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  #551  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:59 AM
shakyshoot shakyshoot is offline
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Nicely done again.

Of course I have to ask, is that a gun you'll carry?
I'll probably carry it some. That's why I've bothered to test it out with hollow points. I've shot 40 rds of HST and a little over 300 rds of ball so far. I don't think it's going to replace my 9mm Shield as EDC any time soon. I'm heavily eyeing the 45 ACP Shield.
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  #552  
Old 08-13-2016, 03:27 PM
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Default Shot the Challenge again today

I shot the challenge again today, once again using my Hi-Power.

Determined conclusively that my vision at 10 yards won't allow me to make the shots I need for this challenge
Still...not too bad for an old guy.

Also, finally found a Galco Summer Comfort holster for IWB. Now it can get some carry duty!
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  #553  
Old 08-13-2016, 03:37 PM
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Determined conclusively that my vision at 10 yards won't allow me to make the shots I need for this challenge
Still...not too bad for an old guy.
I'd take that..challenge or not ......your pic disappeared

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  #554  
Old 08-13-2016, 03:42 PM
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I'd take that..challenge or not ......your pic disappeared
That was me...trying to get the rotation correct.
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  #555  
Old 08-14-2016, 11:30 AM
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Determined conclusively that my vision at 10 yards won't allow me to make the shots I need for this challenge
I hear you. As time goes by this only gets more difficult. I did it again the other day and had a target that looked similar to yours.

That's why it's a challenge. It's not easy, but drives us to work on our shooting skills.

I've heard a lot of people say that this is a waste of time, that speed shooting is what's necessary for self-defense shooting. I beg to differ. There is a balance between accuracy and speed. Be fast and accurate. How fast and how accurate is dependent on the situation. Take this for example:


If that were my wife or daughter, actually I don't care what her relationship is to me, I want to be very accurate with this shot.

Edit: I updated the pic with an outline of where you'd have to shoot to guarantee he'll no longer be a threat.
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  #556  
Old 08-14-2016, 03:42 PM
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I hear you. As time goes by this only gets more difficult. I did it again the other day and had a target that looked similar to yours.

That's why it's a challenge. It's not easy, but drives us to work on our shooting skills.

I've heard a lot of people say that this is a waste of time, that speed shooting is what's necessary for self-defense shooting. I beg to differ. There is a balance between accuracy and speed. Be fast and accurate. How fast and how accurate is dependent on the situation. Take this for example:


If that were my wife or daughter, actually I don't care what her relationship is to me, I want to be very accurate with this shot.

Edit: I updated the pic with an outline of where you'd have to shoot to guarantee he'll no longer be a threat.
I agree. What good is "speed" if you can't put the shot(s) where it needs to be?

Inside 30' I'm pretty confident that I could put rounds inside the area you encircled - as long as the shot isn't too rushed, and my aim would be for the left eye socket (because it's more sincere).

That target is similar to the situation at the end of the movie TAKEN, where Brian Mills daughter is being held at knifepoint by a Sheik. At that distance I could make the shot all day long.
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  #557  
Old 08-14-2016, 04:20 PM
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I was actually faced w/a situation very similar to post #559 as a patrol sergeant back in the early '80s. I shot the bad guy w/my issued Model 15 and saved the life of the hostage.
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  #558  
Old 08-14-2016, 04:53 PM
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I was actually faced w/a situation very similae to post #559 as a patrol sergeant back in the early '80s. I shot the bad guy w/my issued Model 15 and saved the life of the hostage.
Great job! What was your distance from the bad guy?
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  #559  
Old 08-14-2016, 06:23 PM
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In answer to the question in post #561, I was standing about two to three arm's lengths away from him.
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  #560  
Old 08-14-2016, 06:49 PM
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Inside 30' I'm pretty confident that I could put rounds inside the area you encircled - as long as the shot isn't too rushed, and my aim would be for the left eye socket (because it's more sincere).
I gotta say I would aim a little further to the left. If I were aiming at the left eye socket and pull that shot low...
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  #561  
Old 08-14-2016, 07:03 PM
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I gotta say I would aim a little further to the left. If I were aiming at the left eye socket and pull that shot low...
I doubt you'd pull it, considering the 10 yd shots you made. This would most likely be within 10'.
Even if you pulled it there's ~2" of hair poofed up there, so you would have to REALLY pull it to hit her.
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  #562  
Old 09-06-2016, 04:27 PM
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I'm continuing my quest to "break the inch" on group size. Very close to it today. I measure my group at 1 1/16" without that one in the corner. That was the 3rd 10 yd shot, and spread the group to 1 5/16". Yes, I've committed heresy by putting a Fastfire III on my Range Officer.

