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  #601  
Old 01-14-2017, 06:43 PM
Angus46 Angus46 is offline
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Originally Posted by shakyshoot View Post
Nice shooting Angus. I don't see any problem with shooting the 686 for the challenge, since it's certainly a viable home defense gun. The OP says a carry gun or home defense gun.
Thanks for the complement, It was fun to do, a lot of mental focus.

Well then looks like I met the challenge and won!

I'm pretty excited about it. I don't shoot that way hardly at all. New stuff for me to practice.
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  #602  
Old 01-14-2017, 11:49 PM
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Nice shooting Angus. I'm not concerned with the actual group size. You kept them all in the center oval

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Now I will agree not really in the spirit of your challenge. However, it's a no dash gun, so technically it was a carry gun when it was made
As long as it's a gun you use for defense and not just a range gun, as long as you shot it double action for every shot and as long as this was the first 20 shots of the day out of that gun, it's in the spirit of the challenge.

Thanks for joining us. It is fun and it is good practice.
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Old 01-15-2017, 10:02 AM
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I would have to do it first thing, because after a few minutes or so my ole hands start to shaking so bad I hardly can hit the target, much less the bulls eye.

Great shootin' by the way. The 686 is a great revolver.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
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  #604  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:18 AM
Angus46 Angus46 is offline
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Was the first 20 rounds with each gun. I shot the 686 first then the M and P. I do carry the M and P occasionally depending on clothes and weather. I wish I could have stopped and adjusted the RMR sight. I just put that back on after getting my slide and barell back. So still a bit off.

No, I don't carry the 686 around town, too big. It's mainly used when I'm in the woods. Hunting and protection from anything I may encounter while I'm out there. In some cases, stuff that is much larger than what you may encounter around town. Which is why I go for a 357 or my old super Blackhawk 44 vs a 9mm, 40 or 45.

Over the years I've ran across a few critters that had me draw my gun, luckily they always run away. Gets your heart pounding when you come up close to a black bear and you have your kids with you. Probably a more realistic threat than criminal activity.

That 686 is a really fun gun to shoot. This one was one of the early 80s models and I love it, I've had my Ruger since I was 15 and has always been my favorite until I got this one a few years back.

I get start getting shaky too! I do it with my bows, rifles everything. Does anyone actually hold steady without the sights all over the place? If so I wish it could figure out how to do that.

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Old 01-15-2017, 02:42 PM
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Does anyone actually hold steady without the sights all over the place? If so I wish it could figure out how to do that.
Actually no. It's called the arc of movement. It's impossible for us to hold the gun perfectly still. The idea is to try to minimize the arc of movement as much as possible. Then to try to press the trigger when the movement is in the center of the target. Not an easy thing.
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:35 PM
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I was sorting through some things in the man cave and found a copy of the Challenge target. It's been since the thread started since I tried it, so I took the target to the range today and gave it a go and surprised myself.
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Old 01-25-2017, 07:11 PM
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Angus46

I bought mine in Feb 1986. Still my go to revolver.
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Old 01-25-2017, 10:48 PM
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I was sorting through some things in the man cave and found a copy of the Challenge target. It's been since the thread started since I tried it, so I took the target to the range today and gave it a go and surprised myself.
Hey, for 5 shots that's pretty good. Now get back out there and do the whole thing!
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Old 01-28-2017, 06:46 PM
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Angus46

I bought mine in Feb 1986. Still my go to revolver.
I bet you have enjoyed shooting that over the years. I've only had mine for about 5 years and for sure it's my go to revolver as well.
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  #610  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:14 PM
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Count?

The left and right most shots broke the line.




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Old 02-04-2017, 11:38 PM
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Count?

The left and right most shots broke the line.
It's good shooting, but doesn't succeed. You clearly have the talent to get this. Try again.
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:14 AM
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Argh! So close. I look forward to trying again.


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Old 02-05-2017, 12:19 AM
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Hmm...I may have to try the challenge with my newest addition. .44mag Super Blackhawk kinda hard to consider it a 'CCW' with a 7.5" barrel though.

