried it twice today. The second one was OK. My brother needs some practice.

M&P9 Shield for all three.

Bob O · #**489** 02-25-2016, 09:57 AM

Nice V0!!

Plain Old Dave · #**490** 02-27-2016, 05:31 PM

uploadfromtaptalk1456608042649.jpg

1919 vintage .32 I frame. Remarkably pleasant to shoot, and I have a bad habit of shooting high with pistols, but every one of those is at least plausibly a fight ender.

Not bad for shooting a gun I just got a week ago for the first time. Put a cylinderful in the head as a function check/sighter first, and 4 of them were in one hole.

uploadfromtaptalk1456608106869.jpg

shotgun693 · #**491** 02-27-2016, 05:57 PM

I qualified about a month ago. As close as 3 yards as far out as 15. I shot a 100% with nothing outside the 9 ring, only 2 outside the 10. They keep the target.

Ole Joe Clark · #**492** 02-28-2016, 10:33 AM

It's not that your word is not good as gold, but if there are no photos, it didn't happen. :-)

Rastoff · #**493** 02-28-2016, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun693

I qualified about a month ago. As close as 3 yards as far out as 15. I shot a 100% with nothing outside the 9 ring, only 2 outside the 10. They keep the target.

OK, but have you tried this challenge?

shakyshoot · #**494** 03-01-2016, 05:53 PM

I succeeded again with the GP100 today, with 38 Special ammo. Third time I've made it with this gun. I didn't really shoot it double action that much til I started doing this challenge, but now I'm getting the hang of it.

raljr1 · #**495** 03-01-2016, 08:46 PM

I tried this the other day with my model 39 and my 3913, both new to me and first time shooting them.....our range only has a target stand at 30 feet, so all shots were at that range...I have some work to do...at least half a dozen shots were outside this target area...but as Arnold said, "I'll be back."

Rastoff · #**496** 03-01-2016, 10:01 PM

Just a note:

The "official" target can be down loaded from post #358.

(The plaque has already been given out.)

Plain Old Dave · #**497** 03-03-2016, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastoff

Just a note:

The "official" target can be down loaded from post #358.

(The plaque has already been given out.)

Is there an honorable mention? I haven't seen many long-action Hand Ejectors, especially with the early almost impossible to pick up sights....

mcjc21 · #**498** 03-28-2016, 12:45 PM

Between actually getting to the range and setting up my photobucket account to be able to post pictures I'm very late to the party.
Obviously I need more practice. Which is why this challenge is great!
Hope I did this right.
Did this with a SD9VE.

Rastoff · #**499** 03-28-2016, 11:28 PM

Did you post a pic? I don't see it. If you need help you can email the pic to me and I'll post it for you.

mcjc21 · #**500** 03-29-2016, 02:11 PM

How's this?