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Old 09-06-2016, 09:28 PM
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Shakyshoot,
You have demonstrated your prowess with this challenge several times. Without a doubt you're in the top two if not the top.

Now, you need to advance to the next level; time. You've shown that you can shoot well when you have all the time necessary. Now, add time pressure.

Try this:
Starting from the ready, shoot 5 controlled pairs at 5 yards and 5 controlled pairs at 7 yards.
At 5 yards set your PAR time to 2 seconds.
At 7 yards set your PAR time to 2.3 seconds.
To succeed, each pair must be within the 10 ring on my original target.

Well? Do you accept?

I just made this up on the spot as I sit here marveling at your target. I will shoot this on Saturday and post my result.
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:36 PM
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I'm continuing my quest to "break the inch" on group size. Very close to it today. I measure my group at 1 1/16" without that one in the corner. That was the 3rd 10 yd shot, and spread the group to 1 5/16". Yes, I've committed heresy by putting a Fastfire III on my Range Officer.

I'M CALLING "FOUL"!!!
Nice shoot'n
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:39 PM
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Shakyshoot,
You have demonstrated your prowess with this challenge several times. Without a doubt you're in the top two if not the top.

Now, you need to advance to the next level; time. You've shown that you can shoot well when you have all the time necessary. Now, add time pressure.

Try this:
Starting from the ready, shoot 5 controlled pairs at 5 yards and 5 controlled pairs at 7 yards.
At 5 yards set your PAR time to 2 seconds.
At 7 yards set your PAR time to 2.3 seconds.
To succeed, each pair must be within the 10 ring on my original target.

Well? Do you accept?

I just made this up on the spot as I sit here marveling at your target. I will shoot this on Saturday and post my result.
10 rounds inside the 10 ring in 2 seconds??? I can't wait to see THAT target!
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:49 PM
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Now, you need to advance to the next level; time. You've shown that you can shoot well when you have all the time necessary. Now, add time pressure.

Try this:
Starting from the ready, shoot 5 controlled pairs at 5 yards and 5 controlled pairs at 7 yards.
At 5 yards set your PAR time to 2 seconds.
At 7 yards set your PAR time to 2.3 seconds.
To succeed, each pair must be within the 10 ring on my original target.

Well? Do you accept?
Sure, I'll try it. I believe I can do it, because I have done some quick shooting at that target at 7 yards. When you say ready, that's low ready? And 2 seconds to shoot the pair right? (not 2 seconds between shots) Do I have to do this cold, or can I do the original challenge cold then this one? I don't want to give up my "break the inch" quest.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:15 PM
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Smh...I think I need to switch to a slingshot. Shaky, you sure make my shootin' look pretty dismal. Nice going, and good luck.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:16 PM
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10 rounds inside the 10 ring in 2 seconds??? I can't wait to see THAT target!
Hahaha, yeah, me too! No, 2 seconds for each pair.

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Sure, I'll try it. I believe I can do it, because I have done some quick shooting at that target at 7 yards. When you say ready, that's low ready? And 2 seconds to shoot the pair right? (not 2 seconds between shots) Do I have to do this cold, or can I do the original challenge cold then this one? I don't want to give up my "break the inch" quest.
Based on the original concept, it should be shot cold. However, to preserve your quest, shoot the original first. I'd like to see you break 1" too.

Just to be clear, this is the goal:
All pairs start from the low ready. This is with both hands on the gun and your arms at approximately 45deg to the ground.

From 5 yards fire 5 controlled pairs: 2 second PAR for each pair.
From 7 yards fire 5 controlled pairs: 2.3 seconds PAR for each pair.

To succeed all shots must land within the 10 ring of a standard B27 target.



For those that aren't familiar with a test like this, it's harder than it seems. From the ready, 2 seconds for a controlled pair is a long time. However, adding the accuracy component really steps this up a notch. Normally I only require a fist sized distance for the pair for myself. That's larger than the 10 ring with my fist.