Shot it for the first time today. 10rnds at 20yds all inside a coke can.


I need to get my M&P9 back out and make another official entry. It is a fun challenge.
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:19 PM
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Hmm...I may have to try the challenge with my newest addition. .44mag Super Blackhawk kinda hard to consider it a 'CCW' with a 7.5" barrel though.
Years ago I had a Super Blackhawk. I used it in an indoor center-fire pistol competition. Even using .44Special rounds, I had to wear a glove due to the recoil. We had to fire 25 rounds in half an hour. That's a lot of shooting with a gun like that.

Yes, you should try it in this challenge. Why not?
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:28 PM
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Years ago I had a Super Blackhawk. I used it in an indoor center-fire pistol competition. Even using .44Special rounds, I had to wear a glove due to the recoil. We had to fire 25 rounds in half an hour. That's a lot of shooting with a gun like that.

Yes, you should try it in this challenge. Why not?
I put 10 through it yesterday in approx. 10mins. The recoil felt pretty tame to me. 240gr soft point Winchester MVel 1180fps. Not a super hot load. But I compare most guns to my magnum rifles. My .300wby and 7mmRemMag.

I'll definitely give it a try when it gets a bit warmer in a few weeks.
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:34 PM
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I didn't know then what I know now. I'm sure I could have mitigated the recoil with a better grip. Also, I have larger than average hands. To get a comfortable sight picture, I had the bottom of the grip in the palm of my hand. Thus, the sharp edge dug into my palm as the gun was shot. On top of that, I was relatively new to shooting and hadn't built up any callouses or muscle to help with holding a gun.

Today I probably wouldn't have trouble with it.

I'm looking forward to your target. Yeah, maybe not a carry gun, but one of the classics and very accurate.
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Old 02-10-2017, 08:24 PM
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I succeeded with my new (to me) Smith & Wesson Model 19-3 .357. The 20th shot barely snuck in on the left side. Group was just under 1 3/4". Not bad for the 2nd time shooting the gun.

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Old 02-12-2017, 12:09 AM
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You're making us all look bad.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:28 PM
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Even when I'm cheating shakyshoot makes me look bad.

Ruger .357, 5 rounds per distance. I spent too much time on the early shots and got tired and started rushing shots towards the end.
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Old 03-23-2017, 05:47 PM
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I am happy to see there is no time limit on this drill. Our state mandated qualification is a 30 round course with no time limit. The biggest problem I have with students is that they get a bit wound up when shooting in a group and rush their shots. I tell students to move slower than paint dries and they still rush. I sound like a broken record, "Slow Down!, Slow Down!, Slow Down!"

Our mandated course of fire is 10 rounds fired from 5 yards, 7 yards and 10 yards for a total of 30 rounds.

I'll head out to the range tomorrow and try my luck at Rastoff's challenge.
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Old 03-24-2017, 12:02 PM
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I sound like a broken record, "Slow Down!, Slow Down!, Slow Down!"
I see and say the exact same thing at every class. You have time. Why rush it? And they still rack off 4 or 6 rounds in 3 seconds.

What's really interesting is the dichotomy of it all. One group I can't get to slow down. Then there is a second set that I can't get to speed up.

Defensive shooting is a balance of speed and accuracy. If you're not accurate, you don't hit the target; you get killed. If you're not at least a little fast, they shoot you first; you get killed. So, you must be fast enough to get the shot off and accurate enough to put it in the right place.

Some students get so focused on accuracy, you really could get the paint to dry before they get the first shot off.

When shooting a controlled pair, 2 shots in 2 seconds, they don't need to be any closer than a fist to a hand span apart. Closer than that, speed up. Further apart, slow down.
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Old 03-24-2017, 04:37 PM
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Took a friend along with my wife for some shooting recently. Just before we left, I suggested some double taps just to liven things up. We started from the ready position at 5 yards. Wife was accurate but slow, so was I, slow but bullets in the proper place about 3" apart. My friend stepped up and almost before I could say "GO" he had shot twice...... but one shot was below the target and the second was above it. Fast is just... fast, nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 03-24-2017, 08:06 PM
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...I suggested some double taps...
Let's talk terminology. The term "double tap" is ambiguous. Most think it's just blasting away with two shots. Indeed, that is how most do it. As your friend demonstrated, not very useful.