When I do a similar drill, I start from concealment. I use 1.9 seconds from 5 and 2.1 from 7. I don't always succeed on time, but I'm usually on target. This should be quite the challenge.
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Old 09-11-2016, 12:54 PM
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OK, here is my first target from the new challenge:


As you can see, it is not a passing target. I dropped the first shot of the last pair at 7 yards. I'll get it next time.

For the record, this was shot cold; first 20 shots of the day.

Here is my partner in crime demonstrating the set up:


He was demonstrating what it looked like while pointed in. He did start from the low ready; about 45° to the ground. I won't post his target. Suffice it to say, he has an issue with pushing shots to the left. Still good shooting, but he was in the 9 ring with about 25% of his shots.
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Old 09-15-2016, 02:10 PM
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Well I decided to give the new M&P 45c a try. Don't even have 100 rounds thru it yet, but thought I'd see how I'd do.
The 2 shots low are the 1st and 4th rounds from 10 yds. Have no idea why they went there, but pretty sure it was my fault. I'll give it try again after I have a few hundred round thru the gun, I do know I LIKE the 45 in the M&P and hope to have a full size some time in the distant future.

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Old 09-21-2016, 10:28 PM
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Here's my contribution. SD9VE, which is my carry gun and my 1st and only handgun. Had it for about 7 months. Shooting at an 8" round target with Federal 115gr aluminum case fmj. Some of your pics are pretty intimidating to a newb like me, but here it is.
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Old 09-22-2016, 12:03 AM
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Okie21,
Don't be intimidated, be encouraged. Your target is pretty good. Especially with an SD9VE. Those have a huge amount of creep and that can affect the shot quite a bit.

You're grouping slightly low and to the left. This is very common among right hand shooters. One thing to try to counter this issue is to put your trigger finger a little further into the trigger. If you're using the middle of the pad of the first finger, try moving it a little more toward the knuckle.

Also, try concentrating on pressing the trigger straight back. This will help minimize movement of the gun as you press the trigger.
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Old 10-04-2016, 03:15 PM
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Okay, I believe I've succeeded in my "break the inch" quest. I make this right at 1 7/16" at the two widest edges of the grease rings that equals 1.4375. subtracting .451= .9865" No calipers or anything, just a good steel rule. I tried finding that post about the group measuring program, which I never did get around to trying. Couldn't find it.



Still failing miserably at the "speed" version of the challenge, but i'll keep trying.
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Old 10-04-2016, 05:59 PM
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I've heard a lot of people say that this is a waste of time, that speed shooting is what's necessary for self-defense shooting. I beg to differ. There is a balance between accuracy and speed. Be fast and accurate. How fast and how accurate is dependent on the situation. Take this for example:


If that were my wife or daughter, actually I don't care what her relationship is to me, I want to be very accurate with this shot.

Edit: I updated the pic with an outline of where you'd have to shoot to guarantee he'll no longer be a threat.
Shouldn't the majority of training time be allocated for preparing for the most likely scenarios? Do you honestly think pistol sniping a knife wielding bad guy holding a hostage is a probable defense scenario for a civilian? I imagine it has actually happened before, but the odds are so astronomically low to justify devoting any substantial amount of training time to such skills.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:58 PM
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Shouldn't the majority of training time be allocated for preparing for the most likely scenarios? Do you honestly think pistol sniping a knife wielding bad guy holding a hostage is a probable defense scenario for a civilian? I imagine it has actually happened before, but the odds are so astronomically low to justify devoting any substantial amount of training time to such skills.
The odds of being in ANY self defense shooting situation are pretty low, so why bother to train at all? If you think you just might be in a self defense shooting situation. why pretend you can guess what the particulars will be? If you can't shoot a gun accurately, all the speed in the world won't help you. If you feel this type of shooting is a waste of time, don't do it.
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Old 10-04-2016, 11:36 PM
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Shouldn't the majority of training time be allocated for preparing for the most likely scenarios?
I do have that old time notion that all training is valuable if you apply yourself.

In the end, shakyshoot said it best...
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If you feel this type of shooting is a waste of time, don't do it.
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Old 10-04-2016, 11:40 PM
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The odds of being in ANY self defense shooting situation are pretty low, so why bother to train at all? If you think you just might be in a self defense shooting situation. why pretend you can guess what the particulars will be? If you can't shoot a gun accurately, all the speed in the world won't help you. If you feel this type of shooting is a waste of time, don't do it.
I can look at stats, documented incidents and use common sense to get a pretty solid idea of what the most likely scenarios a civilian would encounter.

Responsible instructors should guide those interested in realistic self-defense in the right direction on how to train properly for the most probable encountered situations. If additional training for unusually rare instances is desired, that's fine, but just as long as it's understood that things like having to engage terrorists or be forced to take a head shot in a hostage situation is just really not very plausible. And being able to accurately shoot a handgun in a static range sense is simply not all that applicable to civilian self-defense. People want to think it is, but it simply isn't. Stand and deliver is usually limited to extremely unlikely proactive or intervention type scenarios. In purely self-based reactive situations(and setting aside necessary integrated skills) understanding how and being able to bring the weapon into play effectively while using movement against close-quarter attacks and putting rounds on target quickly is what's needed to be effective. Train how you see fit, I just don't like seeing people misguided.

If this thread was simply about shooting for sport, target or just for fun, that's one thing, but the OP states it's about being a better defensive shooter. As such, it then becomes perfectly acceptable to question the practical relevance of the activity. Meaningless increments of precision — and why you should avoid them - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

Do you want to be a better shooter or a better defender? - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

..

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Old 10-05-2016, 11:57 AM
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the truth is, no one is willing to do the best training for self defense.
if they were, they would all learn point shooting.
getting an accurate shot off at ranges to 10 yards takes a small fraction of a second.
but, this takes lots of work n lots of time n money, so people can't be bothered.
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:23 PM
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I only had to qualify once every 3 years in the USAF. Of course, that was with an M16.

I have only been a pistol owner for about 8 years, since I retired. I'm still a novice. I'm fortunate that I have some very patient range officers. I finally have started to improve my grip for two-handed shooting. Maybe, one I get that down, I'll learn some tricks shooting one-handed and left handed.

Regardless, I'm grateful for this forum and this particular thread to provide incentive.
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Old 10-05-2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by susieqz View Post
the truth is, no one is willing to do the best training for self defense.
So.... between guessing at what a shooting situation will be like based on statistics, and the vastly superior method of point shooting, I may as well just get a 3 round pistol with no sights.

I won't say that this type of discussion has no merit, just that this particular thread is not the place for it. For better or worse, THIS thread is about one particular skill--slow fire shooting from a standing position. Post up a target or move on.
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:00 PM
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the truth is, no one is willing to do the best training for self defense.
if they were, they would all learn point shooting.
With all due respect to your skill with point shooting, I'm not sure I agree this is necessary. There is no reason not to use sights when the distance exceeds 5 yards. Closer in, the flash sight picture or even point shooting, to include shooting from the hip, may be necessary.

Some will say that point shooting is necessary because a person can close the distance from 10 yards very quickly. That's true, but by the time you bring the gun to bear, they aren't 10 yards anymore, are they? If they are at 10 yards, you have more time to use your sights and be sure.

I'm not saying point shooting has no value. Just that the range where it is most valuable is not greater than 5 yards. Further, even with thousands of rounds of practice, most people won't be as precise as you are when point shooting. That's just the way it is.


While all this is interesting to me and many others, shakyshoot is correct, this thread is about precision shooting. If you want to participate, please join us and post your results.
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Old 10-06-2016, 11:00 PM
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I just found this thread, I was at the range testing some new powder for my reloading of 9 MM and 45 ACP. I was shooting from roughly 25-30 ft. using a standard police target. My shooting was fair compared to some who shot and showed their target I was shooting to check for flash, recoil and load. both loads showed they are worth using. Accuracy will was good but I wasn't really trying to for it. I was shooting 1911's a full size in 45ACP. 9MM. and A commander size in 9mm and a compact in 45ACP. So I am going give your test a try.

One of my training modes is standing, draw, fire 3 rounds into the center of standard police target at 25 ft.
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:05 PM
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Very nice shooting Klyde. I look forward to seeing your post with the challenge target. I'm pretty sure you can do it.
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Old 10-07-2016, 07:10 PM
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I passed the challenge with my 45 Shield this morning. I used all of the right side of the 2 x 3" on one of the 7 yarders, but snuck it in as part of a 1 3/4" group. This despite the fact that the guy next to me seemed to spend as much time picking up brass from MY LANE as he did shooting. He was shooting a 38 super, and treated the brass like gold nuggets. Really liking the 45 Shield so far. Only 165 rounds through, but no malfunctions yet.

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Old 10-11-2016, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
Okie21,
Don't be intimidated, be encouraged. Your target is pretty good. Especially with an SD9VE. Those have a huge amount of creep and that can affect the shot quite a bit.