Instead, say controlled pair.

A controlled pair is different. As the name implies, each shot is controlled and deliberate. Each shot includes aiming and its own sight picture. I can shoot a controlled pair very fast, but each shot is aimed. Starting from the ready, I can put two into the thoracic cavity, about 4" apart, from 7 yards, in about 1.4 seconds. If I have time to warm up, I can do it faster. But that's not the point. Control is the point. I regularly demonstrate this in classes and I rarely do it faster than 1.8 seconds. Why? Because as Old Joe said, hits are better than speed. So I demonstrate it at a speed that shows it can be done rather than trying to make it look like something that's hard; it's not.

Now, Joe, if you're putting up 3" pairs, go faster. A fist to a hand span is close enough.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:53 PM
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Even when I'm cheating shakyshoot makes me look bad.
It's no fun when no one takes the bait.

I used a Ruger 77/.357 and the biggest problem was that the scope doesn't focus at close range.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:54 PM
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Even when I'm cheating shakyshoot makes me look bad.

Ruger .357, 5 rounds per distance. I spent too much time on the early shots and got tired and started rushing shots towards the end.
Shakyshot makes everybody look bad. :-) In reality, I am what his forum name implies.
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Old 03-27-2017, 04:17 PM
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I hit the range today and shot in the rain. I took the Glock 42 and shot some Tula 91g FMJ. I couldn't see wasting a lightly used target and I had 80 rounds left, so I shot some timed drills at 5 yards, 10 yards, 15 yards and 25 yards. Everything at 10 yards and closer was fired while on the move.

The 15 rounds fired at 25 yards were not bullseye accurate, but close enough for government work. Speer 90g GDHP is a bit more accurate than Tula, but at $1 a shot I decided to shoot the cheap stuff today.
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:00 AM
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This week I installed an Apex barrel in my 2006 vintage M&P 9. Took it out for test firing today, and these are the first 20 shots through the new barrel.

To my immense dismay, that one miss came at the seven-yard stage. I shot clean at 10. I can't understand what happened.

The barrel must be a piece of junk.

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Whisper
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Old 04-02-2017, 09:19 AM
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This week I installed an Apex barrel in my 2006 vintage M&P 9. Took it out for test firing today, and these are the first 20 shots through the new barrel.

To my immense dismay, that one miss came at the seven-yard stage. I shot clean at 10. I can't understand what happened.

The barrel must be a piece of junk.

Cheers,
Whisper
I agree, the new barrel is trash and should be returned to the seller. :-) Great shooting though. I can shoot almost that good from about 12........... inches.

I need too find out if powder burns on a target make you subject to disqualification.

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Old 04-02-2017, 11:40 AM
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To my immense dismay, that one miss came at the seven-yard stage. I shot clean at 10. I can't understand what happened.
Believe it or not, the 7 yard line is where most shooters drop a round. I think it's just the attempt to do this 20 times more than the distance. We tend to lose focus around shot 14 or 15 and let one go.

Still, very nice shooting.
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Old 04-07-2017, 04:43 PM
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Out of curiosity I tried the challenge with the Governor using Federal 000Buck.
4 @ 9' was pretty tight
6@ 15' had the target looking pretty ratty
6@ 21' & the target was coming apart
The 4 @ 30' was like shooting at a flag in a breeze
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:42 PM
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Well, I decided to try again this weekend, but with my Shield 9. The results are attached.

OK, I know I failed again. But, comparing this week's effort with last week's, I am impressed by the little Shield. The FS 9 I was shooting last week has an Apex barrel and sear and a Dawson Precision fiber optic front sight. The Shield is stock except for its Dawson Precision front sight -- it has the OEM barrel and sear, and notably heavier trigger than the full-size. Yet the Shield doesn't shoot that much worse.

Yeah, yeah, I need more practice. I'm going to keep at it. It annoys me to be so close to a passing score and still to fall short. This shall not stand.