You're grouping slightly low and to the left. This is very common among right hand shooters. One thing to try to counter this issue is to put your trigger finger a little further into the trigger. If you're using the middle of the pad of the first finger, try moving it a little more toward the knuckle.

Also, try concentrating on pressing the trigger straight back. This will help minimize movement of the gun as you press the trigger.
Took your advice about my trigger finger. I'm more centered, but still same group size, about 4.5" if you take out that one low shot
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Old 10-11-2016, 03:48 PM
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I teach CCW (carry concealed weapon) classes. It is my goal in these classes to help people learn the law and to shoot better in defensive situations. The law in CA doesn't require a shooting component to get a CCW license. However, my local sheriff likes to see it included in the class. To qualify for the shooting portion, a student must shoot 20 shots. They must all be within the silhouette of a B-27E target like this one:

This target is enormous at 2' wide by 3' tall.

The course of fire is:
  • 4 shots from 3 yards
  • 6 shots from 5 yards
  • 6 shots from 7 yards
  • 4 shots from 10 yards
All shots are fired with the shooters choice of grip and stance and start from the ready position (gun loaded, but not in holster). They are all untimed so, there is no need to hurry.

The goal here is to see that the students can handle their guns safely and at least get their bullets to go in the general direction of the target. I thought this would be a very easy test. After instructing many students, I can see that this is more difficult than I thought.

Because I thought it was easy, I had never actually shot the full course. I'm a huge believer that an instructor doesn't need to be the best, but should at least be able to do what he's asking the students to do. So, today I shot the test. Here is my result:

Notice that all the shots are in the orange. There is actually a tiny bit of orange between the right line and the right most hole. So, none of my shots are even touching the line. (It was sunny, but the wind was blowing about 5-10MPH from my back.)

So, I challenge everyone here to run the same course of fire. There is a lot of talk about, "I shoot well enough to defend myself." OK, I'm calling you out. Run this course of fire and post your pics here. Can you keep all 20 shots in the orange? I don't think you can! That's right, I said it, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Here are the rules:
  • Any target may be used. To say you did as well as I did, all your shots must be within a 2"x3" oval. That's the size of the B-27E bullseye. So, either use a B-27E (regular B-27 would be fine) or provide proof of the size of your group.
  • The gun must be a gun used for self/home-defense.
  • The gun must be used in the same fashion it would be used for defense. So, if it is a DA/SA, the first shot at each yardage must be shot DA first and then SA for the rest. If it's a revolver it must be shot DA for every shot.
  • The course of fire is as above.
  • All shots are untimed.

This is done on your honor. If you say you did it, I'll believe you, but you must post a picture of your target. Let's keep this in the spirit of the forum. While I'm sure you can use this gun to defend yourself...

...it doesn't fit the spirit of the competition.

I used this one:


Well there it is.

I know you can't beat me, but can you even come close? PROVE IT!!! (There might be a prize involved. )

Nice shooting, sir.
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:55 AM
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I had my buddy Mike shoot this challenge two weeks ago. I watched as he dropped one shot at 7 yds. :-(

I cut the center out of the official target and laid it over the target we used. All were nicely in the orange except for one! He'll try it again next time out.

I'll also give it a go with my two new pistols. :-)



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Old 10-21-2016, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Okie21 View Post
Took your advice about my trigger finger. I'm more centered, but still same group size, about 4.5" if you take out that one low shot
Yes, that is nicely centered. I highly recommend dry practice at home. concentrate on pressing the trigger straight back.

The S&W SD series of pistols are especially hard to shoot tight groups with. They are fully capable, but the trigger has lots of creep.

One exercise to try is to work on simply holding the gun still. Hold the gun at the ready position. Now, without looking a the sights, press the trigger. Did the gun move? If it did, keep working on it until it doesn't.

Once you can keep the gun absolutely still while pressing the trigger, then add the sights.

Ultimately, shooting is about keeping the gun from moving while pressing the trigger. When you go back to live fire, your groups should be smaller. Don't worry about the accuracy just yet. All you're concerned about at this point is consistency. Once you're consistent, indicated by a tighter group, then we can work on accuracy, i.e. hitting the X.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
I hear this all the time. Guys on the internet say, "I normally shoot 2" groups at 25 yards" or "I can shoot 3" groups at 50 yards with my super special wonder gun" yet I never see it.

I spend a lot of time at the range. I see a lot of targets. It's a rare day that I see a group smaller than 10" at 7 yards, let alone 50.
WOW! Really?
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Old 10-24-2016, 11:06 AM
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Okay, here's a legit 25 yd offhand 1 1/2" group I shot with my Ruger 22/45. When will the money start rolling in? lol
Lets see a strong hand target. It should be at least "somewhat better".
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:05 PM
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WOW! Really?
Yes, really. Remember, the 9 ring on a standard B-27 is only 8" wide. The 8 ring is 12" and I usually see shots in the 8 and 7 rings. Many are even in the white.

Tell me you don't see targets like this regularly:


Almost universally, the same people who shoot the 10" groups at 7 yards cut those groups in half with 10 minutes of real instruction. A couple of days of instruction and practice and they're shooting controlled pairs, under 2.4 seconds, in groups smaller than a fist.

The problem is most guys think they are great shots and were just having an off day. They generally shun any kind of instruction.

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Lets see a strong hand target. It should be at least "somewhat better".
The term "off hand" is target shooting speak for standing, unsupported. So, he was using his "strong" hand.
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Old 10-24-2016, 10:05 PM
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Half of the police officers I worked with over 25 years had targets like that.

Thanks to you Rastoff, I will no longer use the term "double tap" when describing any manner of my own shooting. Controlled pair is a better description when accuracy counts. Anyone can perform a double tap simply by pulling the trigger twice really fast. A controlled pair is something entirely different.

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Old 12-16-2016, 06:13 PM
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Make it with my PPQ-45. I've tried about 6 times and always seem to get 19 of 20. Got all 20 in today, and all by a good margin except that one on the left, which makes it by about 1/16". That was the 3rd 10 yd shot. I had to bring the target in and look at it before taking the 20th shot. About a 1 3/4" group. I've made it with 6 different guns now, not counting my target .22's. The PPQ-45 has taken it's place as my nightstand gun now that it has 700 rds with no malfunctions.


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Old 12-17-2016, 10:50 AM
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Way to go Deadeye, I mean Shakyshot!

Have a blessed day,

Leon
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Old 12-24-2016, 07:00 PM
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Made it with my latest acquisition: The Ruger Security Six I bought on impulse at my range. This gun has such a great single action trigger I almost don't want to shoot it double action. But this was all DA and shot cold as per the "rules." Mild 38 Specials for this target, but the gun is very comfortable with full power .357's.

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Old 12-24-2016, 08:57 PM
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10 shots. 10 yds. The orange dot is 3" in diameter.


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Old 12-25-2016, 03:21 PM
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10 shots. 10 yds. The orange dot is 3" in diameter.
Very good shooting. Now try it in the order defined in the OP.
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Old 12-28-2016, 02:40 PM
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Well, I finally made it out to the range today to take the challenge. I decided to take the challenge with a model 19 snub-nose that I picked up. To make it interesting, I did the challenge cold including the first time having shot the 19 so it made it a little interesting. Did the challenge all double action because I need the practice. Adjusted the sights after the first 6 rounds (started at 7 yds) but had a great time. Nothing to brag about but I love the little 19 which is fast becoming my favorite. A great end to the year. ended up being 2.625x 2.625". Need to get a set of shooting glasses made up as the bifocals don't work the best. Happy New Year to All!
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Old 01-14-2017, 05:26 PM
Angus46 Angus46 is offline
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Here you go, between the ice we have going on I got out to the range today. Was a ton of fun to push for accuracy. Long time precision rifle shooter, but never did this much with pistols.

My red dot was a tad off, I was shooting left, but did pretty well. About a 2" group minus my 4th shot at 10. Got excited and didn't focus on trigger press and pulled it off. I shot a 5th but know that doesn't count.

Just because I like to win, I tried it with my 686. It's old and love that gun. I think I got you with that gun. The way I measure it, right at 1.605"!!!!

Now I will agree not really in the spirit of your challenge. However, it's a no dash gun, so technically it was a carry gun when it was made

Thanks for the challenge it was fun and think I'll add in a tad more accuracy work during my range times. I will get my red dot a little better zero and I may be able to get all 20 in the X ring
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Old 01-14-2017, 06:01 PM
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Nice shooting Angus. I don't see any problem with shooting the 686 for the challenge, since it's certainly a viable home defense gun. The OP says a carry gun or home defense gun.
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