Cheers,
Whisper
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Old 04-09-2017, 07:12 PM
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OK, I know I failed again.
Failed is such an ugly word. You've just found yet another area where you can be better.

I know I can't do as well as you with a Shield. As far as I'm concerned, that's some very good shooting.
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Old 04-09-2017, 08:43 PM
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I'll do the challenge...in the next day or so when I can get to the range.

Will probably do it once with a Detective Special and then again with some sort of Smith J frame.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:12 PM
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HAd a chance to drop by the range today and try out the:

4 at 3 yards'
6 at 5 yards
6 at 7 yards
4 at 10 yards

Enjoyable challenge using some new reloads for my Model 15.Need to adjust the sights a little but still made it into 2 5/8 x 1 3/8" group. I'll get there yet. Thanks Rastoff!!
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:59 AM
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I haven't tried this in a while, so I thought I'd give it another go. I used an M&P40 with an Apex DCAEK and Dawson sights.

20170501_170907 by John, on Flickr
20170501_170957 by John, on Flickr
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:25 PM
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When the weather breaks, I'll get out and do this again, this time with a 642 and GP100.

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Old 05-05-2017, 12:20 PM
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I haven't tried this in a while, so I thought I'd give it another go. I used an M&P40 with an Apex DCAEK and Dawson sights.
Success!! Very good shooting.
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Old 05-12-2017, 08:17 PM
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Glock 19 fired cold per instructions

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Old 05-13-2017, 04:48 AM
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Very nice.

When my groups open up, they generally have a vertical component to them like yours.

The best I could do on this challenge was one flyer on the line at the top edge of the orange.

The 10 yard shots were the most challenging.

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Old 05-13-2017, 09:19 AM
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Very nice.

When my groups open up, they generally have a vertical component to them like yours.

The best I could do on this challenge was one flyer on the line at the top edge of the orange.

The 10 yard shots were the most challenging.

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The high flyer was at 10 yards, and low one was at 7 yards believe it or not.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:16 PM
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The high flyer was at 10 yards, and low one was at 7 yards believe it or not.
Believe it or not, most people struggle more with the 7 yard shots than the 10 yard. It's a weird phenomena, but I think it has to do with the order. I think we get over confident after the 3 and 5 yard shots. Since they go well, we tend not to concentrate as hard as we should on the 7 yard.

I have to admit, I do this now and then and I struggle too.
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:46 PM
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Makes sense Doug.

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Old 05-21-2017, 02:10 PM
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Shot cold; I haven't shot the 32-20 in two months. Mixed bag of factory ammo. Will try it again with a target where only the X ring is orange and with handloads soon.



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Old 05-23-2017, 07:09 PM
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I tried it with my latest acquisition--Smith & Wesson 27-2 .357 magnum. I don't figure to carry this 48 oz N-frame, but it should see some nightstand duty. I thought I hit the line with the 2nd 10 yd shot, but when I got home I realized the 10 ring on the target I grabbed was quite a bit smaller than a 3 x 2 oval. It's close to 2 3/4" x 1 3/4". If you look at it against 2" on the ruler, the one on the left would be well in. So I'm calling it good. At any rate, I'll take a 1.43" 20 shot double action group any day.



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Old 05-24-2017, 01:17 AM
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Will try it again with...handloads soon.
Will you carry the gun with hand loads in it?

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I tried it with my latest acquisition--
Tried? Did you shoot them all double action?

Just stop. You're making us all look bad. We wish we could shoot as well as you.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:14 AM
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Just stop. You're making us all look bad. We wish we could shoot as well as you.
Ain't that the truth. Don't stop though, even though I'll never be able to do that well, I enjoy seeing those targets.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:13 AM
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"Will you carry the gun with hand loads in it?"

Yes; factory stuff is anemic and not particularly suited for defense purposes.

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Old 05-24-2017, 08:52 AM
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Tried? Did you shoot them all double action?
Yes, all DA, and the first 20 shots of the day. The single action trigger on this gun is such a dream, I have to really force myself to shoot DA.
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